Advice from guys who have been there

[Boethius]

I don't think she was bad news. Someone who could be swayed by the forum was not in love, and neither was she. I suspect that is true more often than not. Best to part as adults, perhaps with sadness but no hard feelings.

I think what she was saying about Russian men is that they will pursue the object of their affection more relentlessly. Their attitude toward women is very different than that of WM, both good and bad.

[BillyB]

I don't think she was bad news.

She's unpredictable and that is bad news. First she didn't want the phone and money offered by Sender to help her when she goes back home. Then she wanted the money, phone and Sender to throw in a vacation. Sender gave in and she may expect him to give into a few more demands before it's over.

When Sender offered to get her cash for the phone which is better used to buy necessities when she gets back home, she preferred to hang onto the phone instead. I guess she doesn't need the money.

She also tells him the reason her behavior towards him is due to culture shock numerous times yet she goes have fun at a rock concert with "strangers" and want to travel all over California. Doesn't sound like she's that paralyzed by her surroundings.

I think what she was saying about Russian men is that they will pursue the object of their affection more relentlessly.

I don't think she ever cared for Sender as a husband. I don't know why she's telling him to be a Real MAN unless as a last resort, she can get more out of him. She's probably used to Russian men giving up everything they got for her. When they are broke, they have no more to give and are discarded.

[Sender]

I told some close friends of mine about the experience for the first time this evening, telling them the exact info I gave in this thread.  I figured they would be less jaded and more open-minded than some posters in this forum -- they know absolutely nothing about international dating, nothing about the DV claims, absolutely nothing about this kind of situation.

They listened in stunned silence, and their first response was:  "So was this just a paid vacation for her?"  Basically, exactly what Hammer2722 said.

Hearing people say that who have no familiarity with the scams and schemes, the international dating process, yet come to the same conclusion as some of the posters on this forum really hammered it home.  And, for the first time throughout this entire process, I felt genuine, consuming rage.  Like I started feeling very angry.  Incredibly angry.

The problem isn't that you tried international dating, the problem is how you evaluate women.

Keep in mind, I have never been treated by an American woman like this.  Not to say they don't exist; I'm just saying it took an FSUW to reach this level for me.  My friend Paul, one of the ones I was telling this situation to for the first time this evening, went on a side story about all the crazy Russian women he's met.

I think I'm done with FSUW for the foreseeable future.  They can stay in Russia and enjoy it.  Other men are welcome to them.

fathertime said in my introductory thread:

From what I've seen/read the ones going Asian have the best record regarding marriages that last forever.  The ones with the Latina's have the most fun, and the ones with the Russians have the most money.

And I never forgot that.  I think if I work up the energy and finances again, I'm going to give the Asian side a shot.

[BillyB]

Keep in mind, I have never been treated by an American woman like this.  Not to say they don't exist; I'm just saying it took an FSUW to reach this level for me.  My friend Paul, one of the ones I was telling this situation to for the first time this evening, went on a side story about all the crazy Russian women he's met.

I think I'm done with FSUW for the foreseeable future.  They can stay in Russia and enjoy it.  Other men are welcome to them.

There are guys that come here and say American women are crazy and will never date them again. Some people get involved with the wrong people all the time. There was a failure in your part to identify your ex fiancée's character, sincerity, and her interest in you. Most of us made that mistake and we got to make changes on how we evaluate people. Today, I would never make the mistake of marrying a person like my first wife. Live and learn.

I'm going to give the Asian side a shot.

I'm half Asian. All my Asian female relatives are Alphas and run the house. Contrary to popular belief that Asian women are timid and submissive, you can get ran over by those women and if they're insincere, you will get used.

[Sender]

I'm half Asian. All my Asian female relatives are Alphas and run the house. Contrary to popular belief that Asian women are timid and submissive, you can get ran over by those women and if they're insincere, you will get used.

I'm actually half-Asian as well.  I never thought of Asian women being timid and submissive, at least not from my experience, but that doesn't sound very attractive anyways.

