How bad is racism in FSU?

[FunIndieBloke]

Hi everyone, I have heard stories of skinhead gangs roaming the streets of Russian cities beating up and attacking non-whites.  In fact, I heard that the US State department has issues travel advisories against travel to Russia for Americans of non-white ancestry.  (I heard St. Petersburg is bad for this, Moscow isn't as bad)  Can anyone here comment on this?  Should I (Londoner of Japanese descent) take special precautions when traveling?  I heard that its especially bad for you if you look like you come from Chechnya area.  Any information anyone has is appreciated!   Cheers

[groovlstk]

Back in the 90s SPB was rejected as site of the 2004 Olympics because of a policing problem, as Azeris, Chechyans, Armenians, and anyone with dark skin was routinely arrested. Russia is not a pleasant place to live if you're black, also.

I wouldn't worry about being singled out for having Japanese features. When I was in SPB in February I saw LOTS of Japanese tourists and was amazed at the number of Japanese restaurants.

[FunIndieBloke]

It seems that people of East Asian appearances don't bear the worst of it.  I hate to say that some people have it worse than others when it comes to racism, but in most cases, it's true.  However, I did read of a Vietnamese student being stabbed to death by a skinhead gang in St. P, so it got me a little concened!

Thanks,

[Elen]

Wonder do you really know how chechens are supposed to look like 


My advice would be stop belive anything you read in your american mass media about Russia but I have doubts you would follow such advice 

[BC]

Asian folks at the local market in my wife's home town are quite popular and accepted in the community.  As with any country there will be 'hotspots' where if you and I were walking together we would both feeel uncomfortable.

Skinheads are a global phenomenon, but what I think you would have a worse time in the dark corners of a big German city than FSU.

Don't let the media shake you.

[andrewfi]

Wonder do you really know how chechens are supposed to look like 


My advice would be stop belive anything you read in your american mass media about Russia but I have doubts you would follow such advice 

Follow Elen's advice and you will not go far wrong.

[Turboguy]

I have never seen gangs roaming the streets hastling anyone there.  Maybe a couple of young kids in Vinitsa and maybe some Gypsy pickpockets in Moscow and a few doing the money drop thingy, but gangs beating anyone up, no.

On the last romance tour I went on there was a Japaneese guy along and he seemed to be treated well and to have good luck with the ladies.  The hotel I stay at some often has groups of asians with no problem.  I see Asians in the street with no problem.  I would say don't worry about it but don't be stupid in the things you do either.

[tbelknap]

My advice would be stop belive anything you read in your american mass media about Russia but I have doubts you would follow such advice 

I believe he said he was from London not America.   

[TheHorseman]

Wonder do you really know how chechens are supposed to look like 

I met some Chechens in Oktyabrsky, they looked pretty much like everyone esle to me.  I got along great with them and plans to stop in and say hi when I get back there.

[Son of Clyde]

There was a member of RWG who went by the name of Blackman. I met him in Kiev when he was helping Pavel meet guys at the airport.

Last I heard he left Ukraine during the political unrest after the elections. He was worried about his safety.

He was the only black person I ever saw in Ukraine and he had established a temporary residency there for at least six months and was even learning the language.

Many Russian people say negative things about blacks but few have actually met a black person. I think maybe there is a negative stereotype that Russians may have.

This is strange because my stepson listens to some rap music and his favorite television program is "Fresh Prince of BelAir."

[ConnerVT]

Yeah, but Will Smith isn't really black, is he?   

[BillyB]

When I was in Moscow for a week, I seen 9 blacks, 3 of them worked in Moscow, and countless asians. When I was in Novosibirsk, I seen an Army company of soldiers. Some looked Korean like as the far East Russia has many Asians there. I'm half Asian, I felt safe.

[LatinSwede]

This was an issue I was also very concerned about, when I went to the FSU for the first time.  As some here already know, I'm not exactly the ideal apple pie and baseball American.  I'm half hispanic and have many relatives down in Panama.  In other words, I got some color in my complexion.

Before I went over there I was told how East Europeans were vicious racists and hated any person of color they saw.  Once I had a chance to go to the Czech Republic.  I worried about being attacked by locals that might mistake me for a gypsy.  Life through another curve ball and I ended up in Odessa, Ukraine instead.  Different country same concern.  After I clicked with my now fiance, I was concerned about her family accepting me as well. Even dating American girls, there was that insecurity that the family could fnd me "too ethnic" for their daughter.  It turned out that the Hispanic culture has been my plus card over there. It's like all I have to do is say "Ya Ispanyetz", and their eyes widen in amazement.  It's seems like FSU women just love it when I say something in Spanish.  I told a couple Russian friends about this and they said I was okay there.  One girls told me "oh you're not very dark".  In Europe people usually assume I'm and Italian or a Spaniard.  My Russian friend told me I look like I could come from the Caucuses.  But I think the Russian can still tell, I'm from the west by my mannerisms and dress.

