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Author Topic: Prenuptial Agreements  (Read 2958 times)

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Offline BillyB

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« on: July 21, 2018, 07:07:00 PM »
Billy,
You might be OK getting zero in a divorce settlement, but most people arent.


I being in fairness. I'm not okay with getting zero in a divorce settlement. Men should get themselves in a position to where they have good earning potential even after a fall. Most men seem to be scared of the financial damage that comes with divorce. I understand the damage but I'm not scared to marry a woman either.

US divorce laws are generally pretty fair.


True but judges aren't fair. They have biases and care about keeping their job. Today's trend is taking care of women and no judge wants to get into the news for being unfair to women. It may hurt their future should they want to get into politics. After my divorce I told my ex's attorney the judge favors women. She told me all judges favor women and recommends her male clients to settle and she doesn't care if her female clients take it to court. If the state allows in divorce court, get a trial by jury. They aren't likely wanting to impress a woman's group and are more likely to follow state guidelines when it comes to splitting assets. Judges are allowed a lot of discretion in family court and can stray away from state guidelines. Appeal an answer? Not likely. An appellate court will most likely will refuse to hear a disgruntle man who thought the divorce court judge erred by $30k  when other people are appealing million dollar cases or are going to prison for life. Those cases matter more for people affected than a divorce case.

And the law in most states allow a man or woman to keep assets they obtained BEFORE the marriage, as long as it is not comingled.


My state is one of those states that recognize property belonging to the one who purchased it before marriage and awarding that property to that person in the event of a divorce. Lets say you lived together with a woman before marrying and all assets were separated at the time. Lets say you bought a house before marrying the woman. The judge may rule the woman was in a common law marriage with you before legally marrying. Also if the house had little equity in it when you bought it and later married but has a lot of equity in it during a divorce, a judge may feel the wife is entitled to a lot of it. Discretion is the key and a judge can find a way to move assets from one party to another.

imo- A quality FSU lady wants a smart man to take care of her and future children, not an idiot that would sign away everything he owned to someone he knew for a short period of time


People who marry usually don't fully know each other. A guy doesn't have to sign anything away but a woman can view a prenup as a sign the man who wants to marry her doesn't trust her. Prenup are important in certain situations but most people don't need them.

Online DaveNY

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« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2018, 07:29:31 PM »
A guy doesn't have to sign anything away but a woman can view a prenup as a sign the man who wants to marry her doesn't trust her. Prenup are important in certain situations but most people don't need them.

As a lawyer I'd advise people who have some assets to talk to a lawyer about designing a prenup to fit their situation. If you are getting married and have children and assets from a previous relationship, you need a prenup to take care of those assets and children. This is a very common situation.

Own a business and getting married? You need a prenup. There are many small business owners in this situation. In this case a small business can actually be valued well into the millions. The small business owner may not even realize just how much the business is worth.

Have shares of stock, stock options or other equities and getting married? You need a prenup.

Worth over a few hundred thousand dollars and getting married? You need a prenup.

These are just a few of the situations in which an individual might need a prenup designed for their particular situation. Notice I didn't mention man or woman in the post. In today's world there are many very well off women who have assets and need those assets protected just as much as a man might.

If in doubt talk to a lawyer. Not just any lawyer but a lawyer who specializes in writing prenups. 

Offline ML

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« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2018, 09:22:00 PM »
As others have mentioned, Judges have great discretion in divorce settlements; and all Judges female and male favor the women.
That's because they know female support groups will form protests to help women while no one will form a support group to help men.

And the idea that assets acquired prior to marriage and not co-mingled during marriage are safe is totally false.  I know from personal experience of close friends of mine.  I will illustrate how  it happens with just some round numbers.

Example:  Man has 1 million in assets before marriage.  During marriage the couple acquire net worth of 1 million.  No co-mingling of husbands first 1 million.
At divorce, the correct situation would be they split the 1 million so she would end up with $500,000 and he would have his original 1 million plus the $500,000.