[msmob]

Hi Sender,



Find a way to get this woman on a plane back to Russia - legally and without emotion from you.

Sometimes things don't work out and this was one of them... you found out really early and be grateful for that.

I have no idea about her Visa status - but if this relationship isn't going to work - can someone advise Sender as to his responsibilities...  / her rights - if any - as she is in the US on the basis of a 'relationship'

Is Sender supposed to notify the immigration authorities if she has agreed not to further the relationship?

I ask - as in the UK - even if married - the circumstances have to be exceptional for the right to remain to not be cancelled - as the basis for that right are gone.  ( During the first two years )






 

[fathertime]

Hearing people say that who have no familiarity with the scams and schemes, the international dating process, yet come to the same conclusion as some of the posters on this forum really hammered it home.  And, for the first time throughout this entire process, I felt genuine, consuming rage.  Like I started feeling very angry.  Incredibly angry.

Most of us that hear the story are probably mildly agitated for you.  If it were me in your shoes, I'd also be angry, because the way you describe it, you have been used by a woman that doesn't care.      Despite the anger you are now feeling, you have to keep your cool and bite your tongue until she is out of America.  It is better to vent here, or with some close friends.  If you can minimize your loss this time, you will likely do better in any future adventures, if you decide to go that route.   


 I'd send a damn limo with champagne, caviar,  and male strippers if that was what it took to get her to the airport and on the plane back to Russia! 


Fathertime! 

[vwrw]

I told some close friends of mine about the experience for the first time this evening, telling them the exact info I gave in this thread.  I figured they would be less jaded and more open-minded than some posters in this forum -- they know absolutely nothing about international dating, nothing about the DV claims, absolutely nothing about this kind of situation.

They listened in stunned silence, and their first response was:  "So was this just a paid vacation for her?"  Basically, exactly what Hammer2722 said.

As you mentioned it yourself, nether members of this forum nor your friends know her side of story. Therefore, it is not surprising that evaluating the details provided by you, we arrived to similar conclusions. It does not matter how many people have a certain perception, it still may be a wrong perception. Many years ago, everyone thought the earth was flat. It did not make the earth flat, however.


The fact that she told you the date of departure for her tickets indicates she is going to leave. I do not believe that her desire to stay here for few more days points to her intention to stay here.


I do not believe the "paid vacation" theory either. If she could pretend to be in love with you to get a paid vacation, she would continue to do it until her curiosity for CA is satisfied and then tell you she wants to  go home. if you were not intimate before, I could buy the paid vacation theory. However, the  assumption that a woman could sleep with a man to get a visa to US, but she could not be nice to him to enjoy a three months paid vacation in Sacramento seems unlikely to me.


I bet if my ex fiancee would tell our story to somebody, they would think that I was not committed to make the relationship work, that I gave up at the sight of the first difficulty that people in love could work out. Although I agree that most of the things that were troubling our relationship could be eliminated via communication and mutual desire to work on those issues together, there was one thing that we could not fix and we never discussed it with him.


I was unpacking my things and organizing them. I had to move some of his things to do that and I saw something that changed everything between us. I never told him what I saw that day, yet I used the discovered info to start a conversation on the topic. Then I put together what he told me on the topic with the things I discovered and it shocked me. Everything that seemed somewhat unusual before started to make sense to me at that moment. I saw no point in confronting him with the information because he would just deny it, and regardless of whether he denied it or conformed it, I would not be able to erase it from my head. Our relationship was over. The listeners of his side of the story may make many assumptions of  why our relationship did not work, but no one would guess the truth. Sender, do not get angry with the assumptions your listeners make about her. Nobody, but her knows the true answer about her behavior and decisions.

[ML]

. . . there was one thing that we could not fix and we   (I) never discussed it with him.

I was unpacking my things and organizing them. I had to move some of his things to do that and I saw something that changed everything between us. . . .

WOW, this opens up a thousand intriguing possibilities !!!

OK, I will start.

You saw a lot of clothing items that indicated he was a transvestite.

