Caring dating and introduction agencies in St. Petersburg, or pickup buddies ?

[msmob]

I only tease those that I like.

 

I was asked to  name some British dishes - for Russians -  and 'Toad in the Hole'  was the first one that came in my head ..... they thought that we ate toads ....   

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toad_in_the_hole

[LAman]

I'm guessing you might be not getting the point ..  or are you in Trench's 'camp' ? ..

In my own camp!! ))

If you want me to spell it................Money= sex!!!!

[msmob]

In my own camp!! ))

If you want me to spell it................Money= sex!!!!

There was no need to confirm you had failed to 'get it' - still..

[Boethius]

I really have no words to this... Please stop. You are coming off as a complete wanker. I am not shocked you have not found a woman in the UK. The above screed is one of the most anti-women B.S. I have read in a long time. Seriously, how do you protect your knuckles as they are dragging on the ground?

Trench, if your girl ever read that she would dump you in a New York minute (unless she is looking for your passport). I would beg you to stop posting this crap, but you cannot help yourself. Also it is somewhat entertaining, almost like you are trolling us.

I actually laughed out loud at some of the more ridiculous assertions.

Trench, if you don't plan on importing Kherson girl, how are you going to have a relationship?  Are  you really planning to move to Ukraine, land of the alpha male?  You would be eaten alive there.

As for people not marrying now, it has nothing to do with poverty.  People were poorer there in the 1930's and after the war, into the 1960's.  They lived in communalkas, with families of eight living in a room of 12 square meters.  In the 1960's and 1970's, they waited anywhere from 10 to 20 years for their own apartments.  And yet they still married, and had children. 

Now, there are no institutions in the country that support the family.  It is not poverty or alcoholism.  There is no gestalt to support the family.  That is why people aren't marrying.

In the West, the issue is different.  It partly cost.  When half your income is given to the government in taxes, and you are running from a daycare to a job, back at the end of the day to daycare, you run home to cook dinner, and start that all over again, what type of quality of life do you have?  Yes, our government structures life for the convenience of people, and I don't begrudge taxation, but the confiscatory levels of taxation that exist don't make life comfortable for raising a family at a middle class level of income.  That, not feminism, is why family life in the West is in trouble.

[Boethius]

Boe,
Any American/Russian/Canadian/Australian/Brazilian can prepare roast beef
equally well. Anyone else can prepare their boiled beef equally as badly.

By that token, I can prepare pasta, pizza, and ossobucco as well as in Italy.  In some cases, better.

[Trenchcoat]

I actually laughed out loud at some of the more ridiculous assertions.

Trench, if you don't plan on importing Kherson girl, how are you going to have a relationship?  Are  you really planning to move to Ukraine, land of the alpha male?  You would be eaten alive there.

As for people not marrying now, it has nothing to do with poverty.  People were poorer there in the 1930's and after the war, into the 1960's.  They lived in communalkas, with families of eight living in a room of 12 square meters.  In the 1960's and 1970's, they waited anywhere from 10 to 20 years for their own apartments.  And yet they still married, and had children. 

Now, there are no institutions in the country that support the family.  It is not poverty or alcoholism.  There is no gestalt to support the family.  That is why people aren't marrying.

In the West, the issue is different.  It partly cost.  When half your income is given to the government in taxes, and you are running from a daycare to a job, back at the end of the day to daycare, you run home to cook dinner, and start that all over again, what type of quality of life do you have?  Yes, our government structures life for the convenience of people, and I don't begrudge taxation, but the confiscatory levels of taxation that exist don't make life comfortable for raising a family at a middle class level of income.  That, not feminism, is why family life in the West is in trouble.

Most men looking abroad would disagree with this and there is plenty of evidence of problems with alcoholism, gender demographic disparity. Its not a view I have made up but commonly out there in the FSU dating scene, by agencies, men looking, men out there, media, unbiased onlookers, etc.

