How important is it for her to Speak English

[PeeWee]

What was the topic of this thread again? 

Sounds like there are some bad gamblers here.  Anything is possible but what are the odds of having a successful relationship with someone you cannot communicate with.  Would you take those odds in Vegas?  If so then I have some land to sell you.

To me arguing that it is possible is a mute point.  Sure anything is possible but the odds are against you.  I don't understand how people can argue otherwise.

There are those odds again. There is nothing wrong with this logic. Almost everything in life has a degree of risk assigned to it. This process of marriage has a risk and the more complications that one heaps upon this process the greater the chance that one will not realize the results that he had hoped for. I said before that I all for the keep it simple approach. One of my cardinal requirements is that she must speak the language well enough for me to talk to her.

Peewee

[PeeWee]

Perhaps he just doesn't hold FSU dentistry and the lack of floride in the water in high regard.  It seems to me there have been a lot of discussions about the teeth problems in the FSU.  PeeWee is just stating a fact of life.  I think part of what he said was intended as a joke but some people don't have much of a sense of humor.

True, it was a joke. It flat flew over the heads of some it seems. The joke flys over the head and I determine that I need to next find a taller person before I tell it again.

Peewee

[PeeWee]

I agree with a lot of the things you say PeeWee but I don't think my program is "catch and release"  I also don't think like some of the others that I am looking for a trophy to have mounted and hang on the wall.  I do agree that I am doing just fine.   Sometimes things fall into place quickly, sometimes they take a little more time.

I did say "own brand". I figure some day you will spot the one that will be the "keeper". In the meantime you continue to cast your net, as we all do or have done. I do know of a sweet little lady who lives in Vlad-k. Now there would be a catch for you, Turbo.

Peewee

[wiz]

I also don't think like some of the others that I am looking for a trophy to have mounted and hang on the wall.  I do agree that I am doing just fine.   

Sometimes things fall into place quickly, sometimes they take a little more time.

From another post of yours:

We have now had 3 visits and about 25 days together and had 6 more planned on the trip I had to cancel for health reasons) 

The goal is to find someone right for me and who I am right for and to build a happy marriage. 

So how many meetings and how much time do you need to have before you realise that you are going or not the right direction?

After 10 years of experience with RW you should know right from the 1st or 2nd meeting if she is right to pursuit or not!

Last June, as you know, I travelled to Kiev to meet this other woman Nat and I knew by the 3rd day together that she was not going to be the right one:

Nobody will ever change the fact that men are visual creatures. It simply will never happen. Some like them slender and some like their women to be on the large side. As for me, I prefer an average woman who enjoy her femininity.

Nat was attractive, had all the above and more and I did enjoyed the close encounter with her BUT when it came down to her character then Red flags started coming up despite her efforts to please me in every way!

I wouldn't like to talk about all the Red flags because deep down she is a nice woman, we are still friends and talk daily, about every kind of subjects on ICQ, But I don't think she is the right woman for me!

To be honest I was surprised yesterday by her telling me: "You are a nice person and I like you very much but I don't think I am the right person for you!. Our personalities are so different and the only think we both enjoy together is talking politics and sex!"

For your information she is very open and I know she is not dating or talking to any other man at the moment!
She has introduced me to her sister, daughter and other relatives, while I was there and her own daughter has told me that "my mother is a little difficult person to get on!"

So one down from my list. Of course I will meet her again and take her out for dinner next time I go to Kiev, but just as friends.

WAS READY TO POST and got the message that a new reply.........

So here my replies to your comments:

The only people who never fail are those who never try

Ten years travelling and meeting FSU women, I think is enough time to admit failure in your part. Have you ever wonder why? It must have something to do with your character and not with the women you met!

Communication is not necessarily related to language skills.  Communication is about sharing what is in your mind and your heart and can be done with a translation program.  Go back a few pages and re-read my post about my ex wife who had very good English skills.  I was never so lonely in my life as I was when I was with her

Communication is the ability to express your feelings, opinions, views and be understood by the other person.

Talking about a translation program is a lot of rubbish because the translation can not express your emotions, the tone and meaning of your voice etc. and while you are having a dinner in a restaurant with your darling.......you have your pocket translator with you? Bull*snip*!