And the worst part was . . . none of the clothing would fit you.

[vwrw]

LOL...I did not care about the clothing but the shoes were fabulous.


What I will say next is most likely a wrong perception and I do not claim it is true, but for some reason, I feel like Sender is a book writer, who is researching this topic of a Russian woman leaving his fiancee. We all know that books written based on true events are usually more fascinating.      [size=78%]  [/size]

[GQBlues]

As you mentioned it yourself, nether members of this forum nor your friends know her side of story. Therefore, it is not surprising that evaluating the details provided by you, we arrived to similar conclusions. It does not matter how many people have a certain perception, it still may be a wrong perception. Many years ago, everyone thought the earth was flat. It did not make the earth flat, however.


The fact that she told you the date of departure for her tickets indicates she is going to leave. I do not believe that her desire to stay here for few more days points to her intention to stay here.


I do not believe the "paid vacation" theory either. If she could pretend to be in love with you to get a paid vacation, she would continue to do it until her curiosity for CA is satisfied and then tell you she wants to  go home. if you were not intimate before, I could buy the paid vacation theory. However, the  assumption that a woman could sleep with a man to get a visa to US, but she could not be nice to him to enjoy a three months paid vacation in Sacramento seems unlikely to me.

Right on!
 
In addition, the very fact the OP is already contemplating hitting the MOB circuit ASAP without an ounce of apprehension even before putting a closure unto his present circumstances is enough to convince me something is rotten in cow town.
 
Chalk one up for the peanut gallery! 

[Maxx2]

Right on!
 
In addition, the very fact the OP is already contemplating hitting the MOB circuit ASAP without an ounce of apprehension even before putting a closure unto his present circumstances is enough to convince me something is rotten in cow town.
 
Chalk one up for the peanut gallery! 

After 14 years I am still struggling with doing the MOB thing again.


Welcome back GQ!

[2tallbill]

Hearing people say that who have no familiarity with the scams and schemes, the international dating process, yet come to the same conclusion as some of the posters on this forum really hammered it home.  And, for the first time throughout this entire process, I felt genuine, consuming rage.  Like I started feeling very angry.  Incredibly angry.

Keep in mind, I have never been treated by an American woman like this.  Not to say they don't exist; I'm just saying it took an FSUW to reach this level for me.  My friend Paul, one of the ones I was telling this situation to for the first time this evening, went on a side story about all the crazy Russian women he's met.

I know you put a lot of time, money and emotional energy into this but it
didn't work out and you need to give yourself a pep talk and move on. Face
it unless you are going to join the pride parades you are gong to continue
pursuing women, most of them aren't a good fit so you need to meet a large
number of them to find one who is a good match.

I don't know enough about the girl to know what her goals were. I don't know
her age either, which matters if she is under 24 or 25. Many FSUW girls under
that age tend to change their minds with the wind, and tend to be far more
flaky and self centered.

People process things like this differently. You are getting a lot of free advice.
Some advice will be better than others. Your job is not to take any of the advice
personally and sift through the advice using what works for you, your situation,
your goals and your personality.

I've been bucked off the FSUW horse more times than most, but I kept at it and
was eventually successful. There aren't any perfect countries that have perfect
girls where any one of them would make a great wife. You need to sift through
a bunch of non-matching girls to find a good match. When you find a non-match
you move on and you rinse and repeat until you find a good match.

Here is a good thread to get started with
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0

Udachi!

Bill

[GQBlues]

maxx-
 
>10 years ago, there's a slight chance I can believe a RW would 'sex someone up', and invest over a year of her life, just to get a ticket to USA. Those days are gone for Russians. Especially one from Moscow, no less. This may still be true for other nations, but no longer for Russians.
 
I am also astounded of the OP's ignorance of Russian roots in NoCal. Heck, hasn't he heard of the Russian River (aka Slavyanka, The Great Wine River) flowing like the American River considering he lives in Sac-Town, of all things? Russians were already in NoCal even before Jerry Brown's grandparents were born.
 