I have my own ideas about way forward with girl, but lets say I am seriously considering a move out of the UK. Getting a girl into the UK can be an ordeal and while yes I would be willing to do it to start a relationship off in the UK I have my qualms. The lack of support for marriage, divorce deal, feminism, men on the prowl just makes me think I could be giving myself an ordeal and in doing so put our relationship in the thick of it.

I used to know a Polish guy who brought his wife over here, beautiful he termed her. Anyway, he used to work nights and while he was working nights some other guy had his dick up his wife. He later found out about this was obviously distraught and a separation occurred. This is what UK culture can do and no doubt US too. Now I know you are going to say it can happen anywhere and yes it can but social values and culture in the west tend to make it more so.

Now check out this link from a solicitor in the UK, it may help to put you in the picture:

Link: http://www.winstonsolicitors.co.uk/can-i-divorce-uk-if-i-got-married-abroad.html

I love the bit where it says, "England has been dubbed the “divorce capital of Europe” because of the wide ranging discretionary powers that the English court has and it is well known that the English courts can be very generous to wives who are pursuing financial claims." Says it all really.

[HoundDaddyLee]

Most men looking abroad would disagree with this and there is plenty of evidence of problems with alcoholism, gender demographic disparity. Its not a view I have made up but commonly out there in the FSU dating scene, by agencies, men looking, men out there, media, unbiased onlookers, etc.

I have my own ideas about way forward with girl, but lets say I am seriously considering a move out of the UK. Getting a girl into the UK can be an ordeal and while yes I would be willing to do it to start a relationship off in the UK I have my qualms. The lack of support for marriage, divorce deal, feminism, men on the prowl just makes me think I could be giving myself an ordeal and in doing so put our relationship in the thick of it.

I used to know a Polish guy who brought his wife over here, beautiful he termed her. Anyway, he used to work nights and while he was working nights some other guy had his dick up his wife. He later found out about this was obviously distraught and a separation occurred. This is what UK culture can do and no doubt US too. Now I know you are going to say it can happen anywhere and yes it can but social values and culture in the west tend to make it more so.

Now check out this link from a solicitor in the UK, it may help to put you in the picture:

Link: http://www.winstonsolicitors.co.uk/can-i-divorce-uk-if-i-got-married-abroad.html

I love the bit where it says, "England has been dubbed the “divorce capital of Europe” because of the wide ranging discretionary powers that the English court has and it is well known that the English courts can be very generous to wives who are pursuing financial claims." Says it all really.

Trench,


If you are worried that your girl will stray if you bring her to the UK, then she is not the girl for you. Why are you having trouble understanding this? Going to another country is not going to solve this. How do you know that some Ukrainian stud isn't "putting his dick up in her" while you are apart? I get the impression based on your fear of scams that you have major trust issues. You really need to fix this or you will never be happy. Unless you plan to lock up your wife once married.


I really feel sorry for Kherson girl if this how you behave. Most women do not find jealousy an attractive trait. You come off as a controlling, low-self esteem teenager. Man I want to be a fly on the wall the first time Kherson girl goes off on you. That light at the end of the tunnel is not Sun...


HDL

[Boethius]

Most men looking abroad would disagree with this and there is plenty of evidence of problems with alcoholism, gender demographic disparity. Its not a view I have made up but commonly out there in the FSU dating scene, by agencies, men looking, men out there, media, unbiased onlookers, etc.

Of course most men would disagree.  They want to believe it is their prowess as lovers/partners, rather than their wallets, that make them attractive.  But, they're not going to France, or Switzerland for wives, or even Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Slovakia, Bulgaria, or Romania, are they?  Heck, they're not even going to Latvia, Lithuania, or Estonia, and now, rarely even to Russia.  The focus is predominantly in the basket case country of the region.

The gender disparity is not between young men and women.  In fact, to age 31, men outnumber women.  The age gap doesn't really hit until women reach their fifties.  My unbiased research comes from the UN (2015 was their last study on the issue), not some schmo who doesn't speak the language walking around a Ukrainian city, or agencies who will also tell you UW are "family oriented" and (the laughable claim) docile.