Don't forget to take it with you while having sex........you will need the translation for your actions too and she can tell you her feelings etc! Get real!

I was never so happy as when I deluded myself to think I had found what I wanted with Luda and could give up chasing women.  I think you are only a year away from the three year mark youself so remember if it doesn't work this your you want to hang it up.  Quitters never win.

I only started Last August looking seriously and I spent most of my time, during the winter and spring perfecting my plan and clearing up Dead wood to finally reach only 6 women.

Prior to that I was not having any thoughts of finding a woman in Ukraine and while on business there and in Greece I was playing the field with FSU women, having a good time. I have to add that I also had some outstanding problems to resolve with my ex G/F before embarking on this quest!

Now I have my plan in operation and take it step by step because I do not want to waste more time, especially as I am semi-retired!

I have never been a quitter in my life but I always preferred to take calculating risks. I don't go fishing without my bate as you seen to have done so far!

Then tell me if you think it is so bad, why you do it.

My part time job is travel and I have to be at the office (home), and as I said before I am doing also web design to to earn pocket money. Of course I have to be here to answer the phone and also I depend on other people to supply me the necessary material for my web job. I also take every chance to travel abroad too.

When business is slack or have nothing else to do I read the board and of course I post my views. The last couple of days I had very little to do but when I have work I disappear.... and I do not post in every subject like you do!

If you look you will find last week just very few of my postings and all small. Communicating with my women takes little time now and normally happens after office hours.


If the experts here would have tried to be more helpful and less hurtful it might have done more good but let's not get back into that.

Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind!

Do not blame people offering honest advice.

Stop finding excuses for something that was doomed from the start and was glaring in your face! MISSION IMPOSSIBLE!

You can't have it both ways.

[PeeWee]

]

Ten years travelling and meeting FSU women, I think is enough time to admit failure in your part. Have you ever wonder why? It must have something to do with your character and not with the women you met!

[]

I only started Last August looking seriously and I spent most of my time, during the winter and spring perfecting my plan and clearing up Dead wood to finally reach only 6 women.

Prior to that I was not having any thoughts of finding a woman in Ukraine and while on business there and in Greece I was playing the field with FSU women, having a good time. I have to add that I also had some outstanding problems to resolve with my ex G/F before embarking on this quest!

Now I have my plan in operation and take it step by step because I do not want to waste more time, especially as I am retired!

I have never been a quitter in my life but I always preferred to take calculating risks. I don't go fishing without my bate as you seen to have done so far!

Wiz, I noted your fishing reference there. Bait. FYI, there is one fish that can be caught with a bare hook. No bait required. The Sockeye salmon. As far as we can determine it is the only way to catch one while using fishing tackle.

Total time, including your time "playing the field" (dating), what have you invested in this effort?

Peewee

[wiz]

Wiz, I noted your fishing reference there. Bait. FYI, there is one fish that can be caught with a bare hook. No bait required. The Sockeye salmon. As far as we can determine it is the only way to catch one while using fishing tackle.

Total time, including your time "playing the field" (dating), what have you invested in this effort?

Peewee

Now you are fishing.......LOL

Not a fisherman so you know better but I like eating fresh salmon though!

I see you are a grammar fanatic so I will be using my spell check from now on!

No I was not dating...........just having fun....

I met my last g/f in November 1984 and our relationship went drastically wrong in Xmas 2003. .....so start counting from there.

[BC]

We end up going in circles again and again.

Learning from experience can only be helpful when you can determine what you did right and what you did wrong along the way.

It's not about 'It worked' or 'It didn't work' as we so often discuss again and again.  There are many components involved.

Try it.. take a piece of paper, draw a line down the middle and at the top in the two columns put 'Right' and 'Wrong'

Then write as many details as you can think of in each column within a 10 minute timeframe.

Feel free to post your results or keep them to yourself. Doesn't really matter as long as you are honest with yourself.

I think some might even end up looking at two empty columns.

If you find yourself puzzled or end up with a very short list then maybe you should step back for a while and re-evaluate because in essence from all your experiences you haven't learned squat and will not get very far until you do.

