In retrospect - my story with Larisa

[Photo Guy]

I followed a relatively impractical scheme. I wrote to a few women at a Big Bad Agency. After a few months I narrowed my focus down to just one fine lady. Five months later we met in Kiev for eight days. We played 'tourists'.  A few months later we decided to do a K1, as a sort of serious 'audition' for marriage. The K1 process required about 6 months. About 14 months after our first emails, she arrived here at JFK.  After two months of living here with me, she decided she would return to Ukraine at the end of her visa period. I didn't want her to go. She had very mixed emotions.

These are the problems we faced, and a few of the things I have learned:

1- You should travel to her home town and meet her friends and family, BEFORE
making a serious commitment or applying for a K1.

Had I done this, I would've seen and dealt with her strong bond with her parents.
That family tie, eventually ended our relationship. I did not foresee that effect.
I come from a family of independent individualists.

2- There were many things about American culture that she did not like, and your
future bride may not like.

I did not foresee that problem and I am just making you aware of that possible situation.

3- She may not be willing to leave her world behind.

She became homesick, especially after learning about her father's bad health.
One more thing that I had not foreseen.

4- Her lack of good English skills made it tougher to deal with these problems.

If she had spoken English well, she may have been a completely different person.
She is who she is. I love her for it. Each individual has to decide which challenges
and which problems are acceptable.

Presently, Larisa is undergoing diagnostic medical testing in her home city, a place of severe pollution.
Her health and her father's health has led the three of them to the decision to sell their
modest Soviet flat, to help pay for medical costs and the cost of relocating to a city with better
medical facilities. Forget about romance, her life is all about surviving and improving her
health now. We are fizzling out. I feel more a victim of unforeseen circumstances, than of
selecting the 'wrong' woman. I certainly value our limited time together. She's a fine woman.
I'll miss her, but hey, time to move on.

[Turboguy]

Good luck Photo Guy.  You gave it your best shot and you have learned a lot from the experience.   You have some good memories, a lot better idea of what you are going to have to do to succeed and it may have been hard but I am sure good things lie ahead for you.

[corp]

Photo Guy, I think your story here is of great value to many guys just starting out.
So what are your plans now, will you hang up your aspirations of finding a foreign bride or get back in the saddle with your new-learned lessons?

[BC]

Good advice PG.

Nr. 2 struck me as an adjustment issue.. It's simply not 'home' until it is 'home'.

Welcome back.

[PeeWee]

Life is all about trials and errors and we learn to crawl before we learn to walk. Sounds like  you got a great education, learned somethings, readjusted your track, and now on you way to a success. I will echo, Turbo, Corp, and BC. Game is on, lad.

Peewee

[Nando]

IHad I done this, I would've seen and dealt with her strong bond with her parents.
That family tie, eventually ended our relationship. I did not foresee that effect.
I come from a family of independent individualists.

2- There were many things about American culture that she did not like, and your
future bride may not like.

I did not foresee that problem and I am just making you aware of that possible situation.

3- She may not be willing to leave her world behind.

Can you be more specific about this question, because I think that western countries are now very similar.
What were the points she didn't like?

Great information by the way

[catzenmouse]

PG,

 Glad to see you back again! In all of our lives we gain or lose by the paths we take and the decisions we make (or don't make as the case my be).

 In retrospect, if you had done all the things according to the rules and followed all the advice of the OMB's do you think Larisa would have been better prepared to live here? Do you think that you would have not gone the K1 and continued your search? Or do you feel that it would not have made any difference in the outcome?

 Sorry for the hard questions but you have gone the road less traveled and with that have a lot of information for others.

Ken

[Phil dAmore]

PG, just curious...

Since you didn't plan for or anticipate the problems you listed, what exactly DID you plan on? 

Isn't every issue you listed written down in the Basic Laws of Wife Seeking?  If not, they should be.

This isn't a jab at ya, I'm truly sorry it didn't work out with you and Larisa, but it seems to me you should have done a lot more in the way of preparation before bringing her over.

Few people appreciate impractical and unusual methods of doing things more than I, but this is one arena where it is absolutely necessary to follow established procedures.

In retrospect, you were very lucky.

[PeeWee]

PG,

 Glad to see you back again! In all of our lives we gain or lose by the paths we take and the decisions we make (or don't make as the case my be).

 In retrospect, if you had done all the things according to the rules and followed all the advice of the OMB's do you think Larisa would have been better prepared to live here? Do you think that you would have not gone the K1 and continued your search? Or do you feel that it would not have made any difference in the outcome?

 Sorry for the hard questions but you have gone the road less traveled and with that have a lot of information for others.

Ken

Something that I see in this and even had his approach been different and had the outcome been at least successful enough for the two of them to marry and then begin the stuggle to maintain it is the health issues.

