Best laid plans...

[Momus]

Maybe I missed it but I am curious as to how this Internet romance got it's start.  I gather you didn't write to a 22 y.o. girl initially, because you've made the point here quite clear that you thought that was too young for you.  Did you place an on-line advert somewhere and she broke the ice and wrote to you first?  If you placed an ad, did you specify a target age group?  I'd consider it a red flag if she ignored your age group requirements and wrote to you anyhow.

Someone is very perceptive. Yeah, I'm on Elena's Models. She wrote to me. And while I haven't been writing to any women younger than 25, my profile just lists "to 35."

Also, is she living in Russia or Ukraine?

She's in Baku. It's not that it's the hinterlands, it's that there just aren't many appropriate "backups" there. First, there just aren't that many women in Baku on the sites I've looked at, period. Second, Luda is ethnic Russian and non-Muslim, and as others have stated, I'd rather not invite more culture shock than absolutely necessary. Heh...Turboguy is on EM and has visited Baku. He can probably identify her at this point...

You've mentioned that she wants to move your personal communications onto a webcam, frankly, I find that to be somewhat unusual.  You also mentioned that her letters were well written, in English.  That is also very unusual for a girl so young who is not from a major commerce center and working in a job which requires a high level of English.  They study English in school, but that level of English proficiency in not usually attained with simple school work.  IOW; who has she been practicing her English with?  One of the things which most often confound Russian English learners is the articles of speech, i.e., the definitive *the*, *of*, and *a*, are not present in Russian, and it is not uncommon for Russians, even with years of English speaking backgrounds to make untidy grammar mistakes because of this. 

I was surprised by the webcam bit, too, but I'm not going to stress over it at this point. I'm sure I'll get more details if we continue to correspond, but I think she's from a fairly prosperous family. I know that her mother had a long career in government that sounded like it was a considerably high-ranking post. I also know that her mother is in her 50s, and so of course that career wasn't built in the new Azerbaijan...I suspect there might be an interesting story here. It's all speculation at this point, but I won't be at all surprised to learn that her family isn't all that popular in Azerbaijan these days.

As for the English, it's good but not fluent. She makes her share of mistakes, but writes well enough that expression, as well as communication, is possible. That's better than most, I'm finding. But yeah, whether she's a scammer or not, as I said before I suspect she's had some practice with this.

Be very, very careful with this one my friend.

That's always good advice. As I said, whether it's the usual story or a new one, there's probably an interesting story here.

[Momus]

Momus,
You poor baby!  Such problems!!!!  Having a 22 year old hottie stalking you on the net!!  (Now if that aint the most ridiculous thing I ever heard, go show her photo to your buddies and ask fro their sympathy!)

Hey! I said I'd quit whining!

OK, enough comedy.  What would you do if this "Luda" hit on you in a bar?  On the street?  Or any where locally?  I know for sure that you would not blow her off.  More than likely you would pursue the conversation and see where it led.  Do the same thing with your Russian Luda.  You can write down a list of rules and specifications that your future wife MUST fulfill or you can just set out to have fun and meet some interesting women.  Where that will take you, who the hell knows?  BUT YOUR SURE GONNA HAVE ONE HELL OF A LOT OF FUN DOING IT!

Okay, there's one vote for "screw the rules, go with the flow." And from an OMB, no less! Thanks for the encouragement, Ken. I'll try to stop overanalyzing but still proceed with caution.

[PeeWee]

Hey! I said I'd quit whining!

Okay, there's one vote for "screw the rules, go with the flow." And from an OMB, no less! Thanks for the encouragement, Ken. I'll try to stop overanalyzing but still proceed with caution.

I had thought that Elena trys here hardest to keep her agency free from scammers. I'd say that the odds are that she would not be a scammer but there is that cautions percent to remember. If she is a scammer then I do not think that she will remain long on Elena's catalog. How long has she been listed in the cataloge. And why not write to Elena and ask her what she knows about this lady?

Peewee

[BillyB]

Momus,

You let the cat out of the bag. She's 22 on Elena's models living in Baku. She doesn't look like scammer material based on her photo. Don't worry about anybody stealing her, she hasn't made a commitment to you yet.

Call her often to see if you can hold a conversation with her. If not, then move on. I wouldn't worry about the web cam thing unless it costs money. Money to communicate is not the issue but it's the fact she's probably asking all men to web cam for money.

