Help the human beings in Donbass, please!

[The Natural]

There is a war going on over Donbass, as most of you know. This isn't a thread meant to discuss the politics of it all. What the meaning is, is to see if you can consider a few Things, some observations I've learned over the past months concerning the situation so many ordinary folks are going through in Donbass.

Since the civil war started in 2014, most People in Donbass (and for that matter elsewhere too) have lives going from acceptable to grave poverty, many times outright starvation and not being able to buy medicines or other necessities and take care of their own children like children are supposed to be taken care of in a normal world.

I am by no means a wealthy man, not even Close, but I'm trying to help at least a few. It is wonderful to see, in text and photos and sometimes video, that help gets through and even though you're not saving millions, at least you're saving a few for another month.

But this is not about me. Let me tell you about some of what I've learned, from People "on the ground", involved in charity fuelled by, almost always, ordinary caring People.

Those People living off a pension do get their pension from the Ukrainian government. It is typically around the 3000 rouble range (ca. USD 50). But that comes With conditions. Every other month they will have to cross the front and into Ukraine to collect their pension. A pretty sizeable chunk of the pensions goes then to transportation, not to mention the risk they might encounter and the fact that obviously many are too old or sick or need to care for their children, to make the trip in the first Place.

A pension of about 2900 roubles are given within the Donbass region as I have understood it, so they are not left without anything, but anyone would understand that feeding and caring for yourself for less than 50 bucks a month, not to mention Your children too, is a pretty desperate case.

Some of the stories, that I know of personally:

Single mother of a 2 1/2 year old daughter, living in an old house in Zaitsevo (right at the front) With her mother and grandmother. Father lives in the same village With another woman. House is shelled and they are rescued by neighbours from the rubble. A big hole in the roof that are not fixed because of lack of Money and able men to do repairs. Mother is helped to get an Apartment and moved With her small child to the less Dangerous Place, the city of Gorvovka. Then her father is killed back in Zaitsevo by shelling of the house that he lived in.

Mother in a wheelchair living in an old house outside Donetsk With her two children. She earlier had a decent life, worked, had Resources and took care of her Family. Not related to the war, one day her own husband threw a grenade in the car she was sitting in. She was badly injured and had to amputate both her legs, now confined to a wheelchair having to raise two children on 50 bucks a month.

Single mother With two boys. She contracts tuberculosis, which I have learned is not unusual there now. She has not enough Money, so she practically starves herself in order to care for her children. An elderly woman takes the children in her care while the mother has to go to hospital for treatment.

It is now nearing the start of a New schoolyear. The government takes care of the salaries for the Teachers but parents must buy books, pencils and such. A few are helped through donations, but many are not.

A couple established a home for disadvantaged children, some With Down Syndrome, others With no parents anymore. They use their own property and receive only praise but no Money from authorities. Practical help is given by volunteers With no pay.
They received some aid from a private organization that was helped to buy and distribute it to them by a local motorcycle Club. When asked (they never volunteer info without being asked first) what they were in most need of, they replied a van so that they could take the children out for trips and also make purchases of Food, and so on. An apparently rather wealthy man from Oslo upon hearing about that, has pledged to donated Money for a van. This is a relatively Bright story, but many are not helped at all, unfortunately.

Banking in Donbass doesn't work, but banking in Russia Works and Money from Russia to Donbass can be transferred. I believe the limit is 15000 roubles per transaction. If there is a will, there is a way!

[BillyB]

This isn't a thread meant to discuss the politics of it all.

Unfortunately, differences in politics lead to conflicts. the reality is, without a political solution, the situation isn't going to change.

My wife, MIL and mother helped people on the other side of the fence that was affected by the conflict with financial contributions and sending boxes of shoes and clothes. Good to hear you have a heart too.

[GQBlues]

The Natural-

I'm not sure if you have any info regarding American Red Cross efforts in Donbass region and Ukraine?

Not too long ago, wifey and I decided to pull some of our resource and laid donations to Hurricanes Harvey, Irma, Napa Wildfire and the wars in Syria and Ukraine with the red cross. Although it's something we understand we can never tracked, we still hoped it ultimately arrived to the intended.

Sad to hear from your report that things have hardly eased up for the folks directly affected by the conflict. But anything you can share here regarding international charitable agencies that is worthy, please share.

[The Natural]

The Natural-

I'm not sure if you have any info regarding American Red Cross efforts in Donbass region and Ukraine?