"Presently, Larisa is undergoing diagnostic medical testing in her home city, a place of severe pollution.
Her health and her father's health has led the three of them to the decision to sell their
modest Soviet flat, to help pay for medical costs and the cost of relocating to a city with better
medical facilities. Forget about romance, her life is all about surviving and improving her
health now."

The medical troubles were predestined. She would have still fallen to illness as would here father. She would have felt compelled to return home to him to provide care to him and to seek treatment for herself. Photoguy would now be providing money to not only save the family home but for on going medical treatment as well not to mention having to deal with the day to day mental stress related to the illness.

I think had all gone well for him that he would still have seperated from his wife for the health issues alone. And you are right he is probably lucky that it did turn out as it did. I am not suggesting that his overall plan was correct but I am suggesting that he might have had a chance for success, as remote as it might have been, had the health issues not been factored into this.

peewee

[KenC]

PG,
Better luck next time.  Or even better, make your luck better next time by taking your time.  The "shortcuts" guys take in this process usually makes it a much longer road in the end.  Be thankful that no one made perminant decisions that then would have to be undone.

Nando,
you wrote:
"Can you be more specific about this question, because I think that western countries are now very similar.
What were the points she didn't like"?

Those of us that have gone through this process can tell you that once your RW arrives, she usually has a negative attitude toward her new environment.  Everything different becomes something negative and there is a whole lot that is different.  In the two months that PG spent with his girl, he was never able to reach the point in time where the RW begins to see the light of all the positive things in her new environment.  This change takes time. 

IMO, there was nothing wrong with PG's choice of women, just that he didn't do his homework well enough and he left too much to do in his short 90 day window.  PG was happy with his choice and that is really all that matters but he may have had a different outcome if he had met her parents, got to know her & them better and given her more time to learn English.  This is not to say that his final outcome would be much different though.  They still may not have married.  But PG's hastiness may have caused him a lost opportunity with this particular woman.
KenC

[corp]

I wonder what Larisa might write in her list of "Lessons learned"?

It would be interesting to see the female side of these things once in a while.
 I would bet her take on things would be a little (or maybe a lot) different than PG as it would in any relationship.

[catzenmouse]

No doubt, the medical issues could easily be a deal breaker and with PG/Larisa it could have been the last straw (so to speak) for her. Another thing to file under the long list of difficulties that can arise. Though this one is not specific to the FSUW/WM relationship as in every relationship there is the possibility of something like this happening.

The medical troubles were predestined. She would have still fallen to illness as would here father. She would have felt compelled to return home to him to provide care to him and to seek treatment for herself. Photoguy would now be providing money to not only save the family home but for on going medical treatment as well not to mention having to deal with the day to day mental stress related to the illness.

I think had all gone well for him that he would still have seperated from his wife for the health issues alone. And you are right he is probably lucky that it did turn out as it did. I am not suggesting that his overall plan was correct but I am suggesting that he might have had a chance for success, as remote as it might have been, had the health issues not been factored into this.

[Jet]

But PG's hastiness may have caused him a lost opportunity with this particular woman.

The other difficult thing which seems to have been tip-toed around up til now (and I only mention it becuase of the "game on" comment up-thread), is that now that IMBRA has kicked in he has used up exactly 50% of his opportunities with this woman or any other. The 2 year ban on re-filing is not such a big issue as I think Photo has the sense to use what he's learned and take it on a slower, more deliberate path next time, but the pressure of being limited to only one more application (2-lifetime) is bound to push the anxiety level into the extreme when trying to make a determination if 'this is the woman' and 'this is the time' to file again.

I wish him luck

[BC]

PeeWee,

Re: health troubles

When any complex system destroys itself it's almost always a chain of events, each event associated with one or more causes and factors that leads to it's demise. 

Any marriage is a complex system. Foreign marriages are complex².

I am quite sure you are familiar with this concept -and the true value of a good walkaround and following checklists..

After his 'flying by the seat of his pants' experience I believe PG now also does.

[BillyB]

PG,

I hope you could hang around and tell newbies what not to do. With your first hand, hard earned experience, you need to hammer in their heads they could lose months/years of their life besides straining themselves emotionally and financially if they rush into a relationship.

[KenC]

WOW,
Some great info on this thread!

BC,
Any marriage is a complex system. Foreign marriages are complex(to the second power).
That has to be a classic!

Jet,
Very good point many do not consider.  A guy doesn't have unlimited chances to get this right any more.
KenC

[catzenmouse]

BillyB,

 Are you advocating the use of the "Clue Bat"?  :hairraising:

 One of the things I really like about this place is that no matter how much we sometimes fight with each other in the end we always seem to come together quite well to help out when it is needed.

Ken

PG,

I hope you could hang around and tell newbies what not to do. With your first hand, hard earned experience, you need to hammer in their heads they could lose months/years of their life besides straining themselves emotionally and financially if they rush into a relationship.

