The USA and political correctness issues :)

[GQBlues]

  Besides, you're not even from the USA, and yet you know better than everybody who has listened to what bullshit there   Be tolerant, would you?

It always fascinate me how people who doesn't live in the US actually knows actual details of our lives we live in everyday than those that do.

Oh yeah, the proverbial MSM.

[Boethius]

You quoted Nat's statement about the 3 year old and answered to it. I'm just trying to understand how your reply pertains to her example of the 3 year old.

I wasn't referring to a specific case, just the issue in general.  I don't know which 3 year old Nat was referring to.

[tfcrew]

[Nat]

tfcrew, 

I wasn't referring to a specific case, just the issue in general.  I don't know which 3 year old Nat was referring to.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kimberly-and-kai-shappley-transgender-child-bathroom-rights_us_58b5b5b6e4b060480e0c4393 "By 3, Kai was pulling T-shirts down around her waist to make skirts and tying long-sleeve shirts around her head to make long hair.  By 3-and-a-half, Kai was verbalizing that she was a girl six times a day or more, which would lead to time-outs, spankings and yelling matches."And other examples aged 5 to 10: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/topic/trans%20kids[/font]

[GQBlues]

Doesn't deal with 'sexuality', but nonetheless another examples of the extreme idiocies of the PC in California:

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/news/usc-traveler-mascot-under-fire-ties-to-robert-e-lee-white-nationalist/1dqlw9ko0m88z1swg6xkedx1ag

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-founding-fathers-20160215-story.html

[GQBlues]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/dairy-queen-owner-defends-politically-incorrect-sign/ar-AArI7hP?li=BBnbfcL

[pitbull]

tfcrew, 


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kimberly-and-kai-shappley-transgender-child-bathroom-rights_us_58b5b5b6e4b060480e0c4393 "By 3, Kai was pulling T-shirts down around her waist to make skirts and tying long-sleeve shirts around her head to make long hair.  By 3-and-a-half, Kai was verbalizing that she was a girl six times a day or more, which would lead to time-outs, spankings and yelling matches."And other examples aged 5 to 10: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/topic/trans%20kids

Nat,


Have you read the huffpost article? How this child's mother has always been a very traditional Christian conservative in Texas, and how she tried to force her child to be and behave and identify as a boy, for months and months, through punishments and violence, destroying her own child in the process?


And how now that she supports her child all her "pious" christian friends and family abandoned her and she is actually dreaming of moving to a more tolerant place where her child has a chance to actually be happy and herself instead of bullied and abused? A place like the one that your friends in?


I think that being tolerant of those who are different and teaching children that in fact transgender and gay people are totally normal, is a great thing.

I am proud that my 8-year old is totally "color blind". When she describes a person she never uses the color of their skin as a descriptor.

[Nat]

Have you read the huffpost article? How this child's mother has always been a very traditional Christian conservative in Texas, and how she tried to force her child to be and behave and identify as a boy, for months and months, through punishments and violence, destroying her own child in the process?

Of course I read about his freaky mom and about the fact that instead of turning everything into a joke she punished the child and mutilated his mind. This proves the fact that such children have mental issues provoked by their abusive parents. When a 3-year-old pretends to be a girl, you should turn everything into a game, not to traumatize him. But the fact that the mom is a religious psychopath doesn't mean that the child has to be put on hormone therapy, right? He has suffered enough being born in such family, hasn't he? Or maybe the doctors have explained to the 6-year-old that his weenie will never work after that, but he won't become a girl either, because technically he'll still be a boy on estrogen hormones, which will gradually destroy his body? Is 6 years old the right age to take such decisions, for real?

I think that being tolerant of those who are different and teaching children that in fact transgender and gay people are totally normal, is a great thing.

It's better to teach not to be shocked by the variety. And accept the variety. But not to make it "normal". It's way not normal

I am proud that my 8-year old is totally "color blind". When she describes a person she never uses the color of their skin as a descriptor.