Since being involved in this endeavor, I have laid witness to countless cases of K1s gone bad, and happy to note the very vast majority of the time, it is not because of the gals.
 
Wifey, when she first came here, hated our 'sun'. She said it was much brighter than what they have in Novo. LMAO! What she really meant was - she expected LA to have tall buildings, like she saw in countless Hollywood movies, not realizing our area is as flat as it is. Making, of course, total exposure to sunshine as though it is in fact *brighter* than Novo, or areas with tall buildings comparatively.
 
Oh yeah, the food? Remember my story about the lobster/pork chops? Her palette was no way near accustomed to anything here. Had I known better, I would've just doused her servings with dill and call it Russian food. Thank gawd for Rasputin and sushi!
 
Yes Nancy, everything in Russia is much better. So the story goes...

I could go on - but these are just tidbits of what they call an 'adjustment' period. It can be difficult to understand, much less live and cope with. But hey, anyone filing a fiancée visa SHOULD equate to a notion that the petitioner have some emotional and moral commitment to the beneficiary to some deeper level, no? Otherwise, filling a hole in someone's life is hardly conducive to sticking it out through thick and thin. Just sayin'...
 
There is a LOT to understand and appreciate in what the OP's gal told him re: Real Man.

[2tallbill]

After 14 years I am still struggling with doing the MOB thing again.


Welcome back GQ!

LOL, I wouldn't really equate going expat as MOB. Living in country
is more like buying locally 

[wallm]

I know I am going off on a tangent here. What does "Real Man" mean for FSUW?
And what does "Russian men pursue like no other" mean?

[Patagonie]

The problem isn't that you tried international dating, the problem is how you evaluate women. You will still have this problem dating at home if you don't make some changes. Some men can't tell the sincere from the insincere women. Some men can't spot incompatibility issues. Those men get involved with the wrong women.

If she doesn't take that flight, she is punishing you by wasting your money. It will not be the last time she punishes you. Don't get a DV record. Make sure to change the locks on the door ASAP.

Hopefully she enjoys her vacation in America while going through culture shock.

Please notice that the OP still didn't answer to my questions.
So we cannot fix anything about the beginning of the story.

[vwrw]

I know I am going off on a tangent here. What does "Real Man" mean for FSUW?
And what does "Russian men pursue like no other" mean?

The concept that a real man would chase/pursue his chosen woman is common not only in FSU, but also in other countries. For example, the wife of my son in law, who is from Philippines, was having a really good time telling everybody how he pursued her despite the fact that she acted cool toward him at first. She removed him from her facebook's friends list, acted polite but distant, and he continued to try to woo her. His actions showed to her that he was serious, persistent in the attainment of his goals and she could rely on him. He actually looked embarrassed when she was telling the story of their courtship. In her eyes, on the other hand, his pursuit of her was not a sign of weakness, but a sign that he is a real man and she wanted to tell everybody about his feat.


Another time when I observed the concept that a "real man would pursue" when one of my best friends was looking for the right man for her. She met a guy she really liked. She checked her phone all the time, hoping to get news from him, yet reading her replies to him, you would think she was not interested in him. She wanted him to chase her before she would open up to him. I remember one day they had a disagreement and she very much wanted him to make the first step, hug her and say let's forget about it; yet, when he tried to reconcile with her, she acted as if she still was upset. He had to pursue her a little longer before she let him know she was not upset anymore.

[GQBlues]

Bill Withers summed it up fairly close to what my version of 'Real Men', as it pertains to that silly 'adjustment' period these gals go through when they hit the tarmac/passport control.
 

[JayH]

I know I am going off on a tangent here. What does "Real Man" mean for FSUW?
And what does "Russian men pursue like no other" mean?

There is substantial discussion on the "real man"  not long ago on forum-- as well as being discussed many times.
Maybe someone can find a link?

Russian men persist -- maybe MrsB can elaborate?