In practice, the Judge says to man, yes your separate 1 million is not subject to splitting at divorce.  But since you have the 1 million, I am awarding the entire second 1 million to the wife.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Offline GenMish

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« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2018, 04:53:17 AM »
As others have mentioned, Judges have great discretion in divorce settlements; and all Judges female and male favor the women.
That's because they know female support groups will form protests to help women while no one will form a support group to help men.

And the idea that assets acquired prior to marriage and not co-mingled during marriage are safe is totally false.  I know from personal experience of close friends of mine.  I will illustrate how  it happens with just some round numbers.

Example:  Man has 1 million in assets before marriage.  During marriage the couple acquire net worth of 1 million.  No co-mingling of husbands first 1 million.
At divorce, the correct situation would be they split the 1 million so she would end up with $500,000 and he would have his original 1 million plus the $500,000.

In practice, the Judge says to man, yes your separate 1 million is not subject to splitting at divorce.  But since you have the 1 million, I am awarding the entire second 1 million to the wife.

In my State, the judge has little discretion in division of assets. Marital assets are 50 50, in some cases 49 51. Uncomingled assets held properly from before the marriage belong 100% to the holder. Sooooooo In my state the man you used in the example would keep 1.5 million.

However the judge has LOTS of discretion in alimony, custody and child support.....and that's where you hear people complaining about unfair judges. The judge could conclude the guy was a jerk, and throw on a couple of extra thousand a month in Alimony, or could conclude the woman was a gold digger trying to get the previously held assets and reduce the Alimony from a fair number

Offline BillyB

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« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2018, 10:51:12 AM »
In my State, the judge has little discretion in division of assets.


I don't believe that. Can you show us a government website that? There's so many gray areas when dividing assets that all the rules can't be written in a book and that is why family court judges have a lot of discretion.

Sooooooo In my state the man you(ML) used in the example would keep 1.5 million.


Based on the scenario ML mention that's the way it's supposed to happen in many states but it doesn't. If that man lived in your state and a judge ruled he doesn't get to keep the 1.5 million, there's nothing a guy can do but appeal and it's a long shot for the ruling to get reversed. If the appeal court does hear the case and ruled the judge didn't follow state guidelines, they won't necessarily rule on what the percentage should be. They will send it back to the lower court judge to adjust his ruling. The lower court judge may not give the guy 1.5 million. The judge may give the guy 1.1 million and the ex 900k.

If allowed in a state, get a trial by jury for a divorce. A jury of peers are more likely to follow state guidelines and not worry about using discretion or the consequences of a woman's group coming after them.

Offline GenMish

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« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2018, 11:33:21 AM »
I don't believe that. Can you show us a government website that? There's so many gray areas when dividing assets that all the rules can't be written in a book and that is why family court judges have a lot of discretion.

Based on the scenario ML mention that's the way it's supposed to happen in many states but it doesn't. If that man lived in your state and a judge ruled he doesn't get to keep the 1.5 million, there's nothing a guy can do but appeal and it's a long shot for the ruling to get reversed. If the appeal court does hear the case and ruled the judge didn't follow state guidelines, they won't necessarily rule on what the percentage should be. They will send it back to the lower court judge to adjust his ruling. The lower court judge may not give the guy 1.5 million. The judge may give the guy 1.1 million and the ex 900k.

If allowed in a state, get a trial by jury for a divorce. A jury of peers are more likely to follow state guidelines and not worry about using discretion or the consequences of a woman's group coming after them.