[Turboguy]

I did say "own brand". I figure some day you will spot the one that will be the "keeper". In the meantime you continue to cast your net, as we all do or have done. I do know of a sweet little lady who lives in Vlad-k. Now there would be a catch for you, Turbo.

Peewee

Yes, I had another nice chat with her the other day.  She would be a catch.

[PeeWee]

Now you are fishing.......LOL

Not a fisherman so you know better but I like eating fresh salmon though!

I see you are a grammar fanatic so I will be using my spell check from now on!

No I was not dating...........just having fun....

I met my last g/f in November 1984 and our relationship went drastically wrong in Xmas 2003. .....so start counting from there.

I am far from being a grammar fanatic. That function is why proofreaders and editors were invented. I just type. Someone else can follow along and clean up my mess.

Ok, we count from 2003 until 2006 and that is 3 years. I count 6 years time in the trenches. Turbo lost count at 10 years. Let's assume that Turbo, you, and I have all learned something about this process in equal doses. Turbo is 3 times more experienced than you are and roughly 40% more experienced than I am. He is 10 times more knowledge than the guy who has but one year time invested. I'd consider what he is saying if I were the beginner just because he has some seniority.

Let's go back to the fishing analogy. I am going to spend a lot of money on a first time fly-in salmon trip to Alaska with either my buddy, who has been there once and somehow managed to catch a fish, or I am going to spead a few more bucks and hire a guide who knows a lot about the waters and the habits of the fish. My chance of success rest with which of those two men? The answer goes without saying.

The only thing that I see Turbo not accomplishing in his vast timeand  experiences is that he is not yet married. It is argueable if that is a success or not. But what it does show me is that Turbo does know a lot more about this than some of us do, simply based on his time in the field.

He did make an intersting comment. Does the man who happened to meet an RW when he was not looking to meet one any more qualified to advise a man on how to find an RW?

Peewee
 

[Turboguy]

So how many meetings and how much time do you need to have before you realise that you are going or not the right direction?

Usually guys get knocked for doing things too quicly.  You promoting one week wonders Wiz?

After 10 years of experience with RW you should know right from the 1st or 2nd meeting if she is right to pursuit or not!

Sometimes when I am sure they are not I know it in 10 minutes.  I haven't stopped persuing the gal from Rostov.  I am just not going to start any paperwork till I am darn sure.  That a bad thing Wiz


WAS READY TO POST and got the message that a new reply.........

So here my replies to your comments:

The only people who never fail are those who never try

Ten years travelling and meeting FSU women, I think is enough time to admit failure in your part. Have you ever wonder why? It must have something to do with your character and not with the women you met!

Well which of the scammers that I met should I have married.  Maybe Lena from Petersburg who I met at an EC social and in a five day follow up visit spent $ 3000.00 on the ground not counting hotel of which $ 800-1000 probably ended up in her pocket, or which of the nut cases.  Maybe the one who spent all her time screaming at her parents or the one who's favorite form of fun was to aim her car at crowds of people, push the gas pedal to the floor, lay her hand on the horn and watch everyone jumping for tier life as she was laughing like crazy.  There was no RWD in those days.  I had to learn from experinece, mostly bad.

Communication is not necessarily related to language skills.  Communication is about sharing what is in your mind and your heart and can be done with a translation program.  Go back a few pages and re-read my post about my ex wife who had very good English skills.  I was never so lonely in my life as I was when I was with her

Communication is the ability to express your feelings, opinions, views and be understood by the other person.

Talking about a translation program is a lot of rubbish because the translation can not express your emotions, the tone and meaning of your voice etc. and while you are having a dinner in a restaurant with your darling.......you have your pocket translator with you? Bull*snip*!

Don't forget to take it with you while having sex........you will need the translation for your actions too and she can tell you her feelings etc! Get real!  

Tell me wiz, what do you talk about during sex, the weather, world events, maybe your childhood.

I was never so happy as when I deluded myself to think I had found what I wanted with Luda and could give up chasing women.  I think you are only a year away from the three year mark youself so remember if it doesn't work this your you want to hang it up.  Quitters never win.

I only started Last August looking seriously and I spent most of my time, during the winter and spring perfecting my plan and clearing up Dead wood to finally reach only 6 women.