I have my own ideas about way forward with girl, but lets say I am seriously considering a move out of the UK. Getting a girl into the UK can be an ordeal and while yes I would be willing to do it to start a relationship off in the UK I have my qualms. The lack of support for marriage, divorce deal, feminism, men on the prowl just makes me think I could be giving myself an ordeal and in doing so put our relationship in the thick of it.

I used to know a Polish guy who brought his wife over here, beautiful he termed her. Anyway, he used to work nights and while he was working nights some other guy had his dick up his wife. He later found out about this was obviously distraught and a separation occurred. This is what UK culture can do and no doubt US too. Now I know you are going to say it can happen anywhere and yes it can but social values and culture in the west tend to make it more so.

Let's see.  When I lived in Kyiv, married Ukrainian neighbour in her twenties was bringing her boss home to screw while her husband was at work.  Discovered when MIL walked in on them.  Another neighbour's mother was sleeping with the neighbour's husband.  A third neighbour was found dead.  She and her lover, both married to others, were having sex on a construction site and fell through the boards they were lying on, into a pit, both killed.  Neither of their surviving spouses would claim the bodies to bury them.  My husband walked in on a married coworker having sex with another married coworker in a "shed" (for lack of a better description) where supplies were stored.  They had "locked" it with a pencil, which of course fell when he opened the door.  A family friend was telling us he suspected his wife was cheating on him, so he told his wife he was going to the village, but went to the movies, then quietly opened his apartment door to find his wife and her lover, a family friend, in bed together.

Our nephew recently was telling the better half about a neighbour who came home to find his wife in bed with another man - not an unusual story there.  The unusual part was that the wife and the lover threw the neighbour off the balcony, breaking his back.

Then there are the stories of foreign husbands befalling tragedy when visiting their Ukrainian wives' families in Ukraine.  One is fairly well known, a multmillionaire who was hit by a speeding car.  A UK inquest has found the grieving widow, now married to another sap UK man, arranged his death.  There was the case of the American who was murdered in his wife's Odesa apartment, though he was in perfect health, leaving her the main beneficiary of his multimillion dollar estate, the American killed in his Odesa hotel by his Ukrainian wife, and the American husband who "slipped in the shower", leaving his home to his Russian wife and her newly arrived Russian lover.  Yup, there is never any adultery among these paragons of virtue and utter devotion to their men. 

Now, don't get me wrong - I am not suggesting every UW or RW will go on to cheat on her husband, or murder him, nor even that a minority will do so. I'm just pointing out that people are people the world over, and to believe that because you have a foreign wife and intend on keeping her out of that den of inequity known as the UK, she will be less likely to cheat or, God forbid, kill you, is naive in the extreme.

I love the bit where it says, "England has been dubbed the “divorce capital of Europe” because of the wide ranging discretionary powers that the English court has and it is well known that the English courts can be very generous to wives who are pursuing financial claims." Says it all really.

UK divorce settlements are no more generous than in most North American jurisdictions.  Yet here, men do go on to have normal lives even after divorce.

[Trenchcoat]

Trench,


If you are worried that your girl will stray if you bring her to the UK, then she is not the girl for you. Why are you having trouble understanding this? Going to another country is not going to solve this. How do you know that some Ukrainian stud isn't "putting his dick up in her" while you are apart? I get the impression based on your fear of scams that you have major trust issues. You really need to fix this or you will never be happy. Unless you plan to lock up your wife once married.


I really feel sorry for Kherson girl if this how you behave. Most women do not find jealousy an attractive trait. You come off as a controlling, low-self esteem teenager. Man I want to be a fly on the wall the first time Kherson girl goes off on you. That light at the end of the tunnel is not Sun...