Here is an article for you that discusses some points between "Community Property States(50/50)" vs "Equitable Distribution States." There is some other basic information about divorce. IMO- I doubt MLs example would happen even in a Equitable Distribution State. Equitable Distribution States have guidelines for Judges.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jefflanders/2011/04/12/understanding-how-assets-get-divided-in-divorce/#51b6566b2b66



btw- Georgia is the only State that allows for a jury to determine division of assets. But I wouldn't recommend that, because the legal fees would be astronomical. The couple is better off letting their attorneys make a deal and avoid the trial costs. 
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 11:38:29 AM by GenMish »

Offline BillyB

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« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2018, 11:57:41 AM »
Here is an article for you that discusses some points between "Community Property States(50/50)" vs "Equitable Distribution States." There is some other basic information about divorce. IMO- I doubt MLs example would happen even in a Equitable Distribution State. Equitable Distribution States have guidelines for Judges.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jefflanders/2011/04/12/understanding-how-assets-get-divided-in-divorce/#51b6566b2b66


Article only talks about state guidelines. Doesn't mention the judge's role and restrictions doing his job. Judges are human and in family court law, they are allowed a lot of discretion to judge value of assets and how to split them up. Almost after every court case there is one or both parties upset with the judge's decision and if judges weren't allowed a lot of discretion, there would be tons of appeals. If you want to appeal a divorce like I did, you will be given this info by attorneys. Chances to win an appeal is minimal. An appeal should only be done to get the other party to agree to settle for something different than what the judge had ruled on. The guy ML knew should've appealed.

btw- Georgia is the only State that allows for a jury to determine division of assets.
 

Who's telling you that?

http://www.sandiegodivorceattorneysblog.com/jury-trial-for-a-divorce/

I wouldn't recommend that, because the legal fees would be astronomical. The couple is better off letting their attorneys make a deal and avoid the trial costs. 

Ask the guy that ML knows how much it cost him letting a single person, a judge, make all the decisions. A jury of 6 or 12 are less likely to stray from state guidelines than a judge would.

Offline GenMish

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« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2018, 12:15:36 PM »
Article only talks about state guidelines. Doesn't mention the judge's role and restrictions doing his job. Judges are human and in family court law, they are allowed a lot of discretion to judge value of assets and how to split them up. Almost after every court case there is one or both parties upset with the judge's decision and if judges weren't allowed a lot of discretion, there would be tons of appeals. If you want to appeal a divorce like I did, you will be given this info by attorneys. Chances to win an appeal is minimal. An appeal should only be done to get the other party to agree to settle for something different than what the judge had ruled on. The guy ML knew should've appealed.

Who's telling you that?

http://www.sandiegodivorceattorneysblog.com/jury-trial-for-a-divorce/

Ask the guy that ML knows how much it cost him letting a single person, a judge, make all the decisions. A jury of 6 or 12 are less likely to stray from state guidelines than a judge would.

Billy
Do you read the articles you post? Your article discusses what few States allow a jury trial, and what the juries can rule on. The Jury has very narrow authority in most states. Only in Georgia can a jury rule on division of marital assets

I thought MLs case was a fictious one. If a guy really is out there saying that he got zero of the marital assets, he is a liar. Now I can see a guy trying to save face with friends after getting a divorce saying that . A guy adding a FSU wife onto his 5 million dollar estate, and upon losing half of it  claiming it was the judges fault to his buddies because he didnt want to admit he added his new young wife to the deeds is possible
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 12:19:04 PM by GenMish »

Online DaveNY

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« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2018, 12:30:29 PM »
As others have mentioned, Judges have great discretion in divorce settlements; and all Judges female and male favor the women.
That's because they know female support groups will form protests to help women while no one will form a support group to help men.

And the idea that assets acquired prior to marriage and not co-mingled during marriage are safe is totally false.  I know from personal experience of close friends of mine.  I will illustrate how  it happens with just some round numbers.

Example:  Man has 1 million in assets before marriage.  During marriage the couple acquire net worth of 1 million.  No co-mingling of husbands first 1 million.
At divorce, the correct situation would be they split the 1 million so she would end up with $500,000 and he would have his original 1 million plus the $500,000.

In practice, the Judge says to man, yes your separate 1 million is not subject to splitting at divorce.  But since you have the 1 million, I am awarding the entire second 1 million to the wife.

