How important is it for her to Speak English

[Turboguy]

You are going to have to help me with this one Wiz.  I went back and did a quick reread of all my posts in this thread and then went back and read for a second time all the posts for the last few days.   I could not even see anything close to what you are talking about.  I did not see a bit of wavor in what I said.   A lot of the posts had drifted off topic.  Are you sure the post you are talking about is not in the other thread?   Would you mind going back to the thread you interpreted differently and do a quote on it so I can see what you are talking about.  Frankly I do listen and do change my mind about things but I don't remember that happing in anything we have talked about in a long time.

Here is my official opinion on the subject Wiz.

1.  My vote on the poll was 6-7 as I stated earlier in the post.  I will also metion that seemed to be the most popular vote.  I think it add a serious challenge.   I think it can and does work.

2.  I think the most important factor is the people involved.  If they want it to work bad enough and are willing to work at it, they have a good chance of making it work.  If they are basically incompatible people with him lusting after her beauty and her lusting after a better life or a green card, no it will not work.  It would not work even if they had a common language.

3.  When I say willing to work, I also take into account the fact that they should have a few meetings or more before they commit to a K-1 and that the Visa process will take anywhere from 6-12 months.  If he is willing to pay for English Classes and she is willing to work hard at learning English, they will have some acceptable level of communication when she arrives.  Maybe not great communication but enough to get by.

4.  I think another important factor is the people involved, mostly their personality types and I have a harder time explaining this but I will try.   I think there are people who are just not real suited for the challenges that this would entail.  I am not saying they are lesser people, just their priorities and goals are different.   People are often different in real life than they are on the forums but I think we all form opinions about the personalities of the people here.  Among those who I think would be able to succeed in a relationship that started with little common language are myself, Ken from Virginia, SOC who has done exactly that, Vaughn, Voyager, PhotoGuy and lots more.  Among those who I think would have difficulty with it are you, Wiz, jb, PeeWee, Andrewfin and some others.  In your case Wiz, I see you as having a strong personality.  I see you as someone who does not compromise in what he wants and does not want to deal with difficulties and challenges.  You want to find exactly what you want and go after it.  In jb's case I don't see him as someone who would enjoy the extra effort involved and doesn't really have the patience for it.   In PeeWees case I see him as a high energy person for whom communication is very important.  I think PeeWee is a great guy but I think a language difference would not be something he would enjoy dealing with.   Likewise, Andrewfin needs a gal with a common language and a little extra brain power than the average gal.  I see communication as essential for him.   For the most part the guys I put on the high chance of success list were ones I see as very calm patient people who would not hesitate to take the time, make the effort and do whatever necessary to help make their dreams come true.  I really enjoyed helping Luda learn English and having to work at our commincations.   The language differences never created even a bit of a problem.  I think the language differences were actually a plus for me.  Perhaps not for Luda but I don't think it was a minus either.

5.  I think you learn more about people from non verbal clues than you can from what they tell you.  The two times people will lie and tell people what they want to hear are in a job interviews and looking for a mate.  I have conducted probably 500 or more interviews with job applicants.  When it comes to their abilities and why the left their last job you can tell more about the truth from whether they look away for an answer or start fidgeting than you can from what they say.  If I go back to my first trip to meet Luda there was not a single impression I had based on anything she said.  I had a lot of positive impressions from her actions.  When I gave her too much money (500 roubles) for cab fare and she gave back 300 roubles, I felt she was honest.  When she marched me out of a high priced restaurant because the prices were too high, I knew she had good money sense.  When I watched her actions with her friends I knew she was personable and had good social skills.   When I noticed she spent time with me, showed up when she was supposed to and worked hard to make sure I was comfortable and had everything I needed I felt she was everything I ever dreamed of finding.  It was not based at all on verbal communications.

