KenC's road to happiness..

[Photo Guy]

KenC's game plan:

KenC wrote:

...Almost 8 years ago, I acted impulsively.  I picked up the phone and called a girl waaay too young and waay too beautiful for me.  Then I illogically got on a plane and went to meet her in person.  God knows I did none of the proper due diligence that should have been required...

I realize the above is way too short and concise, but I post it as the starting point for
debate about 'what can work' for a newbie, and what to do and what not to do.
Ken, what did you do right in the beginning stages? ..and wrong?

If you are happily married now (the perfect result), then can we conclude that you
did absolutely NOTHING wrong, to find this wonderful wife?

If a newbie walks in your footsteps, will he achieve the same level of success?
Are there too many variables, to make sweeping generalizations about procedures?  -doug

[beattledog]

only time, destiny, and the Lord knows if you to are meant for one another

beattledog

[catzenmouse]

Something I saw on another board was called the 10-10-80 factor (or something like that)

10% Do everything right and end up in a disaster.

10% Do everything wrong and end up in a wonderful marriage.

80% Are the rest who do some right and some wrong and end up in either of these situations or with nothing to show for all the effort they have put forth.

I was pretty close to the second 10% in that (now looking back on my search) I did way too many stupid things and overall feel that I was a blind man walking through a mine field who ended up falling on the pot of gold. I, and others also, know that you can spin the wheel and win the jackpot/buy one lottery ticket in your life and win the multi-million dollar prize BUT that is pure fluke and is no way to go about planning for a future with a foreign bride. Part of why I lean more towards the tried and true methods advocated here is that I can now see how close I came to ending up like Gary in Maxx's thread or like the guys who jump through hoops only to have her back off because she still had other pokers in the fire or realizes that you were not the one to give her all her dreams or what ever she had her sights set on.

Ken

[Gator]

Doug,
You seem to be going through a period of introspection.  It is good for the soul.  Wishing you the best and clear thinking.

KenC is a very logical thinker, and I am sure he will have some valuable observations to make.  KenC's and his wife's successful marriage is an anomaly considering their age difference.  Would it not be just as valuable to open your question to all happily married men?  

Your thread, pardon me.

[Wild Orchid*]

Can I ask you what is a happy marriage? If people stay together for 7 years or more than it makes the marriage a happy one? Is that so? 

[Turboguy]

Good point Wild Orchid.  I stayed with my wife for 18 years and was miserable every day of it.

[PeeWee]

Something I saw on another board was called the 10-10-80 factor (or something like that)

10% Do everything right and end up in a disaster.

10% Do everything wrong and end up in a wonderful marriage.

80% Are the rest who do some right and some wrong and end up in either of these situations or with nothing to show for all the effort they have put forth.

I was pretty close to the second 10% in that (now looking back on my search) I did way too many stupid things and overall feel that I was a blind man walking through a mine field who ended up falling on the pot of gold. I, and others also, know that you can spin the wheel and win the jackpot/buy one lottery ticket in your life and win the multi-million dollar prize BUT that is pure fluke and is no way to go about planning for a future with a foreign bride. Part of why I lean more towards the tried and true methods advocated here is that I can now see how close I came to ending up like Gary in Maxx's thread or like the guys who jump through hoops only to have her back off because she still had other pokers in the fire or realizes that you were not the one to give her all her dreams or what ever she had her sights set on.

Ken

LOL!! Hmmmm...I think what you have just suggested, Catman, is that anyone, regardless of what they do, has a 50/50 chance of make or break. I like those odds.

Peewee

[catzenmouse]

Not Quite Peewee. What I am saying is that even someone as stupid as I am can fall in a pile of $hit and come out smelling like roses sometimes. It is not a normal situation nor is it in any way/shape/or form how I would go about it if I was looking now. The old saying about "Even a blind mouse will find a piece of cheese occassionally" comes to mind or maybe more appropriately would be the 1000 monkeys in a room banging away on typewriters will eventually write a novel.

Ever seen the movie "The Terminal" with Tom Hanks? Your 50% reminds me of the 50/50 chance he talks about. Good movie by the way.

Ken

[PeeWee]

Can I ask you what is a happy marriage? If people stay together for 7 years or more than it makes the marriage a happy one? Is that so? 

I think that you are on to something here, WO. No one, save a man and his wife, know if their marriage is either happy and/or successful. We all might know the answer to that question many years from now. For now they are married, to what degree of success or level of happiness, nobody knows. To measure the success of a marriage simply by time in camp is no where near an accurate measure. All it means is that the two have been able to tolerate one another, to whatever degree they have, for a measured length of time. If they have been in love during that time that is the success of it.