ML, that's not the way divorce law works, in general. There may be some exceptional circumstances such as the woman is disabled and unable to find work that might lead to a ruling which gives more assets to the woman than she'd usually receive.

This is also a good example of why the man should have a prenup before marrying. It's also important to make sure the prenup is done well before the marriage takes place. This will make sure there's no question that the prenup was not forced on the woman just before marriage leaving her with little opportunity to read, understand and seek counsel before signing the prenup.

Offline BillyB

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« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2018, 01:02:48 PM »
Billy
Do you read the articles you post? Your article discusses what few States allow a jury trial, and what the juries can rule on. The Jury has very narrow authority in most states. Only in Georgia can a jury rule on division of marital assets


If ML's friend was living in Texas, a Texas jury determines what is separate and community property, not the judge. What can hurt a person is the judge unfairly determining what is separate and what is community. After a jury decides, a judge can then split up the community property. A judge is also less likely to inject his/her bias in a jury trial.

I thought MLs case was a fictious one.


I can easily believe it. I bought a house and property before marrying my first wife. We had separate bank accounts. We didn't comingle any assets. We were still dating but when I bought the house and property, she was living in my other house. The house should've been mine but the judge considered it a marriage even before we legally married so the ex got half of the equity in the property. There were two appraisers at the trial. My expert appraiser was lower. The ex's appraiser was higher because he failed to take into account there are power lines and wetland on the property. He chose to believe my ex's appraiser and forced me to quickly to get that money to the ex. He said there's $300,000 equity in that house and the ex gets $150,000 and a $20,000 car. We were married for only 3 1/2 years and she wasn't making any money. The judge didn't even factor in a $7500 loan I made to the ex's family to get returned.

No way I could've sold at the price the ex's appraiser said it was worth so I had to sell for less. The house wasn't fully paid off yet so after the sale, the bank took their cut which left $151,500. The wife got $150,000 and I got $1500. A house that should be 100% mine according to my state's laws was split 99% to my wife and 1% to me. She got almost all of it. Of course I had another house before the ex moved in with me that the judge allowed me to keep . My case is almost as bad as the case ML described with one house to the husband and other house to the wife.

Most people aren't smart enough to get it on how judges can move money from one person to another and pretend it's fair but I recognized right away what my judge was doing. I pleaded with him that although the house is in my name, to please allow my wife and her attorney to be in charge of the sale and give me half of what's left over after the bank takes their money. He refused. Deep down he knew my ex wasn't going to get the $150,000 he wanted her to get if she was in charge of the sale. Deep down he knew her appraiser was wrong but chose that appraiser because it'll get her more.

GenMish, you are idealistic and feel many of the divorce laws are fair and judge's can't deviate from them. More and more American men today are refusing to get married. Many of them are scared what can happen to them in the event of a divorce. I was like you one time believing a judge must follow the rule of law but after watching my divorce unfold, I'm a believer on how judges use their discretion to greatly favor one party over another.

Offline GenMish

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« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2018, 01:46:05 PM »
If ML's friend was living in Texas, a Texas jury determines what is separate and community property, not the judge. What can hurt a person is the judge unfairly determining what is separate and what is community. After a jury decides, a judge can then split up the community property. A judge is also less likely to inject his/her bias in a jury trial.

I can easily believe it. I bought a house and property before marrying my first wife. We had separate bank accounts. We didn't comingle any assets. We were still dating but when I bought the house and property, she was living in my other house. The house should've been mine but the judge considered it a marriage even before we legally married so the ex got half of the equity in the property. There were two appraisers at the trial. My expert appraiser was lower. The ex's appraiser was higher because he failed to take into account there are power lines and wetland on the property. He chose to believe my ex's appraiser and forced me to quickly to get that money to the ex. He said there's $300,000 equity in that house and the ex gets $150,000 and a $20,000 car. We were married for only 3 1/2 years and she wasn't making any money. The judge didn't even factor in a $7500 loan I made to the ex's family to get returned.