[BC]

Nando,

Nando,
you wrote:
"Can you be more specific about this question, because I think that western countries are now very similar.
What were the points she didn't like"?

Those of us that have gone through this process can tell you that once your RW arrives, she usually has a negative attitude toward her new environment.  Everything different becomes something negative and there is a whole lot that is different.  In the two months that PG spent with his girl, he was never able to reach the point in time where the RW begins to see the light of all the positive things in her new environment.  This change takes time. 

Certainly mirrors our experience.. Your next question might be 'How long?'

I don't know about the other guys but in my experience this process is gradual but steady, has taken several years and a few trips back home that serve well as 'reality checks'. 

When your wife swears up and down that she will 'never stay so long again' when visiting her old home the adjustment process is probably complete.

[Bruce]

PG - Good to see you posting.  Good to see you come clean.  You now have the next two years or more to take it slow and most importantly get it right next time.  How do you plan on contacting / meeting FSU women next time, or do you solely intend to remain local  ?

[PeeWee]

PeeWee,

Re: health troubles

When any complex system destroys itself it's almost always a chain of events, each event associated with one or more causes and factors that leads to it's demise. 

Any marriage is a complex system. Foreign marriages are complex².

I am quite sure you are familiar with this concept -and the true value of a good walkaround and following checklists..

After his 'flying by the seat of his pants' experience I believe PG now also does.

True, and I always think of the analogy of why airliners crash. The domino effect. In the case of the TranSat Airbus that ran out of fuel somewhere over the Atlantic a few years ago. Engine not installed properly let to a chaffing of a fuel line. A leak developed in flight. Pilot thought high engine fuel consuption and so transfered fuel to the leak instead of shutting the engine down. Then when the fuel gauges began to indicate empty he thought computer malfunction...and Wahlaaa!!  Both engines starve and the plane, fortunately, lands on a tiny island in off the coast of nowhere and everyone lives. Trickle down to disaster. It happens in both relationships and in other disasters as well.

Analogy.  Photoguy's run and gun relationship building plan=quick change engine and lack of proceeduers thereof.

Peewee

[andrewfi]

Perhaps now is the time to consider going through your posts, if possible, and editing them with footnotes!

There are hundreds of posts from you all extolling a programme that you now know to be fatally flawed. A user of this boards search engine would get a fully misleading picture based upon the volume of your posts and could well end up making bad choices without ever knowing that your outcome was so bitter.

I would not delete them, just footnote them. In that manner your case becomes, rather than a flawed advocacy, as it is now, an opportunity for others to learn from your sad example.

[Son of Clyde]

Welcome back Photo Guy.

It ain't over until it's over. Life, I mean, is full of experiences to learn from.
This is one giant lesson in life and it does not matter if someone is naive or the most experienced guy on earth, it still comes down to two very different personalities and expectations.

You will get back on the bicycle to ride again.

[Leslie]

Doug,

No one could ever tell you ANYTHING.  You had to find out for yourself. 

Go back through the threads you initiated here.  You were ADVISED on all the 4 points you state above.  (All of which are common knowledge to the OMB's)  You refused to listen.  Your case was SPECIAL.  You regarded all the excellent advice you got as  "demeaning put-downs from puffed-up authoritarians."   

My final point to you was -

"Personally I do not think you have what it takes to succeed in this quest,  but if you persist, you need to learn and that means listening. Something that in the past you have refused to do...."

I will change that opinion now.  You are learning but are you prepared to listen?

[jb]

Personally I agree, I think the last thing Photoguy needs is a Russian wife.  I will not become involved in his new RW search to the extent I did in the last go-'round.   Frankly I think I've already said everything to P/G that needed to be said, he didn't listen then, I have no expectations that he'll listen now.

[Turboguy]

Doug,

No one could ever tell you ANYTHING.  You had to find out for yourself. 

Go back through the threads you initiated here.  You were ADVISED on all the 4 points you state above.  (All of which are common knowledge to the OMB's)  You refused to listen.  Your case was SPECIAL.  You regarded all the excellent advice you got as  "demeaning put-downs from puffed-up authoritarians."   

My final point to you was -

"Personally I do not think you have what it takes to succeed in this quest,  but if you persist, you need to learn and that means listening. Something that in the past you have refused to do...."

I will change that opinion now.  You are learning but are you prepared to listen?

Frankly I think PhotoGuy will resume his quest a little wiser and a lot more experienced.  Frankly, perhaps PG was a failure in his quest, but you guys were the bigger failure.   You had someone come here looking for advice and help and all he got was  " demeaning put-downs from puffed-up authoritarians".   Instead of discussing his doubts and concerns you tried to clue bat him into obedience.   I have even seen posts where it seemed to me that you guys realized you drove him in the wrong direction.  I think this has been hashed around enough that there is not too much more to say but Leslies post struck me as gloating over Doug's misfortune. 

jb, I am sure PG would appreciate that very much.  I compliment you on your decision.