Language Barrier!

[dlinetackle]

My wife is amazing, but I would advise anyone,including FSU women, to certainly also be open to dating locally.

That is also something that I have questions about. There seems to be quite a lot of success stories on here. Have you all thought about networking. You know the friend of a friend of a friend kind of situation.  Sorry if it's already been done or proposed. Just a thought.

[Jumper]

I always think it's a good idea, right up until i remember tthat almost all incidences of trying to play matchmaker come back to bite you lol.

But yes i would think networking would be one of the better ways.
 And there is a post somewhat recentky on here by a member(s) that had contact info for their wives friends

[dlinetackle]

Oh how that can be so true.  Especially if things go terrible quickly. But at the same time. I personally believe that individuals with the same moral code, outlook on life and personality kind of stick together. So if someone finds a "good" FSUW then that individual with more than likely have acquaintances that are similar. 

[Sting23]

dlinetackle- what is your level of Russian right now?  If it's an absolute beginner then I wouldn't bother with learning Russian.  I've been studying it on and off for several years and have lived in Russia for close to half a year.  Even then I can only converse simply like "hi, how's your day blah blah.." and do basic things like order food or ask for directions.  But certainly not enough to have deep conversations.

There are enough Russians that speak good English but it takes effort to find them.  If you go to a dating site specifically geared for Russian/Ukrainian etc locals chances are over 90% will have poor English.

Better to just find a girl who can speak.  I have dated a few who had poor English and it got very frustrating not being able to communicate.  It's no fun having to pull out a translator every 5 minutes.

[Trenchcoat]

Better to just find a girl who can speak.  I have dated a few who had poor English and it got very frustrating not being able to communicate.  It's no fun having to pull out a translator every 5 minutes.

I found the same, the fun of the translation app with the girl gets a bit of a pain for both sides after a while. It can have a fun curious element at first wondering what the other person is going to ask but after a while it gets a bit frustration as does not being able to converse with the girl well. Just a case of the girl getting up to speed with English. Translator is still better than nothing but you tend to rely on it a bit at least till the girls English gets better. The worse her English is the worse a real in depth conversation is about of the question and that I think is important for the relationship to get into her inner/actual life.

Even still with it being a pain and though I prefer a girl had better English I still don't quite rule them out it just narrows the filed down too much. Finding a girl with chemistry is hard enough limiting the field I think narrows the odds a lot and makes it less likely, possible but less likely.

[dlinetackle]

Yeah I understand the pain of the translation. Was speaking with a nice lady from Voronezh until yesterday. She said the language barrier was too much of an hindrance. Which I completely agreed with. She wasn't particularly looking for a westerner. We just found each other on Russian-Personals. But It seemed as though there was chemistry. Just not enough to overcome the communication issues.

[Sting23]

Realistically it will not work unless the woman you are talking to has a decent grasp of English and can hold a conversation with you.   

[msmob]

Realistically it will not work unless the woman you are talking to has a decent grasp of English and can hold a conversation with you.

Hmmm, there are plenty of guys and ladies that made it work (initial lang barrier - before all the modern phone apps ) ...that suggest otherwise

[BillyB]

How have you guys overcame the language barrier?

Some people get over it and some people don't. If you get involved with a woman and there is a language barrier, there will be misunderstandings. If you and her are tolerant, the relationship will survive until you both speak a common language. After you both truly understand each other and learn who you've married, no guarantees the relationship will survive after that.

[kynrazor]

After you both truly understand each other and learn who you've married, no guarantees the relationship will survive after that.

  No money back guarantee eh? 

[Sting23]

Hmmm, there are plenty of guys and ladies that made it work (initial lang barrier - before all the modern phone apps ) ...that suggest otherwise

I guess it works for certain individuals.... if there's a will there's a way.  Just saying for me it didn't work.  Being on a date and having to consciously speak very simply so they can understand, not being able to make jokes or being misunderstood.

And in any case if the end goal is for the woman to move to your country she'll need English or whatever native language it is to communicate.

[Jumper]

Some people get over it and some people don't. If you get involved with a woman and there is a language barrier, there will be misunderstandings. If you and her are tolerant, the relationship will survive until you both speak a common language. After you both truly understand each other and learn who you've married, no guarantees the relationship will survive after that.

That's one of the best posts I've seen on the issue.

[Bounder]

I don't want to sound too clever here -- but --  a good phone is probably the greatest development for the current day mob'er !  ( or anyone in a foreign language world)
EG -- you can use your phone to translate what is being said around you --even to record and digest later.
You can listen and/or see translation in real time -- and without anyone knowing !!!! It will not be a perfect translation -- but enough to get the jist of what is being said !!!
Using an earpiece can also be ok in some circumstances - eg where you may be listening to music .

Oh, don't worry!  You're not sounding TOO clever!! 

Do you actually use this technology?  You sound too optimistic me thinks.

As to recording conversation around you and listening to it later?  Have we officially entered loser-ville?  Might as well just find a free internet/youtube course to do if you are thinking of going that route....