HDL

HDL, I trust her I just don't see the point in making stupid decisions and leaving yourself with your balls exposed for an easy kicking, well how is any FSW supposed to respect a guy that does that. From the divorce threads on here, many seem to be from men that have conceded their place as the man (as many WW expect) and handed control to the woman. The FSW then not seeing a man she is married to has ditched the guy. What I'm saying is FSW (and in fact even WW were they not socialized differently these days) at actually want a guy that is going to hold onto & protect his assets/resources/head of household position, its that what attracts them to him at least in part and on that one Boethius is partly right. I'm not saying all out gold digger but the position of the man as a provider is what many FSW admire in addition to any natural love.

[Boethius]

How would you know what WW want?  Been married to one?  Had a long sustaining relationship with one? Something tells me no, in fact, I have a suspicion you have never had a meaningful relationship with a woman, which is why you speak of the one you think you now have in an adolescent manner.  Furthermore, WW are not monolithic.

You also are making generalizations pulled from the air on why marriages fail.  We can't know why a marriage failed.  First, anything here is one sided, and therefore, incomplete.  Second, we don't know if what is posted is true.  Third, sometimes, even posters have not come to the realization of why their marriages failed.  Some will do the work to figure it out, others never will.  It could just be they grew apart.  We did have one poster who posted about his horrid ex Ukrainian wife, then she showed up and gave a completely different picture of their marriage, and why she left him.  He's now divorced from his second FSUW, and came here to complain about her as well.

There is no "control" in a real relationship.  Relationships where one partner is in control are always toxic.

[jone]

HDL, I trust her I just don't see the point in making stupid decisions and leaving yourself with your balls exposed for an easy kicking, well how is any FSW supposed to respect a guy that does that. From the divorce threads on here, many seem to be from men that have conceded their place as the man (as many WW expect) and handed control to the woman. The FSW then not seeing a man she is married to has ditched the guy. What I'm saying is FSW (and in fact even WW were they not socialized differently these days) at actually want a guy that is going to hold onto & protect his assets/resources/head of household position, its that what attracts them to him at least in part and on that one Boethius is partly right. I'm not saying all out gold digger but the position of the man as a provider is what many FSW admire in addition to any natural love.

Somehow, Trench, I cannot envision you ever being a partner to your spouse......

[HoundDaddyLee]

HDL, I trust her I just don't see the point in making stupid decisions and leaving yourself with your balls exposed for an easy kicking, well how is any FSW supposed to respect a guy that does that. From the divorce threads on here, many seem to be from men that have conceded their place as the man (as many WW expect) and handed control to the woman. The FSW then not seeing a man she is married to has ditched the guy. What I'm saying is FSW (and in fact even WW were they not socialized differently these days) at actually want a guy that is going to hold onto & protect his assets/resources/head of household position, its that what attracts them to him at least in part and on that one Boethius is partly right. I'm not saying all out gold digger but the position of the man as a provider is what many FSW admire in addition to any natural love.

Wow. So your view is "the man" is in charge. My parents were married in 1947 (considered the good old days by misogynists). They stayed married until my Mom's death 42 years later.  My Father worked and my Mom stayed home once my sister was born and I came along 15 years later. My Mom ran the house. I couldn't have asked for a better family to have been brought up in. I remember few arguments. My parents marriage was a partnership and their primary at home work was raising their children.  They had joint bank accounts and were both owners of their home.


It is interesting that both my sister and I are divorced and for very similar reasons. She is happily remarried and I hope to do the same. When I get married it will be a partnership, not the dictatorship you want. Trust me on this, FSU women are not the type to be controlled. She will expect to run the home while you are out working, or (GADS) she may want to work and earn her own money! I get the impression you will want to keep Kherson girl locked away to be your at home mail/cook/sexual play thing (with a very small allowance). Better start trolling the antique shops for a chastity belt. I imagine they are hard to come by now a days. 


I think Boe hit the nail on the head. Kherson girl is the first girl you have shagged and you are acting like a 16 year old boy. If you are exposing this attitude to her, trust us, she is not seeing a "man". You know that light at the end of tunnel you are seeing is now sounding its horn.


