Greetings to RWD from Kyiv!

[Boethius]

Being on the ground here, I get the impression that the locals speak and write in Ukrainian and or Russian. They can certainly write Kiev how they like in the local language. I'm writing in English and I choose to write K-I-E-V. It is a petty nationalism indeed that focuses how references are made in n other languages.

Kyiv is the Ukrainian transliteration.  Kiev is a Russian tranliteration.  About a decade ago, the Ukrainian government officially requested the transliteration be Kyiv, just as decades previously, the Chinese government asked for the transliteration of Peking to be Beijing, and some time ago, the Indian government asked that the transliteration of Bombay be Mumbai and Calcutta Kolkata. 


In any official correspondence from the Ukrainian government, Kyiv will be used.  Kiev is archaic.

[Bounder]

JayH

My smily icon was there to portray to Bounder a measure of humour ..

Even if he WAS ''an anti-Ukrainian pro Russian apologist  '' I wish him good luck in his search.

Do we need to politicise trip reports ? 

If this is going to be the result, I ask the mods to move my comments about Kyiv v Kiev to the blalbla sin bin.. Sorry, Bounder

Haha, that's quite alright Moby. I expect nothing less of Jay. In fact, I'm impressed that he restrained himself for so long.

Well, on the whole Kiev v Kyiv thing, I'm not quite sure what to say. Ukrainians are free to spell it any way they wish in the Ukrainian language, but I still think they have no standing when it comes to determining how things are spelt in the English language.

So much concern with something so trivial as spelling of names in a foreign language betrays a self-consciousness and lack of confidence. I don't see Canadians, Americans, or Brits getting their knickers in a knot at how their own place names are butchered in other languages through pronounciation and "mis"-spelling. The fixation of Ukrainian nationalists with such petty things is really a little tedious. Quite frankly, Ukraine has bigger fish to fry and Ukrainian nationalists would do well to turn their energies to those things.

The spelling "Kyiv" in English is really quite ludicrous as it bears no reflection to how English native speakers actually pronounce the name of the Ukrainian capital. "Kiev" on the other hand does. A spelling doesn't simply become archaic simply because Ukrainian nationalists wish it were so and States acquiesce to a spelling change for political reasons    At the end of the day, I really don't care if people want to write "Kyiv", they're free to do so. But I won't correct someone for spelling it the other way and not will I stop because it's now PC to write Kyiv. Just my opinion, sorry if you don't like it.

JayH - as to being "pro-Russian", there is almost nobody participating at RWD who would fit that description, but there sure is plenty of anti-Russian sentiment. Surely this board is big enough for a few dissenting voices?

As to anti-Ukrainian, well, I'm here in Kiev and so far everyone I have met is kind, helpful, and lovely, and I like them a lot. If that's anti-Ukrainian, ok. And no, criticizing the corrupt and ineffectual Ukrainian government does NOT make one anti-Ukrainian.

[Bounder]

Love that Opera House. Been there two times in November. Snow? Watch them not shovel it for a friggin week.

Wallm - it snowed yesterday evening and overnight. It's now just past 4 am and there's an army of salt trucks and snow clearers out there. So you don't have to worry about that when you visit here soon. As JayH said somewhere else, you likely experience a heavy snow prior to the official winter season. They seem well-prepared now.

[Bounder]

If you like pizza, my favorite is very close to you, il Molino, right across from Golden Gate ( opposite side from metro entrance)!!!

Thanks for the recommendation! I'm always up for a good pie, so I went to give this place a try yesterday. Absolutely delicious!  My pizza came with dabs of hot mustard on it and I conclude that mustard doesn't really belong on pizzas, but it sure did clear the sinuses nicely! 

Another place that I'm a really big fan of is Puzata Hata, a chain of places all over the city serving up homemade Ukrainian dishes. The food is really excellent (this is comfort food to me) and I have been literally feasting for $4 or less. I do sometimes wonder how they actually make money.... Anyway, I'd recommend Puzata Hata to anyone!

[wallm]

I highly recommend Shoti, Mechnykova St, 9. Terrific Georgian food. Loved the lamb shoulder there. Will be eating there again in 10 days.