I had nothing but green flags on the first trip.  On the second the red flags started flying.  Again it was not so much the verbal communications as the non verbal.  It was mostly that she was getting upset with me over the stupidest things.  We were in Moscow with two foot of snow and she got upset because I was wearing jeans for example.  I wanted her to stand in front of a statue for a photo and motioned her with my hand to come there and that to her was calling her like a dog.  We almost ended everything on that trip and probably should have.  I just saw so much good in the first trip and thought maybe it was a bad time of the month or something.  I am not saying I expect anyone to be perfect but I will not make the same mistake of ignoring so many red flags again.   Sometimes you have to learn things the hard way.

So Wiz, that is my thoughts.  I have never wavered from them.  I hope I didn't put you asleep too many times reading all that.   If you would, show me where I said something different and I will try to explain why I said what I did.  Thanks.

[Turboguy]

Picking up the conversation about PG from the groov thread.   There is such a thing as the law of statistic probability's.  One case does not mean anything.   Unfortunately we have no good statistics to go on.  You are saying PG failed so everyone will fail.  Come on Wiz.  I could say SOC succeeded so everyone will succeed.  I am not that stupid.  Maybe pretty stupid sometimes but not that stupid.

PG has been through it.  He does not blame it for his failure.  He says it is a huge hurdle,  I don't dispute that.  He says it can be overcome.  That is what I have been saying all along.  Quit trying to twist words to suit your own premise.

[PeeWee]

If I was doing that with the photos of the players I think I would just send photos of the ref's from the last super bowl instead. 

Well I did that too. I sent a  photo of a ref with the question, "Why are they all yelling at this man?"  Answer" "Because he is an idiot!"

Turbo, a fellow that works with me had dinner with Holmgen and his wife about two months ago. He said that the coach is still miffed about the officiating in that game.

Peewee

[jb]

I posted this on page 3 of this thread;

This is one of the things we've, the OMBs, been preaching since day 1, proposing marriage after 5 days face-to-face is hardly sound decision making at it's best.  I'm sure if you'd said something to that effect to Gary when he filed the I-129F, he'd have had a dozen reasons why his case was different.  They all do; I can't count the number of times I've read, "but,,, our romance is special", only to read later that the guy is back again, looking for another dream girl because the other relationship went tits-up on him.  Remember Photoguy?  He'll be back sooner or later, either giving his old fling another go, or looking for a new one.

It seems I may have more psychic ability than I thought, I predicted the return of Photoguy, and sure enough, he's back.  Not only is he back, but he still defends all of the things he did wrong as being viable.  He still advances this pathetic neurosis of blaming everything in sight for his K-1 failure except his own lack of comprehension. 

WRT that paragraph posted on Groov's T/R:

jb, as a summary, I think it's best to make the statement that a language barrier
is a *huge obstacle*, but with patience and positive attitude about learning and
adjusting, it is an obstacle that can be overcome. It is an obstacle like any other.
-snip-
If you like everything about her, except for her lack of English,
then maybe you should continue to find out who she is, using an interpreter
and translated letters. I learned a lot about Larisa, just by watching how she
interacted with her friends and our 'terp. A picture can tell a thousand words.

I submit to you that what you learned about Larisa during the K-1 trial marriage was all for naught simply because at that point it was too late to undo all the mistakes and oversights you made prior to filing the I-129F.  Your's was a doomed relationship from the outset.  All of the pitfalls were explained to you in "mind numbing detail" by myself and others before she ever set foot in the USA.  You were the one who elected to bow up your neck and claim to have super powers of observation, you even claimed to be able to read her mind and to be able to make life altering decisions based on "body language" and other non-verbal clues.  You were the one who got his head handed to him on every one of the several threads you started based on your half baked logic.  You were the one who decided to ignore all the red flags.

Please, please, please,,, do not come back here and make idiotic statements about how lack of communications between marriage partners is being merely an *obstacle* to be overcome.  Both you and T/G like to comment about the "many" other who have succeeded in marriage with a woman who spoke no English and she later learned the language. Frankly speaking, I don't see "many" who have done this.  Maybe there are one or two around here, Clyde might qualify, but in reading his comments about his marriage I'm not sure he's out of the woods yet either.  Who else constitutes this group of "many"?  I defy you to make up a list of 30 men who have done it, that is; married a woman he could not talk to and succeeded in a relationship that has lasted more than 4-5 years. Even 30 would not be a "many", when you compare the total membership here.  What you and T/G, and a few others are doing is justifying bad decision making, making the age old claim that "my case is special", therefore the rules don't apply to me.  Sadly, you have learned the hard lesson that the rules do apply to you, that your case was not so special after all.

