Good looks

[ML]

If an AM wants to restrict his FSU wife from speaking her language and restrict her from meeting other FSU people in the US then IMO there's something wrong with the AM.

Dave, I know that those who hold your views on this topic are always ready to throw this in   similar to 'playing the race card.'   That is a real cop-out.

You know full well that neither I nor GQ have ever tried to restrict our wives from  anything.

[DaveNY]

Dave, I know that those who hold your views on this topic are always ready to throw this in   similar to 'playing the race card.'   That is a real cop-out.

You know full well that neither I nor GQ have ever tried to restrict our wives from  anything.

ML, I'm not saying anything about anyone on RWD. When I post, unless I mention someone specific, I'm dealing with a larger audience not just of the RWD community. Not just the FSU community but the immigrant community in the US as a whole.

It is not unheard of for an AM with little or no understanding of his wife's language and culture to say she can't speak her language in his house. It's not even unusual for an AM to say who his immigrant wife can and can't associate with. There are numerous examples of this in the news over the past couple of decades in the immigrant community.

[GQBlues]

Dave, I know that those who hold your views on this topic are always ready to throw this in   similar to 'playing the race card.'   That is a real cop-out.

You know full well that neither I nor GQ have ever tried to restrict our wives from  anything.

Well, that’s actually not accurate in my case. I’m guilty. I did asked my wife to promise me that she never drinks and drive when she goes out with her friends. So I suppose that makes me a controlling bastard. 

With everything else, she has a life to live and being married to me just happens to be a part of it.

[DaveNY]

Well, that’s actually not accurate in my case. I’m guilty. I did asked my wife to promise me that she never drinks and drive when she goes out with her friends. So I suppose that makes me a controlling bastard. 

With everything else, she has a life to live and being married to me just happens to be a part of it.

If we're going to deal with those bad habits, I know more than a few RW who've told their husbands, American and Russian, if they smoke in the house they're dead. I'm told something like 70% of RM smoke. Far more than AM.

One guy I know married a Ukrainian woman and first thing she did when she came to the US was to ban him from smoking in the house he had bought and fully paid for long before he married her. Then when she was pregnant he wasn't allowed to smoke anywhere on the property or in any of their cars. After a few years of marriage he said he was so exhausted from arguing with her he gave up smoking. I think that's a universal female trait, keep nagging him until he does what you want.

[SteveInBoston]

My mom was Korean (dad was in the Army).  I grew up in Korea, near the Army base in Daegu (Camp Henry).  Mom spoke a little English, but not much.  When I turned 10 we moved to the states, to Leesville Louisiana.   

Initially my mom could not help me with school matters - attend teacher conferences, take me to sports leagues, school outings, etc.   This was an issue because she was the only one who drove - my dad had a traumatic experience that prevented him from driving. 

After 2 years she was more or less proficient.  She learned English mostly by watching TV, specifically soap operas:  General Hospital and Days of Our Lives.  She still had trouble reading and writing, but could get by.  She did the "normal" things, like attending teacher conferences, taking me to band practice, taking me to boy scout camps, etc.

Later on, after I grew up, the Internet rolled around and I set her up with a computer to read Korean news and articles, and to watch Korean soap operas.  Also, my parents moved to Tampa when my dad retired, which had a large Korean community.  Her English declined markedly after a few years.

I agree mostly with ML and GQ here.  The more a foreign person sticks with immersing in the local language, the faster they will adapt.  Sticking with a foreign community or Internet/TV/radio becomes a crutch. 

I understand it is nice and even necessary for someone to hear and read their own language now and again.   But there is fine line between "taking a break" and going with the path of least resistance and defaulting to their language most of the time, because, in this age, they can.

But I also believe the husband should learn the wife's language, at least a bit.  Especially if there are frequent visits back to her country or visits from her relatives.

Many residents in the US do exactly as you stated. They go through life in the US with little to no English language skills. Lots of illegals in the US who have limited English language skills. IMO that's wrong. They should learn English.

DaveNY, it is funny that you both contradict and support the idea of learning English in the same statement.  Heh.

[BillyB]

When a newbie comes to the forum and asks what he should improve on, I'd tell him improve at work, exercise and improve on his hygiene before learning another language. A woman is less likely to dump a guy if he's clean, healthy, and accomplished at work compared to if he didn't know her language. If a guy is fit and accomplished and needs a hobby, then study a language. When I was single, I was way to busy dating women to have any time learning a new language.