[LAman]

Another place that I'm a really big fan of is Puzata Hata, a chain of places all over the city serving up homemade Ukrainian dishes. The food is really excellent (this is comfort food to me) and I have been literally feasting for $4 or less. I do sometimes wonder how they actually make money.... Anyway, I'd recommend Puzata Hata to anyone!

 

Never ate there but there is one on the backside of the Kiev Train Station (across from KFC). It is also across the street from where Skybus arrives/departs. Hours 6am-11pm. Convenient if someone is hungry and around the train station.

[msmob]

Well, on the whole Kiev v Kyiv thing, I'm not quite sure what to say. Ukrainians are free to spell it any way they wish in the Ukrainian language, but I still think they have no standing when it comes to determining how things are spelt in the English language.

I promise not to side-track your TR after this - but Boethius' response shows it is neither trivial - nor uncommon - for us to adopt the name the Country requests

Please believe me.. Kyiv - is how it sounds in Ukrainian .. I can make myself understood in Russian and I hear the difference

OK.. I'm back in my box ..

[Bounder]

I promise not to side-track your TR after this - but Boethius' response shows it is neither trivial - nor uncommon - for us to adopt the name the Country requests

Please believe me.. Kyiv - is how it sounds in Ukrainian .. I can make myself understood in Russian and I hear the difference

OK.. I'm back in my box ..

But we're not talking about Ukrainian, we're talking about English. Of course in Ukrainian it is spelled and pronounced differently. 

[msmob]

I promised - read Boethius' post

[Bounder]

Never ate there but there is one on the backside of the Kiev Train Station (across from KFC). It is also across the street from where Skybus arrives/departs. Hours 6am-11pm. Convenient if someone is hungry and around the train station.

The one by the train station was my first taste when I was here about two years ago. And the food is much more wholesome than KFC! . There's also one by Bessarabski market, another on Kreshchatyk, and one in the Globus underground mall on Independence Square, as well as some other locations that I haven't visited. 

[Kunstkammer]

But we're not talking about Ukrainian, we're talking about English. Of course in Ukrainian it is spelled and pronounced differently. 

Demanding others speak and spell things a certain way really hasn't worked out well for Ukraine in the long run. Just sayin'

[2tallbill]

Looks like the trip report is going off the rails because of side discussions.

Is this going to be another T/R where ear hair grooming takes over the
thread and the report ends?

[alex330]

Globus underground mall on Independence Square,

The name escapes me but there was a great ethnic Ukrainian restaurant across the street from the square in the basement of a building if you have the chance. One side was sushi, the other Ukrainian food if it is still there.

[msmob]

Demanding others speak and spell things a certain way really hasn't worked out well for Ukraine in the long run. Just sayin'

Hmm and I suppose you still try to catch planes to Leningrad, Peking and Bombay ? ...

[Kunstkammer]

Hmm and I suppose you still try to catch planes to Leningrad, Peking and Bombay ? ...

Are you comparing an actual name change (Leningrad - Petersburg) to demanding speakers of a different language spell something differently?  Odd how Russia hasn't demanded the removal of the 's' in the English transliteration of Petersburg. Because you know, when I speak Russian I can hear the difference...


I do 'catch planes' to LED since I live here. And I have no interest in traveling to China or India. But that is neither here nor there, my point being trying to force people to speak a certain way didn't exactly go over too well now did it?

[msmob]

I have no interest in traveling to China or India. But that is neither here nor there, my point being trying to force people to speak a certain way didn't exactly go over too well now did it?

The airline destinations were an analogies.. I somehow have this feeling you are being deliberately obtuse..

[Bounder]

Looks like the trip report is going off the rails because of side discussions.

Is this going to be another T/R where ear hair grooming takes over the
thread and the report ends?

Well, Bill it's partly my fault as I took Moby's bait. But that's ok, it was more just meant to be a "Hello from Kiev" and let the conversation go where it would (although admittedly, I didn't think it would turn into a debate about Kiev v Kyiv )

Let's see if it gets to grooming of orifices, yet.