Not too long ago, wifey and I decided to pull some of our resource and laid donations to Hurricanes Harvey, Irma, Napa Wildfire and the wars in Syria and Ukraine with the red cross. Although it's something we understand we can never tracked, we still hoped it ultimately arrived to the intended.

Sad to hear from your report that things have hardly eased up for the folks directly affected by the conflict. But anything you can share here regarding international charitable agencies that is worthy, please share.

Thank you GQBlues. I personally don't believe in big charity organizations where Your donations for good causes are untraceable and might go to, in parts at least, others than those intended by the giver.

Personally, my contacts are Facebook-oriented and thus, I cannot for their safety post information. But a FB-search should bring up organizations and individuals involved in helping. As is true everywhere else however, I would recommend People first spend some time to make sure they donate to thrustworty parties. One can join a FB group, watch videos of People in need and read what it is about, it's usually in Russian, but With Google Translation one usually get the Picture. The serious and dependable helpers make posts With text, photos/videos of the People being helped by you, the bags of Foods you bought for example and a receipt. This is absolutely necessary in order to create trust.

The most challenging thing might be moving funds to Donbass. In my case I use someone in my country to send to a Third party in Russia, who then send to Donbass. Seems like a hassle, but no big deal when one gets used to it.

[JayH]

There is a war going on over Donbass, as most of you know. This isn't a thread meant to discuss the politics of it all. What the meaning is, is to see if you can consider a few Things, some observations I've learned over the past months concerning the situation so many ordinary folks are going through in Donbass.

Since the civil war started in 2014, most People in Donbass (and for that matter elsewhere too) have lives going from acceptable to grave poverty, many times outright starvation and not being able to buy medicines or other necessities and take care of their own children like children are supposed to be taken care of in a normal world.


Some of the stories, that I know of personally:

What a hypocritical pious piece of crap you write.

You know damn well this is not a "civil war" but a Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Your few examples -- that you "know personally"  are you kidding? There are millions displaced, injuries,deaths,suffering of UKRAINIANS caused by the RUSSIAN INVASION and  occupation  of UKRAINE.

I have seen first hand close up myself the devastation the Russians have wreaked on innocent people and the plight of UKRAINIANS !!

Why don't you tell Krimster here on the forum how good everything is now under the Russian occupation of Crimea?

[krimster2]

my wife and I had a conversation about this subject this morning
until this trip, she was what I call a "rodina rodoslovnoy"  someone who loved her homeland warts and all
this trip changed that, she said she doesn't want to go back anymore, because of how much deterioration there was!
I was shocked when I heard these words, she usually goes to Crimea roughly every 3 years to see her sister
not wanting to go back "blew my mind", I never could have predicted that!

the other thing she observed was the "yelling" thing that I mentioned
and that within her family she thought this had intensified, due to the increased stress they feel, post Russian annexation
and she sees how sometimes she does this, although not even .1% of what her family does
and she saw how toxic it was and vowed not to do it herself!!!
you have NO IDEA how happy this made me!!!!

can't imagine life in Donbass...
but JayH is 100% correct, this is NOT a civil war
it's only meant to LOOK that way and that's an integral part of  Russia's strategy
as Jesus said, "let the dead bury the dead, all those who want to live should follow me" and he took the next bus out of Donbass
you really want to help the people in Donbass? get them bus tickets...

[JayH]

Krimster -the idiot The Natural  has been telling us for 4 years what a great thing it is Russia has done and is doing -- and about the vazis in Kyiv etc etc

The only saving grace in his post above is that at least he was not drunk(  as he usually is when he posts or came to chat) and his post is not filled with abuse !
I might add - I applaud any human empathy --but in his case he has long ago shown he has none-- none for the victims of the Russian invasion .

[JayH]

Krimster --on wife yelling etc -- nothing like seeing it as an "outsider" does to illustrate a point I am in no doubt has been difficult to make !

Going back a lot of years !! ( too many!!)  --  a very good friend tried to calm down my reactions -- the philosophy ---- will it matter in a year --will it matter in a month-- will it matter in a week --will it matter tomorrow- will it matter in an hour etc so think first about the best way to get what you really want in any given situation etc etc

[krimster2]

you're right Jay, I remember when I heard him use the phrase "useless eater", the last time I read that phrase, well never mind...

BTW, just discovered Waltzing Matilda by The Irish Tenors, do you know of more like this?

[krimster2]

"Krimster --on wife yelling etc -- nothing like seeing it as an "outsider" does to illustrate a point I am in no doubt has been difficult to make !"

yup, that's what it took for her to see it!!!