Does she use the color of people's hair? Isn't it insulting? People were born with the hair color they hadn't chosen, so why is it normal to mention the color of somebody's hair and not normal to mention the color of somebody's skin?    I'll tell you what. Those people who turned complexion-mentioning into a problem are actual racists. Seriously. When you teach your child that mentioning black skin is bad, whereas mentioning black hair is normal, guess who's demonstrating the child that being black is somehow shameful and thus is not to be mentioned?Why being black has to be an issue?! We live in the 21st century. We have all been racially mixed so far. And yet we are all different! When I see a person whose skin is black, I have no problem saying - this person has black skin. Guess why - because I really, truly don't see a problem in being black. Some people are white, some people are black, some people are brown, some are even yellow, and some are red. Is that a problem for a non-racist person? No, it isn't! It wouldn't even cross my mind than mentioning skin color is bad, simply because there can be nothing wrong with person's skin color!!! Because the color of somebody's skin is the same feature as the color of their hair, eyes or teeth. So being racist is bad, but being a racist hypocrite is even worse. And, dear pitbull, don't get me wrong, I have no intention to call you personally a hypocrite - it's the culture which is being formed now that is hypocritical all inside. And you just have to think a bit to realize it is. After all, if nothing can be wrong with something, we're not afraid to mention it, aren't we?

[pitbull]

When a 3-year-old pretends to be a girl, you should turn everything into a game, not to traumatize him. But the fact that the mom is a religious psychopath doesn't mean that the child has to be put on hormone therapy, right? He has suffered enough being born in such family, hasn't he? Or maybe the doctors have explained to the 6-year-old that his weenie will never work after that, but he won't become a girl either, because technically he'll still be a boy on estrogen hormones, which will gradually destroy his body? Is 6 years old the right age to take such decisions, for real?

Are you an expert on raising transgender children? Do you even have a child?
When a 3 year old PRETENDS to be a girl (or a puppy.. or a cat ) you can turn it into a joke.
When your 6-year-old has been insistent they ARE in fact a girl ever since they could talk, complete with rejecting their male name, wearing a long dress and hair to school and church, in spite of all joking, redirecting etc.  - you better take it seriously.


Which hormones are you talking about? Imagination gone wild?


All this mother is fighting for is for her child to not be marginalized, bullied and marginalized and for the school to allow her to use a girls' bathroom.

It's better to teach not to be shocked by the variety. And accept the variety. But not to make it "normal". It's way not normal

It's better to teach not to be shocked by the variety. And accept the variety. But not to make it "normal". It's way not normal

No it is not. Being LGBT is normal. It is when something is taught as "not normal" children begin to bully and ostracize.

[Nat]

Are you an expert on raising transgender children?

Are you?

Which hormones are you talking about? Imagination gone wild?

Google transvestite and transgender and learn the difference, would you?

All this mother is fighting for is for her child to not be marginalized, bullied and marginalized and for the school to allow her to use a girls' bathroom.

All this mother did was shouting at and spanking a 3-year-old when he pretended to be a girl and damaged his mental health. Now both she and her child have to deal with it.

And, btw, don't you want to comment on my answer to you about color blindness?

[pitbull]

Are you?



Google transvestite and transgender and learn the difference, would you?


All this mother did was shouting at and spanking a 3-year-old when he pretended to be a girl and damaged his mental health. Now both she and her child have to deal with it.

And, btw, don't you want to comment on my answer to you about color blindness?

I believe I am on the topic way more than you are. Yes, you clearly mix up transvestite and transgender.
This mother has a transgender child for whom she has become a great advocate despite not taking it the best way in the beginning.
Hopefully some ignorant people will learn from her how to truly support a child.

[pitbull]

Does she use the color of people's hair? Isn't it insulting? People were born with the hair color they hadn't chosen, so why is it normal to mention the color of somebody's hair and not normal to mention the color of somebody's skin?    I'll tell you what. Those people who turned complexion-mentioning into a problem are actual racists. Seriously. When you teach your child that mentioning black skin is bad, whereas mentioning black hair is normal, guess who's demonstrating the child that being black is somehow shameful and thus is not to be mentioned?Why being black has to be an issue?! We live in the 21st century. We have all been racially mixed so far. And yet we are all different! When I see a person whose skin is black, I have no problem saying - this person has black skin. Guess why - because I really, truly don't see a problem in being black. Some people are white, some people are black, some people are brown, some are even yellow, and some are red. Is that a problem for a non-racist person? No, it isn't! It wouldn't even cross my mind than mentioning skin color is bad, simply because there can be nothing wrong with person's skin color!!! Because the color of somebody's skin is the same feature as the color of their hair, eyes or teeth. So being racist is bad, but being a racist hypocrite is even worse. And, dear pitbull, don't get me wrong, I have no intention to call you personally a hypocrite - it's the culture which is being formed now that is hypocritical all inside. And you just have to think a bit to realize it is. After all, if nothing can be wrong with something, we're not afraid to mention it, aren't we?

