WTF!

[BillyB]

If she didn't come out and say "no dogs in the house", then I would have no need to make it clear I won't give away my dog. We could have had a mature conversation in which we talk about her concerns and perhaps reach a different conclusion. My reaction was because I was told I can't do something. And we aren't even married.

Her aunt is really sick, unvaccinated humans die if it's rabies, and your girl is traumatized by what just happened. Pick the battle over your dog another day after she calms down. That day you should've comfort her and tell her you will send her money so her aunt can go get a rabies shot and other medical treatment she needs. Your girl is waiting for you to be the MAN and she probably feels you let her down. Her aunt could die and you're arguing over your dog. A few guys here like the my way or the highway policy with women. Doesn't have to be that way. You get more out of people with sugar than shit. Give her sugar now, and later she may not give you shit over the dog.

[jone]

My grandmother's having surgery.

Now I'm not calling your woman a liar, but obviously, with you receiving the silent treatment, the conversation did not go how she wanted it to.  Just out of curiosity, have you told your woman you love her?  Ever?

[GQBlues]

This may have started about a dog, but ensued to something else that you should not ignore. Never allow a woman give you the shaft. She didn't hesitate to disrespect you by ignoring you, don't think she'll somehow change someday especially if you're the type to succumb to such drama.

Move on.

Never ever mistake bad behavior to cultural differences, which is exactly what the peanut gallery is convincing you to do. In the end it's your dollar and your show.

[BillyB]

. She didn't hesitate to disrespect you by ignoring you,

Disrespect and ignore are bad things. A man's view is the only view that matters, da?


"Out of the blue, she says “no dogs in the house.” I asked why and she said her aunt got bitten by a stray and is really sick. Probably the dog had rabies."


Wallm, when your lady said "no dogs in the house and you got the reason, you immediately went on the defense of the dog, ignoring her feelings and disrespecting the aunt's condition. GQ said it's your show. You could've taken the show to focus on the aunt getting healthy and how you could help. Chances are she got medical attention but insist on sending money anyway. If the aunt doesn't need it, tell your girl she can use it for her needs. In your first post you mentioned the aunt is sick. I did some reading about rabies and it said "Death usually occurs 2 to 10 days after first symptoms. Survival is rare once symptoms have presented" Hopefully it's not rabies.


When my wife was in the long wait for a k-1 interview, I bought tickets to leave Libya so she can wait it out in Ukraine. Next thing you know Libya is going through a Civil War. Was slow at first but when it got close to Tripoli, I told her she and her mom need to prepare to get out and contact her embassy now. She said she and her mom were strong women and that the news on tv says the fighting is far from Tripoli. Of course she watches state run news. Our news said the rebels were on the doorstep of Tripoli. That night the bullets started to fly in the capital. They had to quickly leave everything behind. All their possessions and tens of thousands of dollars. They failed to prepare. When they escaped to Ukraine, they didn't ask me for any money. They had family there but I knew her mom, a doctor, lost her job and life savings. I told my wife I'm going to send money every month and going to take care of her and her mom. I didn't scold her for not listening to me better. For the traumatic situation she been through, I just gave her comfort. She listens to me more today than ever.

Never ever mistake bad behavior to cultural differences,

Her behavior of applying silent treatment is questionable but can't label it bad. She's upset. If her aunt dies, I'm pretty sure she's done with Wallm. Cultural differences have nothing to do with what is happening here. Who knows? We're assuming he's getting the silent treatment when in fact she could have already made the decision to be done with Wallm forever. If Wallm has any chance, he should send his girl a message asking how her aunt is doing and if he can help. A week has past but better late than never.

[Boethius]

From your perspective, how exactly is she feeling? She is from Venus of course. I hadn't been there.

I don't know. I wasn't privy to the conversation. I'm just telling you as a woman, the silence is one of two things, neither of which is cultural. What can be cultural is she is giving you the boot. UW tend to do this indirectly.

[JayH]

I don't know. I wasn't privy to the conversation. I'm just telling you as a woman, the silence is one of two things, neither of which is cultural. What can be cultural is she is giving you the boot. UW tend to do this indirectly.

Not  sure that is correct.
I do a bit of slapping at BB but --  if he is correct ( ie  that the aunt is CURRENTLY extremely ill)  that overides other issues here that may apply.
That was not how I read it the first time -- but --BB has picked up on what will be a very important issue right now -- and it changes all else here -- now I see Wallm being a precious ,selfish,self absorbed &  non caring  in making such a big deal of this AT THIS TIME.

