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Author Topic: 50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom  (Read 7031 times)

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Offline JayH

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50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom
« on: August 21, 2018, 04:40:35 AM »
The lessons of history are there for those that choose to see . Not so funnily --is how history has a habit of repeating itself.

It seems the Russians never learn from their stupidity !

For me --these events of history in the USSR had my attention from a young age. My father was present at the water polo at the Melbourne Olympics in 1956  when the Hungarians went after the Russians and the blood turned the pool red !
I heard the story many times as a child !
Later  -- my first real girlfriend was from Czechoslovakia  as her family fled from the oppression -- so I took a keen interest in the uprising there/

The anniversary  of that invasion by Russia is today.

Hopefully--Ukraine's revolution of dignity can shake the Russians out of Ukraine forever!!


50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom (and a Broken Spirit)


PRAGUE — Could Soviet-style communism be reconciled with the dignity and freedom of the individual?

In 1968, the question was put to the test when the leader of Czechoslovakia’s Communist Party, Alexander Dubcek, initiated a project of liberalization that he said would offer “socialism with a human face.”

What followed was a rebirth of political and cultural freedom long denied by party leaders loyal to Moscow.

The free press flourished, artists and writers spoke their minds, and Mr. Dubcek stunned Moscow by proclaiming that he wanted to create “a free, modern and profoundly humane society.”

A season when hope and optimism were in bloom, it became known as the Prague Spring.

But nearly as soon as the movement came to life, it was crushed under the treads of Soviet T-54 tanks.

On Aug. 21, 50 years ago, the Soviet-led invasion of Czechoslovakia killed the dreams of the reformers, broke the spirit of a nation and ushered in an era of oppression whose effects are still felt today.

Moscow succeeded in restoring the supremacy of the state, but the ultimate cost of victory was high.

Perhaps more than any other event during the Cold War, the invasion laid bare for the world to see the totalitarian nature of the Soviet regime.


http://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/20/world/europe/prague-spring-communism.html


Hungarian Revolution
1956


Hungarian Revolution, popular uprising in Hungary in 1956, following a speech by Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev in which he attacked the period of Joseph Stalin’s rule. Encouraged by the new freedom of debate and criticism, a rising tide of unrest and discontent in Hungary broke out into active fighting in October 1956. Rebels won the first phase of the revolution, and Imre Nagy became premier, agreeing to establish a multiparty system. On November 1, 1956, he declared Hungarian neutrality and appealed to the United Nations for support, but Western powers were reluctant to risk a global confrontation. On November 4 the Soviet Union invaded Hungary to stop the revolution, and Nagy was executed for treason in 1958. Nevertheless, Stalinist-type domination and exploitation did not return, and Hungary thereafter experienced a slow evolution toward some internal autonomy.


http://www.britannica.com/event/Hungarian-Revolution-1956


Blood in the water: Hungary's 1956 water polo gold


One of the hardest-fought contests in Olympic history was a water polo match between Hungary and the USSR in 1956 - a match which came to symbolise the Hungarian struggle against Soviet rule.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-14575260
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Boethius

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Re: 50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2018, 05:03:16 AM »
Quote
Hopefully--Ukraine's revolution of dignity can shake the Russians out of Ukraine forever!!

History suggests this won't happen.  I don't think Russia wants Ukraine, though some may want Kyiv, as it figures prominently in Russian fairy tales, is the city of the founders of Rus', etc.  Russia will have trouble with its regions within its own vast country, it doesn't need more land. 

I don't think Ukraine's revolution is one of dignity.  They have had two failed revolutions which did not shake the strength of the oligarchs, or lessen entrenched political corruption.  Governance is a mess.

I also think that the cultural ties between Central/Eastern Ukraine and Russia are so strong, Russians will always be tied to Ukraine, and vice versa.  That's not necessarily a bad thing, and it goes back centuries.

http://www.ciuspress.com/catalogue/culture-and-society/9/the-ukrainian-impact-on-russian-culture%2C-1750-1850
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Offline BdHvA

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Re: 50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2018, 07:08:45 AM »
History suggests this won't happen.  I don't think Russia wants Ukraine, though some may want Kyiv, as it figures prominently in Russian fairy tales, is the city of the founders of Rus', etc.  Russia will have trouble with its regions within its own vast country, it doesn't need more land. 

I don't think Ukraine's revolution is one of dignity.  They have had two failed revolutions which did not shake the strength of the oligarchs, or lessen entrenched political corruption.  Governance is a mess.