If it was just a couple of people warning you off, you could blow it off. But when 100% of people are telling you that you are an idiot, you should listen. 


HDL


P.S. Really you should read what you have written. If your Mom is still alive or if you have a sister, let them read it. Or maybe the spouse of a good friend. I get it, you don't "know" us. But unless you live in a community of cavemen, most people with common sense would look at your posts as lunacy. Looking forward to your reply. 

[Trenchcoat]

Wow. So your view is "the man" is in charge. My parents were married in 1947 (considered the good old days by misogynists). They stayed married until my Mom's death 42 years later.  My Father worked and my Mom stayed home once my sister was born and I came along 15 years later. My Mom ran the house. I couldn't have asked for a better family to have been brought up in. I remember few arguments. My parents marriage was a partnership and their primary at home work was raising their children.  They had joint bank accounts and were both owners of their home.


It is interesting that both my sister and I are divorced and for very similar reasons. She is happily remarried and I hope to do the same. When I get married it will be a partnership, not the dictatorship you want. Trust me on this, FSU women are not the type to be controlled. She will expect to run the home while you are out working, or (GADS) she may want to work and earn her own money! I get the impression you will want to keep Kherson girl locked away to be your at home mail/cook/sexual play thing (with a very small allowance). Better start trolling the antique shops for a chastity belt. I imagine they are hard to come by now a days. 


I think Boe hit the nail on the head. Kherson girl is the first girl you have shagged and you are acting like a 16 year old boy. If you are exposing this attitude to her, trust us, she is not seeing a "man". You know that light at the end of tunnel you are seeing is now sounding its horn.


If it was just a couple of people warning you off, you could blow it off. But when 100% of people are telling you that you are an idiot, you should listen. 


HDL


P.S. Really you should read what you have written. If your Mom is still alive or if you have a sister, let them read it. Or maybe the spouse of a good friend. I get it, you don't "know" us. But unless you live in a community of cavemen, most people with common sense would look at your posts as lunacy. Looking forward to your reply. 

I agree a relationship is a partnership and I'm not trying to control her, I wouldn't do that. All I'm saying is that there are specific male & females roles in a good relationship just as you have outlined. In the west much of this has gotten lost and hence why the high divorce statistics and problems with relationships - we go to the FSU looking for a relationship for a reason, because we can't get what we want at home, why else go all that distance, time, trouble & expense. In the west you mention partnership and feminists have skewed the meaning into non-gender defined tasks/roles. This messes it up as we both need the other to fulfill the needs that the other gender has wanting i.e the female cooks, washes, cleans & may indeed do some sort of job too, the man does diy, practical tasks, most often primary breadwinner. Now some variation in all this is fine depending on the couple but generally the two are split this way in a good relationship and both are happiest with their division, until off course feminists come along and bemoan how women 'aren't there to was men's undercrackers', etc and spread bitterness around where previous there was harmony and contentment.

[Boethius]

You really are clueless. 


Women still do the bulk of the housework.  Yes, even in the UK, and yes, even when both spouses have full time jobs.


http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37941191


A happy spouse is not going to be influenced by those "evil feminists" intent on ruining an otherwise happy marriage.  Unhappy ones?  Possibly.

[Trenchcoat]

You really are clueless. 


Women still do the bulk of the housework.  Yes, even in the UK, and yes, even when both spouses have full time jobs.


http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37941191


A happy spouse is not going to be influenced by those "evil feminists" intent on ruining an otherwise happy marriage.  Unhappy ones?  Possibly.

I don't know Boethius you seem to be constantly after an all out Bitchfest on here. You can either accept or reject what I say and either of us can get sources to back up what we're saying.