[GQBlues]

If we're going to deal with those bad habits, I know more than a few RW who've told their husbands, American and Russian, if they smoke in the house they're dead. I'm told something like 70% of RM smoke. Far more than AM.

One guy I know married a Ukrainian woman and first thing she did when she came to the US was to ban him from smoking in the house he had bought and fully paid for long before he married her. Then when she was pregnant he wasn't allowed to smoke anywhere on the property or in any of their cars. After a few years of marriage he said he was so exhausted from arguing with her he gave up smoking. I think that's a universal female trait, keep nagging him until he does what you want.

Seriously though...I asked my wife once but always knew I didn't really have to. She's fully aware of the danger of drinking and driving. I'm lucky in that regard. I've always given my wife full freedom to plot her life's course and would only support her along the way.

But yes, regarding 'smoking' - I used to smoke, as did my wife. When we got married, I made a vow to myself to stop to make sure I live longer for her/us. My wife soon learning on what I was going to do, followed suit. Neither of us had any cigarette since. I don't have any other vice, drugs, alcohol, etc...an occasional beer every other blue moon Tuesday, but even then only when we're home. I don't buckle to peer pressure. My wife likes wine. I usually drive when we go out so she gets to have a glass, sometimes two, during our meals. Last we were in Napa was probably the most I ever drank wine. The case of wine we had delivered home lasted over two years worth of holidays enjoyed with our guests and family.

One of the things my wife does on her own that I really like is she'd always call me, or send me a text, whenever she's leaving work or anywhere to let me know she's on her way.

I've always maintained life's creed that - 'what you get from asking is never worth keeping'.

[msmob]

Likewise, Moby's advice is misleading because he IS LIVING in the woman's country.  So learning that language is a good idea.

I am ? ... 'News' to me ..  We live in a nation where Greek, Turkish and English are spoken

Advice giving by those in special circumstances is very misleading for the masses.

quite..

Many of us contact FSU who do not speak good English and it is a BIG advantage over the 'competition'

Once such ladies are in a nation with English ( French German, Norwegian, - delete as appropriate ) some suggest  'immersion' and no access to their native tongue .... how crassly cruel is that ?

While we work - they can go to school and improve their English and do volunteer work ....

[jone]

Learning a language is not something you do, like taking a test for a certification.   Learning a language is an everyday thing and unless the language is practiced, with regularity, it is lost. 

Case in point:  I had Russian as a language course in college.  When I began going to Russia in the early 2000s I tried to resurrect my Russian language skills.  I realized that while I had the basics down, the slang and double meanings of words and phrases would never be mine again.    So, now, when I am in Russia, I depend on a vocabulary of about 1000 words and use them to get my thoughts across.  But I am lost in a sophisticated conversation.

Those who wish to progress past this language understanding that I have will have to be bombarded by Russian on a daily basis.  I don't think that is realistic in courting a woman.   Unless you have another reason for learning Russian, just knowing the basics and some vocabulary is sufficient for letting a woman that you care enough about your future that you are trying to communicate.

[msmob]

just knowing the basics and some vocabulary is sufficient for letting a woman that you care enough about your future that you are trying to communicate.

 

[DaveNY]

Seriously though...I asked my wife once but always knew I didn't really have to. She's fully aware of the danger of drinking and driving. I'm lucky in that regard. I've always given my wife full freedom to plot her life's course and would only support her along the way.

But yes, regarding 'smoking' - I used to smoke, as did my wife. When we got married, I made a vow to myself to stop to make sure I live longer for her/us. My wife soon learning on what I was going to do, followed suit. Neither of us had any cigarette since. I don't have any other vice, drugs, alcohol, etc...an occasional beer every other blue moon Tuesday, but even then only when we're home. I don't buckle to peer pressure. My wife likes wine. I usually drive when we go out so she gets to have a glass, sometimes two, during our meals. Last we were in Napa was probably the most I ever drank wine. The case of wine we had delivered home lasted over two years worth of holidays enjoyed with our guests and family.

One of the things my wife does on her own that I really like is she'd always call me, or send me a text, whenever she's leaving work or anywhere to let me know she's on her way.

I've always maintained life's creed that - 'what you get from asking is never worth keeping'.

