"Honest Jim" Cries "scam" !!

[Jim]

Is this OK for me to do Jack? No, obviously not.

So why is it OK for you to print lies about me?  Lies. They are lies.

I do NOT copy profiles from other sites. I did this ONCE when I first started my site. And I openly told you that I did it. I took some profiles from your pathetic list and some from womenrussia.com. I realize now that it was not good to do it, but I didn’t want to start an anti-scam site without any profiles. I was the 3rd anti-scam site on the net and there were not too many scammers way back then. I have NEVER done it since. And I am suspicious of all the new anti-scam sites that obviously do it.

I do not charge any money to place lists on my Gold List. (Can you explain to me the White List?) You once mentioned how I have more agencies on the Gold List now than I did in the past. Well, since you are too stupid or blind to realize why, I will tell you. I have a list of agencies I consider candidates for the Gold List. But I do not immediately add them because I am worried about making a wrong decision about the agencies I place on my lists. I want to make good decisions. So, I wait a long time before adding them. So, after many months or even years, after carefully watching an agency, I will add them. I would like to one day have an agency from every major city in the FSU. So, it will grow as I find good ones to list.

But, Jerk Bagg (excuse ,my typos), people yell for proof when guys make random scam accusations, and you have yet to supply any proof about your lies about me. So, I would say ‘put up or shut up’ but that would be impossible for you. How about ‘put your money where your mouth is’? (That will take a LOT of money).

The burden of proof lies on YOU. Prove any of your accusations against me and I will take both my sites off the net and disappear forever. If you can’t, all I ask is for you to STOP MAKING LIES ABOUT ME AND POSTING THEM RANDOMLY ON FORUMS.

I will even help you. I have 24 agencies on my Gold List. Contact them and ask them. Bribe them, con them, sweet-talk them. ANYTHING. Get proof of your accusations or SHUT…UP.

 

[Stirlitz]

I am wondering how long it will take this post to disappear.

If it does not disappear by the time I get up tomorrow (well, I should be in bed now), next morning I will have to run around the room looking for my eyes which would sure drop to the floor!

LOL

[Michelangelo]

Dear Jim,

I have no idea who you are.

Please introduce yourself before making angry posts.

And please refrain from typing in ALL CAPS. It is the same as shouting, and is considered rude.

[Admin]

I am wondering how long it will take this post to disappear.

If it does not disappear by the time I get up tomorrow (well, I should be in bed now), next morning I will have to run around the room looking for my eyes which would sure drop to the floor!

LOL

Why would you think the post would be removed??

- Dan

[Admin]

Jim,

I see that you posted the same thing here as you posted at RWG.

I have a strong suggestion - do a Google search on the terms "business disparagement claim".

Because I do not wish for RWD to become embroiled in such a claim, I am going to put your account into Moderation status - which means that each and every post will require a member of the Moderator squad to review and approve it before it appears on the live board.

- Dan

Is this OK for me to do Jack? No, obviously not.

So why is it OK for you to print lies about me?  Lies. They are lies.

I do NOT copy profiles from other sites. I did this ONCE when I first started my site. And I openly told you that I did it. I took some profiles from your pathetic list and some from womenrussia.com. I realize now that it was not good to do it, but I didn’t want to start an anti-scam site without any profiles. I was the 3rd anti-scam site on the net and there were not too many scammers way back then. I have NEVER done it since. And I am suspicious of all the new anti-scam sites that obviously do it.

I do not charge any money to place lists on my Gold List. (Can you explain to me the White List?) You once mentioned how I have more agencies on the Gold List now than I did in the past. Well, since you are too stupid or blind to realize why, I will tell you. I have a list of agencies I consider candidates for the Gold List. But I do not immediately add them because I am worried about making a wrong decision about the agencies I place on my lists. I want to make good decisions. So, I wait a long time before adding them. So, after many months or even years, after carefully watching an agency, I will add them. I would like to one day have an agency from every major city in the FSU. So, it will grow as I find good ones to list.