I think you have been socialized with western feminist values and you don't realize it as it is all you have known. You see things through the eyes of a western woman not a western man and there is a great deal of difference in that. Society in the west is not kind to many western men we are assailed from all sides. You have the same 'aggression' towards me here as many WW have towards there men, boyfriends, husbands, etc. All a result of feminists aggressive push for equality in the workplace. I'm not sure how you could go about looking at yourself and really re-evaluating what you have been brought up with. Yes a FSW would stand her ground on certain things but there is no conflict/aggression to move into the others gender role as that's not how they are geared. Just try looking at the problems WM have these days and that may help you understand the situation better. Plus fill out your profile, no-one has a clue of where you are coming from if your an anonymous phantom. 

[msmob]

I don't know Boethius you seem to be constantly after an all out Bitchfest on here. You can either accept or reject what I say and either of us can get sources to back up what we're saying.

I think ....

NO .. you don't .. IF you did, you wouldn't keep posting BS.

Boethius has been consistently and patiently trying to help you .. You've even managed to exasperate and may possibly be alienating her.

Your theories are wacky and I beg you to wake up as otherwise you will be one of those guys who fails and claim he was 'scammed' ... then disappear

[HoundDaddyLee]

I don't know Boethius you seem to be constantly after an all out Bitchfest on here. You can either accept or reject what I say and either of us can get sources to back up what we're saying.

I think you have been socialized with western feminist values and you don't realize it as it is all you have known. You see things through the eyes of a western woman not a western man and there is a great deal of difference in that. Society in the west is not kind to many western men we are assailed from all sides. You have the same 'aggression' towards me here as many WW have towards there men, boyfriends, husbands, etc. All a result of feminists aggressive push for equality in the workplace. I'm not sure how you could go about looking at yourself and really re-evaluating what you have been brought up with. Yes a FSW would stand her ground on certain things but there is no conflict/aggression to move into the others gender role as that's not how they are geared. Just try looking at the problems WM have these days and that may help you understand the situation better. Plus fill out your profile, no-one has a clue of where you are coming from if your an anonymous phantom.

Soooooooooo, women who do the same job as men, shouldn't have equality (equal pay)? I am a life long Republican and even I believe in equal pay for equal work. Boe and I tend be on opposite sides on many issues. Moby and I are as well. Yet, on this one issue you have united us in realizing you (Trench) are a clueless twit when it comes to women and relationships.


Seriously, you should move to a Sharia law country where you can keep your woman (women) under your thumb.  Funny, that my girl didn't seem to have an issue with me doing the dishes while she was at work when I was visiting earlier in the month. Based on your "extensive" understanding of FSUW, she would think less of me as that would be a weakness. Instead it got me hugs and kisses and appreciation. It is 2017, Trench, not 1817. You can be a "manly man" and do some laundry and run a vacuum. You want a maid, cook and sex toy, not a wife/partner. Hell, maybe she wants to be your maid, cook and sex toy. If so, congratulations! But I doubt it.


HDL.


P.S. Hey Trenchie are you feeling the rails beneath your feet vibrating yet? Is that light getting brighter?

[Trenchcoat]

NO .. you don't .. IF you did, you wouldn't keep posting BS.

Boethius has been consistently and patiently trying to help you .. You've even managed to exasperate and may possibly be alienating her.

Your theories are wacky and I beg you to wake up as otherwise you will be one of those guys who fails and claim he was 'scammed' ... then disappear

Funny there is plenty of attacking of my relationship here yet the funny thing is so far all is going very well between the two of us. No one is guaranteed anything of course yet I had quite a number of members on here suggest that I would not get a FSW and this search is not for me yet here I am too the contrary. Now I have forum members saying my relationship and any possible marriage will not work, I can't guarantee that it will no-one can but I'm pretty sure I can make a good run at it contrary again to what some forum members here think. My postings here my look of track to some on here, many even but I would suggest that if your with the right girl then even if there were a difference of stance it can still work. I think the practicalities and inter-relationship that a couple have can bypass a position that might seem impractical to some. 

