To the Pearl of the Black Sea

[rw_recruiter]

Rw Recruiter,  sorry to sidetrack the report, a mod will.move the posts I'm sure. (No I'm not a mod dispite  the old moniker )

I think some of the questions and slight deviations are actually ok if they pertain to the overall experience or help answer questions or shed light on the process.

[rw_recruiter]

That sounds more like it, yes you are probably right, some Ukrainians work abroad and earn a lot more money or in specialist fields but it is of course not typical. Typical is the sort of money Anya's mother is on. I'm guessing Any's family is not particularly rich seeing her mother has to go out to earn that sort of money and her brother is a solider in the Army.

Yes, her family is not in the best financial position. But I do think there are more in Ukraine (at least in Odessa) with money than many realize.

Have you asked her much about what she will get up to after you leave? How she sees her future? I assume meeting other guys some way along the way, how would that sit with you?

Jumper pretty much answered how I feel below. You cannot worry about things in life out of your control. Almost all my relationships with women have started fast and strong, even when my finances were not great. I seem to be able to connect well with people.

My point was to be in a position to let a relationship at least get started on some natural ground. Just *be*, without the worries of what might, or might not , happen 5 years from now or 10 days from now. Being more carefree would do your dating a world of good in my opinion.

Most women like to be around someone confident,engageing,fun,spontaneous. Not someone slightly  crippled with worries over whether they might not like you enough to just naturally be exclusive without having to discuss it or fret over it.

Local men would be more an issue if you want to let things like that trouble you.

None of that even crossed my mind.
I can't relate, I just never ever cared about what other men do.  Additionally I don't mind at all if a woman decides her interest lie elsewhere at some early stage like that. It's fine, it's life.

If you like them,  continue a relationship,  or if not dont, just like regular dating eh?
If one really caught your interest you wouldn't look further at that time right? She'd no need to feet it ,ir ask you about it.

[rw_recruiter]

My spouse is shocked, as are many others, when they find all the expenses we have in USA.

FSU folks hear of the bigger bucks they can make by coming here; but then when all the deductions are taken and bills paid . . . they often aren't much better off than they were back in home country.

Anyas uncle lived in the US 1-2 years. I met him at the family shashlik. He could not handle the lifestyle in the US, too old school and hated all the work. He has returned to Ukraine.

I spent more on one meal, in Chicago, this weekend, than you have, probably, on entertainment for your entire trip.  The meal was for five people and the service was less than spectacular. 

It is amazing how we equate our lifestyle as being exceptional.

Absolutely agree.

[rw_recruiter]

Glad things seem to be going so well! The extra time is not such a bad thing at all.

 You had a lot of holes in the situation before heading over
that would cause concern like not speaking with her directly,on her phone, or in vid chat /Skype/viber.etc.

At times taking a chance on a whim turns out well, it did for me.

I think one key is the positive attitude and mentality of  truly not minding any outcome .
  I think too many have big expectations that need met or the trips a bust,that puts a ton of pressure on a situation that should be just casual and fun.

 I viewed any trip as a fun adventure.
If a romance happened ,cool, an added bonus, if it dint I'd find interesting things to do,and see, with interesting people regardless.
 You can't really lose going in with that mentality and a foot on the ground of common sense.

You strike me as approaching life and these situations that way, so it's all good.Many don't and feel they wasted time,money etc or have a miserable time. Additionally they would never take such a risk on a whim,because its true that  often wouldn't pan out (at least not to some preconceived  expectation)
 
 Funny  I just never viewed meeting a smart beautiful woman as much of a big risk.lol

Anyway ,good luck as things progress!

This is how I live my life. Some risk can result in reward. Go into it knowing there will be issues, but let them bounce off you. Find solutions with quick thinking, and execute. This is life, it is basically a game. Play it - enjoy it. 

[rw_recruiter]

We spend the day yesterday at the dachas pool trying to book a new return flight home and an apartment. We have an impromptu sexy photo shoot at the pool. So I don't forget her Anya says....

We both decide the dacha has been fun but we want to get back into the city.

