I'll take the losers.

[Jack]

Ok, those losers and other certain type of people out there, and those of you who are thrifty, conservative, those of you who only want to pay say about $7 an hour for an interpreter, I'll take you and I won't think it any less of you either for wanting the best price for good service.

Interpreters for the most part set there own rates.
A wonderful guy we have in Kiev, Rostick, I believe charges $10 a hour now, I think our Pavel is about the same fee, the highest price's of any interpreters we offer in Kiev. As well we have 20 to 30 other fine interpreters in Kiev (mostly females) who are happy with the $7 or $8 an hour they are paid. And we have some 15-20 fine interpreters in Odessa who are happy with $7 an hour. The clients that want to pay $10 will, most choose not to if they can get the same good quality of service for a third of the price less. And I always tell our clients if for any reason your not comfortable with an interpreter, don't use them. There are so many to choose from, find one your happy and compatible with and for this reason I suggest most men try to have two or three interpreters in every city that they can call on. If one does not work out, or maybe one day your interpreter is not well, maybe has an important exam, it's always good being able to call a second or third interpreter you are happy with. If a guy can find one interpreter in a city, he can just as easily find three.

I try to avoid dealing directly with the agencies as much as possible. When I, or are clients, pay that interpreter $28 or $35 for her 4 or 5 hours work I want the money going to her. With some agencies they will take half, some even 60% of the fee the interpreter earns.

All the agencies I deal with know my feelings on this and if they take anything from an interpreters pay, I will deal with another agency in two seconds flat, an agency that allows the interpreter 100% of what she/he earns. And agencies who do this as a normal part of there business know I will find another agency and as such a lot of them do let there interpreters have the work as opposed to losing the work all together. As you can imagine we have a lot of happy interpreters who like to work with us and our clients.

I don't mean to have a negative impact on the agencies income as well and remind them that they are making 100% of the profit on the per meeting fee, or for delivering flowers, gifts, drivers, doing translations, working with us on tour, etc. And for the most part they are getting enough business that the are happy and doing quite well without the income that the interpreters have worked hard for.

[BC]

Jeez.. like a dog with a bone.. y'all just won't let it go.

Haven't heard anyone say anything bad about your interpreters, haven't heard anyone say anything bad about the 'other' guy so what's the point?

Imho customers choose and pay for who they think they will feel comfortable with.  Having seen the 'other' guy on the boards the last few years it would probably be enough to make the extra bucks worthwhile, surely better than an 'unknown' figure I have never interacted with in the past.

You're happy, he is happy - why not just leave it at that.

[Jack]

Well BC, someone deleted my earlier response to you.

BC, "IF" you will read what I wrote, some men will pay the extra money, some men will pay $10 instead of $7 or $8 for an interpreter, but most men, I would say over 80%, will choose the lesser of the two prices.

It's that simple BC. Why you want to make WWIII out of something so simple, but then, it is BC.

BC, the men will ask us how much for the interpreter. We tell them she is $7, or she is $8 or he is $10 and guess what BC, over 80% of the men will choose the lower figure. And I am talking all types of life men BC. Rich men, not rich men.

Most the men have never used the interpreter they are asking about, it will be there first time. They do not know if the $10 an hour interpreter is good, or if the $8 an hour interpreter is better, they just don't know but I am telling you BC, despite your micky-mouse arguing over my post, over 80% of ALL men choose the lesser amount.

Take it for what it's worth, I take it as mankind, as being normal.
Someone else can take it as meaning he is cheap (even though he has lot's of money) or EVEN worse a loser!
And you, who in the hell knows how you would take it but my bet is it will always be 180 degrees opposite of whatever I say or do.


(and I hope that this response is not written in a way to be deleted)

[Jet]

Not to fan the flames, but I do think  there are plenty of guys that fit the "loser" catagory. It's a mindset, and even in my business dealings in the states, which is completely unrelated to this pursuit, there are people who will not only b!tch about the price until it's free - they'll keep on b!tchin' after it's free because it ain't fast enough / good enough or whatever. Matter of fact I'm dealing with a Russian father & Son team right now who are EXACTLY this way. They have absolutely no regard or respect for the individuals who are killing themselves trying to bring this project to a close. It's all about what they want and when they want it, don't even think about mentioning extra charges to make it happen. They ain't poor either. Junior has nothing better to do all day than tool around in his new CL-55 and and pester me by phone with a million and one inane questions. Most nights are spent at patries on Palm beach and lighthouse point 

[Bruno]

BC, "IF" you will read what I wrote, some men will pay the extra money, some men will pay $10 instead of $7 or $8 for an interpreter, but most men, I would say over 80%, will choose the lesser of the two prices.

