Differences between Russian and Western women?

[BC]

I think it was the realization that an enemy had been defeated and that the threat of a nuclear holocaust had been eliminated that made us most happy, or releaved. No thought was given to what the internal struggles of the common Russian people might me. We may have saw them as fortunate to be released from the bonds of Socialism and government oppression.

Addressing the bold parts:

Defeated or did a system of government become unsustainable?  I wonder.. if the Soviet and American systems had not been burdened with enormous resources going towards defense where the world could be today. 

As long as each side was thinking the other would get greedy MAD (Murually Assured Destruction) was a great concept, There has only been one nation on earth that felt use of such weapons was reasonable and justified.  It is no great wonder that others were wary of those that did use them.  Quite honestly having lived most of my life during the cold war I felt safer with MAD than I do today.

There is a long history of 'releasing folks from the bonds of opression', but really, I have not seen any evidence indicating such policies really work.


When I was serving in the US military I often wondered how folks on the 'other side' really lived.  We listened to our propaganda but unfortunately could not see with our own eyes how things really were.  Unfortunately my duties did not allow travel or interaction with the folk I was trained to defend ourselves against.  Had the opportunity existed I would have been the first one on the bus. I think both sides could have profited by allowing their folks to mingle and exchange thoughts on a personal instead of political level. 

I was fortunate enough to experience the opening of the iron curtain first hand.  I was living as a civilian in Germany at the time and it was a tear-jerking, happy experience for all. Unfortunately after the first year when folks had a good chance to mingle the elation wore off the true realities of life set-in.  Even today, the German population is faced with subsidizing folks in the former East.  A temporary tax to bring the east up to par with the west has become quite permanent and is still being paid today.  Unemployment in the east is still quite a burden.  The curtain fell and new forms of racism developed and expand as we post.  Now many on either side would be happy to revert to the old status quo, and the rest are wondering how long the current situation will remain sustainable.

Probably the greatest highlight of my life was being able to stand in Red Square.  I was elated.. an era had past but leaving a bittersweet aftertaste. There were no feelings of victory involved..  It was more a deeper understanding of the perverse ways of politics and power.  As I stood there I was quite amazed at how small Red Square really is.. Even more amazing the comment from my wife as we stood in front of the White House last year- 'It's so tiny!'.  I'm quite sure her thoughts were similar to mine in Red Square.

It may seem trivial, but that's one of the reasons I continue to contribute my experiences in RW related fora.  I really believe that cross cultural marriages forming today will have very positive effects for our world in the future. May sound a bit 'odd' of me to suggest that in a way we are pioneers but the evidence and hope is here : http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1255.0

[PeeWee]

Addressing the bold parts:

Defeated or did a system of government become unsustainable?  I wonder.. if the Soviet and American systems had not been burdened with enormous resources going towards defense where the world could be today. 

As long as each side was thinking the other would get greedy MAD (Murually Assured Destruction) was a great concept, There has only been one nation on earth that felt use of such weapons was reasonable and justified.  It is no great wonder that others were wary of those that did use them.  Quite honestly having lived most of my life during the cold war I felt safer with MAD than I do today.

There is a long history of 'releasing folks from the bonds of opression', but really, I have not seen any evidence indicating such policies really work.

A good topic for dicussion and debate on another forum if I knew were it was. I refered to the collapse of the the USSR as a "defeat" because the period was known as the Cold War. Most wars have a winner and a loser. I wonder then if the US and its coalition saw the collapse of the Soviet Union as their victory?

In the book "The End of History" by Francis Fukuyama, he argued that the end of the Cold War marked the triumph of liberal democracy. (triumph-defeat). In the book "American's Secret War", by George Friedman, he states, "The United States was the victor in the Cold War and had to deal with the implications."

It's an interesting topic, BC. A pity that you and I cannot sit down in one of those stuffy old gentleman's clubs with a wine and a cigar and discuss it in more detail.

Peewee

[beattledog]

The economies are in a transitonal phase and many people have been hurt financially by this.  As the economies become more western styled, most of the people's lives will improve

beattledog

[Turboguy]

I enjoyed BC post and I enjoyed PeeWees comment on it.   I don't have the experiences BC has in the earlier days.   My first trip to Russia was in 1996.  I was also there a few years later right after the banking system collapsed.    I was in the Czech Republic in 1994.   There was a lot of unrest, worry and fear there.   The Russia I saw in 1996 was light years behind what I saw just two years later and again on my next trip. 