We find a beautiful apartment just listed for $40 a night by the botanical gardens. Only issue is that it is not available that night. Anya wants it badly, she is in love with it. She gets her way and we find a temporary apartment for one night only a few beaches away from Arcadia. I think they call this area 8th or 10th Street Station on Fountain. Apartment is $38 a night, less than a crack motel off the highway in the US. And we have Sea view.

Driving towards downtown we pass a neighborhood called Tsar Village. Home there start at 300k USD. Many of them and lots of construction. In fact every part of the city we have been in has new construction. And lots of it.

We get into the neighborhood and there is a long line of Porsche and Lexus SUV's leaving.

Anya tells me the area is a nicer neighborhood. Large homes with tall walls all over. And high-rises going up all over. You can see both from our apartment.

[rw_recruiter]

Once settled in, the host tells us there it is a beautiful walk down through the park to the Sea. We shower, throw on some clothes and decide to go on an adventure.

As we leave the apartment we pass a little babushka in a shack tending her garden. It lies in the shadow of the looming apartments going up. The zoning and parking in Ukraine is out of control   



We start to walk through the park and it is a mess. Dry, trash everywhere and Anya looks concerned. "Heroin users here" she says nervously. We quickly make it through the park and hit a walkway, which appears may be the "walk of life" or "health walk" that runs through the green zone here in Odessa.

We stroll for a bit and hit a steep staircase leading down to the Sea. A building resembling a castle lies on the seashore. We later pass it and find it is a University.

[rw_recruiter]

Once down by the Sea, the walkways and landscaping has all been updated. It is very nice, just like by the Potemkin Stairs. We stroll along the Sea holding hands, Anya is happy to take a simple walk. It is the simple things that makes her smile.

We walk past a luxury complex called Maristella with a seafood restaurant. Anya tells me the host recommended it. It has an outside pool and lounge area and agency girls like to take foreigners there. But it is overpriced and the food is not great for the cost she says.

We reach a beach area and walk down the stairs. A huge rainbow covers the sky. Anya tells me she hardly ever sees rainbows in Odessa.



We walk along the beach and kill time talking. Take some photos as is usual with Ukrainian women. 

Notice another luxury condo going up on the top of the hill. They are all over. While there is no money in Ukraine, there seems to be enough people buying up these units and plenty of luxury vehicles. I can only assume the cost of these cars is much more than in the US...

[rw_recruiter]

Upon leaving the beach we stop into Zebra Restaurant. It is perched on the hill overlooking the Sea. You can see it in the last pic slightly hidden by the cabana beds. It's that string of lights.

It is pretty quiet, with only a few tables. I notice couples come and go, but only order one round of drinks or an appetizer. Anya says this is how most Ukrainians afford going out. They eat and home and only grab a drink or share something at a restaurant. It allows them to enjoy the ambience on a limited budget.

We order our meals and I try another Black Sea fish. Larger than the smelts, and Anya says a step up in quality. Still a small fried fish to me....



My new go to drink in Ukraine is Mors, with a little sparkling water. We order a liter of it for dinner. We sit and watch the sun go down and relax. We get the bill and it is the largest of the trip. Almost 1200 Hrivna. But that includes a 10% gratuity, the only place I have been here that does so.

After dinner we wind our way back up the hill and get lost in the luxury neighborhood with big walled homes. The public areas are in disrepair. Sidewalks ruined and smashed, landscaping consisting of waist tall weeds and a few abandoned homes. But behind the walls, the homes are gaudy tiny castles.

Back home for the night we relax and go to bed early.

[JayH]

While there is no money in Ukraine, there seems to be enough people buying up these units and plenty of luxury vehicles. I can only assume the cost of these cars is much more than in the US...
]

Car prices about twice US price . A combination of import and sales tax creates that situation.

[rw_recruiter]

Moving apartments in Ukraine is a real beach. Don't let your girl talk you into it. Trust me on this one.

Hauling a weekends leftover of food and alcohol down a 2 person tin can elevator, waiting for Uber, trying to find the new host and apartment when half the streets names have changed from Russian to Ukrainian and hauling back upstairs is not fun or good for you back.