Peewee

[PeeWee]

Not Quite Peewee. What I am saying is that even someone as stupid as I am can fall in a pile of $hit and come out smelling like roses sometimes. It is not a normal situation nor is it in any way/shape/or form how I would go about it if I was looking now. The old saying about "Even a blind mouse will find a piece of cheese occassionally" comes to mind or maybe more appropriately would be the 1000 monkeys in a room banging away on typewriters will eventually write a novel.

Ever seen the movie "The Terminal" with Tom Hanks? Your 50% reminds me of the 50/50 chance he talks about. Good movie by the way.

Ken

First of all, buster, let me clear the air right hear and now....you are a frickin' smart guy...at least the way I see it. No more talk of stupid. LOL!!!

"The Terminal", based on a true story, as I understand it, was a very good movie. If I could find a Catherine Zeta-Jones-Douglas-Jacob-Jingleheimer-Smith then I would think that would be alright too.

In the words of the immortal Chan, "Accidents can happen, if planned that way."

Peewee

[KenC]

KenC's game plan:

KenC wrote:

...Almost 8 years ago, I acted impulsively.  I picked up the phone and called a girl waaay too young and waay too beautiful for me.  Then I illogically got on a plane and went to meet her in person.  God knows I did none of the proper due diligence that should have been required...

I realize the above is way too short and concise, but I post it as the starting point for
debate about 'what can work' for a newbie, and what to do and what not to do.
Ken, what did you do right in the beginning stages? ..and wrong?

If you are happily married now (the perfect result), then can we conclude that you
did absolutely NOTHING wrong, to find this wonderful wife?

If a newbie walks in your footsteps, will he achieve the same level of success?
Are there too many variables, to make sweeping generalizations about procedures?  -doug

Doug,
I have often said that I would never recommend the path I choose to another.  I usually said that in reference to the large age difference that Lena and I have, but it does apply to some other actions I took along the way.  From the snipit you quoted, I don't think acting "impulsively" to make a phone call is all that damning nor are the repercussions from such an action potentially damaging.  What's the worst that can happen?  She hangs up?   

Now for jumping on a plane without proper preparations could have been disastrous.  My mistake was putting all my faith in an agency.  Fortunately, they came through for the most part.  There were some anxious moments at the airport in Moscow, when the agency ride had not yet showed up and I was negotiating with the shark like cabby's for a ride to Tver.  It was at that exact moment that I realized that I should have done my homework a little bit better and not relied so much on the agency.  But they did show up and all went well.

But I will give you more too.  I just recently posted this on another forum:
As a way of explaining what happened between Lena and I, I will say that she was by far the youngest RW I had contact with. Every other woman that I considered was significantly older than her. I had passed over her profile and even her video clip many times because of her age. I never considered her as a potential woman for me, but I did contact her when the agency listed 6 women that you could call direct and speak with. Keep in mind that this was 1998 and all the video conferencing and such were not readily available. Also consider the fact that I didn't have all the wonderful information available on forums like this one. I wanted to know more about real RW, so I impulsively made a phone call. We enjoyed our phone calls very much and became friends. I never seriously considered Lena as a potential girlfriend or wife because of the age difference, but we did become very close through our phone calls.

Our relationship got to a point where I just had to meet the person I was spending so much time speaking with over the phone. Realistically, I gave us a 5% chance of hitting it off in person. So little in fact, my plan "B" was to meet other women from the agency, significantly older than Lena. The moment we met face to face, we were both "thunderstruck" by each other. That 5% kind of went out the window at that instant. If you can consider it "love at first sight" after months of phone conversations, then that is what it was. Lena has since told me that she knew I "was her man" the moment I walked through the door. Still I resisted because of her age. I did follow through with meeting the other women. They were nice and beautiful and more age appropriate, but there also was no sparks per say. To be honest, I stopped meeting the other ladies half way through my list because I didn't think it was fair to them. They would put forth great effort to make an impression on me, and all I was doing is comparing them to Lena. I finally gave in somewhat to the obvious chemistry Lena and I shared.

As our relationship grew more intimate, I was still afraid of the age gap. I don't think I would have ever applied for a K-1 visa for her. But what I did was arrange for a student visa for her to come to me in America. I never promised to marry her as I didn't want to disappoint her if things didn't go well. Needless to say, things went very well and we will be celebrating our 7th anniversary Monday. What finally made me take the leap was the fact that I couldn't ever live with myself if I didn't at least try. I would have been just fine with a much older woman, a much less beautiful one too, but I would never trade what the two of us have for all the tea in China. In the 7+ years with Lena I have never questioned her love for me or her loyalty to our relationship. I only wish that everyone could find what we have. To think that I could have missed out on the love of my life because she was too young, is a very scary thought.

Marrying a woman so much is an obvious huge risk, but I did take my time beforehand before making the commitment.  I never said I did everything perfectly, but there were some things that I did very well.  I only wish everyone could do as well.  OK, have at it!
KenC

[Wild Orchid*]

I think that you are on to something here, WO. No one, save a man and his wife, know if their marriage is either happy and/or successful. We all might know the answer to that question many years from now. For now they are married, to what degree of success or level of happiness, nobody knows.