And some men like me will never use an interpreter !

If i am not able to communicate at a minimum level with a woman, i go to the next one... some discussion are too much private for interpreters... Maybe new type of marriage need to be created for some, like a trio marriage :  husband, wife and interpreter married together 

[Michelangelo]

Seems pretty simple to me....

1)  My first choice was always to find a girl with enough English that we did not need an interpreter.  It's my view that a marriage relationship is so complex that a language barrier is not something you need.  However, I'm aware that some men on this board overcame this barrier and have good marriages.  So it's not a black or white issue to me;

2)  My second choice was to hire my own interpreter, someone who would be accountable to me and not to an agency.  Pavel was the guy I used in the Kiev area, and he was excellent;

3)  When you are dating a lot of girls via an agency, sometimes you have to go with their interpreters.  The girls I drew were always excellent.  Knowing they were not getting paid the full 7 bucks an hour the agency was charging, I always slipped them an extra 20 bucks secret money at the end of the day.  It was money well spent.

[BC]

Jack,

WWIII?? LOL

Both you and I know that it's not so much the topic subject but the methods you employ here to further your business interests that I so often object to.

Your post: http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=2158.msg42484#msg42484  is an obvious attempt to draw attention to this thread advertising your wares. Sorta like soft, on-board 'spam' but with the same nagging effect.  I'd hate to see you and other business owners continue this practice.  Whenever I see such attempts my mind wanders to SVO II, plowing the thick crowd of taxi drivers..

I'm quite sorry your initial post was deleted before I and others could read it - as with any product, I'm curious to see what's really inside the fancy packaging.  Guess I'll have to content myself with shaking the box every now and then.. 

[andrewfi]

Jack ~ there are different prices for different markets and different needs.

For some purposes, having some bint who can speak a bit of English is enough. If I do not care to much about her skill, know that if she does not turn up, or turns up late tat I will have to replace her. For many people, paying the least possible is a good option.

If I want somebody who is well qualified in the language pair, with good experience of the subject matter, who will be on time, every timeand for whom their time with me is the most important thing, then for that I will pay more.

As we both know, most 'interpreters' in this business are nothing of the sort. Their job is something else, maybe if one is lucky, we might get a student of philology from the local university.
These people need less money ( a good thing too because most of the time they are worth no more than they are paid!) Sometimes, often? girls are happy to worry for peanuts in a marriage agency becasue they snag the male clients for themselves. There are plenty of stories from agency owners and clients to back that one up.

Now, Igor, for example, I do not know his paper qualifications, but I know these things:
His command of English in both formal and colloquial forms is first rate - he will be able to understand even the most marble filled mouth of the laziest and least capable English speaker. He does not have a 'horse in the race', in that he is married and not a woman. He has no reason to misrepresent the communication in either direction.
His business is based upon translating and interpreting. If he gets a bad rep then his business fails. The local uni students and similar, well, they just wait for the next call form the next batch of undemanding cheapskates.

I guess that Igor and others like him offer a professional service, the cheaper alternatives offer,at best 'gifted amateur' levels of service. Like other professionals, he does not expect to generate income all the time, but he does want to eat. It is not possible to run a business on the basis of charging one's time at the level of a normal wage. My guess would be that at $20 per hour, Igor's hourly net wage is around $8. Even in Ukraine, this is hardly a princely sum. The local bints used as interpreters are ending up with much less per hour as a wage.

If I was making a time constrained trip and needed the services of an interpreter I would shy away from the bottom end of the market, no matter how highly recommended. $20 per hour, paid when I need it, is not a lot of money. $8 per hour paid when I don't need it and when I do not get what I need is expensive.

There is a place in the market for the 'gifted amateur' and for the professional. I tend to prefer professionals to provide my services. They are often cheaper in the long run, but offer less scope for 3rd party commissions and for grandstanding by intermediaries.

