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Author Topic: Prenuptial Agreements  (Read 4882 times)

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Offline WifeSeeker

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2018, 03:26:31 PM »
I think you are missing the point - by even asking an intended to sign one, you are saying I do not trust you how you will be in the future - SIMPLES

Well, going by that logic, then you could argue that just by asking to sign a marriage contract, you are saying "I do not trust you", after all the biggest impact of a marriage contract is its effects for a divorce.

Isn't this about sharing  in good times and bad - for richer and poorer, etc.,

Yes, you are completely right. In good and bad, for richer and poorer. Within marriage, within the relationship, as soon as the relationship ends, that ends.

Online krimster2

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2018, 03:29:32 PM »
"As someone who has won the t-shirt I will repeat .. Pre-nups are for those who shouldn't become Husbands / Wives and esp parents .. in the first place"

true words!!! good "onya mate"


if you can't put preservation of your family ahead of self-preservation
then stay true to yourself and stay single
as a husband/father the amount of personal sacrifices you make for your family
is dwarfed only by the rewards that they give you in return

i've had MANY close friends go through divorce
seen it up close in all it's terrifying detail
like all tragedies in life,
a gentleman should respond by maintaining a stiff upper lip and carry on
and continue supporting those around him who will be equally suffering
but thinking of yourself instead is not what a real man would do

 

« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 03:31:38 PM by krimster2 »
вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

Offline Donna_Pedro

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2018, 03:42:00 PM »
Thats how mom mom "accidently" ended up with two-3 credit cards here. She didnt didnt remember how she applied for them. I didnt know untill I caught her in action in TJ MAx or some such.. She checks out.. THe cashier gives the usual "Do you want to apply for a CC with us" Mom (smiling) - uhu,,, Please sign here.. Me - Mom, what are you signing? I dunno....she said "sign here".  Thats about how foreign women sign prenups..
Kaplah!

Offline GenMish

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2018, 12:26:42 PM »
Question
Are Prenups legally acceptable with K 1 Visas? If so, it would be hypocritical to stand up for a K1, and also ask for a Prenup. Dont cha think? But I do understand a suitor with many assets contacting a lawyer before marriage whether K1 or getting married abroad.
 

I recently ended a 23 year marriage with a FSU lady, and I thought the division was fair. (what I despise are the enormous legal fees because lawyers try to dupe their clients to contest every little thing at a tune of $800/hr) While I did comingle previously held assets, I thought we both contributed after 23 yrs to the ending asset base enough to where I don't regret the initial comingling

If I marry again an FSU lady, I might consider putting money in  trust for my children first...but I would not ask for a pre nup. That would be like asking the marriage not to work
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 12:32:31 PM by GenMish »

Online krimster2

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2018, 12:36:46 PM »
the trust for your children is a great idea
my cousin did my will and set up a trust for my kids
my wife and I went over everything together
I wanted to protect our children from the possibility that if one of us died
and the other remarried, their new spouse would not be able to grab everything for themselves
the terms apply to us both, and we both are in agreement 100%

sorry for your divorce
that must have hurt plenty and I'm not even considering money at all
вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

Offline ML

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2018, 06:47:05 PM »
There have been long threads about pre-nups here before.

Some are very much for pre-nups and some talk quite negatively about them.

Then there was a survey of the net worth and yearly income of the guys here.

Turns out that those who were quite negative about pre-nups had virtually no net worth and low yearly earnings.

So those trying for sainthood then, and those trying now, are merely using that as a stand in for their 'have not much to lose anyway.'
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Online krimster2

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2018, 07:08:56 PM »
YOU don't care MORE about your FAMILY than yourself or money?
that's ok, your choice

as far as I am concerned it has nothing to do with how much money is in your wallet
but instead how much love is in your heart for your family
I am lucky, I have an abundance of both

going over estate planning made me realize
one day, every single thing I own will belong to someone else
all wealth is transitory
but my love for my family will long outlast me




вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

Offline ML

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #32 on: October 31, 2018, 08:00:19 PM »
YOU don't care MORE about your FAMILY than yourself or money?
that's ok, your choice

as far as I am concerned it has nothing to do with how much money is in your wallet
but instead how much love is in your heart for your family
I am lucky, I have an abundance of both

going over estate planning made me realize
one day, every single thing I own will belong to someone else
all wealth is transitory
but my love for my family will long outlast me

Pre-nups are not for 'family' in the broad sense.  They are for spouses.