But, Jerk Bagg (excuse ,my typos), people yell for proof when guys make random scam accusations, and you have yet to supply any proof about your lies about me. So, I would say ‘put up or shut up’ but that would be impossible for you. How about ‘put your money where your mouth is’? (That will take a LOT of money).

The burden of proof lies on YOU. Prove any of your accusations against me and I will take both my sites off the net and disappear forever. If you can’t, all I ask is for you to STOP MAKING LIES ABOUT ME AND POSTING THEM RANDOMLY ON FORUMS.

I will even help you. I have 24 agencies on my Gold List. Contact them and ask them. Bribe them, con them, sweet-talk them. ANYTHING. Get proof of your accusations or SHUT…UP.

[Stirlitz]

I am surprised. It is still here! I cannot believe my eyes. Why did I think it would be removed? Well I do not want to elaborate, but even at RWG they removed it very quickly. (They put it back after a time though but warned the topic was under close watch and would be deleted if there is flaming in it).

Something just doesn’t add up, if it is true, well only for the better. Hopefully. (Never mind my thinking aloud).

But what surprises me even more is that the other party is not saying anything.

[andrewfi]

Dan, may I ask a question in respect of the OP.

Given that the poster has already agreed that he has in the past done all the things that others have suggested and that the poster has not offered any information in respect of FirstDream and given that you have told us that you have seen the post elsewhere (and thus almost certainly the subsequent posts) by allowing the post to stand are you not making yourself a part of any wrongdoing?

Would it not be prudent to remove the post and thread and reinstate them when the original poster is able to justify in some manner his claim that the company trading as First Dream is a scam?

I mean, from a personal point of view it seems a whole bunch of fun watching a bloke who admits to IP theft and other actions which, whilst not necesssarily illegal certainly cast a shadow of doubt over the ethical compass of his business, trying to make baseless claims against another business, but it can get expensive for the bystanders who do nothing.

[RacerX]

Andrew, let me ask a question of you.

If indeed Jim makes some sort of living from his website, wouldn't your statement: "cast a shadow of doubt over the ethical compass of his business" subject you to the same potential legal counteraction?

[Admin]

Andrew,

I don't think there is any liability to RWD. Neither Jack nor Jim have asked me to do anything regarding the posts.

The ToS of the board, as well as numerous court decisions, holds that all posts to a discussion board are the responsibility of the person posting - so Jim is the person accountable for making the initiating post. My reason for not wanting to become embroiled in a legal claim is I don't want to have to spend the time to respond to the information requests, but I do not believe there is any liability to RWD for the post that Jim put up.

My opinion - and it is NOT a legal opinion as I am not a lawyer - is that Jim has done something pretty dumb. He intentionally made a post which is disparaging of Jack's company - and that is perfect fodder for Jack and his attorney to file a business disparagement claim. I have no idea if Jack is considering that or not, but it seems to me he has a VERY strong case if he chooses to pursue it.

I am not sure why Jim has not asked me to delete the post. It strikes me as pure liability for him.

Jack has not asked either - which may be that he would just as soon see it stay since it provides him foundation for a claim.

Since neither have asked - the posts remain - but RWD did not post them and has no liability in the "wrongdoing" of any posts.

Please note, I am not an attorney and none of my post should be relied upon as legal advice - it is simply a layperson's opinion.

- Dan

Dan, may I ask a question in respect of the OP.

Given that the poster has already agreed that he has in the past done all the things that others have suggested and that the poster has not offered any information in respect of FirstDream and given that you have told us that you have seen the post elsewhere (and thus almost certainly the subsequent posts) by allowing the post to stand are you not making yourself a part of any wrongdoing?

Would it not be prudent to remove the post and thread and reinstate them when the original poster is able to justify in some manner his claim that the company trading as First Dream is a scam?

I mean, from a personal point of view it seems a whole bunch of fun watching a bloke who admits to IP theft and other actions which, whilst not necesssarily illegal certainly cast a shadow of doubt over the ethical compass of his business, trying to make baseless claims against another business, but it can get expensive for the bystanders who do nothing.

[Bruno]

Dear Jim,

I have no idea who you are.

Please introduce yourself before making angry posts.

And please refrain from typing in ALL CAPS. It is the same as shouting, and is considered rude.