When I first met her mom, the first thing she said to me after she sat down, was "Spasiba za Kofe".  I gave my fiance packages of of Panamanian and Costa Rican coffee for her family.  To this very day, it's the only coffee her mother wants now.  I've got another bag of Central Americas finest blend ready and waiting to go to my 'mother in law'.  Yana doesn't even speak Spanish, but likes hearing Spanish music.  I gave her Ricky Martin, Enrique Iglesias, Shakira, and Selena.  After I told her the tragic story of Selena, she insisted I get her the CD.  She also likes the Hispanic oriented magazines I've given her like Latina and Revista Christina.  On their cable system is a channel called Romantica that seems to play any and evey possible Novellas (like soaps) from Latin America. I've even spotted the more Risque' programs from Brasil.  Ofcourse it's dubbed in Russian.  If you got Latin roots the cards seem to be in your favor over there.
 
The prejudice I get in the FSU so far is "Rich foreigner has everything".  The worst that happens to me, is somebody trying to ask me for money.  Once a Ukrainian soldier asked me for cigarettes, even though I don't smoke.

[PeeWee]

Seems like you just  need to be smart where you go and don't go alone. Stay near groups of people, maybe know there the nearest cop is. I did not see any skin heads in Moscow. I just did not see any so it does not mean they are not there. I felt safe walking in Red Square at 1am. Keep your eyes open and your senses keen.

Michalengo told of a robbery that he was involved in. Barcelona, I think? In my travels I have had but two minor problems. Once in Syndey that I was able to handle and once in Lahina.. That one made me mad. Three locals had spread the American flag across the sidewalk just across the street from the Blue Max. if you wanted to walk you had to either step over the flag, on the flag, or cross the street and then back. The entire idea was to provoke a fight because if you stepped on the flag well then all of a sudden your patriotizm was in question. I am a no nonsense guy and a true patriot. I made sure that they picked up the flag.  My point is that you can find trouble anywhere you go.

I would wonder about London. Your own backyard. A Brit that I know was telling me about a sport once called "Paki Bashing". Apparently there were some young Englanders who resented the fact that so many folks from India had taken residence in England. I don't know how an Indian becomes a Pakistani but maybe it is the simular appearance? Anyway the sport was to locate a Paki and then proceed to beat the crap out of him. Had you heard of this before or was he telling me stories?

Peewee

[catzenmouse]

I see more racism here in Richmond than I have ever seen in Russia. Whites hate blacks and Mexicans, blacks hate whites and Mexicans, Mexicans hate whites and blacks, throw in the East Indians, the Asians, the Europeans and it is one giant pile of crap. The only thing I saw/heard in Omsk was a few derogatory remarks about some people from the "stans" and that was related to taking away jobs from locals and not a personal shot at anyone.

 I've lived in many different states here in the US and a few places in Canada and the worst racism I've seen to date is here in the South Eastern US. Just one of the many reasons I am searching for a job away from this area right now.

Ken

[ronin308]

Elen, I believe Pravda isn't a western news source and it reported in April of this year that the number of hate crimes in Russia is on the increase.  After all a producer from NTV who was from Azerbaijan and the Minister of Culture from Kabardino-Balkaria republic were both recently attacked, not including the killing in St. Petersburg and a few other incidents.

That being said from reading a mix of russian and western news sources (the only way to balance the propaganda from both sides) I think the chances of being attacked in russia because of race are about the same in other places in europe including france, germany and england.  There aren't gangs of skinheads roaming the country like packs of wolves so I wouldn't be too concerned. 

I personally would be more concerned with an attack occuring as a part of a robbery since I look like a rich westerner than anything racially motivated.

[andrewfi]

'Hate Crimes' are on the increase in Russia and the police (and government) are concerned about the issue. This is an area of international concern and cooperation as some of the leaders and influencers are not Russian. There are rascist gangs, often skinheads and these people are the focus of attention from foreign, sometimes US influencers. (and no I will NOT be giving any further information about that - if it is in the papers or on the internet then you can see for yourselves.)

That said, it seems to me that the issue of discrimination is essentially different to that in the US because of a very different history. This is one area where there is NOT moral equivalency and one should not expect to find that people in this region to share similar public attitudes toward minorities. Private attitudes may, however, be surprisingly similar and, of course different to those that are voiced by Americans in public.

Is a black guy in danger walking the streets? Possibly to a greater degree than an otherwise similar white guy, but hardly at risk.

