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Author Topic: EU Issues  (Read 17562 times)

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Online msmob

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Re: EU Issues
« Reply #125 on: June 26, 2018, 02:39:17 PM »
 :cluebat:
You can Google the chain volume method for info to get a good understanding. You should've used those GDP charts with the chain volume method to show your fellow citizens how well the UK was doing being in the EU. The problem with your choice in methods for GDP is that it also shows a continued increase of GDP after the vote for Brexit which means it contradicts your belief the sky is falling in the UK. [/quote]

Silly BillyB

Do you not remember me telling you that I prefer using GDP per capita - as a more accurate indicator ? In THAT case one can CLEARLY see that the UK PLC WAS affected by the vote and subsequent uncertainty ...You DO know that even our own - largely pro Brexit govt - can admit what you won't ?

Thanks, I can use Google and you are deflecting as you know the US showed a dip - it was on the up before Trampu could claim it was his policies  :D

You have lots of faith in the EU. Do you think the British Empire could've accomplished much more if the EU were available to join back then?

I have more faith in UK PLC's future within the EU than without

Your second question is just daft ...The Empire was long gone before ... It's like me asking you if you weren't born would the world be a better place ?


Offline Boethius

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Re: EU Issues
« Reply #126 on: June 26, 2018, 02:54:34 PM »
#Swexit? All is not well in one of the most liberal countries in Europe.

From the article:

In 2015 after the Swedish government encouraged mass immigration Sweden saw more than 160,000 mostly male African and Middle Eastern immigrants arrive to claim asylum. Sweden is a country of about 10,000,000. IOW if all 160,000+ asylum seekers were granted asylum Sweden would have increased its population by 1.6% in one year with the admission of the asylum seekers.


Sweden didn't encourage mass migration.  They received asylum seekers after Merkel encouraged refugees.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Online DaveNY

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Re: EU Issues
« Reply #127 on: June 26, 2018, 03:10:29 PM »

Sweden didn't encourage mass migration.  They received asylum seekers after Merkel encouraged refugees.

From your own CBC.

Quote
In Skaik's case, he has been living just outside the Swedish city of Norrkoping for 16 months now, having chosen to make his way to Sweden before the government announced its decision in September to offer blanket asylum and permanent residency.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/bastion-of-tolerance-sweden-opens-wide-for-syria-s-refugees-1.2508166

Merkel vigorously encouraging migration to Germany certainly didn't help however Sweden went too far with their blanket asylum and permanent residency. With the large numbers of migrants arriving in Sweden, Sweden was forced to limit the numbers or Sweden wouldn't be Sweden in 20-30 years.

Offline Boethius

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Re: EU Issues
« Reply #128 on: June 26, 2018, 03:14:27 PM »
Sweden’s policy remained in place, unamended.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Online DaveNY

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Re: EU Issues
« Reply #129 on: June 26, 2018, 03:44:35 PM »
Sweden’s policy remained in place, unamended.

Sweden's immigration policy changed dramatically. From the video:

Quote
The Greens’ deputy prime minister, Åsa Romson, breaks into tears as she announces measures to deter asylum seekers in a reversal of Sweden’s open-door policy towards people fleeing war and persecution. ‘This is a terrible decision,’ she said later, admitting that the proposals would make life even more precarious for refugees.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2015/nov/24/asa-romson-sweden-deputy-prime-minister-cries-announcing-refugee-u-turn-video

Offline Boethius

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Re: EU Issues
« Reply #130 on: June 26, 2018, 03:48:11 PM »
But that was after they’d let in 160,000 migrants. It changed because they can’t even house them all, let alone integrate them. Sweden didn’t encourage the migrants to arrive.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Online DaveNY

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Re: EU Issues
« Reply #131 on: June 26, 2018, 04:03:01 PM »
But that was after they’d let in 160,000 migrants. It changed because they can’t even house them all, let alone integrate them. Sweden didn’t encourage the migrants to arrive.

Correct. Sweden couldn't house, educate, employ, teach them Swedish, etc  those who arrived. Sweden then realized many, many more would arrive if allowed to settle in Sweden. The 160,000 would be just a trickle compared to the flood that would arrive.

After all the Middle East and Africa was and still is home to many hundreds of millions of people living in deplorable conditions. If given the chance how many do you think would move to Sweden? Obviously Sweden did the calculations and decided they simply couldn't accommodate the millions that would likely arrive.

Germany is a lot bigger than Sweden in numbers and many Germans think the same, that's why Merkel is having the problems she's currently facing.

Online msmob

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Re: EU Issues
« Reply #132 on: June 27, 2018, 01:09:39 AM »
So,

What should the EU do - sink the boats trying to cross the Med ? ... 