[msmob]

Ever read the classic Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus? If not, I highly recommend it. It will give you some insight into how women think and how to react to them in order to keep the peace in a relationship. It saved a lot of frustration in mine.

WARNING.. nearly ALL the people I knew who read this book are now divorced ...

[Boethius]

They probably picked it up because they didn't know how to communicate, and were looking for an easy answer to resolve their relationship issues.

[wallm]

Billy, I would have helped with care for her aunt. She never asked me for it and I never got there on my own first because she said no dogs. You may value people a lot more than pets. I value my dog just as much as people in my life. Some of us are like this. I did ask in my daily messages how her aunt is doing. Never got a response.

If UW tend to use silent treatment to boot, then it is immature. I am bewildered by her reaction because we had great chemistry and we talked and talked in a very frank manner about everything that is important to us. She knew clearly how important my dog is to me. It is akin to my giving her an ultimatum to ditch her kid if she had any. I would never do that. I am moving on.

[BillyB]

That was not how I read it the first time -- but --BB has picked up on what will be a very important issue right now -- and it changes all else here -- now I see Wallm being a precious ,selfish,self absorbed &  non caring  in making such a big deal of this AT THIS TIME.

Why are you picking on "only" Wallm? It seems most guys here, when faced with the same issue, will choose to talk about something important to themselves instead of calming a woman down or discuss how to take care of a relative that could be on their death bed.

I do a bit of slapping at BB but --  if he is correct ( ie  that the aunt is CURRENTLY extremely ill)  that overides other issues here that may apply.

Jay, I know most guys think differently and sometimes think I'm different in a bad way. I do real well with women. I have a better idea on when to be tough and when to be sensitive and how to act and read women. I pass on my thoughts and sometimes it doesn't register well with other guys. They have a hard time processing information. I've concluded most guys will never have the success I'm having. I'll continue to help them and occasionally they'll beat me up over it. No big deal to me. I'm living the good life with a woman that is super sweet and has super model looks. Her attitude depends on how I talk and act with her. Once guys realize they are key to how a woman behaves around them, they'll get better results out of women. I've never read the Mars/Venus book.

Billy, I would have helped with care for her aunt. She never asked me for it and I never got there on my own first because she said no dogs.

You had control over which direction the conversation was going to go. Sure she said "no dogs" and it bothered you. You should've ignored that and continue to talk about the aunt. She's too proud to ask you for your help. An aunt isn't as important as your child but you should've told her you're going to send her a few hundred dollars to use in case her aunt needs more medical attention. Her aunt is supposed to be your aunt someday. Your lady probably now has a low opinion of you when it comes to handling the health of family. She's questioning if you're worth spending her life with. Maybe she's wrong but at that moment, you showed you cared about what was important to you over her and her family. If you do the right things and become highly desirable man a woman wants to live with, she will be less demanding and more likely to give into your needs and desires. If you handled the situation the right way, I believe she would've changed her mind over your dog.

[wallm]

billy, I am not surprised you think that way. I could say that she should never have given me the ultimatum. She should have stuck to telling me what happened and I would have helped her.

I see that many here put these women on a pedestal. The prevailing thought seems to be how incredible these women are and how lucky we are that they even look at us. F that. I don't view them as the second coming. They are no better than women here. It is just finding the needle in the haystack. Finding the one right for me whether it is someone local or someone overseas. Perhaps I am not meeting the right ones in my search. Need to reassess what I am doing.

[fathertime]

I had my first argument with the woman I am pursuing. We had talked about future together. I was supposed to go see her again during the last week of this month. Out of the blue, she says “no dogs in the house.” I asked why and she said her aunt got bitten by a stray and is really sick. Probably the dog had rabies. I explained I had dogs since I was a ten. I treat them like family and I take good care of them. She would have none of it. She knew since the beginning how much I love my dog. I had showed her pictures and she seemed to like her. She told me to give it to a shelter. I was pissed. I told her as politely as I could, “I am not getting rid of my dog for any reason.” I got the silent treatment for the last week. It was hard to enjoy the long weekend. No responses to viber and skype messages and calls. I have no patience for this kind of drama and illogical thinking. Back to the drawing board. I thought if I am being hasty but this is a deal breaker. I would never get rid of my dog, even for someone who looks like Margot Robbie. I like my Spin class instructor. Nice ass, killer smile and happy person. Last option is calling Ed if I want to continue pursuing FSUW.

