Third Time Lucky in Kiev

[2tallbill]

She seems definite on me, and while the Ukraine is not a good place for a non-speaking foreigner like me, I'm going to do what I can to sort out a solution to us being together. So yes, I'm sure after just one, I know its surprising but I think we are in both the same boat of wanting to get it together fast. We both get on real well together,  but of course we'll be meeting up again in a few we and so then that will be after two

Trench,

Go on your trip together and meet again. I visited Angel Eyes 4 times and
she visited me twice before we got married. My advice is not to rush this.
If this is your girl for all eternity, then a few more visits to make sure aren't
going to hurt anything. Continue being optimistic, continue moving things
forward, but make more trips.
 
Udachi!

Bill

[Patagonie]

i went three times to Ukraine and my wife came three times in my country before we got married.

[Muzh]

I'm surprised you say that if you're married to one Muhz, or perhaps you've been married to a FSW so long you've forgotten what western women are like. The only way they are the same is that they both have the female form, well we hope they do, lol. From my experience and from the girl I'm with western women & FSW are totally different. FSW are a whole new refreshing world to me as a man from the west, feminine, friendly, soft (ok they can be a little direct but that's no problem, good actually) and very much into men, they have no hang ups or relationship issues so long as you're a decent guy & treat them decently. I'm absolutely delighted to be with the girl I'm now in a relationship with. In the west I had little luck with the ladies, even the ones that showed interest were playing me off against umpteen other guys they were also interested in. In the west women I found as difficult to interact with at times, standoffish, changeable demeanour/attitude, tick box marking of guys, holding little value for guys, sometimes even aggressive/hostile attitude towards guys even though they were apparently straight, some girls could be cold as ice, party/social scene obsessed. Bigtex you are doing yourself a tremendous favour to yourself by going for a FSW, women there are so much better than in the west, far better quality all around and of course quantity. Once you get over there and meet up with one, or some you'll see what I mean.

Dude, she's been here 17 years. This BS that she will be ALWAYS in high heels and all dolled up just for you is nothing more than a selling gimmick from these agencies. How long has your RW been with you in GB?

[Anotherkiwi]

...the Ukraine...

Why, after 18 months on this board, and having been told many times NOT to do so, do you persist in writing "the" Ukraine?  You might live in the United Kingdom, but you don't live in "the" England or "the" London.

There is no such country as "the" Ukraine!

[Trenchcoat]

I would have walked away if the girl was not right or be taking it slow if I had any reservations/doubts, etc. The investment is not so great with girl I could not easily do this and be back to where I was financially in a couple of months or so.

Thing is with this girl taking things slower almost like putting her in a holding pattern seems actually counterproductive, damaging to us even. I've been cautiously trying to perceive any red flags but any suspicions have dispersed. I am convinced she is into me and no other ulterior motive at all. I've been careful to analyse & reanalyse in case I've been lacking on the character judgement front but no ringing alarm bells at all. She is the real deal I am sure and this surprises me too. To be honest the way I'm going to proceed with this if she is agreeable which I very much get the drift she will be there will unlikely be much in terms of downsides for either of us. I'm not looking to be getting married in UK, lol and think I can sort the living together location. In any case I think I've already discovered that our disagreements never amount to any falling out in relationship and for me this bodes well I think.

Main thing is I think is that I could see my future with this girl being very rosy and not just for me but her also. It actually looks better for us to get it together quickly now we know we're both really into each other and can live together well (even if it was just only a week). Prolonging present life holds little joy joy for me and from what I hear of her life little for her as well.

[JayH]

Why would I be in a committed relationship if I hadn't met the girl and only just Skyped,lol 

Yes, I met the girl in Kiev that's why I was third time lucky (note there is no ? there). It's not a muse either together with looking at my status I would not already be committed if I was just musing.

So you met in Kyiv --which is in Ukraine  -- correct?
This girl is from Kherson ? Or lives in Kherson?
Given the frequency of your lengthy posts -- you said nothing of this to the forum? Nothing at all?