On the upside the new apartment is very nice. Brand new and overlooks the botanical gardens. You can walk to Arkadia and French Blvd as well. Excellent location.

[rw_recruiter]

Car prices about twice US price . A combination of import and sales tax creates that situation.

There certainly seems to be a large number of luxury vehicles and 300k-800k homes and condos in the area. I understand I am in the more touristy/wealthy part of the city, but have looked at real estate prices in the area. In "villages" outside Odessa and they are quite high for the "average" Ukrainian as well. Many new luxury developments up the coast from Odessa.

[Trenchcoat]

Most women like to be around someone confident,engageing,fun,spontaneous. Not someone slightly  crippled with worries over whether they might not like you enough to just naturally be exclusive without having to discuss it or fret over it.

Basically if she's interested great,  if she's not that's ok too, it let's us both move on to find someone that's the best fit.

As far as seeing others,my wife was at an agency as well. I was the only foreign man that traveled to meet her, ever. So odds would be slim.
Local men would be more an issue if you want to let things like that trouble you.

None of that even crossed my mind.
I can't relate, I just never ever cared about what other men do.  Additionally I don't mind at all if a woman decides her interest lie elsewhere at some early stage like that. It's fine, it's life.

On your agency girl scenario, the one earning the most in one city I know is in her mid thirties. Truth is she is honestly looking for a husband too, go figure. 
Hey if agencies in uk paid you to chat up fsu women, and meet them , why not? If you like them,  continue a relationship,  or if not dont, just like regular dating eh?
  Hmmm, no agencies in uk though,  so what job would you take if interested in meeting a foriegn girl?
Teaching english? It's not dishonest,except your main motive isn't truly to teach right ?
; ) and if you met one, there might even be another ione or two you might date to see as well .
If one really caught your interest you wouldn't look further at that time right? She'd no need to feet it ,ir ask you about it.
Not picking on you specifically , just poking a little at the double standards I see lurking in  place at times.

Rw Recruiter,  sorry to sidetrack the report, a mod will.move the posts I'm sure. (No I'm not a mod dispite  the old moniker )

I don't see this as a sidetrack at all from the original thread it is very pertinent to the situation RW is in. True it could be a case of the girl finally finding a guy she likes. It may well be that not many men go visit her so as said before she may not bother with scamming on dates at all as you also point out this is perhaps unlikely where she gets her living from, its probably just not frequent enough trade to be of long term worth. Why the family turn out at the airport idk perhaps as Boethius allures its the welcoming hospitality there. It could be quite possible some girls on AD are more into scamming on a date and others less so we are after all, all different. AD or their affiliates are probably unconcerned what happens on a date as they will likely see none of the money if a girl is on the make there anyway. They no doubt concern themselves with the bigger picture of making money from letter writing and video chats, etc.

I think you are right Jumper, in a way it is no different to me looking into teaching English as a way to date FSW, they are essentially doing something very similar and just like any dating site bad girls pop up & treat guys badly among the good girls or depending on whether they are interested in who they meet. So RW could have very well landed on his feet here from possibly one of the worst known methods around, ppl agency, sending money, not skyping (made that mistake myself). He could have lucked in or read between the lines, my thought is that he just lucked in and managed to get a girl in the percentage of agency girls that is just into letter writing for the agency as her day job. At her age she is probably willing to seriously entertain the idea of finding a guy for a permanent relationship, have children, etc.

Looking at AD it looks like the women are very photo shopped in their photos their, I still don't think it would be a good idea to use them, it would be playing with fire and taking the blindest stab possible at a positive result. RW may very well have caught a good one here. I can see why he just wants to enjoy himself now and not get stressed out on all the relationship footing, this may or may not be very wise. Building a relationship spontaneously is not doubt a big boon but I think on the last girl I met I should have gotten straight to the crux of it all and how her life is really like outside of holiday mode. It will be interesting to see how this one will turn out, I think a lot to learn from here, well done RW for posting this trip report I am enjoying it too

[Trenchcoat]

It is so disappointing to see the one opinion constantly thrown in on these threads belonging to Trench.