Michael,

Are you new here ? If you have read several of the post from Jack ( not these with sexy picture ), you will know that it is not the first time that Jack attack the site of Jim...

It seem that Jim have find some old post from Jack at http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1485.msg30973#msg30973 ... he have first reply on these old topic and only after, he have post these new topic...

In French, we say : "Qui sème le vent, récolte la tempête" 

Why Jack will sue Jim since he was the first to open fire here !

Ok, Jim have take some scam profile from other scam site when he have start 6 year ago... not a good practice but used by almost everybody... when a site start, he seek a basic content somewhere else... article, profile, etc ... For my own previous marriage site, i have buy a few contact information of lady ( 1000 e-mail address for only 50$  ) and ask them if they wish be on my site. In the case of Jim site, it is a little more difficult : i don't see him ask scammer if they wish be listed  ... but this was the start, now we are 6 year after... the site is running from itself and people submit scam to the site...

About the "Jack fact" that Jim ask money to agency for be listed in the Gold list, i know that for my case, it was not true. Jim have propose to list me in his Gold list in 2004, at the begin of my site, when i have submit my only one passport scam. I have simply refuse but he was ready to make it for free, no fee asked.

YES, all i never fully clean in these international dating world... but who is fully perfect lauch the first rock !

[andrewfi]

Andrew, let me ask a question of you.

If indeed Jim makes some sort of living from his website, wouldn't your statement: "cast a shadow of doubt over the ethical compass of his business" subject you to the same potential legal counteraction?

Nope, for three reasons, me not being a lawyer an'all.
1) Jim has already, and publically, agreed that he has done the things that others have suggested of him and so my comments are based upon agreed fact.

2) Whilst my comments are based upon agreed fact they are an opinion. I am not making a definitive statement that can be taken in only one way. Some might argue that the compass was pointed in a direction that suited them but few would be likely to conclude that the statement 'First Dream Sucks!!!' was positive statement that would encourage them to trade with Jack Bragg!

3) I can cheerfully say to people 'ya boo sucks, come and get me!'

[Admin]

I am surprised. It is still here! I cannot believe my eyes. Why did I think it would be removed? Well I do not want to elaborate, but even at RWG they removed it very quickly. (They put it back after a time though but warned the topic was under close watch and would be deleted if there is flaming in it).

Something just doesn’t add up, if it is true, well only for the better. Hopefully. (Never mind my thinking aloud).

But what surprises me even more is that the other party is not saying anything.

Igor,

Why do you "not want to elaborate"?

- Dan

[Jack]

Sorry guys, been real tied up for a few days and did not realize Honest Jim had posted here. I was sent an e-mail from some of the members at rwg and was told that Honest Jim had made this same post over there, and I replied back to him over there. It's been over 48 hours now since I have asked Honest Jim to back-up his claims that First Dream is a scam and have not heard back from Honest Jim.

Now before I reply here to Honest Jim's claim I would like to welcome back Igor.

Hello Igor!

After you wrote the following,....

OK. Something is wrong with this board. Good bye to all.
I did not really want to post here again,
First, what is wrong with this board is Dan.
Next, I don't like posting along with people like Jack

.....and due to the fact that I am still posting here, Dan is still here, I am somewhat surprised to see you return. But I will give you credit for realizing that the RWD is the finest Russian discussion board in the world and that you would want to be part of a winner.

Two bit's of advice Igor. I would not be telling these guys (their a more educated bunch here) about your charge of $20 an hour interpreting fee. You don't have David1963 pushing your services and outrageous fee here as he does on the other board. We are still able to find top quality interpreters in Odessa, in Simferopol and Sevastopol for $7 an hour.

And the second bit of advice I would suggest to you is that you apologize to Dan for telling many people that I was a part owner of RWD. For you to spread this outrageous out right lie was a great dis-service to Dan and the hard work he has put into what is today the finest Russian discussion board in the world. I hope you are man enough and have the balls to apologize to Dan for you spreading this lie for your own selfish purpose.

And like Dan, I am also curious as to why you thought this thread would have been deleted. You dealing with a full deck there Igor?