I do have to agree with BC that as we become more Cross Cultural it will become an even smaller world.   The other change I have seen is in the environment of the Russian and Ukrainian dating scene or marriage scene if you prefer.  I do think we are on the tail end of this phenomena.   My guess is that in two or three more years you will still be able to find a wife there buy you won't find girls 20 years+ younger and far more beautiful than you can get in America.  I think it will be more of a case of if we like the values of FSU women and if the FSU women like the values of AM.

[PeeWee]

One of the pioneers of RW/AM dating and marriage. Without benefit of Internet or RW Forum feedback and advice.

"In January, 1960, Oswald was sent to Minsk where he was given work as an assembler at a radio and television factory. While there he met Marina Prusakova, a nineteen year old pharmacy worker, and in April 1960 the couple got married. Oswald soon got disillusioned with life in the Soviet Union and in June, 1962, he was given permission to take his wife and baby daughter to the United States."

Peewee

[Wild Orchid*]

Elen, in the US major companies are known to layoff (or even fire) hundreds of employees because it is not economically feasable to keep them.

Men over 50 are practically unemployable in certain job markets because they are considered over the hill.

I am saying people in the US can seem to have everything and can also lose it in the blink of an eye.

What Elen describes comparable with your depression in 30s. When everything absolutely everything went down. I remember the time when we had to queue for hours to buy bred, sugar and all other necessities.  I remember coupon time, when we had those sheets of paper with little squares  for half a dozen of eggs, for 1 pair of socks… I remember when I was so stressed out because we didn’t eat any meat for months and I wanted it badly. I remember when I got my new job and my first salary just after 4 months after that. How would I survive if it wasn’t for my parents? Nothing like that could even crossed our minds before the collapse of the Soviet union.  My childhood and youth were quite happy. I had access to free education, I could travel if  I wanted to. It was absolutely different story for my son. I’m sooo glad we left Russia, because  I wouldn’t be able to provide him with anything - I couldn’t pay for his education, I couldn’t pay for saving him from the army. All I could do just provide his food and clothing, and it is not enough. And I agree with Elen. All this so called democratic movement was staged to let certain people gain access  to the commonwealth and make it private wealth. All those Chubaysy and Elcin and so on. 

[Durk]

     Elen,

        I first want to correct you on America. The USA was not a democratic
government. The USA was originaly a represenative republic and is still
supposed to be. What the people in our country came here for was the
opportunity to excell and develope. Our fathers were the exception of the
rule not just people. They had faith took a chance and worked their tales off
to make a place for themselves. They are from all over this earth. Your people
are no different than us. We have all struggled for the better. We need to
blame ourselves for our problems and then move forward. The problems that
were caused by Hitler are now rising again. You see Elen the world is not
imune to death, greed and evil it has always been here. I am sorry for your
friends you lost. I understand what it is like to lose a job or be down right
poor. Our family farmed for many years so I relate to hard work. I find it
very interesting that eastern woman and western men are an interesting
formula. Money in the USA continues to drive apart the family with our girls
changing their priorities. I don't think russian woman have been exposed as much as our girls have but that will change. The key here you see Elen is
history. One needs to read Roman and French history if they want to see
the future of the USA. Once you do you will understand no culture is imune
to the tests ahead. Yours and Jack's debate was really interesting I always
enjoy reading your posts. I need to learn a lot about Russian History. It will
help me to understand your future as well as the woman I will be meeting on
this journey.
 
                                                                            Durk
                                                             
                                                                         

[Elen]

Ah I do realize if I was going to move to the West I would be supposed to learn your variant of history  It's scare my in such degree that I preffer to stay in Russia 
( but I already learned names of some your presidets - with a help of banknotes )

[Jet]

( but I already learned names of some your presidents - with a help of banknotes )

Just remember Benjamin Franklin was never President 

And while on the subject, who's this guy? Vladamir something......(I'd bet few here know his last name  )

[Elen]

Never mind I'm not going to take off $100banknote from my galegy of american presidemts 
(pity you denied Salmon P. Chase to leave boders of the USA )

[Durk]

               Elen,

              We never let the big ones get away!! 

 
                                                                   D

[prince_alfie]

Indeed.

[prince_alfie]

Actually, on second thought, a lot of the differences that I see I learned from watching my mother in contrast to the typical Kentucky women when I was a child. My mother was intelligent and hardworking and taught the kids and encouraged us to be more "nerdy." In fact, even though I disagree with my parents' fundamental philosophy (not religious) I appreciate all that they have done with and for me...