It is funny how you project your own mentality on others. Very telling though.


Guess what - I have never, not once, told my daughter that mentioning someone's skin color is bad. Or racist. In fact I do not think it is. The beauty of my America is that my child is so used to being around people from all races, cultures, languages and mixes of all of the above, that race and skin color do not even come up in her mind as a major attribute of a person. This is what "color blind" truly means - she just doesn't see it. She would say "my new friend has long braided hair and wears blue glasses. She is taller than I am". It does not even occur to her to think in the same categories as you do: "mentioning black skin is bad, racist etc.".
This is because she belongs to a culture where ethnical and racial diversity is so accepted, in fact commonplace, that she does not even elevate it to the level of the first degree descriptor of a person.


This my friend is a difference between belonging to a culture that is inclusive and tolerant and a culture that at best "pretends" to not be racist. At the very best.


I understand it might be difficult to comprehend having only really experienced one of the two cultures, but trust me - the difference is amazing.

[BC]

Guess what - I have never, not once, told my daughter that mentioning someone's skin color is bad. Or racist. In fact I do not think it is. The beauty of my America is that my child is so used to being around people from all races, cultures, languages and mixes of all of the above, that race and skin color do not even come up in her mind as a major attribute of a person. This is what "color blind" truly means - she just doesn't see it. She would say "my new friend has long braided hair and wears blue glasses. She is taller than I am". It does not even occur to her to think in the same categories as you do: "mentioning black skin is bad, racist etc.".
This is because she belongs to a culture where ethnical and racial diversity is so accepted, in fact commonplace, that she does not even elevate it to the level of the first degree descriptor of a person.

Good for you Pitbull, and your daughter.

As far as race is concerned, I was quite neutral growing up. I remember being first confronted with the subject when I went to school in the southern US in the '70's.  I was lucky living overseas most of my young life in the 60's. Being around the military, racism was frowned upon, quite PC and even enforced.  A lot, if not all has to do with parents and prevailing social environment where you grow up.  Kids nowadays do seem to have a different attitude and tolerance.  It'll take another generation or two to weed the garden.  In the meantime, it's probably best that society overdoes it, being more PC, rather than slacking off.  It's the only way to break that destructive cycle.

[ML]

She would say "my new friend has long braided hair and wears blue glasses. She is taller than I am".

Extremely hard to believe.

When first person is describing a third person to a second person, the natural thing is to do it in a way that the second person will be able to readily identify the third person when seen.

Imagine that you go to school, mall, airport to pick up a person who has been described to you as having long braided hair, wearing blue glasses and somewhat taller than me.  It would be pretty silly, as you well know.

The best identifier as a first screening would be to say she (he) is black/oriental/Indian/white.
This allows a more focused look for those of that race that had long hair, blue glasses, etc.

In trying to portray one as totally PC . . . one can make very silly statements.

[Boethius]

I disagree, based on the age of pitbull's daughter.  At that age, my children would not have described someone by race/skin colour either.

[pitbull]

Extremely hard to believe.

When first person is describing a third person to a second person, the natural thing is to do it in a way that the second person will be able to readily identify the third person when seen.

Imagine that you go to school, mall, airport to pick up a person who has been described to you as having long braided hair, wearing blue glasses and somewhat taller than me.  It would be pretty silly, as you well know.

The best identifier as a first screening would be to say she (he) is black/oriental/Indian/white.
This allows a more focused look for those of that race that had long hair, blue glasses, etc.

In trying to portray one as totally PC . . . one can make very silly statements.