I also think that the cultural ties between Central/Eastern Ukraine and Russia are so strong, Russians will always be tied to Ukraine, and vice versa.  That's not necessarily a bad thing, and it goes back centuries.

http://www.ciuspress.com/catalogue/culture-and-society/9/the-ukrainian-impact-on-russian-culture%2C-1750-1850

Yes I suspect Ukraine will always be 'tied' to Russia but as an observation and I am seeing it like Jay as an outsider. Ukraine after two failed revolutions has a greater sense of nationhood than before. I am not saying this from any article but more from being in the country.

Will the people of Ukraine triumph over the ogliarchs that is hard to say, but I suspect time is on the side of the people. Russia has moved beyond fairy tales and and the lies of communism. The leaders in the Kremlin know this.
Experierence is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you. A. Huxley

Offline DaveNY

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Re: 50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2018, 07:45:20 AM »
I don't think Russia wants Ukraine,

Putin wants Ukraine or at least the parts of Ukraine that give Russia a land bridge to Crimea and the coastal parts of Ukraine that make a land bridge to Moldova and of course to Romania, NATO's doorstep.

The coastal parts of Ukraine would give Russia ready made ports on the Black Sea. They would also give Russia rights to any oil and mineral rights on the Black Sea. Why wouldn't Russia want Ukraine?

Offline rwd123

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Re: 50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2018, 12:57:07 AM »
Ukraine has dignity? It is a hollowed out country. I have Ukrainian friends and enjoy going there, but as a society it has essentially collapsed.

Politics are dominated by US-backed or Russian-backed interests. 2014 was a US-backed movement. The Donbass separatists are Russian-backed. Without US financial support the Ukrainian government would collapse and Russia would take over.

Russia wants Ukraine as a buffer from NATO. Much like it previously wanted Eastern Europe as a buffer. I don't believe territorial sovereignty is the major driver. There's also historical context because culturally the two are rather intertwined.

Offline JayH

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Re: 50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2018, 02:46:40 AM »
Ukraine has dignity? It is a hollowed out country. I have Ukrainian friends and enjoy going there, but as a society it has essentially collapsed.

Politics are dominated by US-backed or Russian-backed interests. 2014 was a US-backed movement. The Donbass separatists are Russian-backed. Without US financial support the Ukrainian government would collapse and Russia would take over.

Russia wants Ukraine as a buffer from NATO. Much like it previously wanted Eastern Europe as a buffer. I don't believe territorial sovereignty is the major driver. There's also historical context because culturally the two are rather intertwined.


Rubbish, rubbish and more rubbish

The  Donbas "separatists" are Russian military  ie  it is a Russian invasion that has disrupted  Ukraine
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

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Re: 50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2018, 03:07:03 AM »
Yes I suspect Ukraine will always be 'tied' to Russia but as an observation and I am seeing it like Jay as an outsider. Ukraine after two failed revolutions has a greater sense of nationhood than before. I am not saying this from any article but more from being in the country.

Will the people of Ukraine triumph over the ogliarchs that is hard to say, but I suspect time is on the side of the people.

Back in 2014  after the invasion of Crimea and of eastern Ukraine  I witnessed first hand the change of attitudes and the new awareness and hope in Ukrainians  for Ukraine.
At the same time --  on the forums and elsewhere -- I was continually told by those with exposure from a yesteryear my assessment was wrong etc etc etc  Add in the extensive disinformation and Russian propaganda designed to confuse the issues it is easy enough in retrospect to see how misguided many were.
That is what makes the shift in Ukrainian attitudes even more remarkable -- and praiseworthy.
I am not for one minute suggesting this is over -- it is far from over -- but there is significant progress being made. The ordinary people are hurting with  inflation. the shift to a user pays basis on utilities -- and out of touch pension and wages not in line with inflation.The plus is -- there are many signs and results of new foreign investment impacting and creating jobs.
None of that is to say that THE major issue of corruption is not an issue-it MUST be dealt with -- somehow.

Av makes the point that as an "outsider" sometimes you can see and learn things not obvious to those "in the system" -- I  can see that too.
A point I have made long ago-- Ukraine does not need to reinvent the wheel --many issues faced have solutions existing in other countries already.
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline rwd123

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Re: 50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2018, 03:23:27 AM »

Rubbish, rubbish and more rubbish

The  Donbas "separatists" are Russian military  ie  it is a Russian invasion that has disrupted  Ukraine
I think it is naive to ignore US interests in Ukraine.

http://michael-hudson.com/2014/09/losing-credibility-the-imfs-new-cold-war-loan-to-ukraine/

It is a proxy cold war and the Ukrainian people suffer for it.