[Bounder]

OP - I moved to Moscow 10 months ago and I've already learned piles of Russian.  And there is still a very very long way to go, but I can actually have simple, sustained conversations when people understand what my abilities are.  So that's always an option for you.

I think it's good that you're interested in learning the language of your potential future mate.  As you've already noticed, some here don't think it is AT ALL important to know the language of the significant other.  I can't say definitively what's in their minds, but it seems like it's some kind of economic zero sum game for them (E.G. I PAY your way to MY COUNTRY and SUPPORT YOU and therefore they feel they have no obligation to do anything further.  Besides they are IN MY COUNTRY NOW AND HERE WE SPEAK ENGLISH, so what's the point; honestly, I don't get it and probably I'm mischaracterizing the situations of these guys as a result)

[mendeleyev]

It is very much appreciated when you make the effort to begin learning and Skype lessons with a Russian or Ukrainian based teacher can be as low as $10 per hour, for a good teacher.

Once you begin to pick up some language skills it is like crossing into a whole new world. The benefits of understanding, listening, and conversing at some level will yield long-term benefits to your marriage, your mental health, etc.

We humans respond best to lovemaking in the language of the heart. That is the language you first learned as a child. Being able to intimately demonstrate care and love for your Russian spouse, in her love language, is something that just cannot be explained--but it positively changes the dynamic of that experience.

Learn as much as you can.

[2tallbill]

No money back guarantee eh? 

I got a life time guarantee with my wife, you just gotta shop for the best deal.
She told me if anything goes wrong with our marriage that she will keeel me,
so I don't need to worry about any such problems. 

[calmissile]

It is very much appreciated when you make the effort to begin learning and Skype lessons with a Russian or Ukrainian based teacher can be as low as $10 per hour, for a good teacher.

Once you begin to pick up some language skills it is like crossing into a whole new world. The benefits of understanding, listening, and conversing at some level will yield long-term benefits to your marriage, your mental health, etc.

We humans respond best to lovemaking in the language of the heart. That is the language you first learned as a child. Being able to intimately demonstrate care and love for your Russian spouse, in her love language, is something that just cannot be explained--but it positively changes the dynamic of that experience.

Learn as much as you can.

Welcome back Mendy.  It's been a while and many of us have missed your posts.  Happy New Year to you and your family.

[gaspar227]

I know this topic is old, but I wanted to put my 2 cents in since I originally started replying without having any real meaningful interactions with RW back in January and have struggled with this even with the best apps and electronic tools available. 

I had a sustained relationship virtual/real with a young lady who proclaimed her English was poor.  I, of course, being encouraging ensured her that her English was very good, as I seemed to be able to understand everything she was saying.  She would answer me in an appropriate way for the most part and I thought that things were good.  This is both written and verbally. 

I also popped for the dreaded English lessons, and I actually went with her to school once -- the teacher highly praised the effort level of my lady friend.

I've detailed the disaster this turned out to be in other threads, but I have since begun talking to another young lady with almost exactly the same language skills. 

Boring, right.  However... I am now convinced that these women can speak English pretty well.  BUT, their understanding of English (at least American English) is at least 2-3 levels below their speaking.  Which is completely opposite of what i would expect -- for instance I can understand Spanish at least 2-3 levels above what I can speak with minimal practice.  And this has always been what I would consider normal for foreign language. And it sucks you into thinking you can do things like joke, or make innuendos...and it just fails. 

The first girl...she was basically hearing questions and reading my body language and responding how she thought appropriate.   The second lady as well, she talks wonderfully in English but cannot understand.  And it's deceiving because you think you're having a dandy conversation and later on you will mention something she emphatically agreed on only to find out that she had no understanding of what was said and now is pissed off/incredulous because she would never have agreed to whatever it was!

Further exasperating for me is that they all learn her majesty's English (which makes sense).  If you are from America and on "Vacation" they will think you have last your job or something -- you need to say you're on Holiday.  The vowels are all different, the idiomatics, etc, which we can struggle through from America/Brittan  because we know English and we can piece together context, but for these ladies it's almost another language.

I totally plan on learning as much Russian as I can, but it's very difficult for me, but if I lived with a Russian speaker I would want to learn the language so at least I know what she's telling her mom about me while i'm listening to her talk on the phone .   

So that's my 2 cents.(granted a very limited data set) 

1.  They speak better than they understand in my opinion -- so be careful how you push things.
2.  If you're American it's less likely they will understand your English.

[DaveNY]

I know this topic is old, but I wanted to put my 2 cents in since I originally started replying without having any real meaningful interactions with RW back in January and have struggled with this even with the best apps and electronic tools available. 

I had a sustained relationship virtual/real with a young lady who proclaimed her English was poor.  I, of course, being encouraging ensured her that her English was very good, as I seemed to be able to understand everything she was saying.  She would answer me in an appropriate way for the most part and I thought that things were good.  This is both written and verbally. 