Exactly. Especially if we hear only one side of the story.  But to read from board to board that KenC is in a happy marriage cos it lasted 7 years …just not cutting it for me. I don’t know Ken, I don’t know his wife. He is just a forum personage to me. If I’m talking about him as a such not real person, I might say there could be a million reasons why women would stay in the marriage, which might be unhappy for her, or him, or both of them.  

[catzenmouse]

I think that you are on to something here, WO. No one, save a man and his wife, know if their marriage is either happy and/or successful. We all might know the answer to that question many years from now. For now they are married, to what degree of success or level of happiness, nobody knows. To measure the success of a marriage simply by time in camp is no where near an accurate measure. All it means is that the two have been able to tolerate one another, to whatever degree they have, for a measured length of time. If they have been in love during that time that is the success of it.

Peewee

That is one of the best descriptions I've seen of a successful marriage Peewee.

When I saw WO's post I thought about my marriage. We were together for 10 years and looking back at it now I see that we had a few good years, a few difficult years with good times mixed in, and a few bad to very ugly years at the end. Was it a successful marriage? For awhile yes it was, on the whole not very as we were too young and too different in our life goals in the end.

[catzenmouse]

I did follow through with meeting the other women. They were nice and beautiful and more age appropriate, but there also was no sparks per say. To be honest, I stopped meeting the other ladies half way through my list because I didn't think it was fair to them. They would put forth great effort to make an impression on me, and all I was doing is comparing them to Lena. I finally gave in somewhat to the obvious chemistry Lena and I shared.

This is quite similar to how it worked with Elena and I. (Something about those Lena'a I guess!  )

Needless to say, things went very well and we will be celebrating our 7th anniversary Monday.[/b]

KenC,

 The biggest, broadest, most all encompassing Congratulations on your happiness and success! I look forward to hearing about your next 7+ years!

Ken

[KenC]

Can I ask you what is a happy marriage? If people stay together for 7 years or more than it makes the marriage a happy one? Is that so? 

Wild Orchid,
No, spending seven years together is not necessarily proof of a happy marriage.  Happiness is a relative term, so let me put it this way:  I wouldn't trade one second of my time as Lena's husband for the 20 years I spent married to my first wife.  And things were not so terribly bad for most of those 20 years and we raised two great adult children as a result of that marriage.  So was that marriage a failure?  I think not.  But it did end in divorce.
KenC

[Wild Orchid*]

As a way of explaining what happened between Lena and I, I will say that she was by far the youngest RW I had contact with. Every other woman that I considered was significantly older than her. I had passed over her profile and even her video clip many times because of her age. I never considered her as a potential woman for me, but I did contact her when the agency listed 6 women that you could call direct and speak with. Keep in mind that this was 1998 and all the video conferencing and such were not readily available. Also consider the fact that I didn't have all the wonderful information available on forums like this one. I wanted to know more about real RW, so I impulsively made a phone call. We enjoyed our phone calls very much and became friends. I never seriously considered Lena as a potential girlfriend or wife because of the age difference, but we did become very close through our phone calls.

Almost word to word with DonaZ story. Did you rehears much? Just kidding...
 I’m glad that you are happy, I want to believe that you are even it is not easy for me, but the way you are looking for excuses for yourself just proves once again…

[Wild Orchid*]

Wild Orchid,
No, spending seven years together is not necessarily proof of a happy marriage.  

Why is it  then a point in so many of your arguments?

[KenC]

Almost word to word with DonaZ story. Did you rehears much? Just kidding...
 I’m glad that you are happy, I want to believe that you are even it is not easy for me, but the way you are looking for excuses for yourself just proves once again…

Maybe you better recheck the Donaz post you're referencing, because it might be mine on the other board.

 

Wild Orchid,
No, spending seven years together is not necessarily proof of a happy marriage. 
Why is it  then a point in so many of your arguments?

Because it does somewhat validate that I did/ am doing something good enough to endure 7 years.  Ans I do know how happy we are.
KenC

[Maxx2]

Aren't there women who keep their dark side hidden for years? Then one day you discover a person you never knew? How did Ken determine she was not one of those? "Spending allot of time together" doesn't answer the question of what qualities she had that made her a good wife. What did he see? Also "Allot of dating experience" doesn't answer the specific question of what does one need look for to spot trouble or to find the Pearl*?  I agree totally with Ken at keeping this non commital until well after a good period of time lapses. I can say a wrong turn such as I took will cost far more time than the time Ken took being certain.

* my guess a good, stable and loving family being near the top of things to look for.

Maxx

[PeeWee]

That is one of the best descriptions I've seen of a successful marriage Peewee.