Now, onto good ole Honest Jim.

Below is almost the same response I sent Honest Jim on another site.

Here we have an anti-scam site that is claiming a marriage agency is a scam. Well, from such a proclaimed authority on the subject of scam, we would have to believe, or put some real consideration into such a statement from the owner of an anti-scam site being correct, right?

And on Honest Jim's anti-scam site, which I am beginning to believe is a scam site in itself, Honest Jim has written this,.."Since nobody is going to regulate all the agencies out there, I decided to make myself the appointed standard-maker. I work independently of any agency and I am completely unbiased."    Yea, sure, completely un-biased until your past unethical practices are mentioned by me!!

So this anti-scam site has proclaimed that First Dream is a scam. Would it be asking to much to ask the anti-scam owner for names, times, incidences surrounding the scam? When an anti-scam agency proclaims a marriage agency as a scam I would think he would have at least one, and hopefully two verifiable and independent reports of scam before he was to blacklist an agency or call an agency a scam, right, ...well most anti-scam agencies but were talking about Honest Jim's agency. Knowing Honest Jim like I do I would be willing to bet he does not have a single scam report from any current or former client, doesn't matter to Jim, in fact it doesn't matter to Jim if he has good women listed as scammers (Damn I bet he wishes some of those other anti-scam sites would check these women out before he takes their profiles). Oh I am sure Honest Jim can find something negative said about me from individuals like camergurl who have never used my services, or from one individual who used to use and praise my service and now talks bad about me and those services due to a disagreement and difference of opinion as to what constitutes a woman of low morals, or from individuals who are offended because I will not work with them for whatever reason (usually 60 year olds wanting a 20 year old). But Honest Jim cannot provide the information or proof from a single current or former client who says he was scammed or cheated by First Dream. Ten years in business, over 2000 clients, man don't you know Honest Jim wishes he could find some complaints of scam.

Calling a marriage agency a scam agency with no complaints, no proof, is this the type of anti-scam agency one wants to believe in? Of course not, but it is typical Honest Jim. If he can't find any complaints, he'll just say it or make one up.

Lies about Jim? Ok, let's examine.

Jim says "I do not copy profiles from other sites". Well, maybe, and I say maybe giving you the benefit of the doubt, you have stopped stealing photos and profiles from other sites, but he sure did at one time, as he started out. As he admits he did not want to start an anti-scam site with NO profiles, so what did he do, he stole the photos, profiles from the only two existing anti-scam links at the time. He wanted to be the third anti-scam site in the world but he had no profiles, so he stole them, in one case he took copyrighted material.

And now he says he is suspicious of all the new anti-scam sites who are obviously doing what he did.

After I confronted Honest Jim and told him I knew he had taken photos and profiles, and after he admitted such, he says it was a mistake and he would never do it again.

He just wanted to use the photos and profiles and hard work from the two existing anti-scam links at the time to help give him instant credibility. One day there is no Honest Jim's Agencyscam site and the next day, whoaaaaa, look at this new anti-scam site with ALL these photos of scammers!! Did Honest Jim tell everyone he had just taken all these photos from two competing sites? The answer is no, Honest Jim did not. Honest Jim wanted it to appear that he had worked long and hard to establish this base of scammers and that he had many men sending him this information. Well this was simply just not true.

Have you ever seen a leopard change it's spot's? They don't. If Honest Jim has the ethics, or un-ethics, to take and use other people's hardwork and efforts once, he can and will do it again. And how about the pot calling the kettle black, on Honest Jim's site today he has written this,...."Agency owners - if any other agency has ever stolen photos off your site, please tell me about it."   Well at least one thing about anti-scam agencies stealing photos/profiles from other agencies, Honest Jim is an expert in this field.

More Lies? "I do not charge any money to place agencies on my Gold List"

Hey Honest Jim, I'm not talking about today! I have seen as you have been caught and confronted over the years how you have made changes. I am not saying you take money today Honest Jim, although I suspect you are probably charging a pretty penny to the sites who have banner ads on your scam site. I am saying with 100% no doubt that when you first started YOU DID charge money for agencies to be on your recommend list. Deny that Honest Jim! Deny that you at one time took, or requested $20 a month to be one of your recommended agencies!