...Yes, moving on quickly appears to be a good call.   
....If you move on, you are now armed with more knowledge/experience with how to handle situations which is nothing but a good thing.
.... There are babes all over, as soon as you find another, this one will be forgotten. 
....The silent treatment, lack of response, and unreasonable requests, is likely a harbinger of what you would be getting into if you were to move forward with this particular lady.  She is doing you a favor by outing herself before you get too far along.  Some men live with this (Maybe are even somewhat ok with it) for much of their lives.  You probably wouldn't be happy like that, based on what I have read. 


Fathertime!

[Trenchcoat]

I had my first argument with the woman I am pursuing. We had talked about future together. I was supposed to go see her again during the last week of this month. Out of the blue, she says “no dogs in the house.” I asked why and she said her aunt got bitten by a stray and is really sick. Probably the dog had rabies. I explained I had dogs since I was a ten. I treat them like family and I take good care of them. She would have none of it. She knew since the beginning how much I love my dog. I had showed her pictures and she seemed to like her. She told me to give it to a shelter. I was pissed. I told her as politely as I could, “I am not getting rid of my dog for any reason.” I got the silent treatment for the last week. It was hard to enjoy the long weekend. No responses to viber and skype messages and calls. I have no patience for this kind of drama and illogical thinking. Back to the drawing board. I thought if I am being hasty but this is a deal breaker. I would never get rid of my dog, even for someone who looks like Margot Robbie. I like my Spin class instructor. Nice ass, killer smile and happy person. Last option is calling Ed if I want to continue pursuing FSUW.

Wall, now you are getting the same as what I have been getting Its the same thing really but on different subjects, girl takes up an ardent position on something and stubbornly refuses to budge. I think this is probably a common trait to many FSW and if you went and found another woman you would get it over some other topic. While I would call it a woman being pig ignorant as a cultural trait I wonder if there is some other reason why they do this. I think her ignoring you may not be so much silent treatment but an attitude of, 'that is my standpoint/answer I have given you and you know where I stand so not point discussing it'. The last girl I was with did this to me, I found though after a while or if I really laid my feelings on the line if I sent her a message via Skype she would communicate back. Often though it was just a reiteration of her standpoint the - 'I come to you first then you come to me'.

You could try the same with your girl see if she communicates back, but don't expect any change in attitude from her. You could try to reason with her but I found this to be largely useless but you could maybe try it once, I think though that it may be a downward slope, as that is what happened to me. I think as suggested above laying down an ultimatum is probably the way to go and the only thing FSW understand. I'm not sure they understand reason very well if at all, I think they have a kind of blunt culture of 'yes or no' or 'agree or go' they don't really understand resolving disputes with reason as we do in the west as they don't follow how it works, its kind of alien to them.

I think this is where 2tallbill and BillyB do well in that they are willing to deploy ultimatums, both have suggested the use of these to us. Now to me using an ultimatum is almost an alien concept, I do not take well or think well of others that do this, I see it as overly dominant, manipulative and power grasping. I think though for FSW it is a tactic that needs to be deployed when it comes to stand offs like this. I even wonder if women do it to test the guy to see if he is strong enough, the girl is after all seeing if she can get the guy to back down to accepting her position. At the end of the day if she does chose the 'she walks away option' then you just have to look elsewhere to find a girl that won't and accept it was doomed anyway.

It seems to me that there is probably a particular communication skills set for dealing with FSW that if not already naturally part of a way a guy communicates needs to be learned. Everyday communication with a FSW is usually easy enough but it looks to me they have to in the main be handled a certain way when it comes to these types of behaviour. I think that is why these weird situations come about. My thoughts are Wall is that you might be still to be able to salvage this relationship if you were to try the ultimatum route if she is at first unresponsive to reason. If she has not deleted you of Skype, etc then I would say she is still on 'jury out' mode. The girl I saw last I have not written to for several weeks but I get the impression I could leave it weeks or even months and she would still write back, but if I regularly tried to communicate with her trying to reason as I had been she just ignores me pretty quickly.   

[wallm]

Trench, women here are no different. They can be just as stubborn and unreasonable. So can men. I am sure I could have handled it better but that ultimatum is the deal breaker. Live and learn.

Now, on to the next one......Anne, my spinning instructor. She speaks fluent English, sweet. I don't need passport to go see her. Worth a try.