[JayH]

The concept that a real man would chase/pursue his chosen woman is common not only in FSU, but also in other countries. For example, the wife of my son in law, who is from Philippines, was having a really good time telling everybody how he pursued her despite the fact that she acted cool toward him at first. She removed him from her facebook's friends list, acted polite but distant, and he continued to try to woo her. His actions showed to her that he was serious, persistent in the attainment of his goals and she could rely on him. He actually looked embarrassed when she was telling the story of their courtship. In her eyes, on the other hand, his pursuit of her was not a sign of weakness, but a sign that he is a real man and she wanted to tell everybody about his feat.


Another time when I observed the concept that a "real man would pursue" when one of my best friends was looking for the right man for her. She met a guy she really liked. She checked her phone all the time, hoping to get news from him, yet reading her replies to him, you would think she was not interested in him. She wanted him to chase her before she would open up to him. I remember one day they had a disagreement and she very much wanted him to make the first step, hug her and say let's forget about it; yet, when he tried to reconcile with her, she acted as if she still was upset. He had to pursue her a little longer before she let him know she was not upset anymore.

Nice explanation.
It is too easy to be western "cool" in approach. Guy needs to be very upfront -- and often !
I have often joked that you cannot say "your beautiful" to often !
One of the difficulties faced is that a girls reservation can easily be confused with "not interested" -- it is definitely one of the harder areas to read .
I have often said to guys --if you are really interested-- don't keep it a secret !

[wallm]

So, FSU real men persist! Nice. But do they persist only till they can bang her? I keep hearing over and over how FSU men run away from responsibilities, don't wish to solve problems, give up easy, etc. What kind of persistence and pursuit do these ladies want?

[2tallbill]

I know I am going off on a tangent here. What does "Real Man" mean for FSUW?
And what does "Russian men pursue like no other" mean?

I did a search for "Real Man" but didn't find it. Bo and Brass and others had an extensive
conversation about that exact topic recently. I imagine either Bo or Brass
could remember how to find it.

So, FSU real men persist! Nice. But do they persist only till they can bang her? I keep hearing over and over how FSU men run away from responsibilities, don't wish to solve problems, give up easy, etc. What kind of persistence and pursuit do these ladies want?

You know as well as I do that they have all types of Women in the FSU. They have
short, tall, thin, fat, smart, dumb, angels and demons, calm and batsh!t cRaZy and
everything in between. You can say the same for FSU men, they have all types. 

Culturally, they do a number of things differently. FSU women want men to pursue
them, seduce them and win their hearts. They want to know that you are attracted
and interested in them (all women are like this).

 

[GQBlues]

So, FSU real men persist! Nice. But do they persist only till they can bang her? I keep hearing over and over how FSU men run away from responsibilities, don't wish to solve problems, give up easy, etc. What kind of persistence and pursuit do these ladies want?

Yeppers. You can file that on FSU Section 2B4U, Section Oxymoron 101-2c, Sub-Section RU-OK. It should be right next to the FSU rule: *Do not wear the clothes you wore outside inside the house. They are dirty and shouldn't be touching anything inside your home.*
 
So don't bother seeking logic in this considering, those very clothes she wore outside is hung back up against her other 'clean' clothes in her closet.
 
FTR. I really don't subscribe to the 'Real Men' concept during courtship, but with the sole exception of being 'fully supportive' to the obvious difficulties that befall many of these women during their adjustment period.
 
During courtship, if a woman plays mind games with me, she'll soon be playing by herself. I can never lose what I never had. The other way seem much too close to being a pussywhip.
 
But as always, YMMV.

[Boethius]

So, FSU real men persist! Nice. But do they persist only till they can bang her?

No.  My better half grew up in the FSU, and has stuck around for 30+ years.


Belvis is a RM who posts here.  He is in a first marriage as well.

I keep hearing over and over how FSU men run away from responsibilities, don't wish to solve problems, give up easy, etc. What kind of persistence and pursuit do these ladies want?

The ones who run away from responsibility usually have addiction problems.  If alcoholism rates were lower in the FSU, FSUW wouldn't be looking abroad.