No way I could've sold at the price the ex's appraiser said it was worth so I had to sell for less. The house wasn't fully paid off yet so after the sale, the bank took their cut which left $151,500. The wife got $150,000 and I got $1500. A house that should be 100% mine according to my state's laws was split 99% to my wife and 1% to me. She got almost all of it. Of course I had another house before the ex moved in with me that the judge allowed me to keep . My case is almost as bad as the case ML described with one house to the husband and other house to the wife.

Most people aren't smart enough to get it on how judges can move money from one person to another and pretend it's fair but I recognized right away what my judge was doing. I pleaded with him that although the house is in my name, to please allow my wife and her attorney to be in charge of the sale and give me half of what's left over after the bank takes their money. He refused. Deep down he knew my ex wasn't going to get the $150,000 he wanted her to get if she was in charge of the sale. Deep down he knew her appraiser was wrong but chose that appraiser because it'll get her more.

GenMish, you are idealistic and feel many of the divorce laws are fair and judge's can't deviate from them. More and more American men today are refusing to get married. Many of them are scared what can happen to them in the event of a divorce. I was like you one time believing a judge must follow the rule of law but after watching my divorce unfold, I'm a believer on how judges use their discretion to greatly favor one party over another.

Let me give you some advice Billy

When you obviously(and so poorly) try to mislead people, I can understand why the judge trusted your ex and not you. Personally I would believe you sold the property to a family member 150k below market value than your story.

Why? Because I am basing my opinion of you on what little info I have with you.  You tried to mislead our audience because Texas jurors can determine marital property value while ignoring our disagreement about division of assets ........this quote from your posted article

"Jurors in Texas can also determine the value of the assets, and determine which assets are considered separate property versus community property. However, the Judge will be the one to actually determine the division of such assets. "

Judges HATE liars and those that are out to deceive, even when its trivial stuff.

My advice to you is to be truthful with a judge, they are pros as to seeing through liars. That way if you were actually telling the truth about your 150k injustice, it wont be repeated the next time

Offline BillyB

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« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2018, 02:49:05 PM »
Let me give you some advice Billy

When you obviously(and so poorly) try to mislead people, I can understand why the judge trusted your ex and not you.


I don't think you've ever been married because you don't have any experience with divorce. Length of marriage and time assets were purchased are all documented on paper so a person can't lie about it. Expert witnesses are used for high dollar assets such as property. A person can't lie about the value of the property because expert witnesses are considered the experts on value. Of course good attorneys know which appraisers appraise high and low compared to others and use the ones they need to benefit their clients.

Even if a person lied in court or is an asshole, if they were in a 30 year marriage and deserves 50% of everything based off state guidelines, a judge is not supposed to punish them for being a more of a liar or asshole than their spouse.

Personally I would believe you sold the property to a family member 150k below market value than your story.


You've been watching too many movies thinking a soon to be ex spouse can simply screw the other spouse by selling the property for way below value. In divorce court, the judge or jury figures out how much equity is in the property after an appraiser estimates it's value. If it is decided it's split 50/50, the judge tells the person in charge of selling the home to give the other party a set amount based off known numbers to calculate equity. So if a judge tells me to give $150,000 to a soon to be ex based off his belief there is $300,000 equity, I can't do what you think I'm capable of doing by selling the property far below market value because I'll only screw myself.

GenMish, you are of the impression judges can't deviate from State guidelines and don't have a lot of discretion. Everybody who tells you differently are liars and deserve what they got if a judge punished them. Your mind can't be changed but for other guys reading, they may find some valuable info from those who been there, seen that, done that.

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2018, 04:08:02 PM »
Whether it is believed or not by some here . . . my example was real and happened to two men that I know.

And I know of a third case.