From what I observed in Russia it seems about 70% of RM smoke and about 70% of RW don't smoke. My wife doesn't smoke and can't tolerate men who smoke. Of course with children, our house as always been non smoking. All our visitors know this and respect the rules. Even the smokers admit they wouldn't dare smoke in someone else's house without asking it's just good manners.

As for drinking I think the numbers might be even higher. I don't recall meeting any RM who didn't drink except for those who were trying to quit due to alcoholism. RW don't drink in quite as high numbers but then many have told me that don't drink while holding a glass of wine. Many RW don't seem to consider drinking wine the same as drinking hard liquor.

[msmob]

Probably a more accurate source:

http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/7/1/22

Amongst older FSU women - ( 45+) very few didn't smoke when younger in my experience.. it was considered 'cool' and 'sophisticated' to smoke western brands.

Most wised up - but can lapse - a bit like the wine isn't really drinking thing ..

[SteveInBoston]

I've noticed there seems to be a black and white approach to qualifying smoking/not smoking and drinking/not drinking.

Occasional smoking (a few cigarettes and day, let's say) is categorized as not smoking.   Only regular smoking is considered smoking.

Beer and wine is considered not drinking, hard liquor is considered drinking.

I've met women who don't like men who drink, but wonder why I am not drinking beer with my meal...

[Jumper]

If we're going to deal with those bad habits, I know more than a few RW who've told their husbands, American and Russian, if they smoke in the house they're dead. I'm told something like 70% of RM smoke. Far more than AM.

One guy I know married a Ukrainian woman and first thing she did when she came to the US was to ban him from smoking in the house he had bought and fully paid for long before he married her. Then when she was pregnant he wasn't allowed to smoke anywhere on the property or in any of their cars. After a few years of marriage he said he was so exhausted from arguing with her he gave up smoking. I think that's a universal female trait, keep nagging him until he does what you want.

I dont smoke.
It's a deal breaker for me as far as a relationship.
I told my *then* romantic interest that feeling at some point in our conversations before we met.
I did not know she smoked, but assumed she likely did at least occasionally as a great deal of Russians/Ukranians  do.
She quit before we met and has never smoked again.She dint tell me that tidbit initially,   only after we became a bit more serious before engagement.
Overall she was very glad she quit regardless.


As far as language,  she had a good conversational grasp of English when we met  and could get along well here.Some people did not understand her completely, but mostly over the accent and soft voice.

I know a bit of Russian but no matter how far I progressed ,she would always prefer English between us. She likes the language better as to her ear it sounds softer.
Certainly now after 8 years together in the usa, no way would she want to speak Russian as a household language between us,and would not have wanted to initially as she understood it would be a crutch and harm  her English  learning curve.

She does speak Russian to our daughter,  as we truly want her to grow up bilingual for several reasons,but of course her understanding her family in Ukraine is paramount of those reasons.
She is as fluent in both languages as any 4yo would be,but once starting school.we both realize her Russian will diminish and already has with preschool.
   Anyway I'm a proponent of men learning a bit of Russian, it's unlikely they will be fluent but they may he able to.understand their in laws a bit,and they will understand their wives better in many cases.
If that's not worth a bit of time, then priorities differ.
The obvious  caveat to that is to be sure the language of the country your residing in is the main focus ,  if not already fluent.

[Trenchcoat]

Beer and wine is considered not drinking, hard liquor is considered drinking.

That's interesting stuff Steve (Dave also). I didn't know about that aspect of FSW though thinking about it, it would make some stuff add up.

It's kind of funny as Spirt watered down with something like Cola or similar cam often be a lower alcohol level than wine. Take those cans of premixed Jack Daniels, Vodka or Rum mix with Cola, they tend to often be about 5% volume, far less than most wines. My guess is when I mix it myself or buy it in a pub the volume could be even lower than that. I'm not personally one fir drinking sports straight though.

[Trenchcoat]

I personally think OP here has been silly to not hit Ukraine for women big time before now though. I'm  sorry but to wait to 28 is just slack, he could have got plenty of action in Ukraine is decent AW were not ponying up. I would give my right arm to be a FSU man with citizenship in US or UK. It's a gift to be envious off. I think we all know FSW woukd be crawling over themselves to meet such a guy.

OP to them you will have both the allure of a WM and all that comes with that AND be an insider by being a Ukrainian. That will clear a lot of girls who are insincere since your knowledge of Russian & Ukrainian language and probably culture means there are easier fish for them to fry.