[Son of Clyde]

I will admit Igor's command of the English language is exceptional. I will also stand by my $35.00 a day, college student, interpreter. I was thinking it was $40.00 a day but I remember giving her a $5.00 tip. She stayed with us up to 8 hours a day and even took us to a Disco. She had recommendations, having worked as an interpreter for groups of businessmen visiting Yalta. Is Igor's command of the English language better? I think so but I was happy with my interpreter. Would I recommend Igor's services? Yes I would if you want someone who charges more than the average person. Do not discount someone until you have spoken to them.

[TheHorseman]

And some men like me will never use an interpreter !

If i am not able to communicate at a minimum level with a woman, i go to the next one... some discussion are too much private for interpreters... Maybe new type of marriage need to be created for some, like a trio marriage :  husband, wife and interpreter married together 

I'm with Bruno on this one.  Being able to at least communicate on a basic level is a must.  What happens when you don't have your interpreter.

I guess you can class me in with the Losers.  I really don't have the money to through round.  I do tend to try to do things the least expensive way.  But, I don't mislead the women I have dated in Russia (Only 2) My going as a teacher was in fact to show them that I was a working man and that I did have to watch expenses.  I found that the women understood this and that they actually showed respect for it.  As suggested before I probably won't get a woman of High Quality.  But I am not looking for Quality, I am looking for love.

If you have the money and you feel comfortable hiring someone to translate, that's fine.  But, I don't really concider myself a loser because I choose the muttle my way through and learn Russian as I went along.  Maybe one of these days I can be someone's interpreter in here.

I really don't have a business as yet to draw attention to.  I have brought up the idea of making one on another thread.  Thought I too hate wading through the taxi drivers in SVO myself.

[Michelangelo]

There is a place in the market for the 'gifted amateur' and for the professional. I tend to prefer professionals to provide my services.

Money is not the main consideration for me- be it $7 an hour or $20.  Having said that, I have had wonderful service from university students who are training to be interpreters.  We can talk about language skills here, and from the least expensive to the most expensive I've had good service; however, the most important skill is God given--the ability to read people and situations.  Researchers have termed this skill "natural intelligence."

So my point is that you can get a great interpretor at $7 or $20 ($10 tends to be the high end), but the most important skill they should have is in the area of natural intelligence.

Rapport with your terp is the key.

[JPjr]

Warning for newbies. Do not go looking for a foreign wife, relying on an interpreter with "natural intelligence". If you cannot read a woman's feelings about you from the body language and build a communication repertoire from that for your self, it would be better for you to stay home until you acquire such skills. Reliance on some one else's opinion about the feelings and thoughts of your date is not a good idea. It is pure speculation, no matter how intuitive the terp is. IMHO

[Jack]

Part I reply

Bruno I agree with you, and Andrew and Horseman and Michelangelo with your respect to and your feelings about being able to speak to Russian women. I preach and preach to clients, to friends, to distinguished members of Russian discussion boards, to do all they can to try to meet women they can speak with, communicate with directly without the use of an interpreter.

I often use the term "if she can speak just a little English" because most the time a little English is all it takes. As most Russian women are perfectionist I have found that only those who are interpreters or translators feel they speak good English because most these women do not speak English everyday and as such feel they do not have perfect command of the English language, thus many times they will say their English is not so good, or they only speak a little English. Any time a woman tells me she only speaks a little English, I take it because most time a little is all that is needed.

When I read the comments from you guys whose names I have just mentioned what is the common denominator?.....well it is experience, education?  You guys have been down this road, so have I.  I will not meet any woman who does not speak at least a little English. If I have to have an interpreter to be able to meet, to speak with any woman, guess what,....it's pakaaaaa.

Now let me say two things in regards to this. The first thing is there are always going to be exceptions. Most of us are at some time going to see an absolutely stunning woman that really excites us that we want to meet and we find out she speaks NO English, nada, not any. But she is the type woman we have always dreamed of. It does happen so in those rare cases you have to meet the woman usually with an interpreter. And based on this one meeting a man may like how she presents herself, her smile, her apparent interest in me, he may like a lot of things about this woman that he cannot communicate with. What does he do?  He, me, many of us, we will invest in three months of English lessons. Plan on spending $100 a month. Sometimes we might pay $80 a month, sometimes we might pay $120 but about $100 a month is a good rule of thumb. Lessons are usually three times a week for two hours or two times a week for three hours. After two months you should be able to call on the phone and talk to this woman a little. And oh let me tell you how exciting and memorable those calls are. Now we can actually see if our two months investment has produced anything and most the time, if the woman is really serious about you, you can talk a little, you can see that she has really tried to learn English and if she can, then it usually means she does have a real interest in the man.  After three months of English lessons she is by no means fluent but it does mean we can now meet without an interpreter. Yea, you still have to bring your little dictionary but that's alright because for the main part we are able to communicate and understand each other directly, no middle man, no one there in the evening if I want to try to sneak in a little kiss.