And now First Dream is a scam agency, not because it scams clients, oh no, you can't go that route, First Dream is a scam agency because it is revealing your shady past and has always told individuals, agencies, discussion boards as to your ethics and practices.

Jim I can prove that at one time you asked for $20 to be listed as one of your recommended agencies. I can prove that sometime later you changed this procedure and then only accepted "donations" and those donating were on your recommended agency list. I can prove that recently you have changed your $20 a month fee and donation fee to an advertising/banner fee. If you want to advertise on my site you can buy a banner ad. And I wonder how many of the agencies who advertise, who take out a banner ad, are one of your recommended agencies. Can you tell us that now Honest Jim? How many of the sites who have a banner ad are on one of your (gold, white, silver) preferred agency list's?

Honest Jim I can prove at one time you wrote "Yes Jack, I know all about your agency. I have even recommended your agency before in the past. I would be honored to add you to my list of recommended agencies". Tell me, tell us, if that is a lie Honest Jim? You were floored when you saw my reaction. What? Pay you to tell people I am a good and honest agency!

And Jim, YOU worry about rushing to decisions before you decide who is a good agency or not? HA! I told you TWO YEARS ago this was a scam agency Honest Jim! Even though you were told this was one of the most efficient scam operations working out of Lugansk, 2 Oceans of Love, made your recommended list for a what, two-three years? And they also paid you a fee, or donated (after you changed policies) to your agency every month as well. You want to preach the high and mighty as to how good thou are but yet you lead so many good men to be scammed and slaughtered by one of the most efficient scam operations coming out of Lugansk. But you knew this agency, they were one you knew to be honest and ethical and as such you recommended them. The $20 a month, the monthly donations had nothing to do with you referring them, right? Oh hogwash, of course it did.

And only recently when you HAD to acknowledge that 2 Oceans of Love was scamming, now you say, well yes, one of their owners was bad BUT she has been replaced and now they have a new owner, or the part owner is now the sole owner, now they are legit or some micky-mouse excuse to try to cover your blunder of highly recommending a notorious scam operation.

When I tried to confront you about good and honorable women you have listed on your website as scammers and asked you how you came to that conclusion you told me it was none of my fcuking business and to NOT write you again, you would not respond to my e-mails.

So Honest Jim is judge and jury. He decides if a lady is a scammer and he does not have to explain to anyone how he came to that conclusion. If Honest Jim steal's a photo or profile from another site he sure hopes the information was good to be listed with the other anti-scam site. And if anyone dares ask him he how he knows this woman is a scammer he simply tell's them it's none of there fcuking business or calls them a scam agency.

If you would take my e-mail Honest Jim I would love to tell you of some good and sincere ladies you have on your site who you have classified as a scammer. Ladies I personally know Honest Jim! If you were in America I can assure you that you would have already been sued for libel Honest Jim. And since Jim has made this statement that I am a scam agency, and he can offer no proof of such claim, my attorney and I are now talking with Russian authorities as to what we can do about this obvious scum bag. One of the many women he has falsely accused of being a scammer has never had an e-mail address, has no interest in marriage to a foreign man, has never been listed with any marriage agency, ever. But yet you have her listed as a scammer. And you don't have to tell anyone how you came to that conclusion.

What you have Honest Jim is a girlfriend of Julia Petrova, surely you know who Julia Petrova is Honest Jim, if not go to my site, oopps, forgot, you have already done that, took her photos from my site, so you have some information on Julia Petrova. Well Honest Jim, Julia Petrova's best friend is/was a woman by the name of Oksana Parneshvilli. Being the expert in scam that you are I am sure you already knew this. Oksana Parneshvilli is now married and living in the states but before she got married, during her scamming days, she took some photos of another friend of her's, a lady by the name of Elina, and used these photos to scam men. Elina is a quite attractive lady with a very nice body. Elina had no idea that her supposive friend Oksana was using her photos to scam.