[HoundDaddyLee]

So you met in Kyiv --which is in Ukraine  -- correct?
This girl is from Kherson ? Or lives in Kherson?
Given the frequency of your lengthy posts -- you said nothing of this to the forum? Nothing at all?

Jay,


He gave her a vacation in Kyiv and is now giving her a vacation to the Med. He has difficulty communicating due to her "bad internet". Jay, you have spent countless months all over Ukraine and in other than the smallest village, the mobile internet systems are pretty good. Certainly more reliable than in the US!


Trench is paying for "English Lessons". Even if he is giving the money direct to the school, there is no guarantee that is what the money will be used for. And he is talking co-habitation after 1 week together. The alarm bells should be going off. To give you some perspective, my girl spent 3 weeks in the US last year with me on three different trips. I spent 10 days over New Years this year (at her home). I am here now typing this on an 8 day trip. Plus we have known each other for over 4 years (via Skype/social media).


I hope this turns out well for you Trench, but I agree with Wallm, so your roll and get to know her better.


HDL


P.S. Muzh is right. Women are woman (and men are men) everywhere. This will become clear to you the first time you really piss her off! 

[JayH]

Jay,


He gave her a vacation in Kyiv and is now giving her a vacation to the Med. He has difficulty communicating due to her "bad internet". Jay, you have spent countless months all over Ukraine and in other than the smallest village, the mobile internet systems are pretty good. Certainly more reliable than in the US!


Trench is paying for "English Lessons". Even if he is giving the money direct to the school, there is no guarantee that is what the money will be used for. And he is talking co-habitation after 1 week together. The alarm bells should be going off. To give you some perspective, my girl spent 3 weeks in the US last year with me on three different trips. I spent 10 days over New Years this year (at her home). I am here now typing this on an 8 day trip. Plus we have known each other for over 4 years (via Skype/social media).


I hope this turns out well for you Trench, but I agree with Wallm, so your roll and get to know her better.


HDL


P.S. Muzh is right. Women are woman (and men are men) everywhere. This will become clear to you the first time you really piss her off! 

Lee --I know the Kherson area quite well -- as it happens !( so do you if I recall correctly!!)  maybe she in in the region-- and not in Kherson itself?
It is possible anywhere to not have great connection eg  in building basement I do not always get connection .
Without drawing any conclusion on this particular problem --it is possible that her phone is not great --my later model phone is vastly superior in holding connection -- but even so -- I do have drop outs .
So-- other than being facetious about TC problem --it is a yes-maybe problem.

FWIW--to repeat -- when i first came to the forums some years ago-- it was my comment about internet connections not always being good-- that got me called a liar about ever being there !! And that was by someone who until this day has not been there !
Generally speaking --internet is very good -- and fast.
 It is funny that you mention the US about internet -- it was 2nd rate here too until more recent times and it was how good the internet was in Ukraine that was one of my very early observations.

TC situation -- not enough info to comment .
A very big point you made-- and Muzh made-- women are women  - but Ukr/Rus women mm "This will become clear to you the first time you really piss her off!"

[Trenchcoat]

Lee --I know the Kherson area quite well -- as it happens !( so do you if I recall correctly!!)  maybe she in in the region-- and not in Kherson itself?
It is possible anywhere to not have great connection eg  in building basement I do not always get connection .
Without drawing any conclusion on this particular problem --it is possible that her phone is not great --my later model phone is vastly superior in holding connection -- but even so -- I do have drop outs .
So-- other than being facetious about TC problem --it is a yes-maybe problem.

FWIW--to repeat -- when i first came to the forums some years ago-- it was my comment about internet connections not always being good-- that got me called a liar about ever being there !! And that was by someone who until this day has not been there !
Generally speaking --internet is very good -- and fast.
 It is funny that you mention the US about internet -- it was 2nd rate here too until more recent times and it was how good the internet was in Ukraine that was one of my very early observations.

TC situation -- not enough info to comment .
A very big point you made-- and Muzh made-- women are women  - but Ukr/Rus women mm "This will become clear to you the first time you really piss her off!"