But then you knew this.

And you are merely repeating all the 'saintly' stuff that was stated endlessly in the earlier threads.

A sure sign of insignificant net worth . . . regardless.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Online krimster2

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2018, 08:12:10 PM »
your own words
"Pre-nups are not for 'family' in the broad sense."

actually the reverse is true
in the "BROAD" sense it very much is about family
and is why I don't want or need one

your ASSUMPTION about me was ill-founded and was as a result WRONG
however...
my ASSERTION
that someone who employs a prenup cares more about themselves and money than their family
should be self evident

I am no saint...
the only legal document that exists in regards to “my” wealth
protects my wife’s and children’s interests and not mine

when my father was alive he was my family legal counsel
he didn’t have a prenup either
I know, I was the executor of his estate
and as a full partner in one of the oldest, most respected DC law firms, he was FAR from being poor....

speculating about my net worth is pointless
if you searched my real name on google, you'd see people do it all the time however
I find it annoying

come to think of it there MAY be another reason I feel I don't need a prenup
an offshore trust maintained by nominee directors in the wonderful tax haven of The Isle of Man (love their funny coins!)
which among other things maintains linked accounts in Sterling and USD
since you are American and prefer dollars
the checque below is for you
if I changed your name and my name to the correct ones, and I hadn't scratched out the name of the trust
you would be able to cash this
and the account would still be quite solvent
and then there's always the Sterling account

BTW, what do your offshore account checks look like?

« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 12:38:22 AM by krimster2 »
вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

Offline Jumper

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2018, 12:46:41 AM »
There have been long threads about pre-nups here before.

Some are very much for pre-nups and some talk quite negatively about them.

Then there was a survey of the net worth and yearly income of the guys here.

Turns out that those who were quite negative about pre-nups had virtually no net worth and low yearly earnings.

So those trying for sainthood then, and those trying now, are merely using that as a stand in for their 'have not much to lose anyway.'

pretty snarky considering  if a man has only earned a paid for modest home during his life ,and loses it, it's still everything he had.
In relation to his annual earning power,and years he has left to recover it.  it's a lifes work.



Whether its 15 mil,  5 million or 350,000 the mans views on letting his  ex wife have it would be relative only to his earning potential in years to replace it (and what years he had left)

To be fair I do think you have a point,  its easier to be flippant about less.


However I recall the survey on income and do not recall it bore exacting relevance to the mens positions on prenups as you do.

It's possible, even likely it coincided, but I think there were outliers in both groups just like you see in this thread.

I'm no fan of prenups,  but I certainly recognize that its quite individualistic.
A person with business partners, prior children, various state laws, there are all kinds of contributing factors.

Amusingly, I'll cite something just as
arbitrary in that it *seems* most of the pile of men that have come here over the decade almost specifically to ask the prenup question where:
1.seeking. validation to get one.as they had already made up their minds and just wondered how a fsu woman would react,and scared shirtless they were already screwed.


2. Often had nothing of real true wealth
(But possible a home, small stock portfolio . Which regardless,  were risking  all they had )

3.where normally in complete utter panic mode as they had met a girl once,or twice, proposed and had a k1 going, and THEN it suddenly dawned on them that yea that might lead to marriage, you know ,one of those legal things that could effect their far more precious  pocket books! So  they went on the internet to see what they could find about Russian women and prenups and lighted here or RW gee etc. because countless threads on it from similar last minute freakouts  make it at the top of a Google search of those key words.


It was down right funny to me,
so I likely was a tad less empathetic than I would be to someone who had thought this out well, during a slightly reasonable time of courtship ,had circumstances dictating one,  and had broached the subject with their soon to be wife in more adult fashion than a school boy worried about losing a promise ring he spent his summer job earnings on.