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Re: EU Issues
« Reply #133 on: June 27, 2018, 01:45:14 AM »
So,

What should the EU do - sink the boats trying to cross the Med ? ...

Absolutely :D Those people have no respect for a country's border & immigration system.

All European nations should do as Trump is suggesting with illegal immigrants and dump them straight back in their own country. No court cases or expensive asylum stays with which to punish the taxpayers. We know that they have broken said country's immigration law so we should dump them immediately back where they came from. It's what we used to do and what always worked in the past before we went soft and let ourselves be told that we should let illegal immigrants walk all over us.

Online msmob

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Re: EU Issues
« Reply #134 on: June 27, 2018, 01:49:03 AM »
Absolutely :D Those people have no respect for a country's border & immigration system.

These people are usually the toughest and smartest .. risking their lives ... 


All European nations should do as Trump is suggesting with illegal immigrants and dump them straight back in their own country. No court cases or expensive asylum stays with which to punish the taxpayers. We know that they have broken said country's immigration law so we should dump them immediately back where they came from. It's what we used to do and what always worked in the past before we went soft and let ourselves be told that we should let illegal immigrants walk all over us.

But they HAVEN'T broken a law by being rescued at sea / pitching up at the border and claiming asylum - HAVE they ?

More clueless Trench


Online Trenchcoat

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Re: EU Issues
« Reply #135 on: June 27, 2018, 07:00:23 AM »
These people are usually the toughest and smartest .. risking their lives ... 


But they HAVEN'T broken a law by being rescued at sea / pitching up at the border and claiming asylum - HAVE they ?

More clueless Trench

We should simply ban anyone from claiming Asylum, it's clear that it is being abused as a method of immigration into a country. At least in its present form Asylum does not work. For some peculiar reason once here we have to feed them,  house them and give them education - the cost to the taxpayer of all that is ridiculous. Then after all of that we find they have used another work around to stay permentaly in the country, Asylum my arse!

Online DaveNY

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Re: EU Issues
« Reply #136 on: June 27, 2018, 12:33:24 PM »
So,

What should the EU do - sink the boats trying to cross the Med ? ...

The population of Africa is somewhere close to 1.5 billion. Add in the Middle East and some of the worst places in parts of Asia and that's well over 2 billion people who would love to live in Europe. The population of Europe is only about 750 million. That means the UK wouldn't be the UK anymore. Same with most countries in Europe. The demographics would be forever changed.

Future generations in the UK might be speaking Swahili or Amharic, two of the more common African languages. Or perhaps Arabic. Maybe a couple of the Asian languages such as Hindi/Urdu or Bengali would be official languages in the UK.

Americans and Europeans, such as yourself, seem to have white guilt over being successful. This isn't the case in most other parts of the world. The Gulf States will not admit the asylum seekers from Africa and their neighboring states in the Arab world, even those who are Muslim. Yes, many of the Gulf States are filled with foreigners such as Filipinos however those people are there on work permits that have strict conditions. They will never be able to get citizenship in any of Gulf States except maybe through marriage. Note too that while international organizations are pressing European nations to admit more refugees they are not asking the same of the Gulf States. These organizations know that would be a lost cause. The organizations get some money out of the Gulf States however pledges to admit tens of thousands of refugees are not going to happen. BTW even the financial assistance from these states is not equal to what the west provides so the Gulf States are not exactly generous with their aid. Look at Saudi Arabia on the list below, only $18,065,880, less than Finland.

China, Japan, Korea and other Asian nations allow very few asylum seekers in and are not at all generous with financial aid. Take a look at where China is on the list below. One of the largest economies in the world and they contribute less than Ireland. Again they are not being pressed by international organizations to admit more refugees because these organizations know that would be a lost cause. That leaves the west, Europe, Canada, the US, Australia, NZ and a few other countries.

How to solve the problem? I don't know. What I do know is that not only are criminal organizations actively involved in sending refugees to Europe because it is profitable so are aid groups such as Mission Lifeline. Over the next few decades this could easily lead to Europe having a few hundred million refugees arriving from some of the worst places on Earth. Of course I could be overly optimistic and the totals could be 2 or 3 times higher, or more.  :o 

http://www.unhcr.org/5954c4257.html
« Last Edit: June 27, 2018, 12:36:39 PM by DaveNY »

Offline ML

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Re: EU Issues
« Reply #137 on: June 27, 2018, 12:50:21 PM »
I took an International Economics course several decades ago.

The Professor turned out to be correct when he told us:  "In future, the biggest problem will not be East vs West; it will be North vs South."

At that time, I didn't really think much about what this problem would be and I don't think he explained it either.  Don't know if he was referring to migration, or something else.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Online BillyB

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Re: EU Issues
« Reply #138 on: June 27, 2018, 09:20:59 PM »
either.  Don't know if he was referring to migration, or something else.