Offline krimster2

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Re: 50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2018, 04:23:28 AM »
(snicker)
"the IMF approved a $17 billion loan program to Ukraine’s junta"


gozpedy, didn't EVERYONE get the memo!!!!
don't use Kremlin language, when you write pro-Kremlin articles

IMF loans are made to repay Ukraine's debt payments to private lenders like banks and hedge funds, I mean when it's not stolen of course
without this IMF money, Ukraine would have defaulted years ago on its foreign debt
and banks and hedge funds would be sad...
and bonuses smaller...
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 04:29:02 AM by krimster2 »
вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

Offline JayH

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Re: 50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2018, 04:28:10 AM »

don't use Kremlin language, when you write pro-Kremlin articles



Yeah -- how naive  ;D
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline krimster2

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Re: 50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2018, 09:27:57 AM »
“Back in 2014  after the invasion of Crimea and of eastern Ukraine  I witnessed first hand the change of attitudes and the new awareness and hope in Ukrainians  for Ukraine.”

Jay, I actually like you man, and I APPRECIATE your passion on the subject, and I KNOW you have a LOT of first hand knowledge, so please don’t go all “Waltzing Matilda” on what I’m about to say about this subject, and this is NOT a criticism of you personally, so don’t take it that way, you are probably a total Australian stud muffin, who’d make msmob look like “Mr Bean”, and you see who msmob hangs out with...

“change of attitudes and the new awareness and hope in Ukrainians”

this “so called change" was “EXACTLY the same in the Orange Revolution”
EXACTLY, and wouldn’t surprise me if it was exactly the same “change of attitudes and the new awareness” when the soviet union collapsed and Ukraine became independent

the great mass of people in Ukraine, have ALWAYS felt this way

and politicians have ALWAYS used this desire of change as a promise to be kept if elected
and it is immediately discarded while they loot whatever crumbs are left on the table

a revolution, means to go in a circle and return to the point you started from
Ukraine has had many “revolutions”, but it always returns to the same place

Ukraine is just as corrupt today as it always has been, and the upcoming spring election will be about corruption, just like the election before it, and the election before that one, and the one before that

If you’re in Ukraine, March is going to be a dangerous time, if you’re in Dnipro, and get cut-off from Kyiv or Odessa, you might have a problem...
I’d be prepared if I were you, food, dollars/euros
stay away from targets
вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

Offline GQBlues

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Re: 50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2018, 09:54:23 AM »
I think it is naive to ignore US interests in Ukraine.
...
It is a proxy cold war and the Ukrainian people suffer for it.

BIG *Oopppss* Wrong board. Been there, done that. LOL. Don't mind me skipping your link either. Don't want to disrupt the dream. (Poor ol' Mr. Dubcek. He's reduced to having his effort compared to the 2014 Ukrainian Maidan)!

Anyway rwd, 'round here these parts, the 2014 maidan was a fairy tale, mystical event in Ukraine. Or as Nuland described it..

Quote from: Victoria Nuland
...the streets were lined with grandmothers holding flowers in their hands...

It was a revolution of 'Hope and Change'! The type of story akin to the Knights and Dragons fantasy void of western influence and hegemony. Just like the celebration we lay witness on the streets of Benghazi. Even now, Europe is so celebrated, people of the regions are risking theirs lives to run into their arms to thank them for all their overwhelming effort and assistance to free them and give them the life and culture they oh-so richly deserve.

They just can't thank all of us enough. This was NEVER about that precious black gold and domination, no sireee, Bob! The US's involvement there, and everywhere else like Libya, are acts of kindness and empathy to humankind.

Hallelujah! I say...
Be resigned as I am watching these children enjoy their bedtime stories of promise, of innocence, of fairies and unicorn. There's joy for me watching kids play with square balls.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 10:01:23 AM by GQBlues »
~Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people~ Gator :P

Offline Boethius

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Re: 50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2018, 10:01:58 AM »
I think it is naive to ignore US interests in Ukraine.

http://michael-hudson.com/2014/09/losing-credibility-the-imfs-new-cold-war-loan-to-ukraine/

It is a proxy cold war and the Ukrainian people suffer for it.

First, re the link, the blog is incorrect about Ukraine ethnically cleansing regions.  There was never any desire to ethnically cleanse any region of Ukraine. 

I don't believe the US has a desire to use Ukraine in a proxy cold war with Russia.  If it did, it would have installed far more effective leaders.  I think Ukraine came into the West's orbit initially so that nuclear disarmament would occur, and so that more dangerous players, such as Iran, or terrorists, did not gain access to those nuclear materials.