Need backup if you decide to go to Azerbaijan? For $99 you can get all the contact info you want at Bride.ru. Contact your backup of course before arriving. Here's a sample of the women in Azerbaijan:

http://find.bride.ru/cgi-bin/ph/find.pl?since=&gal_gold=1&height_min=&height_max=&weight_min=&weight_max=&age_min=&age_max=40&country=Azerbaijan

[KenC]

Okay, there's one vote for "screw the rules, go with the flow." And from an OMB, no less! Thanks for the encouragement, Ken. I'll try to stop overanalyzing but still proceed with caution.

Momus,
It is very easy to "overanalyze" these RW will all of our help!  Every breath the poor girl takes (and you report back to us) will bring another potential "red flag" out of someone's over active imagination.  Just remember this:  They are women!  And all that is good and all that is bad goes with that title.  Irrational behavior?  Hmm, ever know an American woman to act irrational?   So she has a webcam.  OK, that is a little odd, but I have one sitting in the drawer that cost about 10 bucks.  That is certainly affordable even by Russian standards.  I would think that her offering to do the web chat is a good thing.  At least you will be able to see her and her actions and know you are not talking to "fat Yuri."  Play out your hand with her and see where it goes.  If she is playing you, it will become apparent sooner or later.  Move quickly to phone calls as they are much more personal IMO.

Where I see guys get into trouble is when they constantly make excuses for a woman's bad behavior because they are too caught up in the relationship to see the writing on the wall.  It is usually men that have limited experience with women and just don't know any better.
KenC

[Momus]

Momus,

You let the cat out of the bag. She's 22 on Elena's models living in Baku. She doesn't look like scammer material based on her photo. Don't worry about anybody stealing her, she hasn't made a commitment to you yet.

Yeah, Billy, I knew it wouldn't take any great amount of detective work to figure out who she was. I'm not in the least bit worried about someone "stealing" her! I don't even know her! Hell, if it doesn't go anywhere with us, I hope the good words I've written about her here will bring her some more prospects. But I probably shouldn't be speaking about her on a public board when it's so easy to identify her. If it were me, I'd be pissed. So, no more details about my correspondence with "Luda."

[BillyB]

Momus,

Don't sweat it, you're a likable guy and you haven't been in any arguments with anyone. If anything she should be flattered you're thinking about making an exception for her since she's out of your age range. She should be understanding that you're trying to find the right woman, not just any woman if she reads this. You've got nothing to be ashamed about.

One thing I like about bride.ru is that the women put up their profile on their own without agencies pressuring them. They say what they want and list the age requirements they're comfortable with in a man. If you search bride.ru, you might find a familiar face and can compare and understand what I'm talking about when it comes to age requirement.

[jb]

OK, Momus, that one is on you.  You didn't specify a lower age limit on your advert, and left everything open to those women 35 and below.  She's less than 35, therefore she thinks she's cool with writing to you. 

Yeah, I'm on Elena's Models. She wrote to me.

While EM has a pretty good reputation, I go ahead and mention this because 95% of all scams are initiated by someone using pictures of pretty young girls being mass mailed to men's ads from whatever source they can be harvested.  I always flinch whenever I hear of a man placing an internet advertisement because I know he's inviting trouble.  That's why the phone calls are so important.

My Russian wife and I have been together, (dating, engaged, and now married) for about 7 or 8 years now and I can attest that Ken's statement that Russian women are just women is absolutely on the money.  Do not expect some different animal, they are just women, they have all the same strengths and weaknesses as any other woman under the sun.

Your posts indicate you are pretty astute and aware, I won't worry about you so much as I have for others here.

[BillyB]

Momus,

I agree with JB that when a man posts a profile, he has a much higher risk being scammed. I didn't post a profile anywhere, partially for that reason and the reason that I want to choose rather than be chosen.

Did you a favor. "Luda" has been on the internet for at least 8 months and her name is clean. First and Last. Check your PM's I'm sending you one. The info I found didn't cost me a cent but one can find a lot on the internet.

[Momus]

If you search bride.ru, you might find a familiar face and can compare and understand what I'm talking about when it comes to age requirement.

Very good pointer, Billy, and thanks for the PM.