[PeeWee]

I see more racism here in Richmond than I have ever seen in Russia. Whites hate blacks and Mexicans, blacks hate whites and Mexicans, Mexicans hate whites and blacks, throw in the East Indians, the Asians, the Europeans and it is one giant pile of crap. The only thing I saw/heard in Omsk was a few derogatory remarks about some people from the "stans" and that was related to taking away jobs from locals and not a personal shot at anyone.

 I've lived in many different states here in the US and a few places in Canada and the worst racism I've seen to date is here in the South Eastern US. Just one of the many reasons I am searching for a job away from this area right now.

Ken

Every lived in Chicago? A northern city to be sure. I spent two weeks working in Chicago. The partner that I was as assigned to was a black man. His beat was Chicago's southside. I do recall, after my first day in the southside and after going in to grafiti painted building after building, Cabrini Green comes to mind as well, that by the end of the day I was the only white guy that I had seen. I asked about it. He explained to me that South Chicago neighborhoods are segmented into race groups. Mexicans don't live in black neighborhoods, blacks don't live in Polish...and so forth. We were at the moment in a black neighborhood when he told me this and I had spotted an hispanic fellow running along so I said, "There's a white guy (close enough) and he's here jogging in the black part of town." To which my African friend replied, "Jogging? He's running to get out of this neighborhood!" I had not seen so much racial segrigation in my travels around the US as I did in Chigago. Things may have changed as this was some fifteen years ago.

peewee

[PeeWee]

 I've lived in many different states here in the US and a few places in Canada and the worst racism I've seen to date is here in the South Eastern US. Just one of the many reasons I am searching for a job away from this area right now.

Ken

Ken, if you have computer related skills then MicroSoft is in a hiring mode now. About 4,000  new jobs I believe I read. If you have mechanical skills then Boeing is now hiring in some skills. Have you taken a look at the jobs opportunites here in the Pacific NW? If  you have and if you would like some help in some way let me know.

To add to that our ethnic communities are large. Many Asian cultures, African, of course but we have a growing Eastern European comminities as well. I am now noticing more and more Ukraine and Russian Christian churches, also business springing up. You might consider the Pacific NW as a part of your search area.

Peewee

[catzenmouse]

PeeWee,

 Thanks, I'll give it a look and see. Don't know if I could work for Microsoft though, all you guys would be blaming me for all your PC problems! And Ste would never let me live it down being the Mac enthusiast he is... 

Ken

[PeeWee]

PeeWee,

 Thanks, I'll give it a look and see. Don't know if I could work for Microsoft though, all you guys would be blaming me for all your PC problems! And Ste would never let me live it down being the Mac enthusiast he is... 

Ken

Microsoft hires private contractors as well. I believe it is because of all of the Micro-millionaires that live in and around Seattle that our cost of living has risen to what it has. You can handle a million, Ken, and let the forum lads eat cake...that was not my saying, some French woman said it first.

Peewee

[Jack]

How bad is racism in FSU?

It's there and it's very real.   

[PeeWee]

How bad is racism in FSU?

It's there and it's very real.   

I hear the racism in words but I wonder if the sentiments are truely the same. For example, my friend refers to Africans and "niggers". An Americanism I think but when she says it I do not think her understanding or meaning of the words carries the same weight as if I, an American, were to say it. Not to say that the racism is not there because I asked her what Russians refer to Africans as. She tells me that the Russian word that means eggplant is the word used. Because there is another word, other than African, to refer to an African, that word being "eggplant" then that to me indicates a form or racism.

Peewee

Peewee

[jb]

Once again it would be nice if Peewee could post on a subject he actually knew something about.

The *N* word is seldom used in Russia when referring to blacks, even then it does not carry the same negative connotation we Americans think of when we hear it.  Like the *N* word here, the origin is still "Nigerian", which is where a lot of the blacks in Russia come from.  However if you were talking to a Russian, in Russian, (which Peewee cannot do), and the subject of black people came up, the Russian would most likely refer to them, the blacks, as simply;  "za chorney", if they were Russian black people from the Caucasus, it may be the rude; "za chorney zhopias".

My transliteration may not be quite right, but anyone with a basic understanding of Russian can figure it out.

Racism does exist in Russia, it's very real, and Jack has the right of it.

[Bruno]

Once again it would be nice if Peewee could post on a subject he actually knew something about.
...
Like the *N* word here, the origin is still "Nigerian"
...

The word Negro stems from the Latin word Niger, meaning black. In English, negro or neger became negar and finally nigger, most likely under influence of French nègre. Neger (sometimes spelled "neggar") prevailed in northern New York under the Dutch and also in Philadelphia, in its Moravian and Pennsylvania Dutch communities.

And Niger have nothing to make with Nigerian from the Nigeria... but with Nigerien who are citizen from the "republic of Niger"...