T/G,

PG has been through it.  He does not blame it for his failure.  He says it is a huge hurdle,  I don't dispute that.  He says it can be overcome.  That is what I have been saying all along.  Quit trying to twist words to suit your own premise.

I don't see wiz twisting words here, you are doing a fine job of that.  Of course he does not blame it for his failure.   He doesn't want to admit to the root cause of his failure, no one likes to have his own words for breakfast, but the fact that he could not get to know Larisa, could not meet and visit with her family, never had any outside feedback other than a paid interperter, ignored the red flags keeping him away from her hometown, etc., in other words, everything he did badly that resulted in his failed K-1 was symptomatic of his inability to communicate one-on-one with a woman he asked to marry.   He was, to put it quite simply, willing to wed a complete stranger and hope for the best.   In the thread referred to above, Gary did the same thing, it seems to me that you would have also done this same thing with Luda.  As I see it, the only difference between you, P/G, and Gary is that Gary did marry the stranger, and the DV courts were the ones who handed him his head.

I don't wish bad things for you or P/G, and I take no satisfaction from saying "I told you so", but unless you guys learn to heed the handwriting on the wall, I don't read success in either of your futures.

[wiz]

OK Turbo

I did not go to sleep and now that you explaint to me in details I can understand your point of view.

You and the other's in your list who are prepared to take the challenge of meeting a woman with little English, maybe you have the time to do so and you probably like the challenge. Personally I do not agree with this approach. I find the propabilities of failure too high, so I choose the best option available to me, despite its limitations in finding FSU women speaking good English, especially over 40 years old, which is the range I am looking.

I don't agree completely with your statement:

"In your case Wiz, I see you as having a strong personality.  I see you as someone who does not compromise in what he wants and does not want to deal with difficulties and challenges.  You want to find exactly what you want and go after it."

In my case, I am 61 yrs old, and don't compromise when it comes to language communication because I prefer to eliminate the unecessary extra time getting to know the woman and not because I don't want to deal with difficulties and challenges.

I am fully aware of the difficulties lying ahead and as you very well know are not just 1 or 2!

My priority is to have good communication with the woman of my choice so we can overcome these difficulties much easier and quicker.

At the end of the day we will have to live together one day so it is better to eliminate as much as possible any problems and the language communication is helping you to have a better understanding right from the begining!

[PeeWee]

What I do not understand is what with all of the English speaking choices available to a man why even take the time to look at the one who cannot speak the language decently? For me the fewer complications that stand in my way the better I like my odds of succeeding. Even in my consulting work there is a multitude of options that require mind blowing amounts of documentation and paperwork. I  hate paperwork and while my counterparts seem to relish in that and the drawings and the computer software aspect of the job I tend to not get involved in as much of that as humanly possible. KISS! is the buzzword. Keep It Simple Stupid! Same logic applies with this process of finding women.

FYI...I am about to spend 7 days with an RW and meeting for the first time. The thought of asking her to marry me within that 7 day span seems unimaginable to me. Unless the mystical powers of the pyramids overcome my common senses then any thoughts in that regard will not come from my mouth.

Peewee

[Turboguy]

Gosh, break down and actually work for an hour or two and it gets hard to catch up.

OK,  PeeWee,  I agree, worst officiating I have ever seen.  Liked every second of it.  I would be happy to buy any of the ref's a beer.  Hopefully whoever the Steelers play in the next Super Bowl will have better officiating. 

Wiz, I really think your thoughts about your goals and desires are not much different than I pictured with the impression I had from your posts.   I think you are very focused and will have success.  I also agree that the older a gal is the harder she will find it to learn another Language.  I think that is a very good point.