Now the second thing I want to say is this, yes, I know some men have met ladies who could not speak any English, and they married this woman and are living happily ever after. Sure it happens, but I think these situations are the exceptions, not the norm. So for those who are going to holler "Thank goodness I did not listen to you and only meet Russian ladies who spoke English or I would never had met my wife" I say congratulations. I am happy for you. You are one of the lucky one's who succeeded in meeting a Russian woman who spoke no English and everything worked out. But I don't want to base my clients (or myself's) future success on luck.

I will repeat and I have Andrew, Bruno, Michelangelo and Horseman that I can use as examples, look what the experienced and educated man has to say. Each and everyone of these men, and myself, we have all meet Russian ladies who could speak at least a little English and we have all met Russian ladies who have spoken no English. Most experienced men it appears are saying the same thing, they will only meet ladies they can communicate with directly, without the use of an interpreter. But we will always allow for that exception.


Part II reply

Jet, I think all business owners will have these type of people.  When I say I will take these losers I mean I will take good guys who are happy to get good service at a good price. Jet when I run across a client like you have described guess what,....I tell them Pakaaaa. I'm serious. I'm not saying the guy is a loser, most times he is not, I just don't want to work with people like you have described and don't.  (I tell them they should try Anastasia or afa    )

[Michelangelo]

Warning for newbies. Do not go looking for a foreign wife, relying on an interpreter with "natural intelligence". If you cannot read a woman's feelings about you from the body language and build a communication repertoire from that for your self, it would be better for you to stay home until you acquire such skills. Reliance on some one else's opinion about the feelings and thoughts of your date is not a good idea. It is pure speculation, no matter how intuitive the terp is. IMHO

I can see you have not read the research on natural intelligence.

It's much more than what you seem to think it is, and by no means takes away from the man's chemistry or read of the girl.

Having said that, I still prefer by far private meetings with girls who speak English,  even if her English is limited.

[JPjr]

I have years and years of natural intteligence. I think one on one is better, even with some language problems.  With a good translator, one can judge for one's self the date's patience, enthusiasm and willingness to work  out problems. It worked for me

[wiz]

Reading this board I find it just amazing that many men are using translators when they meet a woman from FSU. In my view that is the biggest joke I ever heard off.

Everybody knows that a relationship between a man and a woman needs good communication. Without good communication how the hell you expect to have a successful relationship?

Personally I would not even contemplate starting communication or a relationship with a woman who hardly can speak English and I do not care if she is the best looking woman on the world.

In my view, all these men who invite a woman from FSU to join them on a fiancé visa for 3 months, when she hardly speak any word of English, and expect her to learn the language during her stay, they use this as a pretext to find a woman just to have sex and I don’t think they expect anything more. That is the main reason that most of these invitations fail to succeed.

[TheHorseman]

I didn't really want to be the one that said it,,,, but everyone is kinda hitting around saying it..... "Trophy Wives"

Don't get me wrong,, I love a beautiful woman as much as the next guy, but I still need to be able to talk to them.  At least to say "U tebya krasivaya glaza" or "Ty ochen krasivaya"
If your going to go over their to see her, at least buy the basic starter Russian language tapes.  Maybe you can meet her half way.

Most of the talk in here has to do with them knowing English.  I happen to think it is fair for the man to learn Russian too.

[andrewfi]

SoC and others. Be honest, when you pay less then you expect less, you allow for more errors, laxness, unprofessionalism. When you pay more, you have a right to expect more. The person with whom you deal is being paid to take more responsibility and to be more effective.

I can imagine praising to high heavens a level of service from an amateur that I would complain bitterly about from a professional. And, of course, most of you using an interpreter would have no idea what was good and bad service in this regard, thus price becomes the easiest point of comparison.

Now, if you can not afford more, then you take what you can get.

That said, one is on a sticky wicket when attempting to build a relationship with a person with whom you can not talk  - unless conversation and verbal communication is not important; for some guys it is not, and the women often don't mind.