So you are a novice at this pretending to be an expert.

Prior to that I was not having any thoughts of finding a woman in Ukraine and while on business there and in Greece I was playing the field with FSU women, having a good time. I have to add that I also had some outstanding problems to resolve with my ex G/F before embarking on this quest!

Now I have my plan in operation and take it step by step because I do not want to waste more time, especially as I am semi-retired!

I had my plan in operation in 1996 and probably thought it was as good as you think yours is now.  You never find out it is not until the end of the book

I have never been a quitter in my life but I always preferred to take calculating risks. I don't go fishing without my bate as you seen to have done so far!

Personally fishing is not my favorite sport.

If the experts here would have tried to be more helpful and less hurtful it might have done more good but let's not get back into that.

Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind!  Bull

Do not blame people offering honest advice.  We have already talked way to much about that.

Stop finding excuses for something that was doomed from the start and was glaring in your face! MISSION IMPOSSIBLE!  

You can't have it both ways.
Can't have what in both ways

[Turboguy]

Turbo.
I don't follow your logic (oh what a surprise  )  I was successful in transgressing the treacherous waters involved with the process of finding, romancing, relocating, marrying, going through the her transition to a different culture and staying happily married to a RW for 7 years.  Nah, I don't know nothin 
KenC

KenC,  I am not saying you don't know "nothin"  I was saying you have no experience in persuing an FSU bride and the processes and hurdles involved.  My understanding is you met your beatiful bride without really looking as did jb.  You have not had to use Elenas, European Connections, or agencies or made a single trip looking for the right gal to spend your life with.   You have no idea how hard or easy it is except for what you read here.   You are a very knowlagable person with good ideas and good adivice.   You have never had some of the experinces and disappointments that I and some of the others have had.   

[wiz]

Turbo

I have never claimed to be an expert! In my plan I try to use common sense to avoid pitfalls.

Like it or not is universally accepted, even by you, that if the woman speaks good English, in our case, then you have better chances to have good communication and develop a better understanding and good relationship.

However I get the impression what ever I answer, you just enjoy talking and debating for the sake of it! That is obvious from your prolific posting on the board.

No more comments about this subject from me.

Good night

[Turboguy]

Turbo.
OK, you are into generalizing your facts like Photo did in his post.  I rattled off maybe ten guys that seem to have good long term marriages when they had a common language, name some that didn't please.

KenC[/b]

I can't name 10 KenC.  Here is what I can name

1.  SOC & Iryna.  Maybe not real long term and maybe not bump free but getting longer term every day.

2.  Helen from Tver & Steve from S.F., who had a rough spot in their marriage about 3 years in but are now somewhere around 5-6 years and currently very happy and living in Hawaii.  Helen arrived in the USA knowing one sentence of English "I am hungry"  She is now totally fluent.

3.  Oxana and Joe  Oxana is a Ukrainian gal and Joe is an X steelworker from Aliquippa Pa.  She arrived in the USA knowing next to no English and they are now in a very happy marriage that has lasted somewhere around 3 years.  Oxana was Luda's friend she met in ESL classes.  I have talked about her in a post.

4.  There is one more that I will not name.  He is a member of RWD but does not post.  He likes to read the posts and PM'd me about his adventures and misadventures on his way to creating a very happy and wonderful marriage with his bride.  His bride had little or no English.  They seem to have the kind of marriage we all dream of.   Since he chooses to remain anonymous I will respect that.

[KenC]

I can't name 10 KenC.  Here is what I can name

1.  SOC & Iryna.  Maybe not real long term and maybe not bump free but getting longer term every day.

2.  Helen from Tver & Steve from S.F., who had a rough spot in their marriage about 3 years in but are now somewhere around 5-6 years and currently very happy and living in Hawaii.  Helen arrived in the USA knowing one sentence of English "I am hungry"  She is now totally fluent.

3.  Oxana and Joe  Oxana is a Ukrainian gal and Joe is an X steelworker from Aliquippa Pa.  She arrived in the USA knowing next to no English and they are now in a very happy marriage that has lasted somewhere around 3 years.  Oxana was Luda's friend she met in ESL classes.  I have talked about her in a post.