[Trenchcoat]

Trench, women here are no different. They can be just as stubborn and unreasonable. So can men. I am sure I could have handled it better but that ultimatum is the deal breaker. Live and learn.

Now, on to the next one......Anne, my spinning instructor. She speaks fluent English, sweet. I don't need passport to go see her. Worth a try.

I disagree with you on this one Wall, I think FSW are more stubborn I think possibly as a result of the Soviet era and as Boethius says nearly everyone essentially being working class. Sure you could find the odd guy or girl in the west that is particularly stubborn but it will be far less I wager. It sounds like to me you see your spinning instructor as a girl you are more interested in than the Nikolaev girl. For sure its easier dating at home if you can but off course there has to be chemistry there, availability, etc. I wish you luck with the spinning instructor if that is the girl you are interested in, is chemistry with and is obtainable. If she really is as hot as you say she is in UK guys would be round her like flies around sh*t and she would have a long queue of guys to choose from.

[jone]

What constitutes an FSU woman and stubbornness?  Because I am sure that there are plenty of women in the US and Canada who have their opinions that are immutable.  I think that in the FSU - or in my experience - women who might be of FSU parentage, have a tendency to make pronouncements that are starkly in contrast with good manners on disagreeing with someone.  That could be the difference that you, wallm, are experiencing.

So, do I understand correctly?  Anne is your spinning instructor?  Does that mean she is a spinner?

[Nightwish]

Trench.
You could have saved a lot of wasted bandwith and space by just typing "blah blah blah I know nothing about women" instead of rambling on endlessly about subject you know nothing about.
your 2 encounters with FSU women does not make you an expert, where 1 of them came across as stubborn to you.. 

[Trenchcoat]

Trench.
You could have saved a lot of wasted bandwith and space by just typing "blah blah blah I know nothing about women" instead of rambling on endlessly about subject you know nothing about.
your 2 encounters with FSU women does not make you an expert, where 1 of them came across as stubborn to you.. 

Then from your vast experience Nightwish do you suggest is going on here?

Seems peculiar to me that these girls are like 'Wow, I've just met this Foreign dude that I love and am really into, 'Oh no, wait he has a dog, no that just won't do at all!' Or whatever oddball problem they have with whatever the issue is. I mean for crying out loud how do they ever expect to find a permanent partner if this is how they carry on. Surely they must realise by putting obstacles in the way they are blocking the relationship and it will end. Wall here has little choice than to walk away so quickly as someone here said as there is no other option other than perhaps ultimatum and her backing down.

[BillyB]

billy, I am not surprised you think that way. I could say that she should never have given me the ultimatum. She should have stuck to telling me what happened and I would have helped her.

Are you sure you got an ultimatum? In your first post you said "out of the blue she said no dogs in the house". She gave no explanation until you asked for one. I am leaning towards the situation being a test to see how you'd react and handle the situation. Before making the commitment of moving in with you forever, she wanted to learn more about your character. It's smart those women learn about their men before moving overseas and living with them so I can't blame her if she tested you.


Men are bad about learning their woman's character. We should observe them more and see how they treat others before committing our lives to them but we are often blinded by their beauty and are trying to impress them so much we fail to see past the outside of their skin.


If you ignored what she said about the dog and steered the conversation to make it about your woman and her aunt, you could've diffused the situation instead of escalating it. That is the right thing to do. That is what a real MAN would do. You're supposed to be wiser and know more than the woman. FSU expect that from their man. Those women act strong but they prefer to be weak around a strong man. It's your responsibility to be strong and steer the ship in the right direction even if they made a wrong turn. If you figure out what I'm saying, you will never be lonely and you will get a whole lot of loving whether you're married or remain single.

[Nightwish]

Then from your vast experience Nightwish do you suggest is going on here?

Seems peculiar to me that these girls are like 'Wow, I've just met this Foreign dude that I love and am really into, 'Oh no, wait he has a dog, no that just won't do at all!' Or whatever oddball problem they have with whatever the issue is. I mean for crying out loud how do they ever expect to find a permanent partner if this is how they carry on. Surely they must realise by putting obstacles in the way they are blocking the relationship and it will end. Wall here has little choice than to walk away so quickly as someone here said as there is no other option other than perhaps ultimatum and her backing down.

