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Author Topic: Why western dating sites don't work.  (Read 2606 times)

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Online Trenchcoat

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Why western dating sites don't work.
« on: January 02, 2020, 08:49:32 PM »
So the 2020's begun for me by googling about dating online in the west. Some interesting articles cropped up and I found the reason why it's so more difficult for men in the west. I know this has been brought up before and members like Boethius turned it on me etc. It turns out though that there really is strong forces working against men in the west dating.

Chiefly as this article and a few others I found is that there are a lot of married men getting in on the act:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/2015/may/07/dating-app-tinder-married-relationship

It looks like a lot of married guys get online dating most likely to get some sex on the quiet. It stands to reason that it is very appealing for married men, a lot of it can be done on the quiet and they likely stand a high chance of getting sex out of it. If the guy is already married chances are that he is already validated that he is appealing to women. If he is in or towards the 8-10 looks range, knows what to say etc and so knows he can land many decent looking women why restrict himself if he can get it in the quiet. It's very tempting for those guys no doubt but it screws it up badly for us serious genuinely single guys.

The second big thing I found is that a lot more men do online dating than women. Some of the women got fed up with being used for sex by married guys some seem to avoid it altogether to avoid becoming used for sex by some married guys. The other problems seem to pile on ontop of this, women that don't feel they will meet the guy they desire as so many of the guys fall short of the mark or some women that may not be up to dating themselves so have chosen not to and focus on their careers or whatever.

At the end of the day this means that way more men are using online dating sites and apps than woman. This moves it from the 1 man to 1 woman statistic in society at large to some sites such as Tinder possibly being around 9 men to 1 woman. One article cited that an average guy would have to bang out 114 messages to get just 1 reply on average. While a third on sites like Match wouldn't get any dates at all out of it.

I think you can safely say that western dating sites for most men are a waste of time. International dating sites are better but likely will still have a fair amount of married guys at it which we hear about from FSW from time to time. It appears that married men are messing the whole thing up to get more than their fair share.

Anyway, I for one will be pushing on with this endeavour as I believe as I did before that International Dating offers me a better chance than western dating that I have found a complete non starter as has many other men.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 01:17:20 AM by Trenchcoat »
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Re: Why western dating sites don't work.
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2020, 09:09:53 PM »
At the end of the day this means that way more men are using online dating sites and apps then men.


Way more men use dating sites and apps than men? Was that discovered in a scientific study?

I think you can safely say that western dating sites for most men are a waste of time.


There's a lot of ghost profiles in Western dating sites. Writing to them is a waste of time. Western dating sites play games with male customers as much as Eastern dating sites do. What man wants to pay to use a site where men outnumber women 10-1?
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Offline IvanM07

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Re: Why western dating sites don't work.
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2020, 12:42:40 AM »
Look trench. I've always been in your corner but even now this is killing me. How many times have you been beyond the UK?

Offline Davo

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Re: Why western dating sites don't work.
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2020, 02:03:14 AM »
Trench Iím an average guy who faces bigger obstacles than you with so many children, but after getting my head around setting up attractive profiles and opening messages, I did ok compared with some of my other single mates who had a similar attitude to you and it still holds them back.

At the start I was sending 100 messages and getting no replies,  but eventually I sent 30-50 messages and got 5 replies and a couple of dates. Eventually that turned into several short term relationships.

On paper you should be smashing local dating. You have no children, no mortgage and no crazy ex wife to deal with ..... Youíre an ideal catch for a recently divorced or single woman between 35 & 40.

Iíve said this before, look at dating like sport. There are guys who are naturally gifted and can compete in professional competitions with little effort.

Other guys have to work hard and with focus and dedication can be as good as a naturally gifted man.

Then there are guys who have no idea how to do the basics like catch a ball and they eventually step up with some hard work, or realise their limitations and give it away, or worse blame the ball before looking at their lack of ability.

Dating for the 2nd and 3rd group takes a huge amount of effort to be successful. Almost 5 years ago I was in the 2nd group. I basically hadnít been on a date for 25 years and missed all the usual experiences men gain when dating many women in their early 20ís.