 :popcorn:






« Last Edit: November 06, 2018, 12:53:01 AM by Jumper »
.

Offline Brianbinny

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Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2019, 07:49:48 AM »
No, I would not want a prenuptial agreement before marriage.  I will only marry once and I will not be contemplating divorce before the marriage.  It will be for the rest of my life and/or hers.  I would want to leave everything I own to her if something were to happen to me.  I would want to make sure that she would be taken care of in the event of my death and Id want to have a life insurance policy in case of such an event.

Marriage is a very serious relationship and should be taken as such.  If I have doubts before I marry her, then she is not the woman for me.  If there is a need for a prenuptial agreement then there would be no marriage for me.

Just my two cents...

Offline ML

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2019, 11:47:55 AM »
No, I would not want a prenuptial agreement before marriage.  I will only marry once and I will not be contemplating divorce before the marriage.  It will be for the rest of my life and/or hers.  I would want to leave everything I own to her if something were to happen to me.  I would want to make sure that she would be taken care of in the event of my death and Id want to have a life insurance policy in case of such an event.

Marriage is a very serious relationship and should be taken as such.  If I have doubts before I marry her, then she is not the woman for me.  If there is a need for a prenuptial agreement then there would be no marriage for me.

Just my two cents...

One of the funniest posts I have ever seen here.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Online krimster2

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2019, 12:07:16 PM »
FYI, do you know what's better than a prenup?
holding assets in an offshore trust in a shell company
virtually impossible for a US court to touch or even locate
piece of cake to pass along to your heirs
protects you not just from a divorce but ANY legal shenanigans
just sayin...
вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

Online Gator

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2019, 12:58:24 PM »
FYI, do you know what's better than a prenup?
holding assets in an offshore trust in a shell company
virtually impossible for a US court to touch or even locate
piece of cake to pass along to your heirs
protects you not just from a divorce but ANY legal shenanigans
just sayin...

Anything reported to the IRS is discoverable.  Assuming the offshore trusts are generating income, how  does one avoid reporting to IRS? 

Under FATCA (Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act), financial institutions and entities in safe havens such as Switzerland will now report potential non-compliance by U. S.  citizens.  Even Costa Rica and the Cayman Isnalnds are cooperating with the US.  If not in a safe haven country, do you feel the funds are secure and can be withdrawn?   
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 01:00:55 PM by Gator »

Online krimster2

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2019, 01:22:50 PM »
the simplest approach is to establish an offshore trust or corporation in a tax haven, I like the "Isle of Man" (also great place to visit in the late summer!)
you use what is called a "nominee director" so your name doesn't show up at all on the outside of the trust (so there's no US ownership at all on the outside!)
my director's name comes from a local family in the Isle of Man (they also have cool coins I like to collect!)
then you get a bank account in the trust's name
then you deposit money in the account
the account has to be euros or sterling and not dollars (this is so after the deposit no subsequent transactions will be in dollars - if it's dollars there will be a record back to the USA)
so you do lose some FOREX on the initial transfer, but generally get it back in interest from the deposit
now to fund this transfer
the offshore company writes you an invoice for "something"
you pay the invoice
that's basically it...
as long as you don't do business in the UK you have no tax liability there


« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 01:26:42 PM by krimster2 »
вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2019, 02:04:10 PM »
........the simplest approach is to establish an offshore trust or corporation in a tax haven, I like the "Isle of Man" .............................................. euros or sterling and not dollars . ........................................................

I will need to consult with Moby about the future economic stability of the UK.



Quote
.....   the offshore company writes you an invoice for "something"
you pay the invoice .....
 

And when you want your money, you invoice the company?  If such becomes prevalent the IRS will lobby for some inter-government agreement.   

Offline DaveNY

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2019, 03:00:42 PM »
the simplest approach is to establish an offshore trust or corporation in a tax haven, I like the "Isle of Man" (also great place to visit in the late summer!)
you use what is called a "nominee director" so your name doesn't show up at all on the outside of the trust (so there's no US ownership at all on the outside!)
my director's name comes from a local family in the Isle of Man (they also have cool coins I like to collect!)