We know one side of this story. So I wont even start to judge or come with any suggestions.. it can be a million reasons, I am just pointing out that you can't sit here a draw conclusions and come with suggestions on this (or any other) subject with your limited, almost no experience at all.
Sit down, shut up and read.. that's my advice to you.. ask questions, but don't ever give anyone suggestions.

I do not see FSU girls/women as more stubborn then anyone else, more direct and to the point, don't put up with any BS yes, quickly to forgive and forget if given the chance yes. One of the few traits I would give to an FSU woman over most other women I met is that they are extremely proud women.. more stubborn? heck no.. you never dated a Latina that's for sure..  I have, three and all three was stubborn as h*ll..  I don't draw the conclusion that ALL Latinas are that way.. age for once is a very big factor.. (all 3 was in their early 20:s)

[wallm]

Billy, you are right. I am wrong. 

Trench, you have an idealistic view of these women. They aren't all that. Lower your expectations for FSUW. I had said this before. Don't put them on a pedestal. I don't view them as saviors. I am sure there are some that are desirable and dreamy. I haven't found one yet. I am learning as I go. There are success stories on this board. Perhaps one day i will part of one.

[BillyB]

Billy, you are right. I am wrong. 

Don't think of this as a right or wrong situation, think of it as Billy got the woman and I didn't. You need to be the guy that gets the woman and you don't have to be pussy whipped giving into demands to achieve those results. We all go through challenges. You had challenges with this women. You will have challenges with your next woman. How you handle them will determine the results.


I hear from men how woman are bitchy, stubborn and they're all the same but those same women are sweethearts when around a different guy. You could've been a different guy. You and I both invested time and money into a woman. It doesn't take much to lose it all so take care of your investment. Some things are out of your control but you could've controlled the last conversation you had with your woman. You had the power to influence the outcome to what you wanted but thought about your needs and escalated it into an argument. The discussion about the dog should've been saved for another day....after the aunt recovers. Exercise patience.


I wish more FSU women would show up to provide their input. I'd bet money the overwhelming majority of them would like it that you showed a lack of concern for your woman's aunt who may have an illness that could cause death when you decided it was more important to talk about your needs of a dog.

[wallm]

I had indeed asked how her aunt is doing and all that before I made it clear I am not giving my dog to a shelter for any reason. And i had been asking about her aunt in every message for a week. You were not on Skype with me and her. You are free to draw conclusions as you wish. If FSUW think giving me an ultimatum about my dog is the right thing to do, they are dumber than I want. There is NO woman for whom I will give up my dog.

[JayH]

If you ignored what she said about the dog and steered the conversation to make it about your woman and her aunt, you could've diffused the situation instead of escalating it. That is the right thing to do. That is what a real MAN would do. You're supposed to be wiser and know more than the woman. FSU expect that from their man. Those women act strong but they prefer to be weak around a strong man. It's your responsibility to be strong and steer the ship in the right direction even if they made a wrong turn. If you figure out what I'm saying, you will never be lonely and you will get a whole lot of loving whether you're married or remain single.

I think BB is thinking this thru quite well -- and makes some excellent points here !

Something else occurred to me -- re the comment by op about putting women on a pedestal --given the inability of some to see how flawed they are themselves I think that is a joke.
Once you seek to include someone else in your life it is the time to open your mind . That relationship expands your responsibilities beyond your existing world ( & dog!!) . People in the FSU tend to have a much tighter extended family unit than many(most?) in the west and a such see a responsibility to those people.Not recognising that is a huge MISTAKE.

On dogs -- in the past I have got in physical fights with both attacking dogs and owners and bystanders when my 6kg little dog was attacked. I was a passionate protector and loved her as much as anyone has ever loved a pet. That said -- she would line up to get on my bed at night-where she would be until it was time to sleep when she went to her own bed.She also knew when it was appropriate for her head to her own bed ! Even that sort of interaction was not approved of by a non dog "person". It was about as non intrusive as a dog could be --but to introduce another person into my (our!) world could always have taken time.

[JayH]

I had indeed asked how her aunt is doing and all that before I made it clear I am not giving my dog to a shelter for any reason. And i had been asking about her aunt in every message for a week. You were not on Skype with me and her. You are free to draw conclusions as you wish. If FSUW think giving me an ultimatum about my dog is the right thing to do, they are dumber than I want. There is NO woman for whom I will give up my dog.

What would you prefer--  someone to play nice until they had the ball and then poison the dog?
That equals about the same lack of sensitivity you are exhibiting.