Thanks Jay, one of you're more rational posts

Skype video is not great her end, I get the slow connection message come up & it cuts out here or there, etc. I tend to use home broadband, fibre optic up to 200Mbps - Virgin Media, Super Fibre 50, Vivid 200. Got there new router box & all so quality should be fine from my end, occasionally my PC disconnects but this is to do with a glitch inherent to my PC make, its pretty new & powerful, spent about a grand on buying it a couple of years or so ago.

So yeah, she's from Kherson. I know when she travels out a bit into the region its apparently very bad so is virtually non-existent in all practicality. The blurryness of the Skype video tends to support that there is a problem of reception at her end. I mean I can see her ok but its a bit blurry as in not very sharp, she can apparently see me fine. It could well be down to the mobile phone carrier she uses, maybe a cheap one. I've no reason to believe that this is part of anything dodgy, it all seems straight up to me, I mean you can't really make your video connection function bad and there would be no benefit for her doing so.

I know from the girl I saw in Nikolaev last year, younger girls can have very basic mobile phone technology, many are just too poor it seems to afford the latest cutting edge equipment and sometimes anywhere near it since they earn so little. Anyway girl I met briefly was a student and I would judge even poorer than girl I am with, she had to borrow use of a laptop in her student dorm apparently and her phone she showed me looked ancient, if it was even smartphone then it was one of the real early ones, much more antiquated than the phone the girl I'm with has. Hence I never Skyped with girl from Nikolaev since she had no real ability to Skype, this as we all know was a mistake, but interesting journey all the same & learnt from experience.

So I think poor internet really genuinely is the case. Some seem to forget that Ukraine is a poor country, poorer still out in the less popular regional cities & outer lying regions. For sure acquiring good internet is no doubt possible if you have the money or are well situated, but between making ends meet in a tough economy & getting good internet access, it seems apparent to me that many will put internet access as a secondary concern.   

[Trenchcoat]

Jay,


He gave her a vacation in Kyiv and is now giving her a vacation to the Med. He has difficulty communicating due to her "bad internet". Jay, you have spent countless months all over Ukraine and in other than the smallest village, the mobile internet systems are pretty good. Certainly more reliable than in the US!


Trench is paying for "English Lessons". Even if he is giving the money direct to the school, there is no guarantee that is what the money will be used for. And he is talking co-habitation after 1 week together. The alarm bells should be going off. To give you some perspective, my girl spent 3 weeks in the US last year with me on three different trips. I spent 10 days over New Years this year (at her home). I am here now typing this on an 8 day trip. Plus we have known each other for over 4 years (via Skype/social media).


I hope this turns out well for you Trench, but I agree with Wallm, so your roll and get to know her better.


HDL


P.S. Muzh is right. Women are woman (and men are men) everywhere. This will become clear to you the first time you really piss her off! 

She's not a holiday whore if that's what you mean. Most people on this forum know I am pretty scam sensitive some might say paranoid, lol. If I got the impression this was all about holidays I would not be agreeing to a second meeting. The first girl I saw seemed to be giving out holiday whore signals so that was a no go. In all our discussions she is more interested in me and being with me, our relationship. To me this is genuine and comes across as such there is no way to my mind that a have on would continue like she does.

For some, the more longer process suits. We co-inhabited for one week in the same bed, you have for longer here & there. We were perfectly at ease with each other & both seemed to enjoy the situation. For sure perhaps it may turn out that it doesn't work out long term but I see little point carrying it on over 4 years - I mean to me its no relationship some guy that just pops up in girls life just randomly here or there. To me that is treating the woman like she is a bit on the side, there for whenever the joe takes his fancy, to me its kind of a cold way to treat the woman not a full on relationship. If anything such an arrangement may not be at all good situation to be in - how do you know for example the girl isn't screwing around behind you're back thinking well he's made no commitment to me so... or hooks up with some local guy then they agree to pump you for all the money its worth for this, that & the other. To me such an arrangement seems a recipe for disaster. I would rather give it a full on go to what seems the real deal and take the risk of it falling apart along the way than have a relationship almost in name only in the twilight zone. 