GQ, no, Maidan 2014 wasn't mystical.  I predicted it would fail, because the institutional structures have not changed.  However, give credit where credit is due.  Thousands of ordinary Ukrainians protested because of corruption.  With some of the revelations in the Manafort charges, we see just how craven that power was.  At some point, if things don't change, protest won't be peaceful.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Offline GQBlues

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Re: 50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2018, 11:04:33 AM »
IMHO, comparing the 2014 maidan to Prague Spring is blasphemous. An insult to Alexander Dubcek and the Czech and Slovakian people. This displays a complete lack of understanding of what the Prague Spring was about.


Carry on...
~Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people~ Gator :P

Offline Boethius

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Re: 50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2018, 11:05:51 AM »
So please enlighten us.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Offline GQBlues

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Re: 50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2018, 11:15:54 AM »
LOL. For starters, Dubcek was not NOTHING like Oleh Tyahnybok and any of the ensuing 'leader' you'd like to present here.

The Czech/Slovaks didn't cannibalized and turned on each other in the aftermath.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 11:32:26 AM by GQBlues »
~Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people~ Gator :P

Offline Boethius

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Re: 50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2018, 11:25:21 AM »
Oleh Tyahnybok was a marginal player, at best, in Maidan, and held little power in the new government.

The Czechs and Slovaks had no opportunity to "cannibalize" each other, because the communist party (KSC) clamped down on all dissent.  Expressions of nationalism, or national aspiration, are not allowed in communist systems of government.  The Czechs and Slovaks also did not face foreign agents who fomented such discord.

Finally, the Czechs and Slovaks did divorce after the collapse of communism.


« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 11:31:45 AM by Boethius »
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Offline GQBlues

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Re: 50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2018, 11:30:03 AM »
Oleh Tyahnybok was a marginal player, at best, in Maidan, and held little power in the new government.

The Czechs and Slovaks had no opportunity to "cannibalize" each other, because the communist party clamped down on all dissent.  National expression is not allowed in communist systems of government.  They also didn't have foreign agents fomenting such discord.

http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mccain-meets-oleh-tyahnybok-in-ukraine-2013-12

Finally, the Czechs and Slovaks did divorce after the collapse of communism.

Like I said...comparing the two is a blasphemy...
~Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people~ Gator :P

Offline Boethius

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Re: 50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2018, 11:32:57 AM »
So what is the purpose of your link?  He had little to do with Maidan.


You haven't explained why it is blasphemy.  You do realize, the Prague Spring was not about changing the course of the country, don't you?
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Offline GQBlues

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Re: 50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2018, 11:46:00 AM »
So what is the purpose of your link?  He had little to do with Maidan.


You haven't explained why it is blasphemy.  You do realize, the Prague Spring was not about changing the course of the country, don't you?


 :P  Just because you deny it doesn't mean I haven't made the case you asked for.


The impetus of Prague Spring was Dubcek's attempt to grant additional rights to the CITIZENS OF CZECHOSLOVAKIA through decentralization and democratization. To give freedom to rights of expression, travel, and language/speech.


One of the first thing Ukraine tried to do was to ban Russian and other ethnic languages within its territory.


Go ahead and deny this, too.
~Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people~ Gator :P

Offline GQBlues

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Re: 50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2018, 11:59:16 AM »
Further-

There was/were no Czech or Slovak citizen that financed and composed a militant army for the sole purpose of murdering its own citizens.


Just IMHO.


Carry on...
~Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people~ Gator :P

Offline Boethius

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Re: 50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2018, 12:06:53 PM »
No, that wasn't what Prague Spring was really about.  No democratization.  That's a romantic Western concept.  The same thing occurred in the Ukrainian FSR in 1972, with the same result, though tanks weren't required.

Your post has no back up.  Tyahnybok has such "pull" in Ukraine that he garnered 1.16% of the vote in the presidential election, and his party won less than 5% of the vote in the 2014 elections, therefore, he does not even hold a seat in the Rada.  So yeah, he has had a huge influence in Ukraine. :rolleyes:

Ukraine did not ban Russian on its territory.  We've been through this before.  There is Russian media, Russian language schools, Russian is used predominantly in business.  Services are provided in Russian, even today, in Ukrainian government.  The only change was that Yanukovych had promised Russian would be given official state language status, meaning government documents would be printed in Russian, as they now are printed only in Ukrainian.  The government reversed this.  So whatever source you are reading on this issue is deeply flawed.  There are even Russian language schools in that hotbed of Ukrainian nationalism, L'viv.

Go to Ukraine sometime - Kyiv, Kharkiv, Odesa, Dnipropetrovsk even L'viv.  You will hear that "banned" Russian on the streets everywhere.  In Kyiv, if you speak Russian anywhere, you will be answered in Russian.  If  you speak Ukrainian you will be answered in Ukrainian.  The sky is falling for Russian speakers!  Poor Russians.  So oppressed in Ukraine.