One can sound very silly projecting own life-long load of prejudice on someone from a totally different generation and background 

[BillyB]

Getting to a new unit in the Army and meeting my new roommate, who was a big black guy, he referred to me as chink instead of my name. Chink is a racist term used against Asians. I'm half Asian. I didn't report him and I wasn't offended. A few days later a white soldier told me never to call him "boy". He said his ancestors were slaves and white men called male slaves "boy". I asked what will he do to me if I called him "boy". He said he'd go into a rage and kick my ass. I thank him for the information. Later my black roommate called me a chink again. I turned around and said "What did you call me...boy?" After that we got along fine.

[Nat]

Guess what - I have never, not once, told my daughter that mentioning someone's skin color is bad. Or racist. In fact I do not think it is.

Waaaidasecond    It's you who said this, isn't it: I am proud that my 8-year old is totally "color blind". When she describes a person she never uses the color of their skin as a descriptor.


So is it bad or isn't it bad? ))))))

It does not even occur to her to think in the same categories as you do: "mentioning black skin is bad, racist etc.".

As I do?   Again, honey, these are your words: I am proud that my 8-year old is totally "color blind". When she describes a person she never uses the color of their skin as a descriptor.
I, on the other hand, told you that I don't see anything bad in that 

I understand it might be difficult to comprehend having only really experienced one of the two cultures, but trust me - the difference is amazing.

What makes you think I haven't?

Extremely hard to believe.

When first person is describing a third person to a second person, the natural thing is to do it in a way that the second person will be able to readily identify the third person when seen.

Imagine that you go to school, mall, airport to pick up a person who has been described to you as having long braided hair, wearing blue glasses and somewhat taller than me.  It would be pretty silly, as you well know.

The best identifier as a first screening would be to say she (he) is black/oriental/Indian/white.
This allows a more focused look for those of that race that had long hair, blue glasses, etc.

In trying to portray one as totally PC . . . one can make very silly statements.

Just wait for the times when the police are prohibited to use the racial features in the description of the people wanted   I'm sure they are yet to come 

Getting to a new unit in the Army and meeting my new roommate, who was a big black guy, he referred to me as chink instead of my name. Chink is a racist term used against Asians. I'm half Asian. I didn't report him and I wasn't offended. A few days later a white soldier told me never to call him "boy". He said his ancestors were slaves and white men called male slaves "boy". I asked what will he do to me if I called him "boy". He said he'd go into a rage and kick my ass. I thank him for the information. Later my black roommate called me a chink again. I turned around and said "What did you call me...boy?" After that we got along fine.

That's the essence of newage racism - when the minority bullies the majority, whereas in a normal world nobody is supposed to bully anybody: and it goes about race, sexual orientation and religious beliefs. That's actually what the topic started with until pitbull hijacked it with her own experience of bringing up children 

[pitbull]

Waaaidasecond    It's you who said this, isn't it: I am proud that my 8-year old is totally "color blind". When she describes a person she never uses the color of their skin as a descriptor.


So is it bad or isn't it bad? ))))))


As I do?   Again, honey, these are your words: I am proud that my 8-year old is totally "color blind". When she describes a person she never uses the color of their skin as a descriptor.
I, on the other hand, told you that I don't see anything bad in that 





What makes you think I haven't?





Just wait for the times when the police are prohibited to use the racial features in the description of the people wanted   I'm sure they are yet to come 





That's the essence of newage racism - when the minority bullies the majority, whereas in a normal world nobody is supposed to bully anybody: and it goes about race, sexual orientation and religious beliefs. That's actually what the topic started with until pitbull hijacked it with her own experience of bringing up children 

The fact that you have a pervasive need to attached such qualifiers as "bad" and "racist" into my example speaks volumes. Educate yourself on what "colorblind" means, never too late to educate yourself 

[GQBlues]

Our daily lives always involve complex sociological identifier that binds, or entwine, each one of us in most everything we do. To say one is 'colorblind' to prove one is not racist is wrong in more than a front. It's outright silly.

Recognizing one's skin/hair/eye color is tantamount in our personal identifier. Good, bad, or indifferent: Preferences and prejudices co-exist in EACH ONE OF US.

Imagine a witness describing a 'suspect' when asked for an exact description of a person. "Officer, he's male, about 20-25, 6'2", weighs about 200 pounds. Wearing blue jeans and white shirt."