[Anotherkiwi]

Funny there is plenty of attacking of my relationship here yet the funny thing is so far all is going very well between the two of us. No one is guaranteed anything of course yet I had quite a number of members on here suggest that I would not get a FSW and this search is not for me yet here I am too the contrary. Now I have forum members saying my relationship and any possible marriage will not work, I can't guarantee that it will no-one can but I'm pretty sure I can make a good run at it contrary again to what some forum members here think.

Firstly, despite what you think, most people on here actually hope that all relationships which surface on this forum DO work out - whatever the criticisms which may be levelled during the "process."  That even applies to you, despite your attitudes indicating that you apparently still live in a cave far from civilisation.

There would appear to be a fairly simple way to find out how well your Ukrainian friend is in tune with you - show her this forum, and ask her to read your posts over the last few months (assuming that her English is up to the job).  If she's happy with what you've written, and agrees in general terms with your attitude, I can't see you having too many problems in your future relationship.

My postings here my may look of off track to some on here, many even but I would suggest that if your you're with the right girl then even if there were a difference of stance it can still work. I think the practicalities and inter-relationship that a couple have can bypass a position that might seem impractical to some.

Fixed for clarity, so that anyone reading has a better idea of what you're writing.  I still think that you're trying to push the proverbial uphill, but it's YOUR life!

The only comment I would make here is to echo Boethius and HDL - don't pontificate about stuff that you know nothing about.  Sure, write about the things that you've experienced first-hand in Ukraine - it's always interesting to read trip reports, even though there have been so few in the last three or four years - but DON'T try to second-guess people who live there.  Their lives and attitudes are their own, and you will NEVER know more than they do about Ukraine - in the same way that you would presume to know more about YOUR own country than those people from overseas who are just visiting, or are moving to live there for the first time.

[Boethius]

I don't know Boethius you seem to be constantly after an all out Bitchfest on here. You can either accept or reject what I say and either of us can get sources to back up what we're saying.

Please find a source that says men do as much housework as do women.  I doubt you will find one.

I think you have been socialized with western feminist values and you don't realize it as it is all you have known. You see things through the eyes of a western woman not a western man and there is a great deal of difference in that. Society in the west is not kind to many western men we are assailed from all sides. You have the same 'aggression' towards me here as many WW have towards there men, boyfriends, husbands, etc. All a result of feminists aggressive push for equality in the workplace. I'm not sure how you could go about looking at yourself and really re-evaluating what you have been brought up with. Yes a FSW would stand her ground on certain things but there is no conflict/aggression to move into the others gender role as that's not how they are geared. Just try looking at the problems WM have these days and that may help you understand the situation better. Plus fill out your profile, no-one has a clue of where you are coming from if your an anonymous phantom.

Yes, yes.  Western society is so difficult on men, who run most of the major public companies, are the majorities in most legislative bodies and the judiciary, and overwhelmingly run the financial sector.  Those poor, poor, oppressed WM!

What is a "gender role"?  Is a woman working a "gender role"?  Most women would love to be home with their children.  But economics means that is beyond the reach of most.  And then to top it off, they get to come home, cook dinner, feed their families, do a load of laundry, clean up the dinner dishes, bathe their children, read them stories, and then start it all over again in the morning.  That is the life of the "average" Western "feminist" with children.

Now, if you want a "traditional" Ukrainian wife, you better hand over your entire paycheque each month.  Because in a traditional Ukrainian household, money is managed by the woman.  She does all the shopping, for everything from groceries to clothing to pricing out her husband's vices (usually booze and cigarettes).  He will receive either a pack of cigarettes a day/week/whatever, or a small stipend for transportation and cigarettes.  And if he wants more, he better explain why he needs an extra $50.  That is the average traditional Ukrainian family.