I think knowing the language will open up more women that don't speak English well. I think most of the women will be more comfortable with you speaking to them in their native language. For later on if the women comes to live in US you could switch, but then again it could help avoid her going off with a US guy

[DaveNY]

That's interesting stuff Steve (Dave also). I didn't know about that aspect of FSW though thinking about it, it would make some stuff add up.

It's kind of funny as Spirt watered down with something like Cola or similar cam often be a lower alcohol level than wine. Take those cans of premixed Jack Daniels, Vodka or Rum mix with Cola, they tend to often be about 5% volume, far less than most wines. My guess is when I mix it myself or buy it in a pub the volume could be even lower than that. I'm not personally one fir drinking sports straight though.

Trench what you're missing is that few if any FSUW knows the alcohol by volume (ABV) of wine (~15%), beer (~5%) or the hard stuff (~40%). Also many of the RW I know will only sip a glass of wine all night and not finish the glass. Even most of the RW who are wine drinkers won't have more than 2 glasses.

Whereas it's not uncommon for the RM to have 6 or 8 beers and maybe a few glasses of vodka, whiskey, etc over the course of an evening. Even accounting for their lower body weight in general most RW will consume less alcohol, usually much less alcohol than RM. This is a broad generalization there are exceptions of course.

[msmob]

Trench what you're missing is that few if any FSUW knows the alcohol by volume (ABV) of wine (~15%), beer (~5%) or the hard stuff (~40%).

Tosh - it's clearly written on bottles and most FSU W I know check this

Also many of the RW I know will only sip a glass of wine all night and not finish the glass. Even most of the RW who are wine drinkers won't have more than 2 glasses.

I recognise these women - but given the 'right circumstances' many of the - 'occasionally socially drinking' types proclaim that "I am Russian" and get fall down drunk.. 

[DaveNY]

Tosh - it's clearly written on bottles and most FSU W I know check this

It's also on the bottles in Europe and the US and yet it's unlikely most women and men could tell the ABV of the alcohol they're drinking. More importantly I doubt many could guess the ABV of their drink after the mixer and ice have been added.

I recognise these women - but given the 'right circumstances' many of the - 'occasionally socially drinking' types proclaim that "I am Russian" and get fall down drunk..

Strangely enough the experts disagree with you. Perhaps you should email the author and introduce yourself. I'm sure once you identify yourself and tell him where he's made his errors he'll be glad to make the changes you recommend. He's an MD and PhD but I'm sure you're far better educated and have more experience in the area?

Razvodovsky YE. yury_razvodovsky@mail.ru
http://sciforschenonline.org/journals/clinical-research/yury-evgeny-razvodovsky.php

http://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/alcohol-consumption-and-gender-gap-in-allcause-mortality-in-russia-2329-6488-1000271.php?aid=90601

[Trenchcoat]

I recognise these women - but given the 'right circumstances' many of the - 'occasionally socially drinking' types proclaim that "I am Russian" and get fall down drunk..

Is that right after you proclaim "I am Irish" and fall around as p*ssed as a lord, lol 

[msmob]

Is that right after you proclaim "I am Irish" and fall around as p*ssed as a lord, lol 

Only in the VERY best of company ...

[Boethius]

Strangely enough the experts disagree with you. Perhaps you should email the author and introduce yourself. I'm sure once you identify yourself and tell him where he's made his errors he'll be glad to make the changes you recommend. He's an MD and PhD but I'm sure you're far better educated and have more experience in the area?

Razvodovsky YE. yury_razvodovsky@mail.ru
http://sciforschenonline.org/journals/clinical-research/yury-evgeny-razvodovsky.php

http://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/alcohol-consumption-and-gender-gap-in-allcause-mortality-in-russia-2329-6488-1000271.php?aid=90601

I think you missed the point. Moby is not saying as many RW drink as do RM. I read it as they will use their Russian heritage as an excuse to “let loose” when they wish. This is generational as well. I remember Oksana Baiul using this excuse when she was arrested for drunk driving. It was part of her denial of her alcoholism.

Mixed drinks almost always have more alcohol than wine or beer.

http://www.thespruceeats.com/determining-cocktail-alcohol-proof-760307

[Donna_Pedro]

Dave, I know that those who hold your views on this topic are always ready to throw this in   similar to 'playing the race card.'   That is a real cop-out.

You know full well that neither I nor GQ have ever tried to restrict our wives from  anything.

or else...