Elina, Anna, Lilia, are three wonderful women who are devastated that Honest Jim has posted their photos listed as a scammer. Good women who are embarrassed, ashamed that their photos are on this man's website of scammers.

Now Honest Jim as you do not have to explain to anyone as to how you go about deciding if any woman you add to your site is a scammer or not then of course you can claim any woman is a scammer. What I have done in hopes of never falsely identifying a good woman as a scammer is asking for and receiving two verifiable and independent reports from men. If you were to do the same maybe you would not be falsely accusing good women as scammers. Or at least Honest Jim make sure the other sites you steal photos and information from are doing their homework.

Your whole operation stinks Honest Jim. From day one when you started out with unethical tactics up to today.

[Stirlitz]

Why would you think the post would be removed??

It was promptly removed from RWG where J used to be persona non grata by David1963. It was brought back by other moderators though.

Why do you "not want to elaborate"?

Because I prefer to watch the show rather than take part in it. It is not the purpose of my being there.

That is also why I completely ignore Jerk Bragg (sorry if I spell his name incorrectly; I have also seen it spelled Jack so I am not sure which one is right — I do not have time to read the entire board to figure out the right spelling, although I think I know by insight). Whatever he tries to get me, this time I DO NOT GIVE A DAMN. People who try to promote themselves at the expense of others are not worth even thinking of.

But I am enjoying the show nevertheless. Glad to see it was not deleted. It is especially interesting to follow both threads: here and at RWGuide.com (where J is back after being banned for years). Lots of food for thought.

However, the change of the title looks fishy.

[DonAz]

First off let me say that I am partly responsible for Igor returning to RWD.  IMO  Igor offers a valuable service to guys involved in this adventure and he should be welcome addition to any board.

I have nothing against Jack in fact I like him. I’ve liked him ever since I read his thread about letting his wife go. I remember thinking that he has way more balls then I do. So I am a neutral party in this discussion.

So in the interest of neutrality and in the interest of a couple of guys that I happen to like  I’ll offer views on opposing business  and how I think they should react to each other, along with my ideas on how I would select any  services  in business and  in the adventure of pursuing the possibility  of finding a mate in the FSU

In my business I would never knock my competition I only offer my credentials, experience and track record PERIOD.  I deal mostly with well heeled and savvy self made business people. They like me do not respect mudslinging at others in order to garner additional business. It is counter productive and does not give a potential client the necessary information for them to make any form of intelligent decision. It is also a sign of weakness and no one respects it. I think we can all agree that it is self serving rant also.


I think most business people will agree with me that that when it comes to making certain decisions we will consider experience and expertise over cost. In my business if I need a attorney, accountant or engineer I do not shop price I shop for the best I can find and one who gives me the best service and who does not blow smoke up my tail. Only results matter not cost!

IMO that all holds true, in the search for FSUW. We all know that  this is VERY  expensive venture to embark and not for those light in the pocketbook. So cost of certain services should not be considered over value. If I were planning to go to Odessa and needed on the ground services I would want the best I could find, services that would limit any inconvenience so I would be able to maximize my time  and energies while  in country. I would want references about the individual before I would put my trust in him and of course I would want to develop an understand with him. That can only be done IMO by presenting my expectations and get HONEST  feedback. I would expect them to shoot whole in my ideas that were not realistic or would not work. I would not be looking for someone to just kiss my ass. From everything I read, know, and have heard about Igor IMO he fits the bill and he is who I would use in his area of  Ukraine. I personally don’t care if he is more expensive in fact I think it speaks of his qualifications


Those who visit the board can only develop an idea from those in the business IF  they will present to the members who they are, what they offer and insight to their various specialties.

I think they should all follow the example of Kevin Hayes. I do not know Kevin, I have never communicated with him in anyway , and I do not  have any interest in his business
 ( disclaimer) . However I have read his posts on this and several other message boards over the years. Mostly on RWL, where I am also a member.  He offers information freely, he is helpful and offers links to his competition that he knows to be honest. Dam fine business model if you ask me.


I hope others in the business would  follow his lead so the needs of  those going down this road can be met to their satisfaction without diluting the process without a bunch of  noise from competing businesses aimed at one another.

Well those are my thoughts.