I'm kind of headed in that trajectory as you Jay
in 3 more years I'm going to have an empty nest, I'm planning on going into "full retirement mode" then
we're trying to decide on the next place to live because this house is too big for us without kids
when I retire, I intend to completely stop everything and find a low maintenance place to live that's close to nature
we're looking at living part time in a condo on the ocean near my former home in either Maryland or Virginia, central east coast USA
AND to buy a small place in either UK or "The Netherlands" and live there part time on a tourist visa and rent it out to AirBnb when we're not there
I was blown away by how cool it was taking a small boat through the canals in Amsterdam and up North into the IJmeer and then exploring the wetlands
totally "lekker" would love to spend my "remaining days" there, what an AWESOME place AND people!!!

[BdHvA]

BTW, just discovered Waltzing Matilda

I would suggest understanding the meaning of the lyrics of Waltzing Matilda. You feelings for the song might just change.

[msmob]

Not a CHANCE of me contributing ...

The Kremlin are TOTALLY to blame for creating unrest in Ukraine and it's up to them to either support the 'government' ( sic) or withdraw

Simples

[The Natural]

What I wrote the other day is dead serious on my part. But it was not written With the hope of great shows of humanism on this site. As some old-timers might have figured out, me as well as a bunch of others have kind of lost the enthusiasm for RWD after what it's become the past few years, to put it lightly.

I've decided to ignore the noise made in this thread. It is useless to engage in and counterproductive to my aim; to appeal to the decency of members here. To let go of politics and realize People are suffering and dying in Donbass, and as I mentioned, probably also suffering on the other side but I don't know as much about that, so I can't comment further.

So focusing on the positive here; I greatly appreciate the Words of GQBlues. Here's a person who cares and want to make a difference. I've known him on this forum for years, think he was here when I joined in '11. Had a stupid argument With him once about me meddling in US politics or something, haha. Never mind, I always thought to myself he's a pretty smart guy anyway. And now he's proved to me he is also a caring guy.

Not so With others I will not mention.

Well, upon Reading Your post a couple times more BillyB, I think you also have Your heart in the right Place.

Listen, what really matters is helping People in dire need. I know as well as the next guy that there are millions, billions in need all over the world. But I Write about Donbass because it's near to my heart, I know People there and I have decided that's the Place I want to make a tiny bit of difference.

The rest of you must do what's right for you and Your conscience. I've told my piece, now you tell me what you want to do. Just remember, hate Speech, blaming, speculations and ridicule never filled the empty stomach of the People starving!

[krimster2]

"I would suggest understanding the meaning of the lyrics of Waltzing Matilda. You feelings for the song might just change."

go on youtube look up "Waltzing Matilda by The Irish Tenors" if there are multiple versions choose the one with the WWI images

even someone like ME understands the meaning of this song
and completely captures my feeling at the moment, maybe why it resonates SO much
next year, lotta people will be singing songs like this in Ukraine, indeed some already are
but I'm REALLY tired of feeling this way, Ukraine/Russia and I are going to part company...
when I was younger I used to make fun old "old men" who turned into misanthropes
now, as karma would have it, I am becoming one myself
 

[BdHvA]

Jay,

Perhaps you might wish to explain the background and meaning to Waltzing Mathilda to RWD.

I am confident Sandro can this do, but the context might come better from a native.

Bd

[krimster2]

not talking about the original AT ALL
the version I was referencing is an anti-war song
click on it if you don't understand



have you come here for an argument?

[JayH]

K   --  I have seen previously --it is a very moving song and graphics.
For those unaware -- it is referencing   an Australian & New Zealand   ( ANZACS)  catastrophic ill conceived attempt to land at Gallipoli  in World War 1 where massive casualties were inflicted by the Turks.

The site is now considered sacred by Australia,NZ  and Turkey -- with many thousands of Australians going there every year to commemorate what has become an important day in Australia and New Zealand  and ANZAC day is a national holiday on April 25th

.Anzac Day is a national day of remembrance in Australia and New Zealand that broadly commemorates all Australians and New Zealanders "who served and died in all wars, conflicts, and peacekeeping ...

The song referenced "Waltzing Matilda"

"Waltzing Matilda" is Australia's best-known bush ballad, and has been described as the country's "unofficial national anthem".

The title was Australian slang for travelling on foot (waltzing) with one's belongings in a "matilda" (swag) slung over one's back.[2] The song narrates the story of an itinerant worker, or "swagman", making a drink of billy tea at a bush camp and capturing a stray jumbuck (sheep) to eat. When the jumbuck's owner, a squatter (landowner), and three mounted policemen pursue the swagman for theft, he declares "You'll never catch me alive!" and commits suicide by drowning himself in a nearby billabong (watering hole), after which his ghost haunts the site.