Anyone is free to contribute their opinion etc Jone, I hold no monopoly on posting it is up to others to throw their hat in the ring and it would be pleasing to see whether they agree with me or not. As RW was using AD like many others I was very skeptical a successful outcome could be obtained from this, yet it looks like it might be, early days yet, although I am now seeing that I may have been misplaced in fearing this was all too good to be true. Its a strange one as usually a guy that sends money, doesn't skype, uses ppl, etc is on a hiding to nothing. Many have big ego's and think they are it and the girl will fall in love with them on arrival, rarely this happens but here it looks like it may have. Yes it is quite easy to be envious of someone who uses a poor methodology of finding a girl over others that have not and probably broken about half of the 'ten commandments' along the way . It goes to show though that while we shouldn't take this as a desired approach to finding a FSW if you find the right one then it can cut through all the bs. Going down ppl agency paths for most though will likely thrown up all sorts of continuous misadventures I fear.

[msmob]

I hold no monopoly on posting

You do ... you monopolise  an inability to listen and learn ...

[Jumper]

TC-
I did not post a trip report ,mostly from the worry it would be taken as promoting that method (meeting thru ppl agencies)
  To me the way I met my wife should be a *how not to*.

However my tr would read much like rw recruiter's , where I met an incredibly smart beautiful woman who was the perfect host and a fun caring companion.It progressed ftom there.
I know several others who are married that met the same way in the  affiliate agencies of Odessa or niko etc.
I still feel the ppl  agencies should be avoided, there are better ways to meet sincere women there,
but if you feel lucky and have the time,finances  and energy to spare and can land on your feet if it's the more typical agency *run around*
then it's just another a calculated risk.
To me it's a  fairly low risk level,lol but also a very low likely hood of being positive as well.

[BillyB]

Some risk can result in reward.

There doesn't have to be any risk and the reward is better. Two good people make good things happen. But first you must figure out if you're dealing with a good person.


I rarely participate in trip reports. Men are usually on a high and let all rational thinking go out the window. They fail to evaluate what's in their woman's brain, heart and soul. As evident of many of the responses here, most guys would love to be in your shoes. Dating a beautiful woman with lots of bedroom gymnastics. A woman's integrity and character isn't important if they are feeling chemistry. Besides character, men fail to learn if their woman's world views and goals align. They get into a relationship with the later only to find out years later they are constantly arguing.


I gave Anya a pass earlier thinking the agency is to blame for misusing her profile. She has a day job so how can she be working the wee hours of the morning everyday communicating with Western men? The fact she got you to Western Union money to her brother two month ago tells me she is involved with messaging men, not the agency. Two months ago you were a nobody to her. You were just like the other men who were writing her and she didn't care where the money came from. Surely you don't believe you're the only man she asked for money?


Earlier in this thread you said your trip is not going to be a train wreck. Trip reports can be a disaster but it's never a train wreck. A train wreck happens when a guy wastes years of his life and tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars with the wrong woman. Sometimes the wrong woman can be as simple as she has a different political view. In your case you really need to figure out if Anya is capable of deceiving people to make a living. Do you want to live your life with someone who lacks integrity? Sure you don't but like most men the beauty blinds you and rational thinking goes out the window. If showed up there and Anya was an average looking girl, you would've dumped her and surely not put up with any questionable activities during your communications with her through the agency. Although you were deceived by the age and photos in her profile, you stuck around because you felt the beauty is was still worth it.


I dated an agency girl once. Met her on a dating site and she told me about her past. She said the agency made her date all kinds of weird men. She was beautiful but I came to my senses and determined she isn't what I want living with me. I wanted a woman that has enough dignity that she would refuse to associate with morally bankrupt men in exchange for money or gifts. Some men feel women have a right to work at agencies or in the commercial sex industry if they are experiencing hard times. I do not judge those who have questionable jobs to eat and survive but I don't want them in my life either. There are too many good choices out there to take a chance on a bad one.