Man and wife had a small real estate development (no, this is not me).
They had sold off maybe half the lots and had banked the cash which was after taxes and after all development costs paid.
Divorce proceedings started.
Wife's attorney presented figures showing the wife to keep the after tax after costs cash and man to get the acres remaining times sales price.
Man's attorney rightly pointed out that was comparing apples to oranges.
Judge said he had no intention of getting bogged down in trying to measure different types of dollars; and awarded as the wife's attorney presented.
Man's attorney said it would cost a ton to appeal, and he had never seen a judge's opinion overturned anyway.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 04:09:51 PM by ML »
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Offline BillyB

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2018, 10:29:12 PM »
Man's attorney said it would cost a ton to appeal, and he had never seen a judge's opinion overturned anyway.


I got another attorney for an appeal after my divorce. She told me no matter how unfair the judge was in the divorce trial, judges are allowed a lot of discretion and it's not a reason for an appellate court to hear my case. She said there's a 5% chance they may hear the case IF she could prove the judge did something wrong presiding over the case but even if the appellate court agrees to hear the case and rule in our favor, they will send it back to the lower court to have the same judge revise his ruling which may not be much different than the first ruling.

So why did I pursue the appeal with the odds being against me? Because there's a chance to save money. Going after an appeal buys me time and I wouldn't have to sell the house so quickly. The ex being fully divorced from me would have to pay for her own attorney. Going after an appeal also plants a seed in their head they could lose big which motivated them to settle for less. I paid over $5k to start the appeal process and saved tens of thousands of dollars. They ex still got over 50% of the equity in the house but at least it wasn't 99% anymore.

We had to visit our divorce judge one more time and the judge didn't seem happy I went after an appeal disagreeing with his ruling. Judges hate it when an appellate court reverses their rulings. It may affect future promotions if they have a reputation for being wrong often.

Offline GenMish

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2018, 07:52:01 AM »
Whether it is believed or not by some here . . . my example was real and happened to two men that I know.

And I know of a third case.

Man and wife had a small real estate development (no, this is not me).
They had sold off maybe half the lots and had banked the cash which was after taxes and after all development costs paid.
Divorce proceedings started.
Wife's attorney presented figures showing the wife to keep the after tax after costs cash and man to get the acres remaining times sales price.
Man's attorney rightly pointed out that was comparing apples to oranges.
Judge said he had no intention of getting bogged down in trying to measure different types of dollars; and awarded as the wife's attorney presented.
Man's attorney said it would cost a ton to appeal, and he had never seen a judge's opinion overturned anyway.

That cant be the whole story. The obvious solution in that case was to divide that after tax money,  order the remaining acres sold, and split those proceeds

Im kinda liking this thread, I don't feel so taken advantage of anymore by paying my attorney $400/hr to accomplish the obvious

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2018, 08:57:20 AM »
In the UK prenups ARE becoming sl.more prevalent - but most are thrown out by family court judges - esp. where kids are involved

I actually agree with BillyB on something - if you marry someone you may not trust - don't get married 

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2018, 09:12:14 AM »
This post is going to be very harsh and likely its a shit way to make a first post, but I saw the topic on prenups and couldnt help but to give my input.

Prenups are worthless, they can be thrown out on grounds such as being "unfair", with "unfair" being decided by the same biased against men family court judge.

Prenups are just a psychological defense, an intimidation so your ex decides not move against you and take everything you have because of the hassle of fighting the prenup. It cant be anything more, when the entire validity of the prenup, no latter how well made, is entirely dependent on a family court judge's hammer.

But just like a guy will drive to snow and mud to get a treasure , a woman will fight a completely winnable uphill battle if the prize is good enough for her. And once the prenup us tossed out, your uphill battle begins, one that can be way harder than hers. These risks are only made worse when having children, because you fall under even more family court laws.

And dont think not getting married will save you, because of common law marriage laws.

I know this post sounds harsh, but I think its fair to clarify how we are virtually destitute and defenseless in the legal area, and how if we get screwed up or not depends entirely on our woman's willingness to screw us or not and that if she does, the law is against us. These are the risks we are signing in for when living with a woman as a husband or even boyfriend (common law marriage) or when having children with her. And we have to be aware of those risks, even if it sucks.