As for my own family, you know jack about me.  I worked 12 hour days as I was the primary breadwinner in the family - down to about 10 now.  My day started with cooking breakfast for my children, in addition to their breakfasts, I made and packed their lunches.  My husband was home with them before they started school, so he cooked a hot lunch for them then.  I made dinner usually 5 times a week.  My husband cooks breakfast on Sundays, and usually makes dinner on Tuesdays.  Fridays we eat out.   I do all the indoor  housework - laundry,  cleaning, dusting, vacuuming, scrubbing floors, windows.  My husband takes out the garbage, mows the lawn, shovels snow, and tends to a garden though truth be told, I go weed it and hill the potatoes, as I grew up doing this and know how to do it, he tends to be a little "looser" on the requirements for weeding.  Typically, when my children were  young, I was up early, did an hour of work, cooked, drove one of them to school (when they attended different schools, otherwise, my husband drove them, and the one I didn't drive), in the office by 8:45, home at 5:30 or 6:00, and usually did 90 minutes of work before bed.  On top of that, once my children were in elementary school, one played hockey, which meant two practices a week while my husband was at work, so I was driving him all over town to practice, one was on the ski team, which was twice a week, at times overlapping with hockey, and one took ballet.  They also all took music lessons.  In the summer, they all took golfing lessons twice a week, though that was at a private club only 20 minutes away, and swimming lessons.

These days, two are grown and I still cook dinner, but they are mostly independent, one away at school, the other on an independent schedule, so he treats his home as a drop in centre.  My third is still in school, so I still cook his breakfast and make his dinner (he doesn't eat lunch, says he isn't hungry). 

I also always paid all the bills (more of a hassle before they could be paid online) and managed our finances in general.  I outsourced investments, as I wanted expertise and don't mind paying to have

Most women doing the same work hire help - nannies during the day, and maids to clean, but we didn't want anyone else raising our children, even partly, my parents also pitched in, and we were willing to make the sacrifices otherwise to do so.   I didn't want anyone doing a subpar job cleaning my home or worse, using the same rags to clean my floors as my counters and sinks, which is why I never hired a cleaning person.  However, I speak to a lot of women in my privileged position, and most have had the same struggles I have in balancing everything and ensuring their kids have a lot of experiences growing up.  Most don't bake or iron, many don't clean, but most cook dinner, and almost all had the same lessons to attend (hockey is ubiquitous here, and we used to take the kids skating on weekends as well).  That is the life of the average Western female with children, raised with "feminist values" no matter what you think.

[Boethius]

Funny there is plenty of attacking of my relationship here yet the funny thing is so far all is going very well between the two of us. No one is guaranteed anything of course yet I had quite a number of members on here suggest that I would not get a FSW and this search is not for me yet here I am too the contrary. Now I have forum members saying my relationship and any possible marriage will not work, I can't guarantee that it will no-one can but I'm pretty sure I can make a good run at it contrary again to what some forum members here think. My postings here my look of track to some on here, many even but I would suggest that if your with the right girl then even if there were a difference of stance it can still work. I think the practicalities and inter-relationship that a couple have can bypass a position that might seem impractical to some.

No one here has attacked your relationship, as it is, and no one has stated it won't work.  What has been pointed out is that you are presenting as a self centred wanker. 


I second Kiwi.  If you are in a real relationship, you will have no issues with her reading anything you post here.  In fact, it's probably one of the best ways, in your absence, for her to learn English, as she will be interested in everything you write.

[ML]

As for my own family, you know jack about me.  I worked 12 hour days as I was the primary breadwinner in the family - down to about 10 now.  My day started, every day since our first child was born, with cooking breakfast for my children . . . .

But Boe, you didn't detail out what you did in your spare time !!  :-)

[Boethius]

LOL.  Post here when the better half is at work or I'm printing documents.  I made salmon today, but youngest son doesn't like salmon, so I am making him shrimp creole, at his request.  Four minutes until it's ready.

[Boethius]

PS - I've also been an insomniac most of my life.  My father generally functioned on four hours sleep, and I get about 4 1/2 most days, about 7 on weekends.  But when I sleep, I am dead to the world, I can sleep through anything.

[ML]

I am the opposite.  I need 9 hours of sleep each day; although I don't always get it.  And I am easily awakened.  Can't sleep at all on airplanes, even when exhausted.