My list was not those who are prepaired to take the challenge Wiz, it was those who my guesses about their personalities and characteristics could have a reasonable chance of success if they chose to.  I can not even say for sure I am prepared to take the challenges.  I concentrate on gals with some English or better but do not totally rule out gals who don't.  I sure don't go looking for gals with no English.

jb, I think as PG said, Language was just one of the problems.  Yes, you did try to warn him.  I still feel you may have had better luck with different techniques but I really don't want to start that conversation again. 

PeeWee, good post.  Shows a lot of common sense.  However if we were looking at hypothetical advantages to persuing gals with little or no English, one advantage might be less competition.   If most of the guys don't want to have anything to do with someone with no common language that will definitely narrow the competion and give you a leg up in the selection process.

[jb]

Turbodude,

I still feel you may have had better luck with different techniques

I don't think my delivery technique is the issue here.  You've been reading my posts for the better part of a year and a half now, so has everybody else, you and P/G both know I rarely pull a punch, I simply tell you what I think.  Sugar coating a pill may make it easier to swallow for a child, but adults are supposed to be better than that.  Photodude was 52 y.o. at the beginning of this ordeal, what is he, 53 or 54 now?  Seems like he'd have toughened up a little by now.

[BC]

Communication is one of the ingredients involved to bake the cake we're talking about.  The less of this ingredient available will require more of others to make up for it.

Face to face interaction time and financial resources are some of the other essential ingredients involved.

I think you personally might be able to make up for a lack of language and communication skills because you obviously have the financial resources that allow you to have a lot of face to face time before and after proposing and eventual marriage.  I'm sure you can spend weeks and weeks living with a woman trying to get things jumpstarted with whatever communications aids are available.  You could send, heck even accompany her to one of the very best language schools if you wanted and sign up for an intensive RU course yourself as well.  You may be absolutely correct with everything you post according to your POV but this doesn't mean it will work for all... In fact your approach may better fit the very few. 

IMHO the 'pickled pecker' hardball method address the masses who simply do not have the tolerance to make big mistakes.  Think of MBT.. Military Basic Training..  TSGT Markham, the harshest man I ever knew made a man out of this kid.  Isn't it funny that I still remember his name and respect him today almost 30 years later?  Thousands of others probably feel the same.

The strong emotions of this venture MUST be balanced with a healthy respect of the practical aspects and resources involved.
 

[wiz]

BC

Excellent Post
...and I do remember my Maths and Physics teacher nickname to this day, BIG HEAD, for the same reasons you mentioned.

Turbo

" I can not even say for sure I am prepared to take the challenges.  I concentrate on gals with some English or better but do not totally rule out gals who don't. "

I get the impression that after 10 years and many trips there I think you enjoy mostly the shagging part of it......and I don't think you are serious looking for a future wife!

[BC]

I get the impression that after 10 years and many trips there I think you enjoy mostly the shagging part of it......and I don't think you are serious looking for a future wife!

Well... when he mentioned during his second trip that it may just have been one of those 'that time of month' events I wonder about the shagging part..  He should have known..

 

[jb]

that was bad of me...

[Turboguy]

Turbodude,

I don't think my delivery technique is the issue here.  You've been reading my posts for the better part of a year and a half now, so has everybody else,

Yes, and every disagreement we have had has been because of it.  I agree with many of the things you say, I just don't like the way you say them.  I think you do more harm than good in your efforts to help people.

[Turboguy]

IMHO the 'pickled pecker' hardball method address the masses who simply do not have the tolerance to make big mistakes.  Think of MBT.. Military Basic Training..  TSGT Markham, the harshest man I ever knew made a man out of this kid.  Isn't it funny that I still remember his name and respect him today almost 30 years later?  Thousands of others probably feel the same.
 

BC, you don't really say who you are addressing with that post but I am assuming it was me.   As far as resources available I think it is less important than the people involved and their motivation and goals.