My advice: Take steps to ensure you never fall under marriage laws and family court laws. Get a world class lawyer and study and cover all possible holes.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 01:23:10 PM by WifeSeeker »

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2018, 09:35:22 AM »
My advice: Take steps to ensure you never fall under marriage laws and family court laws. Get a world class lawyer and study and cover all possible holes.

But you have already told us earlier that none of this (like a prenup) really protects in the end result.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Offline WifeSeeker

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2018, 09:48:00 AM »
But you have already told us earlier that none of this (like a prenup) really protects in the end result.

Well you could, I guess, live with her in Russia without marrying her (assuming Russia doesnt have common law marriage) or live in a country with sane divorce laws and judges.

If it is in the US though..... I honestly dont know what you can do. Maybe a world class lawyer could build up a tight proof strategy that family courts cant touch. But I dont know if such a thing exists.

About children, I am at loss with this one, if you want to have children with your woman, I dont know if its possible without playing the (no pun intended) Russian Roulette and subject yourself to all the laws that come with that, like child support.

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2018, 09:50:22 AM »
Well of course there should be child support.

It is the losing of substantial assets and alimony payments that are the killer.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2018, 10:23:44 AM »
Well of course there should be child support.

It is the losing of substantial assets and alimony payments that are the killer.

Child support in and on itself, the way it should work its not bad, it is in fact only fair.

The problem is that family courts use them to screw you if they cant in divorce. There are also insane child support rulings where you are ordered to keep your children (and of course by extension their mother, who family courts almost always give custody to) at "the lifestyle they are used to". Which pretty much takes away significant assets, maybe half or even nearly everything.

In essence child support is now less about supporting the child and has become a placeholder alimony and assets removal weapon.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 10:46:01 AM by WifeSeeker »

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2018, 12:48:58 PM »
Sighs

As someone who has won the t-shirt I will repeat .. Pre-nups are for those who shouldn't become Husbands / Wives and esp parents .. in the first place




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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2018, 01:25:22 PM »
Sighs

As someone who has won the t-shirt I will repeat .. Pre-nups are for those who shouldn't become Husbands / Wives and esp parents .. in the first place

Why not? There is nothing wrong with wanting to be protected. Prenups are only activated in the event of a divorce, so if you are so sure your marriage will last forever, you should have no problem signing one. After all, it will never become effective, right?

But as I said earlier, at the end of the day prenups are worthless, because they are as valid as a family court judge's hammer says it is.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 01:27:05 PM by WifeSeeker »

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2018, 01:40:37 PM »
Why not? There is nothing wrong with wanting to be protected. Prenups are only activated in the event of a divorce, so if you are so sure your marriage will last forever, you should have no problem signing one. After all, it will never become effective, right?

But as I said earlier, at the end of the day prenups are worthless, because they are as valid as a family court judge's hammer says it is.

I think you are missing the point - by even asking an intended to sign one, you are saying I do not trust you how you will be in the future - SIMPLES

Isn't this about sharing  in good times and bad - for richer and poorer, etc.,

I walked from a relationship - not into someone else's arms - just could not live with the former love of my life ....  it was worth every penny I lost, financially


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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2018, 02:46:00 PM »
Sighs

As someone who has won the t-shirt I will repeat .. Pre-nups are for those who shouldn't become Husbands / Wives and esp parents .. in the first place

In the US there are valid reasons for a prenup. Prenups are state issues and vary by state. If a husband or wife has children from a previous relationship then it is wise to have a prenup to protect their financial interests in case of divorce or death.

Some business relationships will require a prenup. For example, if one spouse owns a business in partnership with several others there may be a need to have a prenup to complement the business ownership agreement(s). For example, if one owner dies what happens to that owner's share of the business? Does it go to the other owners? To the surviving spouse? To the children?

 

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