My family says my wife is not the most beautiful woman I've dated in the FSU. It's hard to let go of a beautiful woman but there's always another one out there without the issues or questionable past. I like to have fun and many here in the past ripped into me thinking I couldn't make a commitment to women but only using them but I'm not the kind of guy that likes to waste time with the wrong people. On a first trip to a woman, I determine a lot about her and I'll determine if I go home and dedicate months of my life to someone until our second date or say goodbye.


If you want a part time girlfriend with benefits, you need do nothing more. If you're contemplating on living with Anya in a relationship, you better ask the deal breaker questions now instead of finding out years down the line.

[rw_recruiter]

There doesn't have to be any risk and the reward is better.

There is always risk Billy. The higher the risk, the higher the payout.

I gave Anya a pass earlier thinking the agency is to blame for misusing her profile.

Very kind of you.

[rw_recruiter]

After checking into our new apartment Anya calls up a couple girlfriends so we can all meet up at Lanzheron. We head over to Avocado and grab a latte with one of her girlfriends that used to work at an agency with her.



Her friend now works for a film company in Odessa as head editor. They talk about agencies and how they work, how they worked for $100 per month initially basically as slave labor, and the deceit and paranoid and unsuitable men that frequent the sites. We talk for hours about the subject. Short story, don't use an agency.

We start to get hungry and after perusing the menu the girls say it is a bit expensive. Anya's girlfriend says she knows a great shashlik spot a short walk away manned by a Georgian. We stroll over and it smells outstanding. You pick the kabobs out and they grill it right there for you. Around 150 Hrivnas per kabob and includes fries, shredded marinated carrots, tomatoes, and sauces.



I talk to the guy using poor Russian and hand language and he speaks a tiny bit of English. He cooks 70 kilos a day in the summer. He is a shashlik pro. The Ukrainians defer to the Georgians for shashlik I am told.

[jone]

INHO Georgian Shashlik is the best.

[jone]

Sasha knows this better than any here, but ask Anya if the Odessa agencies are still (mostly) run by a guy by the name of Boris.  A couple of years ago, it was all the rage to make fun of the agencies by stating that you were actually talking to 'Hairy Boris'.

[JayH]

Anyone is free to contribute their opinion etc Jone, I hold no monopoly on posting it is up to others to throw their hat in the ring and it would be pleasing to see whether they agree with me or not.

You have been repeatedly told your comments and conclusions are inane-  yet -- you keep repeating them.
I posed a question to you --- why?--  because your stuck on a view that you can "get" a girl on the cheap , and spend nothing in the process -- all based on the idea in your head that girls are desperate because Ukraine is so "poor"   !!
What you don't seem to get  is so are you !!Let's see how you fit in here!!
So-- answer my question

Re: To the Pearl of the Black Sea
« Reply #249 on: Today at 12:17:57 AM »

You keep simply not "getting" any of this. Apart from being jealous of the op here -- you keep looking down your nose at a "poor" Ukraine with your condescending offensive comments. The OP has quoted a few examples -and your response is that that must be telling lies  !  It is typical of your dumb arse attitude.

NOW --TC-- you avoided this question last time I asked -- so I will ask again--   
WHAT TYPE OF CAR DO YOU DRIVE ?
WHAT YEAR?
 WHAT IS IT WORTH?
 HOW MUCH EQUITY DO YOU HAVE IN IT?

Answer the question and I will give some examples of why you  and your  superior attitude is ill conceived and misplaced .


The cars are what I want to draw attention to here--this is 2 years old now-


Please excuse the dramatic reality at the end of this video --it is the content up until that point that is relevant here. It is the cars that I want to draw attention to visible in vid.


Another one commenting on cars ( as well as showing many in background)  Also  a nice look at Kyiv that gives the feel of the city well/


To pre-empt replies-- the vidieo show the lack of old cars -very few appear at any stage. Given that the cost of cars is about twice that in western countries .. mmmm  see where I am going?
I have commented previously on Odessa being more Knightsbridge than Manchester -- and anyone who has been in the centre on a Friday night will attest to the sheer number of up market cars around !