4.  There is one more that I will not name.  He is a member of RWD but does not post.  He likes to read the posts and PM'd me about his adventures and misadventures on his way to creating a very happy and wonderful marriage with his bride.  His bride had little or no English.  They seem to have the kind of marriage we all dream of.   Since he chooses to remain anonymous I will respect that.

1386 member here and you name one and allude to another.  I rest my case.
KenC

[Turboguy]

Good, your case could use a rest. 

[Photo Guy]

1- KenC, how can you so easily discount Turbo's examples?
2- If a guy succeeds quickly and easily, that does NOT necessarily
  indicate a wiser course of action.
3- If a guy marries his high school sweetheart, does that make him
more knowledgeable about pursuing and finding the ideal woman,
than a guy who finds his ideal mate after his failed first marriage, at
age 43?
4- My one course of action had very little to do with separation
due to health problems.
5- Be sure to check her teeth, her spleen, her liver, and spinal
column.
6- If you love her, how much are you willing to spend on her
health problems?

[PeeWee]

Every one has an expertice gained from their varied experinces. For me this process involves three phases. 1. discovery phase. 2. visa and document process phase. 3. marriage phase.

The guys, like Turbo or Wiz and most of the rest of us should have a good working knowledge of the discovery phase if we have been into this for a few years. I have no clue, other than what I read here what happens during phase 2 but when I get there then I will pay attention to that. All I need care about right now is how I am going to nurture my recent discovery.

Peewee

[Bruno]

6- If you love her, how much are you willing to spend on her
health problems?

Everything i have !!!

Really a strange question... if you marry someone, it is for the good AND the bad...

And what about own health problem... maybe not now but in some year... remember that almost all men marry RW younger them themself, and that women life more long that the men... So, who will spend a lot of time with a men who will have health problem at the end of his life...

So question show that you are not ready to marry, that you think only about yourself !

[wiz]

Every one has an expertice gained from their varied experinces. For me this process involves three phases. 1. discovery phase. 2. visa and document process phase. 3. marriage phase.

The guys, like Turbo or Wiz and most of the rest of us should have a good working knowledge of the discovery phase if we have been into this for a few years. I have no clue, other than what I read here what happens during phase 2 but when I get there then I will pay attention to that. All I need care about right now is how I am going to nurture my recent discovery.

Peewee

Peewee

When I meet my women, I just act normally, speak very honestly and open about myself and life and what I expect from them, and never try to impress and give them the wrong idea.

Either they like me as I am or good luck to them!

[Jet]

I said it before, I am checking the condition of her teeth and gums before I make my final decision. Even with horses we check their teeth, do we not? Ever buy a used car and not have a mechanic put his blessing on its mechanical condition. A ship's hull is surveyed and a home appraised all before sale. And men and women are exempt from this? Does not a part of her visa process require a medical exam? Some one thought to look.

OK this seems to be a fundamental difference between you and I PeeWee. I've NEVER had to have a mechanic check out a used car purchase, or drag a surveyor to a boatyard. The reason is because I educated myself beforehand, to a point where I was comfortable making assessments for myself.

As far as the Medical Exam, they check for communicable diseases that may be spread amongst the US citizenry, nothing more. It was not designed to give any forewarnings in cases such as Photo's.

[Turboguy]

1386 member here and you name one and allude to another.  I rest my case.
KenC

Ken, first off I don't really care what I convince you of or not but if you go back and read your question you did not ask for members who have done it.  You asked for people who have done it.  If you ask the right question you may get the right answer.   I gave you a perfectly good answer to the question as you worded it.

As far as the people I named, I have talked about Helen in more than a dozen previous posts including mentioning that she knew no English when she arrived.  She is the gal who got me back into this after the last scammer I met at the first EC social was one too many scammers and I threw in the towel.  Had she not contacted me during the time when there were some problems in her marriage I would not be here posting this.  I would be dating some fat AW.

As far as Oxana, she has also been mentioned in a lot of my previous posts.  They are not people I invented and all you asked for was people.