When I saw WO's post I thought about my marriage. We were together for 10 years and looking back at it now I see that we had a few good years, a few difficult years with good times mixed in, and a few bad to very ugly years at the end. Was it a successful marriage? For awhile yes it was, on the whole not very as we were too young and too different in our life goals in the end.

I have often likened a marriage to a year's worth of weather. Sunny days turn to overcast with threats of rain, sleet, hail, high winds, snow, and back to warm sun again...all at the mood of the day. The only sure thing is that during that year in time is that the sun will both set and then raise each and every day without fail. Years turn to decades and when one, or two, if both survived it, look back over the years then, yes, they can claim, "...but 'we' survived it."

"A success can be measued in a day or in a lifetime and a failure is but a necessary event by which we built our successes on." Anonymous.    

Peewee

[Jet]

What finally made me take the leap was the fact that I couldn't ever live with myself if I didn't at least try.

In this sentiment, I do believe you and Photo are far closer together than either of you is willing to admit 

There are fundimental differences though, in the way each of you approached your individal situations.


I do have to chuckle to myself now and then... to think I was so incredibly concerned about the 10 year gap between Lil and I, at the time we met

[PeeWee]

In this sentiment, I do believe you and Photo are far closer together than either of you is willing to admit 

There are fundimental differences though, in the way each of you approached your individal situations.


I do have to chuckle to myself now and then... to think I was so incredibly concerned about the 10 year gap between Lil and I, at the time we met

She's ten years your senior?

Peewee

[Maxx2]

I always get beat up when I suggest that luck played a role in you old married guys success. Wasn't Jet that said he did everything wrong yet it worked out somehow. Catz admits to the same. Luck BTW can be something like finding a message board that gives one a heads up to the red flags and potential risks. Or stumbling across an agency that gives good advice (You got to be REALLY lucky to find this in the FSU) and guidance and not leading you down the primrose path. I guess I search for a sliver of humility and understanding of the less fortunate and ..... unlucky.

Maxx

[KenC]

Aren't there women who keep their dark side hidden for years? Then one day you discover a person you never knew?

I disagree with your premise here.  I think that someone can only play a charade for about 6 months and then the real person has to come out.  I come to this conclusion because of my dating experience with AW.  And it almost happened like clockwork too.  Now, I do think people are in a constant state of evolution too though.  There can be significant changes over a long period of time.  My first wife and I were not the same people we were when we first married when we divorced some 20 years later for example.

How did Ken determine she was not one of those? "Spending allot of time together" doesn't answer the question of what qualities she had that made her a good wife. What did he see? Also "Allot of dating experience" doesn't answer the specific question of what does one need look for to spot trouble or to find the Pearl*?

Again, I have to disagree with you Maxx.  I personally think that dating experience is very important when meeting any women.  If you are experienced you will not be subject to as much manipulation or at least you will be able to spot it sooner.  Knowing your way around women has to be helpful, don't ya think?  The inexperienced men will be shark bait for RW for sure.
 

I agree totally with Ken at keeping this non commital until well after a good period of time lapses. I can say a wrong turn such as I took will cost far more time than the time Ken took being certain.

Thank you Maxx for making my point that I have been preaching forever.  Guys rush into things to save time and money but the end result is just the opposite.

* my guess a good, stable and loving family being near the top of things to look for.

Maxx

The woman's family tells you a lot about her.  How she treats people she loves cannot be anything but a plus.  I met Lena's Mom on my first trip and it was kind of a goal to me.  I just could never consider that Lena was serious about me if she didn't introduce me to her parents.
KenC

[KenC]

I always get beat up when I suggest that luck played a role in you old married guys success. Wasn't Jet that said he did everything wrong yet it worked out somehow. Catz admits to the same. Luck BTW can be something like finding a message board that gives one a heads up to the red flags and potential risks. Or stumbling across an agency that gives good advice (You got to be REALLY lucky to find this in the FSU) and guidance and not leading you down the primrose path. I guess I search for a sliver of humility and understanding of the less fortunate and ..... unlucky.

Maxx

Maxx,
You and I have gone around and around on the subject of luck.  I think you make your own luck.  I was very lucky to find Lena, but I was smart enough and confident enough to approach her too.  Here's a factoid for all you guys: As I said above LTP posted 6 girls on their site with phone numbers so anyone in the world could call them directly and speak with them.  The phone rang in their flats.  Now I know I am a bit prejudiced, but Lena is a very attractive woman.  The photo that LTP posted of her, took my breath away.  I said "WTF" and dialed her up!!  Now here is the interesting part.  You would think that Lena's phone would be ringing off the hook.  No so.  ONE OTHER GUY CALLED HER ONE TIME!!!!!  I think it was Henry Ford who said "Luck is when preparation meets opportunity."  I was prepared, had a golden opportunity and took advantage of it.  Some would call it "luck."
KenC