[Turboguy]

I know it is supposed to be a woman's perogative to change her mind but I will change mine anyway.   If she is from Baku, I would not be any more surprised for her to have a webcam and home computer than I would with a gal from New Jersey.   Money flows like water in Baku.  I have never seen so many luxury cars and construction in my life and it is not limited to the few luckly new Russians or in this case new Azi's   

The Russians in Baku however are a minority and to some extent are outsiders.  They can still make good money but are not really at the inner circle of things.  The only real Russian I met there was a laborer working for the Azi's.  There is a reason for Russians to want to be somewhere else.

You can throw the webcam red flag in the trash.  The other good thing is that you will know she is real. 

My suggestion since you seem to like her a lot is when you are ready to make a trip go for about 3 days.   You can go back if you really hit it off and the backup plans are not good there.  Take the rest of your trip and go to Ukraine and meet a lot of gals.  I landed in Kiev on my way to Baku.  It won't be a big deal to lay over there.  I have made a lot of trips to meet one gal and it never has worked out.  I never really told the full story of my last trip but it was the biggest disaster of my life.  I had said a bunch of times I would never make a trip to meet one gal and believe me it is a good thing to avoid.

At the time I went to Baku I looked for some gals to meet and it was not an easy place to find good pickings.   There are some there but I think if things don't work out you will be better spending your time elsewhere.  A short side trip won't be any big deal so you can't loose a lot.

One other comments.  Lugansk is famous for Scammers.  I have never heard of one in Baku.

[catzenmouse]

Forget all the possible red flags! Send her a few grand via Western Union along with a proposal for marriage and everything will be fine! Also send me a few grand for giving you this "one time only" great advice and saving you all the trouble of searching any longer. I'll PM you my details.

Ignore all the other advice, they don't know what they are talking about...

Seriously Momus, seems that you are going just fine so just keep on keeping on and allow some flexibility in your original requirements and you will be fine.

Just curious, what part of what country do you live in?

Ken

[Momus]

Hey Ken,

Thanks for the great advice!

I live in Minneapolis.

[Turboguy]

Oh, the Siberia of America  :hairraising:

[Momus]

Oh, the Siberia of America  :hairraising:

Yeah, pretty much. I moved up here from Houston, too, so I still haven't gotten used to the winters. The locals tell me they've been "mild," but I just assume that their brains are all frozen solid. It's a nice city, but yeah...it's freaking cold.

[Louie]

Pretty soon it will be as warm as So Cal, that's what the global warming experts say! and it's all Bush's fault too!!!!

[Momus]

Pretty soon it will be as warm as So Cal, that's what the global warming experts say! and it's all Bush's fault too!!!!

Bring it on! I'll thaw out, my property values will go up, and all the local girls will be wearing short skirts and bikinis year around. Sucks for you guys on the coasts, though. 

"And if California slides into the ocean
like the mystics and statistics say it will,
I predict this hotel will be standing
until I've paid my bill."

-- Warren Zevon

[jb]

Isn't that Maxx's stomping grounds?

[PeeWee]

Hey Ken,

Thanks for the great advice!

I live in Minneapolis.

I lived in Minnepolis several times for a short time when I was with Northwest Orient and the mother of my son was based there when she was with Northwest as well. The winters are nothing to brag about. Nothing like going to your car on a frozen morning only to discover that your battery is dead and your hood is frozen shut. I do not miss that. My hat is off to you for you being man enough to live in the frozen tundra.

Peewee

[PeeWee]

Bring it on! I'll thaw out, my property values will go up, and all the local girls will be wearing short skirts and bikinis year around. Sucks for you guys on the coasts, though. 

"And if California slides into the ocean
like the mystics and statistics say it will,
I predict this hotel will be standing
until I've paid my bill."

-- Warren Zevon

Some of the finest looking ladies in the world live in Minnesota. All of that nordic blood has something to do with it.

Peewee

[Muj]

Hey Ken,

Thanks for the great advice!

I live in Minneapolis.

Minneapolis, a great place, to be from...

[2tallbill]

So if a seemingly terrific woman contacted you but she was 16 years younger than you, you'd really discard her just like that? I believe you, but I'm not sure I'm that good at following rules. I mean, like I said in the original post, I *have* all those rules...I'm just not sure I can follow them as strictly as you.

16 years is pushing the envelope a lot, but her being 22 is the biggest problem. 22 year old women have
no clue what they want AND they have no life experience either. Whatever she thinks she wants will
change soon enough when the wind blows in another direction.

My advice is to move on.

Udachi!

Bill

[ML]

Yes a large age difference that might work when the gal is in late 30s will not work when the gal is in early 20s.