It took me a multi pronged approach and a huge learning curve right up to the point of dabbling in FSU dating.

First I improved my physical appearance. While I was doing that I spent hours reading about dating and relationships everyday, but theory is no substitute for real life experience and I was very lucky to have met a wonderful women when I first started to socialise again. It was nothing to do with my abilities she come onto me and I was virtually oblivious,  but a 6 month relationship with her gave me a lot of confidence and thatís what matters the most in dating.... absolute confidence, but not  arrogant confidence.

When we called it quits, I tried my hand at online dating and although it took a while to be successful I managed to have several short term relationships as I mentioned above.

Itís a bit cringey, but Iíd read some articles and watched videos by dating coaches (PU artists) when I was first divorced and even read ďThe gameĒ.... check it out online, itís a good read just for the story if nothing else.

After my online dating stint, I fell in with a group of self proclaimed PU artists and hit pubs and clubs (which I hate) and be honest things started falling into place. Not for all the set routines, Neg theory and all the psychological tricks, again it all come back to confidence..... If you approach countless women and can handle rejection without knocking your confidence, eventually like a naturally gifted sports man you are confident even before you open your mouth and talk to a woman and you come across in an attractive way..... BTW pubs and clubs arenít the best place to meet the best women. Meeting and approaching them during your daily routine is a much better way IMO.

Next I tried speed dating and we have chatted about this before. For you Trench speed dating is a success if you can keep an interesting conversation going with every woman at an event and make a few laugh. Speed dating should be the first step for serially single guys and those who have recently become single after long relationships. What sounds more productive....sitting online for months to get a date if youíre  lucky or honing your skills in real life with a captive audience of real women?

During my local dating experience I expanded my circle of friends, especially with women. Now I donít have to look for local dates at all, my female friends set me up on blind dates and more often than not they are quite attractive and genuinely nice women. Having female friends who vouch for you is better than having 100 wing men by your side. Itís even helped me with FSU women.

You canít complain about local dating when all your doing is reading 2nd hand accounts. Get out and experience it for yourself. I would have argued that local dating was shit when I was in your position 5 years ago when I first started online, but now itís easy and it took effort to get to this place in my life. Forgot these articles because for all the men who agree with them there are an equal amount who donít..... at the end of the day someone is dating all these local women, why isnít it you?

Referring back to the sporting analogy ...... FSU dating is like participating in an international sporting event and unless you are a guy whoís like ML who didnít play sport at home, but had some solid skills, you will probably continue to fail.

I know you arenít willing to try to improve your skills at home and want to chase that international sporting career, but at least gain some skills competing in your own age group. You canít compete with most men your age as they have been playing the sport for years, lived with a coach most of their adult lives and can afford the latest equipment to participate in higher leagues with younger competitors...... In other words, instead of sitting in a park hoping a young, attractive single women with no children notices you, you will learn a lot more by spending time with or even shacking with a genuine 40+ woman who is more likely to give you a chance than younger women and maybe this experience will prepare you for league you want to play in. 3 weeks living with a FSU women is the same as being in a new relationship at home for 3 months.

Donít take any of this as bragging. I caught a lot of lucky breaks that looking back now helped me a lot in this journey, a journey that started with the realisation that I was un-datable if I didnít make some big changes. Not picking on you, but un-dateable is the tag lots of members have given you.... can you accept this and make the changes necessary to prove them wrong?
« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 07:34:36 AM by Davo »

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Re: Why western dating sites don't work.
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2020, 06:34:39 AM »
Trench,

until you ( finally) realise YOU .. your attitude  towards ladies.. is flawed ... ( that's being kind)  you are wasting your time .. in the UK, UA, RU , BY ...period

We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

Offline treddie

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Re: Why western dating sites don't work.
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2020, 02:33:03 AM »
Quote
The Online Dating Gender Ratio is 52.4% Male vs. 47.6% Female
source: http://www.datingadvice.com/online-dating/online-dating-statistics

I don't think the "married men" factor is really significant and I haven't seen data that makes me think otherwise. The article you posted is from 2015 and seemed to indicate that dating apps were much more active than Tinder. It doesn't seem representative of "Western dating sites".