As far as the MBT,  Sure, I still remember Sgt Dern my Drill instructor during basic at Ft Gorden and it has been longer than me.  Yes, I respect him but it does not mean I would want to emulate him unless I decide to become a drill instructor.  Are you saying RWD is the equivalent of basic training in the Army or are we doing to have to resort to the draft for RWD members.  Frankly I think if your view of RWD is like basic training you got some problems to deal with.

[Turboguy]

[Turbo

I get the impression that after 10 years and many trips there I think you enjoy mostly the shagging part of it......and I don't think you are serious looking for a future wife!

Wiz, if I was interested only in the shagging part I would really be a bigger looser than you guys think PG or I or some others are.   I have had lots of trips where there was nothing more than a kiss on the cheek.  For that kind of money I could go someplace like Amsterdam or Thailand and have a real blast or even to Moscow and just meet with hookers and forget the serious gals.

[jb]

T/G,

Yes, and every disagreement we have had has been because of it.

And this is the main reason I find myself posting less and less around here.  You, Peewee, and now Photoguy again, are hopeless cases, IMHO.  I swear I could post almost anything and depend on you guys to contradict me. 

Here ya go; "Most fire trucks are painted red", give it your best shot.

[BC]

BC, you don't really say who you are addressing with that post but I am assuming it was me.   As far as resources available I think it is less important than the people involved and their motivation and goals.

As far as the MBT,  Sure, I still remember Sgt Dern my Drill instructor during basic at Ft Gorden and it has been longer than me.  Yes, I respect him but it does not mean I would want to emulate him unless I decide to become a drill instructor.  Are you saying RWD is the equivalent of basic training in the Army or are we doing to have to resort to the draft for RWD members.  Frankly I think if your view of RWD is like basic training you got some problems to deal with.

Turbo,

Yes I was addressing your post.

Both you and I as businessmen, know that one can have the grandest of ideas or ideals but to actually put the wheels in motion takes resources.  Have, beg, borrow or steal they must be there to see the project through. Sure it may be less important than the motivation or goal, but it is essential.  When evaluating the cost of a project both in monetary terms and time I always add 50%. As it relates to RW and my experience, in this realm I would add 100% if not more..

Without the requisites it's sorta like smoking pot.. after a few hours *poof* and those grand dreamy ideas are worthless. 

In essence, RWD is a bit different from basic training in that there is really no personal contact involved.. just electrons that could fit on the point of a pin being shoved through copper wire. The message however is the same.. learn how to succeed!  There are newbies that wander into these virtual rooms looking for the 'low down' and they invariably get what they ask for.  Some may learn and some may bail but that's also quite ok.. As many before have said: 'This quest is not for everyone'.. I firmly believe it.

I surely have many problems to deal with.. those related to maintaining a happy relationship with my wife and doing the best I can so that our kids can develop into well rounded, successful and happy human beings.  Anything wrong with that?

Turbo I really think you could benefit from getting off your white horse every now and then.  There's nothing wrong with having terra firma under your feet.

[jb]

T/G,

I really haven't dumped on you in a while, but can you be that proud of your track record?

Your own inability to see lightning and hear thunder are the major reason you have invested 10 years of your life and untold thousands of USDs in the pursuit of a RW without success.  Before you criticise someone who has been successful, take a good hard look in the mirror, you might just find the bad guy looking back at you.

[Turboguy]

jb, surprise, I agree with you.   Most fire engnies are painted red according to anything I have observed. I am not sure about other countries but it does seem like a natural color for them.

BC,  I agree with your thoughts about a business.  I also think that if some of the people just getting into this knew how much this could cost them they might go back to Yahoo or Match and look for an AW.  You are totally right on that.

As far as smoking pot, I will take your word on it.  It is not a subject that I consider myself an expert on.

I agree there are newbies that stop here looking for the low down.  I don't think they come looking for a low blow.  I can not argue a bit that it is not right for everyone. 