DonAz

[Admin]

A few observations:

First - Don, thanks for inviting Igor (Stirlitz) to return to RWD. Though he has had a few harsh words for me and RWD in the past, I consider that largely the impetuousness of youth and something he will grow out of someday (I hope). I also agree with you about the business model and the notion that it works to undermine BOTH parties who choose to engage in a slur campaign (more on this later).

Next, Igor - while you *say* you do not want to become engaged in the controversy, your messages are FULL of contempt which is obvious to the most casual observer. Your comments, then, come off as disingenuous and you hurt yourself (IMO) because that is a characteristic not found in someone who is trustworthy. If you truly wish to remain impartial, then I suggest you do just that - which means not making the innuendo in your commentary.

Finally - as I look back over the years of participating on these boards, the wars which erupt between business owners is something which occurs all too often. The wars do a disservice to the board, and to the warring parties themselves. I don't have the answer - but I do know it gets damn frustrating after a time policing this shiite.

- Dan

[jb]

Dan,

Agreed, wars between business owners never gain what the protagonists wish for.  A litany of "My agency is better than your agency" will always result in a good for nothing flame fest.

WRT Jack Bragg and First Dream; I have often disagreed with Jack on issues, we've had some real knock-down-drag-outs.  That's the nature of discussion boards.  Jack has a strong personality and a firm belief in what he's doing.  I should point out that our off-board communications, that part which no one here ever sees, are for the most part, quite cordial and mutually respectful.   

I usually stay far away from agency discussions, however, in this case I feel compelled to come to Jack's defense.  Everything I've ever read about Jack, there have been many personal testaments written on these several boards over time by men who have actually used Jack's services and every one of these many comments have been in Jack's good favor.  To my knowledge no one has ever said, or even suggested, that Jack was in the least bit dishonest with his customers.

I suspect the bad blood between Igor and Jack stems from the fact that Jack is a bit over-protective of his clients, Igor charges a higher price for his services than Jack feels is warranted.   I understand Jack's position in this.  Like me, he doesn't mind someone making a decent living while plying his craft, but I sure don't like the idea of someone making his entire months budget working for me for only 4 or 5 days.  If I were in the market for an interperter services, I'd expect that person would have more than one client per month to spread the *nut* out a bit.

Exactly why Jim decided to attack First Dream here is not clear to me, it seemed to be a bolt from the blue.  I always have to ask, "what's the agenda here?", what purpose does this serve?  Are the members here enlightened and forewarned of some impending disaster if they contemplate using First Dream?  I don't think so.  It looked for all intents and purposes like a smear job from the outset.

I wonder why....

[Michelangelo]

In my view, "Jim" just shot his own foot with that big gun of his. 

When I read such hatefull and contemptful words, I run from the guy who uses them. 

I think around 1300 guys here at RWD will tend to look elsewhere when they need help in their searches.

Even an unknown is better that the known whom one knows is BAD.

[Stirlitz]

Hello Dan,

Thank you for complimenthing my age. After all, I am only 33 now, nearly a child. I also believe that early thirties is youth. We did have some difference of opinion and you apologized to me once, so now it is my turn. I am sorry for the harsh words. Let’s start over and forget the past.

As for contempt, I do not believe in diplomacy and prefer to call a spade a spade. I am not sure which of my messages you are referring to; I believe that you mean the one in which I explained that I ignore J., because in the others I only suggested that this thread might be removed soon and never mentioned J. Whether you put the word message in the plural by mistake or for some reason is not important, but it is a mistake. It was only one message and it was written basically in response to what he had written at/about me. And from that message of his I can derive nothing but contempt to him and I do not see why I should try to conceal it. I am sorry but that is me. If someone says something disgusting or idiotic do you think you should sound as if you respect them trying hard not to manifest your contempt? That would made sense if you were a Russian spy in Nazi Germany but the war is over. If that post of J. made you respect him — well, then we have a big difference of opinion but unlike you I am not going to start preaching about the shortcomings of associating with people who engage in dishonest tactics, etc — this is your choice and no need to comment that.