The Isle of Man doesn't allow nominee directors. You must be thinking of one of your offshore trusts in other tax havens? Perhaps Luxembourg? Anyone who has a tax haven has at least one in Luxembourg? What about the Cayman Islands? Great weather and a tax haven.

So many other great tax havens. Hell you probably have a trust in all of them?

http://www.demontfordbell.com/isle-man-private-companies

then you get a bank account in the trust's name
then you deposit money in the account
the account has to be euros or sterling and not dollars (this is so after the deposit no subsequent transactions will be in dollars - if it's dollars there will be a record back to the USA)

You're probably thinking of Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) passed in 2010 and went into effect in 2014 (I'm sure you blame Obama for this). FATCA says that any non-U.S. bank must report accounts held by American citizens worth over $50,000. I'm sure the aggregate of your offshore trusts are well into the tens of millions of USD. Hundreds of millions of USD? If the non-US banks don't report such accounts they can be subject to 30% withholding penalties and possible exclusion from U.S. markets.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/102915/tax-implications-opening-foreign-bank-account.asp

BTW it doesn't matter in what currency the offshore trust is in FATCA says it must be reported to the US government.

so you do lose some FOREX on the initial transfer, but generally get it back in interest from the deposit
now to fund this transfer
the offshore company writes you an invoice for "something"
you pay the invoice
that's basically it...
as long as you don't do business in the UK you have no tax liability there

Isle of Man companies pay 0% corporate tax in the UK so it doesn't matter whether or not you do business in the UK. Krimster you really must read up on Isle of Man companies you've undoubtedly missed golden opportunities in the UK to make millions of pounds or euros or USD or Swiss francs.

I have no idea what you're saying with your funding comments. If you're referring to how you get money into your Isle of Man offshore trust, it's really simple. The trust can hold many different types of assets such as bank accounts, property, stocks, bonds.

For example, you could buy a villa in the French Riviera. Transfer funds to a company you've established in an offshore tax haven, say the Caymans. Best not to use the same offshore trust as you want to own the villa, this will make it a little more difficult for US authorities to track. Once that's done transfer ownership to the Isle of Man trust.

If you sell the villa in the future you'll of course not want the funds traceable to you so you'll keep the funds abroad and have them transferred to your US accounts in amounts under $10,000 US.

Hope that's been helpful.

Online krimster2

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2019, 05:14:40 PM »
dewd,

as usual, you have no idea what you're talking about
even the link you provided spells it out for you in VERY simple language, but you just can't understand it
so let me make it simple for you
the terminology they use is "managed company", see below, Ok, l
literally everything you wrote is just misunderstanding on your part, so please step aside or I may have to get physical with you
and your towering height scares me naught, my verbal sling has slain many giants before thee!

"The Isle of Man has for a long time pushed the use of managed companies (these are companies where the local formation agent provides the directors and secretary) instead of companies with client directors.
вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

Offline DaveNY

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2019, 05:22:43 PM »
dewd,

as usual, you have no idea what you're talking about
even the link you provided spells it out for you in VERY simple language, but you just can't understand it
so let me make it simple for you
the terminology they use is "managed company", see below, Ok, l
literally everything you wrote is just misunderstanding on your part, so please step aside or I may have to get physical with you
and your towering height scares me naught, my verbal sling has slain many giants before thee!

"The Isle of Man has for a long time pushed the use of managed companies (these are companies where the local formation agent provides the directors and secretary) instead of companies with client directors.


Then obviously you don't understand the difference between nominee directors and client directors. Probably due to your extensive use of lawyers and accountants to shield yourself and your many millions of USD from the prying eyes of the IRS, FBI, DEA, CIA, NSA, NCIS and the many other alphabet agencies of the government of the USA.

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2019, 06:23:58 PM »
Typical Sting 123 ( masquerading as 'Dave NY')

When busted gets all bitter and makes daft assertions about others' lives...

It is so clear who is googling  to TRY  keep up....and failing miserably
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 01:24:28 AM by msmob »

Online krimster2

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2019, 06:36:59 PM »
wavy davy
you'd better get some ointment for that BURN I gave 'ya....

« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 06:47:55 PM by krimster2 »
вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

Offline Boethius

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2019, 07:28:57 PM »
I've never heard of the concept, in law, of a "client director".  I've only heard of it as a service concept.  So what is it from a legal perspective?

Money managers on the Isle of Man sell the concept of "nominee" directors, but in most common law jurisdictions, including the Isle of Man, there is no such thing as a nominee director in law.  Directors have fiduciary duties to all shareholders, regardless of who appointed them.

I am fairly certain that even if a US citizen's assets are held offshore in a corporation, even behind a trust, there is a tax reporting requirement if the US citizen has any beneficial interest in the assets.  Canada's reporting requirements for offshore assets is based on US law, and it requires reporting of any interest in excess of $10,000.  I know the US thresholds are higher, but I don't know them offhand.

As for prenups, I have personally known very wealthy men who did not have prenuptial agreements.  Most fared just fine, even after losing significant net worth.  Two that come to mind are two men who were very wealthy before they married, and both were in long term marriages (over 20 years) when they divorced.  One's spouse had always been a SAHM, the other became involved in the husband's business.  It was a tech business, operating internationally.  She wasn't on the tech side, though, and her loss would not be felt by the business, whereas his would have been.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 07:41:00 PM by Boethius »
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2019, 07:49:36 PM »
your explanation is TOTALLY why I didn't go into law!!!
don't nitpick the terms
it's the concept that's important
it's like just the other day at breakfast when my family and I were discussing the use of mixed metaphors  between physics and finance
terms like entropy for example
or "Schroedinger's cat" a purely hypothetical cat that exists in a state that is both dead and alive
just like Schroedinger's cat a specific tax/asset protection scheme can be both legal and illegal at the same time...
on one side of the equation  you conduct "business" and on the other side you bank the money
nobody in the USA can look inside the other side, and once the money is no longer in dollars it disappears off the Fed radar

c'mon who here doesn't have phony vendors on their books, pleaze "white folks" give me a break!!!!
remember, you're innocent until someone can prove you guilty
and if it's impossible for someone to prove you're guilty
then it's impossible for you not to be as pure and innocent as fresh snow



« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 07:55:03 PM by krimster2 »
вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

Offline Boethius

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2019, 07:54:31 PM »
I don't have phony vendors in my books.


The problem with attempting to "beat" the Feds is, they have substantial resources at their disposal, and if you are caught, just as millions of those who stashed money in Swiss bank accounts, or offshore accounts did, they penalties are substantial.


Legal concepts exist for a reason.  If, for example, your nominee director decided to authorize the payment of dividends to shareholders other than you, you would have no recourse in law, other than to prove that such an action was not in the best interests of all the shareholders.  If your nominee director fails to do something you wish, same issue.  You are relying on that nominee to do what you wish, and, particularly if that director is appointed by a bank that's managing your assets, he/she may have ideas that don't align with yours.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Online krimster2

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2019, 08:05:52 PM »
"I don't have phony vendors in my books."

well of course not, that would be TERRIBLE    8)

"The problem with attempting to "beat" the Feds is, they have substantial resources at their disposal, and if you are caught..."



it's actually pretty simple to beat the feds, y'know why?  cuz it's supposed to be!
word!
the odds of arousing suspicion enough to trigger an investigation is likely 10,000 to one
and they'd have to tip their hand by having a court order
I already have an airtight defense prepared which I've had verified by one of the best tax lawyers in NYC
I sleep soundly at night (and on silk sheets no less)
and my children will end up with a nice offshore account one day
cuz it looks like my wife and I aren't gonna use it, unless there's a zopmbie apocalypse in the USA possibly this has already occurred, first symptom of infection is believing God sent Donald Trump, this is wrong on so many different levels that I think I will need medication, ahhh yes, that's better, so ummm BO, so what are you wearing now?
would you like to know what I'm imagining that you're wearing???

let's see who will come to your rescue
hopefully the lady doth not protest too much
please don't call "you know" to "get me"
I'll be good, from now on, pinky promise




« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 08:14:42 PM by krimster2 »
вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

 

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