He was talking about migration AND something else. You see, when the next Ice Age rolls around and it gets cold, President Donald Trump XCVIII will build a wall to keep the illegal immigrants out that are pouring down from Canada. Due to the cold, America's farms will not grow crops well. Hundreds of millions will go hungry and die without a solution. Mexico's policy towards illegal immigration isn't very friendly because it separates American parents from their kids. This violates all values we hold dear since Americans are civilized and don't play that game anymore since 2018. President Donald Trump XCVIII has no choice and orders the US Army to scale that damn historical wall built by President Donald Trump to invade Mexico where the land is better suited for farming. That's exactly what your professor was talking about.

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: EU Issues
« Reply #139 on: July 06, 2018, 07:20:45 PM »
Mobe, you mean this ;D

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44747444?intlink_from_url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cwlw3xz0lvvt/brexit&link_location=live-reporting-story

Well essentiallying the majority of the cabinet are behind this 'facilitated customs arrangement'. It mirrors what I said would probably happen regarding people movement, that for visiting/tourism we will be able to come & go freely and vice versa but for work or study EU citizens would have to apply and similarly vice versa.

Essentially the UK would be able to strike it's own trade deals.

I think if the points outlined are stuck to and we don't end up with it creeping towards a customs union then it could well work.

It also depends on the EU accepting it, some of it they will but some of it they may take issue with, the EU being the EU. It would be a shame for them to get all awkward over it though and of course I could see them doing that as I don't think they really know what negotiation is but rather we dictate you follow end off. Which of course is the attitude that has landed them in the sorry messes they are now in.

Online msmob

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Re: EU Issues
« Reply #140 on: July 09, 2018, 02:00:38 AM »
Poor Trench

Now you can see that another of my prophesies has become reality

Mrs May told her boys to toe the line in her very soft Brexit stance and they are resigning.


Online BillyB

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Re: EU Issues
« Reply #141 on: July 09, 2018, 09:56:32 AM »
Mrs May told her boys to toe the line in her very soft Brexit stance and they are resigning.


May refuses to Brexit accordingly to the will of the people. She want's to do a soft Brexit. Boris Johnson and David Davis are the latest ministers to resign in protest. Soon she may have to resign or get booted out if she can't get the job done right.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/no-reluctant-conscript-brexit-minister-quits-blow-britains-031654739.html?.tsrc=bell-brknews

Online msmob

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Re: EU Issues
« Reply #142 on: July 09, 2018, 10:26:09 AM »
May refuses to Brexit accordingly to the will of the people.

There's our BillyB - on his once daily mission to prove his hasn't a scooble do about what goes on outside his boundary fence

As the referendum was VERY imprecise - your version of 'reality' as to what any one voting brexit actually wanted is pure fiction

Example: My Aunt, Uncle and at least one 'coz voted to leave

BUT... They did not want a hard brexit - one that meant a customs / immigration control on the Northern Ireland border  ...
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 01:51:08 PM by msmob »

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: EU Issues
« Reply #143 on: July 09, 2018, 12:50:30 PM »
Poor Trench

Now you can see that another of my prophesies has become reality

Mrs May told her boys to toe the line in her very soft Brexit stance and they are resigning.

It's not at all a very soft Brexit stance because it:

- Abolishes Freedom of Movement.
- Allows us to make our own Trade Deals.
- Means we would be an Independent Nation again.

There is a clear gap between this and what Remainers in the Labour Party want, a customs union that abandons these three main points and many others - that is very soft Brexit or more to the point not Brexit at all.

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Re: EU Issues
« Reply #144 on: July 10, 2018, 01:20:16 AM »
Notice Mobes has not replied on this, no doubt has realised that Brexit is now deliverable :)

Online msmob

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Re: EU Issues
« Reply #145 on: July 11, 2018, 05:32:19 PM »
Trench, you ARE a soft lad

'Mobes' is on hols with S and has FAR better things to do that mock your inability to read the news and realise the game is up ..

The UK govt has to make a deal with the EU and the DUP - as I KEEP telling you - will not allow a hard brexit

ALL the Tories are doing are ensuring they will not govern with a majority  - if at all


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Re: EU Issues
« Reply #146 on: July 12, 2018, 09:49:05 AM »
Trench, you ARE a soft lad

'Mobes' is on hols with S and has FAR better things to do that mock your inability to read the news and realise the game is up ..

The UK govt has to make a deal with the EU and the DUP - as I KEEP telling you - will not allow a hard brexit

ALL the Tories are doing are ensuring they will not govern with a majority  - if at all

Really, I'm sure I spotted you on the news the other day outside the Houses of Parliment all dressed up in EU colours and face paint shouting out 'Stop Brex.i..t' behind the reporter, Lol. One of those Nutters ;D

Well the white paper is out today it says:

'Businesses should be able to move “their talented people” from the UK to the European Union – and vice versa – after Brexit, according to the government’s strategy white paper which was published amid chaotic scenes in the Commons.