I also popped for the dreaded English lessons, and I actually went with her to school once -- the teacher highly praised the effort level of my lady friend.

I've detailed the disaster this turned out to be in other threads, but I have since begun talking to another young lady with almost exactly the same language skills. 

Boring, right.  However... I am now convinced that these women can speak English pretty well.  BUT, their understanding of English (at least American English) is at least 2-3 levels below their speaking.  Which is completely opposite of what i would expect -- for instance I can understand Spanish at least 2-3 levels above what I can speak with minimal practice.  And this has always been what I would consider normal for foreign language. And it sucks you into thinking you can do things like joke, or make innuendos...and it just fails. 

The first girl...she was basically hearing questions and reading my body language and responding how she thought appropriate.   The second lady as well, she talks wonderfully in English but cannot understand.  And it's deceiving because you think you're having a dandy conversation and later on you will mention something she emphatically agreed on only to find out that she had no understanding of what was said and now is pissed off/incredulous because she would never have agreed to whatever it was!

Further exasperating for me is that they all learn her majesty's English (which makes sense).  If you are from America and on "Vacation" they will think you have last your job or something -- you need to say you're on Holiday.  The vowels are all different, the idiomatics, etc, which we can struggle through from America/Brittan  because we know English and we can piece together context, but for these ladies it's almost another language.

I totally plan on learning as much Russian as I can, but it's very difficult for me, but if I lived with a Russian speaker I would want to learn the language so at least I know what she's telling her mom about me while i'm listening to her talk on the phone .   

So that's my 2 cents.(granted a very limited data set) 

1.  They speak better than they understand in my opinion -- so be careful how you push things.
2.  If you're American it's less likely they will understand your English.

I taught English in Moscow for about 16 months from 2000-2001. Generally speaking American English was taught at most English language schools that I met instructors from. I was told American English was preferred by many Russians because they wanted to go to the US to work or to university. I did meet a number of Russian students who were planning on going to university in the US or had been there. Of course the UK was also a desirable option.

Most of the English language teachers I met were from the US. Yes there were also many from the UK. Because after all the UK was only a short plane ride away. They were probably the second largest group. Also some from Canada and Australia. Even met a couple from NZ. The joke among the Brits was even they couldn't understand the Scottish teachers.

It's an illusion that some speak better than they understand the language. As you say some people are good at reading your body language. Another trick to learning a language is learning some useful phrases and practicing them until you can speak them without thinking. The point is the person in many cases is speaking them without thinking and sometimes using them incorrectly. They sound like they know what they're saying but have misunderstood and used the wrong phrase.

IMO as someone who has learned Spanish and Russian later in life the only solution is practice. Immerse yourself in the language if possible. IMO you should take classes to learn Russian. Even if you meet a RW who speaks fluent English she will appreciate the fact that you understand some Russian. Plus it makes life easier for yourself if you can order your own meal when in Russia.   

[msmob]

I was told American English was preferred by many Russians because they wanted to go to the US to work or to university. I did meet a number of Russian students who were planning on going to university in the US or had been there. Of course the UK was also a desirable option.

WHO told you THAT ? ... They were being 'kind' to you ....  They want to learn PROPER ENGLISH

[gaspar227]

I should say this was Ukraine. I tried to find American school for her, but they were uncommon in Odessa. Even the default siri accent for her phone was British.

In general I would have thought the same about American English, I'm just sharing my experiences.  Thanks for the info on Moscow, that's good to know.  I'll be on Kiev next week, I wonder if it's similar.

[krimster2]

globally, English usually means Standard American English, a manner of speech that communicates the content of words with clarity and consistency.
when I was attending university/going to college
we called it Broadcast English

it is a standard for clear, consistent speech recognizable to listeners across dialects. without burdening the listener with the extra cognitive load of filtering out regional differences before reaching the meaning or intent of the speaker.
Speaking Standard American dialect means speaking English that will sound American—simple, unaffected and distinct, devoid of regional influences.

this is what I speak!
ironically when I was in Texas, people asked if my accent was British
they're such a simple people


Hello Wot!
that's why they don't use Scottish English speakers except as Wind Talkers back during the war with the Fritzs and Jerrys
which utterly confused them

[krimster2]

when I lived in Sevastopol, my oldest daughter and I taught English to elementary age children
we were a good team
she did the Russian part, and I would be her English conversational partner
we started out by performing simple little "skits" in English
and get the kids to pair up and do them with us
the skits were things like going to a store, etc

when my wife first came to the US, she took an ESOL class and met many other Russians which helped her socialize in the USA
back then I worked wicked hours and she was alone a lot so this was good for her
after our kids were more grown she went to college after passing the english proficiency exam
in another year my wife will have an RN degree

[ML]

in another year my wife will have an RN degree

There is no RN degree.

There is Associate or Bachelor or Masters or Doctorate in Nursing.

RN is a license.

[Boethius]

First, it's Kyiv, not Kiev.


Second, even if a FSU individual knows English, nuances are lost, and vice versa with Anglophones learning Russian.