Your priorities sound well founded to me.  I am not on a white horse.  I really don't care for horses that much.

jb.  I have no prob em with my track record.  I am certainly not ashamed of it.  I think RWD is a really valuable tool for those involved in this.  Until a year and a half ago, I did not have that resource and to be honest, it has helped me a lot.  It is a little like Edison and the light bulb.  Should he have been ashamed of his efforts when he failed to produce a working light bulb after 1000 tries or 5000 tries.  He just kept at it until he succeeded.  Many of my trips were when this was much harder, no internet, no easy way to get visas or hotel reservations, no one to compare notes about what worked or didn't.  Then a lot of my trips were trying to use a big agency romance tour and follow up trips to the scammers I met.  I had no RWD to let me know what a poor way the big agency romance tours were.  I did get a little smarter towards the end and mixed in some gals I had been writing to. Then there were the Luda trips.  Maybe they were a waste but I know I did all I could to make it succeed.  Take all those out and you have a handful of trips that do have me with a couple of good candidates.  As far as my own view of mistakes, I can't say Luda was not a mistake but given the same circumstances I doubt I would have done much different knowing what I knew then.  Now she would be gone after visit 2.  There is one gal in Kiev who I kick myself for not persuing harder.  That is the only thing I would do different.

jb,  You said Before you criticise someone who has been successful,   Might I remind you that you have never been successful at what I am trying to do.  You have never made a single trip looking for a wife.  You have no expertise on the subject.   Yes, you have a marriage that may be successful.  If I was married to an FSU woman and having problems then you would have some expertise in the area that might help me.

Now one last comment.   Since the subject is the importance of sharing a common language and I am saying it is a 6 or 7 and you are saying I am an idiot that it is even worse than a 9-10.  It is impossible.  tell me this Mr wise person.  How come 6-7 was the most popular opinion in the poll?

[PeeWee]

PeeWee, good post.  Shows a lot of common sense.  However if we were looking at hypothetical advantages to persuing gals with little or no English, one advantage might be less competition.   If most of the guys don't want to have anything to do with someone with no common language that will definitely narrow the competion and give you a leg up in the selection process.

Yes, I had thought about there being an advantage to the lady with little common communication skills because there would indeed be less competition. I, on the other hand, do not think about competition. I am faced with it in the business arena 5 or 6 days each and every week. I do not even worry about it. I play the odds. Odds are if I meet with 10 business clients that 4 of them will come aboard. Day in and day out, year after  year it is always the same. Same goes with women. I write ten letters to ten ten's, all of whom speak English, and I got me a few who will write me back. That's all I need to begin a history with the woman. Long history, short history...it makes little difference. The odds work for me and in the end I will eventually settle with someone.

With this philosophy one would then that I would be a WMVM type, but no. WOVO is what I like because I want to spend my full time with her. If the meeting is a bust then the back up is a little sightseening, go home early, go somewhere else, meet a lady somewhere. Something will happen. The odds tell me that.

Peewee

[PeeWee]

T/G,

And this is the main reason I find myself posting less and less around here.  You, Peewee, and now Photoguy again, are hopeless cases, IMHO.  I swear I could post almost anything and depend on you guys to contradict me. 

Here ya go; "Most fire trucks are painted red", give it your best shot.

I agree with you sometimes, jb. I do know why fire engines are red.

They are red because there are 12 inches in a ruler. Queen Elisabeth was a ruler. Queen Elisabeth was also the name of a ship. Ships sail the oceans. Oceans have fishes. Fishes have fins. The Finns fought the Russians. Russians are known as "Red". And that is why fire engines are red, because they are always rushin' around.

That was my best shot.

Peewee

[PeeWee]

T/G,

I really haven't dumped on you in a while, but can you be that proud of your track record?

Your own inability to see lightning and hear thunder are the major reason you have invested 10 years of your life and untold thousands of USDs in the pursuit of a RW without success.  Before you criticise someone who has been successful, take a good hard look in the mirror, you might just find the bad guy looking back at you.

I said it before. I did not realize there was a time limit set for this. I am in year 6 and could go the distance, or maybe not. I might pack it in after this next one and begin a search for a Chinese or Swedish lady. I do not know and I do not have a time limit set for my searching. In the end if I come away from this without an RW wife I can not have to think that I wasted my time or my money. I have had and will have a life time experience and I will have met some damn nice ladys along the way. The money part of it? I could have blown it on crack, jook, blow, booze, cars, ponies, whores, speed, crank, drugs, and not been a better person than what I think that I am now. Turbo is doing his thing and I have not heard him bitching about how it did it, when he did it, or why he did it.