Also, you comment on my message but not J, who is actually in question. Why me? Am I more important in this thread? However, while my message may be ‘full of contempt’, nothing is wrong with his. Either you are not impartial either, or you cannot see how he is jumping out of his pants trying to thrust his opinion on everybody how much they should pay an interpreter and that I charge too much, etc. This ridiculous rant is boring. If you believe that this is a normal business practice, it is a subject for a separate discussion. As far as I know from my US friends this is the last they would do in business.

So, whatever feelings/attitude I have for J, if any, I am not going to develop this issue as I am not in war with anyone. I am just a member who I think has the right to quip at times without instantly becoming a warring party. When I said I am not taking part in this quarrel, I did not say I was going to be impartial, especially when I am attacked. I am not a judge or jury here, I am eligible to my opinion. I despise unscrupulous jerks and respect people of honor and integrity.

As for bad blood mentioned here, the answers and explanations are all in this thread:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=66.90

[David1963]

Two bit's of advice Igor. I would not be telling these guys (their a more educated bunch here) about your charge of $20 an hour interpreting fee. You don't have David1963 pushing your services and outrageous fee here as he does on the other board. We are still able to find top quality interpreters in Odessa, in Simferopol and Sevastopol for $7 an hour. 

As a note here, I do not push Igors services.  When someone asks a question about Odessa and I don't see Sterlitz respond I post that the person should send him a PM because I know Igor doesn't usually have the time to read all the posts.  I mention him because I have used him and he lives there.  I do not promote him.

I also recomend Khersongirls when people ask about an agency to use because I met my wife through them and would recomend them to any one.  I do not promote them.

[David1963]

I have nothing against Jack in fact I like him. I’ve liked him ever since I read his thread about letting his wife go. I remember thinking that he has way more balls then I do. So I am a neutral party in this discussion. 

I read that post also and came away from that with a different opinion.  That he convinced a young lady that he was willing to possibly have a child with her then after 5 years told her no and she decided to leave.  I don't think many men over 50 really are on the fence about having a child, but everyone can read a post and come away with their own and different opinions.
 

[Son of Clyde]

Stirlitz, I remember when you were 31 but looked 25. 

Maybe you have good genes.

I thought at first Honest Jim was a used car salesman.

[Jet]

I've been watching this unfold and wasn't going to comment, but what the heII 
From what's been written, I have to say that Jack's post is pretty much game, set, & match. Superflous ramblings aside, he's addressed the issue, and allowed us to understand the core concern. Jim's site has profiled at least three 'decent' women as scammers, which is indeed problematic. Past fees for 'gold status' don't really concern me unless there was a CLEAR opposing definition posted at his site at the time he was collecting the fees. To be honest, I'd just naturally assume a fee was paid unless specificly instructed otherwise. It's the nature of business. Just to back up what jb mentioned earlier, I've been around a while and while some people may not like how he handles himself on the boards (make no mistake, I'm usually one of them), I've never heard a single customer complaint regarding his business practices.

Now, a note to Jim,
I guess I'm the only one who understood the original topic heading for what it was a "lost leader", (something to get people in the door so they'll buy what you're really selling). Evidenced by the fact that the opening line of your post refutes the accusation in the title (damn, so much for the law suit  ). But, I will tell you this, the stolen profiles are going to haunt you for a long, long time. Even if you've appologized, even if you promised it would never happen again, it's done and can't be undone.


On the topic of "the" divorce...
It was a nice story, fact is, it was likely far more complex and the only two people who know the whole story are Jack and his wife. Leave it be, most all of you know how much divorce sux in the best of circumstances, it's none of our damn business anyhow.

[DonAz]

 I don't think many men over 50 really are on the fence about having a child,

Here's one

[KenC]

I don't think many men over 50 really are on the fence about having a child
 

Count me as the second one to come forward, guilty as charged.

I think that Jack Bragg did a great service to this forum by coming forward to share his very personal issues with us.  He brought up a potential problem (having children later in life) that is something men should take into consideration while pursuing a younger woman. I personally know that this was a heart wrenching decision for the couple in question and for anyone to throw criticisms at them, is, well, pretty damn classless.
KenC