A lot of people may think that Western and Russian women are the same. They are not. They come from different walks of life. In the Western world, we emphasize the individual and selfishness (think Ayn Rand) as the crux of our beliefs whereas in the Eastern world, they emphasize the society as the fundamental building block of building up a civilization. In fact, one must explicate today's conflict in Israel/Palestine or yesterday's conflict in Roman Empire/Huns and "barbarians" as being a cultural conflict between the Eastern and Western mindsets.

[Zhena]

No,they are not the same-but possible after some time they will be. A western culture penetrating in our before closed world very quickly. A new generation is far not the same that we were. They are more westernized,but still have some differences; in the future I suppose they will be very similar.

[beattledog]

I think that you are correct about the differences in the future

beattledog

[Durk]

No,they are not the same-but possible after some time they will be. A western culture penetrating in our before closed world very quickly. A new generation is far not the same that we were. They are more westernized,but still have some differences; in the future I suppose they will be very similar.

              Fiancee I really hope your are wrong. It is not the cultural differences that concern me.
  What concerns me is the importance of the family as a whole declining in the states because of
  greed and money. Your woman will not handle it any differently because they have not been
  exposed to the cash in a controlled manner. Neither have ours. Guys that are serious here want
  an older style american or russian family, at least I do. Many of my very successfull friends have
  had their life ruined by a divorce that in some cases was premeditated from the beginning. Sound
  any different than some of the scams, no! It would be great if your girls and our guys end up being
  the formula for a rich family future. Your ladies still have the family at home and our guys have the
  responsible provision portion. Sounds pretty good to me!! 

                                                                                                        D
           
 

[Zhena]

Durk ,
I wish it would be so. But unfortunately the life is difficult and often the women cant just stay home,because they need to bring more money in the family. Its not a greed,as you call , but wishing to live in more comfort. Tell me,do all men can earn enough for the family? No...Also,personally I dont like when someone limits me with the money because I am a dependent person. Not everybody count a home work to be a work at all.
And I think,I am right about the future. A family becoming to be a less value than before. Now more popular the partnership.

[Son of Clyde]

If we are looking at differences between Russian and Western women should we look at toughness?
What I have seen with every Russian woman is kindness matched with toughness. it is a survival skill Western woman may not posess.
Maybe women living in rural areas have this trait and ability to survive. I think Russian women are maybe even more devoted to their children than Western women. I see that Russian women are not afraid of hard work and sacrifice. If you look at your typical, super rich, materialistic American girl you may agree with me.

[bgreed]

Prince ALfie,
You just made it pretty obvious that you may have read Ayn Rand but totally missed the object lesson therein.  It is not about selfishness at all but more about how the unfettered creativity of human beings improves life for all.  And also that those who develop such improvements should be justifiably compensated for them.  It is those who would ride on the backs of those creative individuals trying to control them telling the world how terrible they are because they were creative, worked hard, grew and developed economic prosperity are the true bloodsuckers of a society. Better read it again.

[SANDRO43]

In the Western world, we emphasize the individual and selfishness ... as the crux of our beliefs whereas in the Eastern world, they emphasize the society as the fundamental building block of building up a civilization.

Not entirely so, fortunately (if you accept to include a substantial part of Europe in the Western world ).

Max Weber's The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism, written more than a century ago (1905 IIRC), is still an enlightening read on this subject.

[jb]

While it isn't just about differences between eastern and western women, my wife has mentioned several times how she wishes Westerns were more honest and less politically correct.  She has learned to beware of the smiling, back slapping, PC sweetness that is shown to your face because there is most likely soon gonna be a knife in your back.  Russians are more honest and direct, if they don't like you, they will tell you.  If a Russian doesn't want to do business with you, there will be no negotiation about it.  They will simply walk away without smiling at you in the process.

[beattledog]

Yes, it like  your wife.  Forget, the political correctness and do and say what it on your mind.  It is just plain stupid to search the bags of a white, 80 year old male or female going on a plain.   They are not going to blow up the plane.  We need to use some common sense in everything and if people do to like it, that is tough.  My longest post yet

Great beattledog

[jb]

And maybe your least readable.  I have no idea what you just tried to say.

[Turboguy]

Don't know beattle,   I see some people whose life after about 85 gets a little meaningless.  Maybe some of them would like to go out with a bang.   Have to keep that in mind when I reach that point in a couple more blinks.

[Son of Clyde]

Yes, it like  your wife.  Forget, the political correctness and do and say what it on your mind.  It is just plain stupid to search the bags of a white, 80 year old male or female going on a plain.   They are not going to blow up the plane.  We need to use some common sense in everything and if people do to like it, that is tough.  My longest post yet

Great beattledog

I am beginning to believe you are a foreign born person without a full grasp of the English language or maybe a fast typer who does not proofread.