Peewee

Peewee

[ronin308]

My personal experience with the language barrier allows me to reflect on the challenges presented by it.  Firstly I think there is a huge difference between a girl who had a some english in school and forgot it vs one who was never exposed to it.  I am not using this to justify my own decision which was to start our relationship with the help of a terp.

From our first conversations it was apparent she understood some of the words I was speaking but not entire sentences.  Yes, there was the typical non-verbal communication, smiles etc.  That does help, but without the terp it is impossible to know what she is smiling at.  After 4 days of lunch/dinner dates I decided to do a little test by having the 2 of us watch a movie alone.  I wanted to see what it would be like with just the 2 of us and our limited communication skills.  We were able to get basic needs accross but not much more.

After I left she began english lessons and we went from the first phone call where we couldn't understand each other to about 1 1/2 months later where could plan a trip and the many nuances.  My experiences from that trip was we could communicate on a basic level but we had some major difficulties at a few moments.  The jump she made in communications in a short time was only accomplished due to her studying a lot and the fact that she had some classes in the past.

A year later we are able to communicate most advanced things but still have some problems with vocabulary here and there.  We were both lucky and cursed the I-129F hasn't come through so we could develop our relationship on a more normal schedule. 

Knowning what I know now, while not speaking fluent english when we met would not be a criteria, she should have some basic "potential" in the form of prior classes or understanding.  After my experience my "stock" recommendation would be 3-4 visits of 2 weeks over a 8-12 month period.  By the 2nd visit you should be able to spend most if not all of your time together without a terp. 

If not depending on the circumstances for the good of the girl it might be better to terminate the relationship.  That might seem harsh but if you truely loved the girl you'd understand how cruel it would be to put her in an environment where she will be 100% dependant on you for everything and she probably cannot even tell you what she means beyond basic words.  To me this is similiar to the discussion in the past about terminating a relationship because he not longer wanted a kid but she did.  Sometimes the true act of love is to let go and not cling to the truely impossible.

To those who talk about success and failure, walking down this road is more than just that.  Think of it like a hiking trip, those who don't rush into it when faced with a challenge like a sudden rain shower will be able to stay dry and comfortable since they brought their rain gear where those who rushed into it without planning will still be able to complete the hike only they will be wet and cold when they do. 

To bring this back on point a better question isn't how important for her to speak english as much as how well can she learn/relearn it and how patient will the suitor be if it takes a while to do it?  After all do we want to be dry and comfortable or wet and cold?


BTW many airports paint their firetrucks a flourescent green, in california many county fire trucks are white and in some cases yellow.

[jb]

The money part of it? I could have blown it on crack, jook, blow, booze, cars, ponies, whores, speed, crank, drugs, and not been a better person than what I think that I am now. Turbo is doing his thing and I have not heard him bitching about how it did it, when he did it, or why he did it.

Now there's a thought, I do wonder where he spent the money, it certainly wasn't on logic lessons. 

Don't enter new information in to an argument if you don't want it questioned.....

[PeeWee]

Now there's a thought, I do wonder where he spent the money, it certainly wasn't on logic lessons. 

Don't enter new information in to an argument if you don't want it questioned.....

LOL! Say what, jb? Now you are beginning to not make sense. I always want what I argue questioned. Not the reverse. I think tubro spent the money on Rw and he does sound logical to me. I wonder had Turbo been a chain smoke how much money he would have blown away on cigarettes? Would he have spent more on tobacco or RW? What would he acheived by it? He would have acheived his beginning stages of lung cancer and he would be well on his way to what it is that we all aspire too...that would be death.

An foreign wife just might be less expensive, in the long run, and more rewarding than a case of cancer and a deathwish. I think that Turbo is doing just fine in that regard.

Peewee

Peewee