The document also says the government is prepared to allow EU citizens to travel freely without a visa in the UK for tourism and temporary work and allow EU students to study in the UK.'

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/brexit-white-paper-seeks-free-114813874.html


So like I said before removing free movement in its entirety and scaling it back to something more reasonable and responsible. It should also stop the default access for EU citizens to settle here as a matter of course so that if someone really wants to be here they will have to put in a bit of effort rather than just turn up. Should help slow down the over population problem we are experiencing in the UK at present.

Online msmob

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Re: EU Issues
« Reply #147 on: July 13, 2018, 03:48:57 AM »
Trench

You are a guy the recives a salary...not one that pays them...

You keep on proving that your brain hurts when economics are involved

The ehite paper sucks as it fails to adequately reassure those biz that require frictionless trade and movement of employees..think service industries

I know the penny takes longer to drop for you.

Now we may leave the EU with NO say in the rules ...

'GREAT PLAN'....

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Re: EU Issues
« Reply #148 on: July 14, 2018, 01:22:37 AM »
Trench

You are a guy the recives a salary...not one that pays them...

You keep on proving that your brain hurts when economics are involved

The ehite paper sucks as it fails to adequately reassure those biz that require frictionless trade and movement of employees..think service industries

I know the penny takes longer to drop for you.

Now we may leave the EU with NO say in the rules ...

'GREAT PLAN'....

Mobe, I'm the one that does the work that ensures the Employer gets the money to pay me my salary. End of the day I am going to look at it from my perspective an Employer from theirs.

If a load of East Europeans turn up as they have done and take up a lot of the housing and jobs I am not going to care one iota if leaving the EU impacts my Employer in some way, if their is some negative economic impact on them. My concern is in protecting my interests not looking out for my Employers interests which go against my interests if they are pro Remain.

My concern is that immigration is slowed, even partially reversed, that I keep hold off my job and at a decent wage and it not come under threat by a horde of Immigrants. If I have children it is to look out for their interests in not losing out in the jobs market to a horde of Immigrants or getting low pay despite working hard and being highly educated/skilled. Also that adequate housing is available for them. This concern would extend to my siblings, nephew & nieces and fellow British workers who are essentially in a similar boat to me.

In any case it has been made clear that any impediment to the service industry in the EU will be far offset by the UK being able to strike trade deals with other countries do keep up Mobers ;)

The US in Trump's visit to the UK yesterday stated they want to do a trade deal with the UK - this could be huge for the UK and you would pass over on that for some impediment on services with the EU, it's nothing in comparison.

I do of course wish to extract myself from income dependant on working for an Employer to securing my own independent income as soon as I can in the future. Working for an Employer offers no financial security, even a gut in a good income can find himself out of a job and suddenly heading to poverty tomorrow which of course is not good on this search.

Online msmob

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Re: EU Issues
« Reply #149 on: July 14, 2018, 07:10:34 AM »
Mobe, I'm the one that does the work that ensures the Employer gets the money to pay me my salary. End of the day I am going to look at it from my perspective an Employer from theirs.

YOU are replaceable- be it by a EU citizen or a machine - installed by the employer ;)   


If a load of East Europeans turn up as they have done and take up a lot of the housing and jobs I am not going to care one iota if leaving the EU impacts my Employer in some way, if their is some negative economic impact on them.

Oh, you WILL if the employer goes somewhere else ... Which they WILL


My concern is that immigration is slowed, even partially reversed, that I keep hold off my job and at a decent wage and it not come under threat by a horde of Immigrants. If I have children it is to look out for their interests in not losing out in the jobs market to a horde of Immigrants or getting low pay despite working hard and being highly educated/skilled. Also that adequate housing is available for them. This concern would extend to my siblings, nephew & nieces and fellow British workers who are essentially in a similar boat to me.

In any case it has been made clear that any impediment to the service industry in the EU will be far offset by the UK being able to strike trade deals with other countries do keep up Mobers ;)

Deals with WHO ?... This is the sort of bollox you leavers lap up and demonstrate cluelessness


The US in Trump's visit to the UK yesterday stated they want to do a trade deal with the UK - this could be huge for the UK and you would pass over on that for some impediment on services with the EU, it's nothing in comparison.

'Of course' - they do and they want a private piece of the action re healthcare, etc.  Jeez you just don't get it ...

You want to leave a club  - THE biggest trading group - with whom we have seamless trade - to 'do a deal' with the US ? ...  And how many times less is that trade ?   

ALL because you are a lazy RACIST - doing enough to get by and being a tight wad with a lass on a date ;)


 

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