Will this be enough, or would a cop be 'racist' if he ask for the person's ethnicity? Will the witness be if he oblige? Was his initial description be construed as 'exact'?

Imagine getting setup for a blind date. You're the type of person who really isn't attractive to a black/white person. Does that make you a racist? I think anyone declaring themselves 'colorblind' to remove oneself from being called a 'racist' is just being silly.

ALL of us see what we do everyday and all of life's varying distinction/s. It is what we see in our individual lives that helps us distinguish our personal preferences and prejudices.

It's funny to me when I hear this crap here in LA, how one is not a racist, no prejudice cause one doesn't see the person's skin color. Yet they're the first to drive 5 miles out of their way just so they don't drive through the 'hood. Much less walk through one. LMAO.

[pitbull]

It's funny to me when I hear this crap here in LA, how one is not a racist, no prejudice cause one doesn't see the person's skin color. Yet they're the first to drive 5 miles out of their way just so they don't drive through the 'hood. Much less walk through one. LMAO.

I would not believe any adult who proclaims they are "color blind". Not possible given the societal and upbringing forces in play.

But it is the case in kids probably under a certain age (not sure the exact age) being raised at least where I live. Personally I love it and hope it doesn't change. 

[Nat]

GQBlues, 

[GQBlues]

I would not believe any adult who proclaims they are "color blind". Not possible given the societal and upbringing forces in play.

But it is the case in kids probably under a certain age (not sure the exact age) being raised at least where I live. Personally I love it and hope it doesn't change.

Not necessarily skin-color, but not too long ago they conducted a social experiment (not sure when it was) where they took about 12 Israeli kids and 12 Palestinian children and put them to live together. It was done here in the US.

Sometime later, not sure how long ago - they're literally inseparable. No hate at all. Each one of them harbored some elements of prejudices, but living in close quarters they begin to understand each other more closely, and more importantly, all of them were away from their respective environment of 'hate' and influences; they were able to co-exist peacefully. It's wonderful.

But such environment will be very difficult, if not impossible, to obtain in our country not unless our leaders, politicians and scholars (and the media) that decides for all of us, quit tampering with our social fabric and relationships.

This is why, in as much as I'm a social liberal, I hate all these PC culture beginning to erode our beliefs, our faith, and soon, unto our lives and home.

[Boethius]

Recognizing one's skin/hair/eye color is tantamount in our personal identifier. Good, bad, or indifferent: Preferences and prejudices co-exist in EACH ONE OF US.

Imagine getting setup for a blind date. You're the type of person who really isn't attractive to a black/white person. Does that make you a racist? I think anyone declaring themselves 'colorblind' to remove oneself from being called a 'racist' is just being silly.

It's one thing as a description.  It's another if it's used to segregate, which often is the case (among all races).

I also think your statement on attractiveness is a little overstated.  There are people who are not attracted to people of different races.  But that has never made sense to me.  There are people of every race I think are physically attractive, others, not so much.  I think anyone who would dismiss an entire race and claim anyone of that particular colour is not attractive probably is racist.

[GQBlues]

It's one thing as a description.  It's another if it's used to segregate, which often is the case (among all races).

I also think your statement on attractiveness is a little overstated.  There are people who are not attracted to people of different races.  But that has never made sense to me.  There are people of every race I think are physically attractive, others, not so much.  I think anyone who would dismiss an entire race and claim anyone of that particular colour is not attractive probably is racist.

Completely disagree with the bolded sentence, which if I may add, is part and parcel the problem about this whole *racist* nonsense our society is being battered with by our silly politicians and media these days.

Why should anyone have to be fed with *guilt* simply because they *prefer* a black/Asian/Latin 'look' instead of white? Has nothing whatsoever to do with harboring any feelings of superiority over another, which is the essence behind 'racism', but rather being attracted to a certain look.

I'll even expand on this. I am not attracted to Filipina women, and I have my prejudices against Filipina women...thus, it doesn't matter how beautiful a Filipina woman is, I've no incentive or affinity of being attractive to one. Now, how can I be a *racist* against women of the Philippines, if I'm from the same race?