[Nightwish]

You have been repeatedly told your comments and conclusions are inane-  yet -- you keep repeating them.
I posed a question to you --- why?--  because your stuck on a view that you can "get" a girl on the cheap , and spend nothing in the process -- all based on the idea in your head that girls are desperate because Ukraine is so "poor"   !!
What you don't seem to get  is so are you !!Let's see how you fit in here!!
So-- answer my question

You keep simply not "getting" any of this. Apart from being jealous of the op here -- you keep looking down your nose at a "poor" Ukraine with your condescending offensive comments. The OP has quoted a few examples -and your response is that that must be telling lies  !  It is typical of your dumb arse attitude.

NOW --TC-- you avoided this question last time I asked -- so I will ask again--   
WHAT TYPE OF CAR DO YOU DRIVE ?
WHAT YEAR?
 WHAT IS IT WORTH?
 HOW MUCH EQUITY DO YOU HAVE IN IT?

Answer the question and I will give some examples of why you  and your  superior attitude is ill conceived and misplaced .

What on earth makes you think Trench would own a car, the salesmen would scam him, every repair shop in the good ole' England would scam him..
what if someone is using his car as a mule to move around

Highlighted is what I am starting to really get pissed about.. that attitude 


to RW I just say, good on you mate.. you seems to have pulled of a miracle with that girl, enjoy it, nurture it, based on what you write here and the general description you give about her, she is a keeper..if you would choose that path.
I didn't think you would succeed with the story prior to when you go there, but with a little dumb luck and one hell of a miracle you seem to have pulled a wiinning ticket... cudos to you.. and the ones still (B)b*tching.. its called envy

[msmob]

I have commented previously on Odessa being more Knightsbridge than Manchester -- and anyone who has been in the centre on a Friday night will attest to the sheer number of up market cars around !

JayH

If you are going to offer analogies - try to make 'em accurate ... As someone who knows Manchester - well - you CLEARLY don't ...

Shops like Harvey Nichols locate where there is money being spent ...harveynichols.com

Manchester has it's stockbroker belt of Wilmslow, Prestbury and Alderly Edge and Didsbury / Knutsford, etc., aren't 'cheap', either ...


BTW, Why do you spell Odesa with two S's ?  It's like calling Kyiv, Kiev....

[BillyB]

There is always risk Billy. The higher the risk, the higher the payout.

Good girls are low risk and the payout is high if you catch one. Bad girls are high risk and the payout is less or may even send a guy into the hole.

Why do you spell Odesa with two S's ?  It's like calling Kyiv, Kiev....

Girls in Odessa/Odesa I've written too spelled it both ways. Mamba spells it with one S but most girls write their city with two S.

[JayH]

JayH

If you are going to offer analogies - try to make 'em accurate ... As someone who knows Manchester - well - you CLEARLY don't ...

Shops like Harvey Nichols locate where there is money being spent ...harveynichols.com

Manchester has it's stockbroker belt of Wilmslow, Prestbury and Alderly Edge and Didsbury / Knutsford, etc., aren't 'cheap', either ...


BTW, Why do you spell Odesa with two S's ?  It's like calling Kyiv, Kiev....

Have not spent enough time in Manchester to see past a few places i don't want to see again ! I am sure there are nicer areas than I had in mind when I originally wrote that !

        On spelling --- well --interesting that RW commented in thread about drivers having problems finding places with spelling changes as Ukraine  moves to Ukrainian place names & spelling   . I use 2 GPS ,plus 2 phones plus computer if I am able to pre plan a travel/trip plan . Often it is reverting to oldest GPS map-- and Russian spelling that lets me find places !! The problem gets compounded when locals still refer to the old street name !!Plus give directions using old street names !!
     Going back some years - I decided to focus on learning Russian -because it had more universal application . Only in more recent times have I started learning more Ukrainian -- and my first response to people still Russian .
    Add to that the spelling of  airline, accommodation websites ets that still use either English or Russian spelling  it keeps you thinking all the time !