[ML]

We co-inhabited for one week in the same bed, you have for longer here & there.

Please elaborate.  Is this some particular position?
And were you longer . . . here or there?

[ML]

how do you know for example the girl isn't screwing around behind you're back thinking well he's made no commitment to me so...

The gal (or guy) has every right to screw around with whomever they want to . . . up until ring goes on finger.

[HoundDaddyLee]

The gal (or guy) has every right to screw around with whomever they want to . . . up until ring goes on finger.

Well to answer Trench's worry she is "screwing around". She has a ring. We are waiting for the daughter to finish college. But please Trench tell me your great knowledge after spending a week with your gal...

HDL

[Trenchcoat]

Well to answer Trench's worry she is "screwing around". She has a ring. We are waiting for the daughter to finish college. But please Trench tell me your great knowledge after spending a week with your gal...

HDL

You must surely find it a pain though to be separated from her for so long, not being able to hold or touch her but have the barrier of the glass screen of the PC in the way. How do you deal with the relationship being long-distance for so long?

I assume you paid for her trips to the US each time? That must of cost a bit.

[Boethius]

I would not be concerned at all about the internet connection.  It is uneven across the country.  There are whole villages in Western Ukraine these days that have no electricity, as villagers can't pay their electricity bills, and you will see the elderly picking up driftwood to heat their homes.


I also wouldn't be concerned about the money for English lessons.  It's a leap of faith, and even were it a scam, how much money is at risk?  A couple hundred dollars?  It's peanuts. 

[Trenchcoat]

I would not be concerned at all about the internet connection.  It is uneven across the country.  There are whole villages in Western Ukraine these days that have no electricity, as villagers can't pay their electricity bills, and you will see the elderly picking up driftwood to heat their homes.


I also wouldn't be concerned about the money for English lessons.  It's a leap of faith, and even were it a scam, how much money is at risk?  A couple hundred dollars?  It's peanuts.

  Hooray Boethius! You've got it in one For me all what you've said makes perfect sense. It's stands to reason that a large & poor country as Ukraine is not going to have perfect connection throughout yet some on here think it's perfect there for everyone. I agree with you on the money for English lessons, yeah it was about that, a bit less even. I thought like you thought, 'Am I going to risk impeding our relationship for money that is little to me?' The answer I arrived at is no I would be stupid to do that. In context it's a trifle compared to the opportunity of being in a loving relationship. Even I wouldn't be that tight as to risk that.

Admittedly the way I've written the situation someone behind a computer screen could just read the, 'met girl, paid out for typical cash cow dating stuff & is being milked' but this is not a girl from an agency, she is a girl who genuinely seems into me. The needs are just similar to some of the agency scene stuff but there is a perceiveable difference. It's not a play along by the girl, not the way she has been interacting with me.

[wallm]

Make sure she isn't using you as a mule. And make sure you aren't using the little head to think. Just be cautious. Don't dismiss the money as nothing. Imagine how many times you can have Spotted D**k and all the other weird stuff you consume. Hope it works out for you.

[ML]

Several posters here and in past threads have made comments such as: This gal is not an agency gal, not a dating website gal, I met her at grocery store, etc, etc.

But . . . the reality is that almost every gal who is thinking about finding a mate is on multiple dating/marriage websites and with an agency.

Just because you found her via one particular route means nothing in trying to distinguish her from gals available via another route . . . because she is also on those other routes.

[Muzh]

I also wouldn't be concerned about the money for English lessons.  It's a leap of faith, and even were it a scam, how much money is at risk?  A couple hundred dollars?  It's peanuts.

+1

[Boethius]

All romantic relationships are a leap of faith.

[Trenchcoat]

Make sure she isn't using you as a mule. And make sure you aren't using the little head to think. Just be cautious. Don't dismiss the money as nothing. Imagine how many times you can have Spotted D**k and all the other weird stuff you consume. Hope it works out for you.