[BC]

Well I can remember thinking how good it would be if the last WW I had a relationship with had her vocal cords removed..

just jesting folks but there's probably a hint of truth involved.

[Michelangelo]

I have years and years of natural intelligence. I think one on one is better, even with some language problems.  With a good translator, one can judge for one's self the date's patience, enthusiasm and willingness to work  out problems. It worked for me

Ok, let's drop the term natural intelligence, and what the scholarly meaning of the term is.

I'll say it a different way, in jargon free, plain English.

My point is that there is something greater at play than the English ability of the interperter.  It's their natural, God given talent, nurtured by experience reading and reacting to people.

An interperter who does not have good "people skills" can ruin a meeting with a girl.   A $20 an hour interperter can do it, as well as a $7 an hour one.

For example, a people skilled interperter knows when to speak and when to be silent.  And they know not to inject their own comments or questions into the conversation between the man and the woman.  And they also know when to get the hell out of the way.  I remember an incident last year with my $7 interperter correctly read the body language between the girl and me, and promply excused herself to go have a cigarette.  She stayed gone until we went for her.

Pavel, who was more expensive, also has those skills. 

Both of these people were able to give great post visit feedback, but only when asked for it.

Point 1:  You need an interperter with the ability to "read" the interaction of the couple, and not to interject or mess it up;

Point 2:  I still think that 95% of the time you should forget using any interpeter and go solo.

[Son of Clyde]

I have used Pavel's services on a number of occasions and his English is also first rate. Please do not say negative things unless you have actually met the interpreter. Pavel is not without an accent and unless Stirlitz is completely free of any trace of a Russian/Ukrainian accent he should fall in the same category as Pavel and my friend. As long as there is good communication you can choose whomever you wish.

[Jet]

I often use the term "if she can speak just a little English" because most the time a little English is all it takes. As most Russian women are perfectionist I have found that only those who are interpreters or translators feel they speak good English because most these women do not speak English everyday and as such feel they do not have perfect command of the English language, thus many times they will say their English is not so good, or they only speak a little English. Any time a woman tells me she only speaks a little English, I take it because most time a little is all that is needed.

I think this is a very good point that is all too often glazed over. The Russian women I know (especially my wife) all tend to downplay their ability. RW are deathly afraid of being percieved as "stupid" in social situations, and so they may tell you they only know a little bit, but they probably understand far more than they let on, or are willing to speak.

[Admin]

This topic has lost focus - and is now following the theme of whether or not someone should select a girl who speaks English, thereby obviating the need for a translator.

Suggest this be taken to a different forum.

- Dan

[JPjr]

Michel, a very objective post and I agree. Especially with the fact that there may be no difference between a $7 and $20 interpreter, other than their understanding of the market value of their talent. Over sold and under sold is the point of competion. Competion for my business is good for me, the consumer. That is all Jack has said. And without putting anyone down. I for one would use someone known on the boards. Some have no financial restraints, some do and need to budget. So i would go with some one trusted and easily communicated with, who advertises in my price range. Gosh I guess through an educated browse of my Options, I pick Jack, well known, experienced, right here most of the time, understands budgeting. See how it works, competion and all.

[Leslie]

Using a young interpreter is fine for initial meetings.  I have used Jack's interpreters myself so I can speak from personal experience.  If you need relationship advice from a student then you should not be playing this game.  Beyond the third date an interpreter is like a turd in a cornflake bowl  

LEARN RUSSIAN.  Your limited Russian and her limited English and a dictionary is the way to go.  If you are not prepared to make this effort then only date women who speak reasonable English.  Language education is important for you and vital for her.  Being cheap here is counter productive.  You get what you pay for.

I have worked in foreign countries for a significant part of my life so I am used to dealing with commercial interpreters/translators.  I have a friend who is registered with the British Embassy as a commercial translator.  He does not work with MOB clients and few would pay his fees (more than double Igor's).  His level of skill is WAY beyond the $7 interpreters who will hang around a disco bar with you.  You need this level of skill occasionally.  Providing a legally certified translation of a pre marital agreement.  Or translating the contracts when you buy a flat.  You get what you pay for.  What most guys need is a guide with good social skills.  A reliable person who you can trust is more important than linguistic skills.  

IMHO you should learn enough Russian to be self sufficient as quick as possible.