[Bounder]

I was at the train station in Kiev yesterday and saw there was a train going to Krakow. I noticed that in Ukrainian it is written Краків, which would give it a oronounciation something like "Krakeev". Based on Ukrainian logic, Poland should bring this matter to the UN and demand that Ukraine get in line with proper spelling and pronounciation. They might as well go after the English-speaking world at the same time for the use of "Cracow"! Maybe the Poles just have better things to do and realize that Polish is their language sphere of influence. Maybe Poland also realizes if they went down that road, they would not only look petty, they would soon have found themselves sunk in a quagmire of double standards! 

[Kunstkammer]

The airline destinations were an analogies.. I somehow have this feeling you are being deliberately obtuse..

No, demanding a forgien language spell something a certain way is being deliberately obtuse. It's worse than the на/в debacle.

[Kunstkammer]

I was at the train station in Kiev yesterday and saw there was a train going to Krakow. I noticed that in Ukrainian it is written Краків, which would give it a oronounciation something like "Krakeev". Based on Ukrainian logic, Poland should bring this matter to the UN and demand that Ukraine get in line with proper spelling and pronounciation. They might as well go after the English-speaking world at the same time for the use of "Cracow"! Maybe the Poles just have better things to do and realize that Polish is their language sphere of influence. Maybe Poland also realizes if they went down that road, they would not only look petty, they would soon have found themselves sunk in a quagmire of double standards! 

It is such a crime that the English language says Saint Petersburg and not Sankt Petorbourg or Peterhof not Petergof. Oh wait, it isn't.


And while I believe everything I said, I took the bait for the lulz. Was not disappointed.

[Bounder]

Yesterday it snowed about 4-5 inches overnight and during the morning. The mechanized army of snow-clearers I think is somewhat smaller than I first had thought. However, the real army of snow-clearers - men and women with shovels, wer out in full force and were slowly clearing the city.

I wasn't able to stay in Kiev long enough to see how long it takes them to dig out of this though. If the temperatures stay where they are (around -10 C), Wallm may have some difficulties navigating some of the sidewalks on the side streets.

I had my shitkickers with me (a slang word from my part of the world for winter boots), which made everything easier and more pleasant. Wallm might want to consider bringing his, if he has some.

I was able to successfully launch the second stage of my plan and yesterday even if as on a train destined to the Kievskaya Station in Moscow.

[wallm]

Wallm may have some difficulties navigating some of the sidewalks on the side streets.

No worries. The ladies will carry me around. 

[LAman]

   
I was able to successfully launch the second stage of my plan and yesterday even if as on a train destined to the Kievskaya Station in Moscow.

My friend took this train last summer. I just as soon fly for the ~4.5 hours. I am NOT big on trains, though the Russian ones are much cleaner/newer. I know this train station well. You have the Evrope Mall across, nice food court up on ?8th floor?.  What area you staying at??? I can tell you another great pinzeria/pizza place!!!

[Bounder]

My friend took this train last summer. I just as soon fly for the ~4.5 hours. I am NOT big on trains, though the Russian ones are much cleaner/newer. I know this train station well. You have the Evrope Mall across, nice food court up on ?8th floor?.  What area you staying at??? I can tell you another great pinzeria/pizza place!!!

There are no direct flights between Kiev and Moscow these days....

I've always been a fan of trains and enjoy taking them.  The train I was on yesterday/today actually wasn't new nor horribly clean, but it did have a bed and I had a nice snooze.

I'm not sure about the mall at Kievskaya Station.  I had a driver meet me on the platform with a sign board - Lingo Taxi, book online, English-speaking drivers, I would recommend it to anyone.

For the next few days, I'm staying near Metro Universitet.  What I'd like to know is where to get an affordable coffee.  Was at Coffee House not far from Red Square today - two Americanos with milk set me back 470ru, over $10CAD.  I ended up there as it seems most places require you to enter a Russian telephone number to access the free internet.  I tried both McDonalds and Starbucks (obvious places for free wifi) and I couldn't use the wifi without a Russian number.

[JayH]

  I ended up there as it seems most places require you to enter a Russian telephone number to access the free internet. I tried both McDonalds and Starbucks (obvious places for free wifi) and I couldn't use the wifi without a Russian number.

Really?   Have you figured out why?