Cheers Wall Nah, there doesn't seem to be any sign that she is more interest in moving to another country than interest in me. If anything she might see it as an imperfect solution since she'll be away from her family in Ukraine. Her family (does not have children) however are not necessarily reliant on her, or not at this stage, since she earns so little. So there is scope for her moving but I don't think its her prime motivating factor, she in fact asked me if I want to live in Ukraine, I told her I could not at the moment because of situation there. I would need to secure a independent source of income that could be maintained from a distance away for Ukraine to likely be viable long term which would take being longer apart from her than I would wish. End of the day even if it was a mule situation which I really can't see it as at all I wouldn't necessarily lose out depending on how I play it so its no big concern to me.

Money, well you can be unhappy doing the things you want to/could do with the money if it leaves you unhappy & lonely. If true love appears to be on the cards it would be silly to pass it over for another round of beers, etc is the way even a tight wad as I sees it

[Trenchcoat]

All romantic relationships are a leap of faith.

I agree with this also, after you've done due diligence prior to meeting, met up & everything seems to sound out & she seems on the level, genuinely in love & into you then to go on long term having doubts is ridiculous at some point you need to take a leap of faith & leave it to fate whether it works out or not.

Those guys that get a girl who put faith in her & she turns out to be a bad girl, a scammer are often just unfortunate, a lot of it is luck of the draw I think and most guys including myself go out there really wanting the real deal often first time off so are all too willing to buy into anything vaguely looking something like the real thing only for it to emerge later she was no good. Experience down the line helps but experience also tends to cost. Once your lucky enough to know a girl that is for real though, the others can be seen a truer light. 

[Muzh]

I agree with this also, after you've done due diligence prior to meeting, met up & everything seems to sound out & she seems on the level, genuinely in love & into you then to go on long term having doubts is ridiculous at some point you need to take a leap of faith & leave it to fate whether it works out or not.

LMFAO


I have a nice bridge on the south side of Manhattan for sale. Cheap.

Those guys that get a girl who put faith in her & she turns out to be a bad girl, a scammer are often just unfortunate, a lot of it is luck of the draw I think and most guys including myself go out there really wanting the real deal often first time off so [/size]are all too willing to buy into anything vaguely looking something like the real thing only for it to emerge later she was no good. Experience down the line helps but experience also tends to cost. Once your lucky enough to know a girl that is for real though, the others can be seen a truer light.

Right, like being genuinely in love & into you. 

[GQBlues]

I'm surprised you say that if you're married to one Muhz, or perhaps you've been married to a FSW so long you've forgotten what western women are like. The only way they are the same is that they both have the female form, well we hope they do, lol. From my experience and from the girl I'm with western women & FSW are totally different. FSW are a whole new refreshing world to me as a man from the west, feminine, friendly, soft (ok they can be a little direct but that's no problem, good actually) and very much into men, they have no hang ups or relationship issues so long as you're a decent guy & treat them decently. I'm absolutely delighted to be with the girl I'm now in a relationship with. In the west I had little luck with the ladies, even the ones that showed interest were playing me off against umpteen other guys they were also interested in. In the west women I found as difficult to interact with at times, standoffish, changeable demeanour/attitude, tick box marking of guys, holding little value for guys, sometimes even aggressive/hostile attitude towards guys even though they were apparently straight, some girls could be cold as ice, party/social scene obsessed. Bigtex you are doing yourself a tremendous favour to yourself by going for a FSW, women there are so much better than in the west, far better quality all around and of course quantity. Once you get over there and meet up with one, or some you'll see what I mean.

 

...and unlike their western sisters, FSUWs have 3 huge tits with silver dollar nipples!

TC, you finally got laid after a long dry spell. At this point, that's all the reality you have to go by. Love has nothing to do with it. It's OK just don't lose yourself.

May you get laid plenty more from here on in. Congrats!

[Trenchcoat]

LMFAO


I have a nice bridge on the south side of Manhattan for sale. Cheap.

What's that supposed to mean? 

You seem quite skeptical Muzh, why so?