The Ukrainian army is financed to defend the borders of Ukraine.  Borders which were breached by Russia.  Do you think the US would just stand by and allow, say, the Chinese army to invade the US, occupy all of Texas, and stand by while they implemented plans to take the rest of the country?
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 12:30:05 PM by Boethius »
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Offline Boethius

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Re: 50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2018, 12:22:27 PM »
I've posted this before.  Euromaidan press is Ukraine biased, but this article is accurate on the language law -

http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/05/25/ukrainian-vs-russian-the-ban-that-never-was/


Russian always had regional language status, that never changed.  Furthermore, Ukraine's constitution explicitly protects minority language rights.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 12:24:01 PM by Boethius »
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Offline GQBlues

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Re: 50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2018, 12:30:13 PM »
No, that wasn't what Prague Spring was really about.  No democratization.  That's a romantic Western concept.  The same thing occurred in the Ukrainian FSR in 1972, with the same result, though tanks weren't required.


 :o  LOL. Really now?!? And this is solely according to you, or the people of Czech/Slovakia?

Quote
On April 5th 1968, Dubček embarked on a programme of reform that included amendments to the constitution of Czechoslovakia that would have brought back a degree of political democracy and greater personal freedom.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/modern-world-history-1918-to-1980/the-cold-war/the-prague-spring-of-1968/

From a Slovakian perspective of THEIR history:

Quote
After the initial dogmatic and sectarian period, when the Stalinist ‘builders’ of communism dominated politics with the far-reaching economic, social and moral failures that entailed, the communist experiment in Czechoslovakia was given another chance in the late 1960s, when a movement for democratization and modernization emerged. The symbol and living legend of this movement, known as “socialism with a human face”,

http://www.mzv.sk/web/en/slovakia/slovaks-through-the-century/1968-dubceks-czechoslovak-prague-spring

 ;)

...Your post has no back up.  Tyahnybok has such "pull" in Ukraine that he garnered 1.16% of the vote in the presidential election, and his party won less than 5% of the vote in the 2014 elections, therefore, he does not even hold a seat in the Rada.  So yeah, he has had a huge influence in Ukraine. :rolleyes:

Ukraine did not ban Russian on its territory.  We've been through this before.  There is Russian media, Russian language schools, Russian is used predominantly in business.  Services are provided in Russian, even today, in Ukrainian government.  The only change was that Yanukovych had promised Russian would be given official language status, meaning government documents would be printed in Russian, as they now are printed only in Ukrainian.  The government reversed this.  So whatever source you are reading on this issue is deeply flawed.  There are even Russian language schools in that hotbed of Ukrainian nationalism, L'viv.

Go to Ukraine sometime - Kyiv, Kharkiv, Odesa, Dnipropetrovsk even L'viv.  You will hear that "banned" Russian on the streets everywhere.  In Kyiv, if you speak Russian anywhere, you will be answered in Russian.  If  you speak Ukrainian you will be answered in Ukrainian.  The sky is falling for Russian speakers!  Poor Russians.  So oppressed in Ukraine.

Quote from: Poroshenko June 28, 2014
I always said before and I repeat this again now, that, the Verkhovna rada’s decision to ban Russian as a regional language was a mistake. I stressed many times during my presidential campaign that this law would never get my approval,” he said. Poroshenko expressed hope that “never again in the history of Ukraine will the issue of language or culture endanger national unity”.

Yeppers, man.

The Ukrainian army is financed to defend the borders of Ukraine.  Borders which were breached by Russia.  Do you think the US would just stand by and allow, say, the Chinese army to invade the US, occupy all of Texas, and stand by while they implemented plans to take the rest of the country?

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/03/26/Ukraine-s-New-Problem-Oligarch-Private-Army

So how does any of this compares Dubcek's Prague Spring to a 'T' again?
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 12:58:08 PM by GQBlues »
~Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people~ Gator :P

Offline Boethius

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Re: 50 Years After Prague Spring, Lessons on Freedom
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2018, 12:38:06 PM »
LOL. Really now?!? And this is solely according to you, or the people of Czech/Slovakia?

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/modern-world-history-1918-to-1980/the-cold-war/the-prague-spring-of-1968/


According to experts who study comparative communism.  There are whole scholarly journals devoted to this study.  So your link isn't really of interest to me.  I'm interested in your thoughts on how it is different.

[quote[So how does any of this compares Dubcek's Prague Spring to a 'T' again?



I never posted it did.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

 

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