Yes, out of the more than 1000 members I can or am willing to name 1 and allude to one.  Out of all those members how many really post on a regular and current basis.  Maybe 80 or 100.  How many do I really know much about, maybe 40 or 50.  There are a lot of people who come here to learn and to read.  Some of the ones that don't post probably don't because you and jb and leslie scare the shoot out of them.  As far as the guy I alluded to I have mentioned in some posts the nice apartment my friend in Moscow rents out for $ 65.00 a night.  He and his wife will be staying there starting the 13 for two weeks and otherwise I am sure he would have kept his silence.  He just happened to tell me his story as we pm'd about the apt.   For something that you feel is totally impossible and that no one can do I have named 4 people who have done what you say is impossible.  4 real couples that represent a measurable percentage of the AM-RW couples I know.  It is far from a piece of cake but it can be done.

I have to go along with Jet, Bruno and Wiz on this.  I would not send a gal for a cat scan and MRI before I decided to propose.  If I fell in love with someone I would do so with the intention of being there for the good or bad life threw our way including any health problems.

On PeeWees side of the case, If I met a gal who had 12 months to live, I probably would not propose.  I might try to help her if some money for medical care would help.  I am sure if I knew she had a severe and chronic medical condition it might be one of the factors I would consider.  The closest I can think of to a real life experience I had along these lines was I young gal I wrote to probably around 97 who had  severely retarded son who was about 4.  It did make me think a lot about whether I was willing to take on that responsability.  As it was we never ended up meeting so it did not become an issue.

Wiz, I agree with you that you need to be yourself.  There are people who pretend to be something they are not and to me that is a foolish thing to do unless you want to live a lie your whole life.  Sorta like people who send 20 year old photos, and there are a few.  It might get you more initial letters but won't get you anywhere in the end.  Might even cost you someone who would have accepted you the way you were if you didn't lie about it.

[wiz]

Turbo

Give it a break. You have a tiny number of examples to support your case and some of them doubtful!

Just follow your own words:  "Of course you have better chances to have a better relationship with a woman who can speak good English" (or something to that effect) and that you chase women on that category!

Wiz, I agree with you that you need to be yourself.  There are people who pretend to be something they are not and to me that is a foolish thing to do unless you want to live a lie your whole life.  Sorta like people who send 20 year old photos, and there are a few.  It might get you more initial letters but won't get you anywhere in the end.  Might even cost you someone who would have accepted you the way you were if you didn't lie about it.

My Russian friend Olga ( I call her friend as we only met one time for now) caught by surprise when we met in Kos, because I was very open and honest with her about everything and she said several times that she can't believe it if that was possible;

Now she is getting used to my brutal honesty and obviously she likes it so she is also opening a lot and talk honestly to me.

I am confident that if our relationship continue to blossom then she will not be under any illusions about my character, financial circumstances etc and if we finally push the boat to the position of getting married I will be sure that she is marrying me
for WHAT I AM and not for what I have projected to her.

Lies, somehow, have the unwelcome habit to come to the surface at the wrong times and then you loose the trust which you have build in your relationship. If that is gone might as well go and live alone again.

PS: Now go and do somework you will lneed the money to travel soon......LOL

[jb]

I agree, T/G needs to get a grip and give it a rest. 

When I brought this up I specifically referred to the percentage of this membership which might be pointed out as having done a successful marriage to a woman with no English skills.  I'm quite sure KenC was on board with that when he commented that there was one, with another possible.

I'm not going to get out a calculator to exactly figure the odds, but rough numbers tell me the percentages are around .13%(+/-).  So T/G and P/G are definitely spending a lot of effort defending a decidedly minority portion of the boards membership.  I don't think anyone is going to Vegas to wager large sums, much less his future life, with those odds.

It makes me think there should be an addition to the Commandments..."Never propose marriage to a woman that you cannot communicate one-on-one with."

Whadda ya think?

 

[Turboguy]

I would be more than happy to give it a rest.

Ken's question was worded "people" 

If my position is so wrong how come more people voted for it in the poll than your postion.

[BC]

It makes me think there should be an addition to the Commandments..."Never propose marriage to a woman that you cannot communicate one-on-one with."
 

Another more PC version might be:

If you cannot communicate one-on-one with a woman, wait until you can before proposing.