The original lyrics were written in 1895 by Australian poet Banjo Paterson, and were first published as sheet music in 1903. Extensive folklore surrounds the song and the process of its creation


The Irish connection  -- many Australian migrants - both forced and voluntary were Irish  or had strong Irish connections. Historically -- Australians have shown an irreverent streak most probably rooted in that connection  and a common distaste for the English authorities.

Slim Dusty --  Walzing Matilda

[krimster2]

jay

it's just another adventure in "arguing for the sake of arguing" although I'm sure he will vehemently disagree
it bores me to tears
but IT IS a terrific song
and I'm actually sorry now that I brought it here

 

[JayH]

jay

it's just another adventure in "arguing for the sake of arguing" although I'm sure he will vehemently disagree
it bores me to tears
but IT IS a terrific song
and I'm actually sorry now that I brought it here

You know K-  I am glad you did --that clip brings out the same sort of emotions in me that I feel for the people of Ukraine suffering a war inflicted on them.
I have seen first hand people suffering the loss of loved ones--  of men- young men and older men-- who have been injured in the east and will spend the rest of their lives living with disabilities.
It is all too easy to think the "nothing to do with me" sentiment and ignore real human crisis in distant lands.

[krimster2]

yes, but what can be done about it?

you should have seen what the hell I saw in Crimea!!!!!
they are going full blast gearing up for war
while Ukraine can barely keep the lid on Donbass
it'll take just a few days to get to Odessa
and maybe not even that long
I'm assuming they won't want to leave any Ukrainian forces in the rear before they head to Odessa
but maybe they'll split their forces and reach odessa in < 48 hours
Belbeck has training camp for "Shock Battalion"
think Odessa maidan riot, but 100X bigger, and much better armed
they are the "ohh Russians are in danger," we have to go and rescue them", while shutting down critical infrastructure

sr russian officers not happy what they're being ordered to do
russian media says, how can WE be invading Ukraine?  Ukraine is ours to begin with, just like Crimea
media is preparing Russians
Russian economy is restructuring to live without foreign borrowing
Putin is betting on big rise in oil prices for some reason

I cannot go, my family comes first
starting to think like most Ukrainians anyway
that Ukraine is not worth dying for...
my wife who was the biggest Crimea lover/patriot I could imagine
doesn't want to go back any more because of what she saw
have mixed feelings about giving up the boys in the Russian military I gave iphones to so I can track them on GPS
I stole/copied a bunch of stuff from belbeck
it's not about "search and rescue"
probably best thing for me to do is burn it all
and forget about it all
so I don't feel even worse than I felt watching Maidan live on Skype

[JayH]

In looking for suitable versions  of Walzing Matilda to link here -- I found a few pieces that may interest people,

First-- in Grand Final day 1994  ( one of the biggest days in Australian sport) this performance of a few iconic Australian songs was pre game ( maybe half time?)  performed by the Seekers who rose to international fame about 30 years earlier !!

Walzing Matilda is  the 3rd song here  -- I like the first song -"I am Australian" which celebrates our cultural diversity




A much later hit song that hit a chord with many Australians and almost an anthem  -- after it was picked up in 1983  by  the Australia2  crew as theme music played loudly  at Newport Rhode Island when Australia ended a 150 year long domination of the "America's Cup" in sailing match racing.



The day Australia won is to this day one that many Australians see as an important day in our history.

Men At Work -- The Land Down Under

[JayH]

Another !!   AC/DC   ---   
I picked a   cd up in a  market in Ukraine  and was playing this in the car  -- my Ukrainan ex  needed me to explain !
She did not realise they were an Australian group.

[JayH]

And another bordering on an anthem --the living legend Jimmy Barnes !






The original band he rose to fame with Cold Chisel ---  "When The War Is Over"

[JayH]

Another version of the song K linked






And finally --   this is American --  but Australians have fought alongside Americans in every war ( the only nation to do so) and Australian dead are at most of these places too !   It is but a small reminder of our common fundamental beliefs of freedom and democracy -- something that should never be forgotten  is the sacrifices  made.

[krimster2]

you missed one of my favorite pieces of 'strine pop music
don't remember the name so long ago
but "Tie me kangaroo down sport"
sung by "whoever that guy was" and the Beatles together!!!
"e doesn't understand your lingo, ringo"!!!
sometime in mid-60s
on youtube somewhere