And then the second part - that there are more men than women on dating sites - also seems questionable. Have you looked at a lot of recent data to support that idea? The article I found indicates a fairly close ratio but it varies, depending on region and site.

There are negatives to "Western" dating sites (and online dating in general) and it doesn't work for everyone. But I don't think your two reasons are accurate and it certainly works for some people. If you want to consider one of the negatives, I suggest reading this article:

http://www.rolereboot.org/sex-and-relationships/details/2013-02-online-dating-sucks-for-men-because-of-women-like-me

Offline civi68

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Re: Why western dating sites don't work.
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2020, 06:30:20 AM »
One time while on Plenty of Fish, I added up how many men's and women's profiles logged on that day in a 50 mile radius in my area of Altoona PA. It was 3 men for every woman. Usually, I am only attracted to about 2 out of 10 women's profiles. Okcupid put out an article a while back when they did some research on their site. Their research showed that only 20% of men and women received a lot of messages with the remaining 80% receiving very few. The 80% usually chose to contact the 20% with most of the time not receiving a reply from the 20%. The research recommended that users consider the more average looking profiles if they wanted to get anywhere.
   So, internet dating is mostly about everyone contacting the more attractive people. As everyone knows, attractive women (and men as well) are in demand so it can be difficult for many to find them and keep them. My experience in my own dating life and with seeing other people's social life over the years that the research above mirrors a lot of people's experiences if they want an attractive partner. Most average people may get some opportunities for more attractive people but it is rare that a 5 or 6 keeps a 7-10.
   

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Re: Why western dating sites don't work.
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2020, 07:55:28 AM »
One time while on Plenty of Fish, I added up how many men's and women's profiles logged on that day in a 50 mile radius in my area of Altoona PA. It was 3 men for every woman. Usually, I am only attracted to about 2 out of 10 women's profiles. Okcupid put out an article a while back when they did some research on their site. Their research showed that only 20% of men and women received a lot of messages with the remaining 80% receiving very few. The 80% usually chose to contact the 20% with most of the time not receiving a reply from the 20%. The research recommended that users consider the more average looking profiles if they wanted to get anywhere.
   So, internet dating is mostly about everyone contacting the more attractive people. As everyone knows, attractive women (and men as well) are in demand so it can be difficult for many to find them and keep them. My experience in my own dating life and with seeing other people's social life over the years that the research above mirrors a lot of people's experiences if they want an attractive partner. Most average people may get some opportunities for more attractive people but it is rare that a 5 or 6 keeps a 7-10.
   

This is a site about Former Soviet Dating, Not Pa ;)

I believe you'll find more FSU W on dating sites such Fdating and DMNotity.com .. ( examples) ..probably applies to the likes of Elenasmodels.com
We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

Offline Davo

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Re: Why western dating sites don't work.
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2020, 08:03:46 AM »
One time while on Plenty of Fish, I added up how many men's and women's profiles logged on that day in a 50 mile radius in my area of Altoona PA. It was 3 men for every woman. Usually, I am only attracted to about 2 out of 10 women's profiles. Okcupid put out an article a while back when they did some research on their site. Their research showed that only 20% of men and women received a lot of messages with the remaining 80% receiving very few. The 80% usually chose to contact the 20% with most of the time not receiving a reply from the 20%. The research recommended that users consider the more average looking profiles if they wanted to get anywhere.
   So, internet dating is mostly about everyone contacting the more attractive people. As everyone knows, attractive women (and men as well) are in demand so it can be difficult for many to find them and keep them. My experience in my own dating life and with seeing other people's social life over the years that the research above mirrors a lot of people's experiences if they want an attractive partner. Most average people may get some opportunities for more attractive people but it is rare that a 5 or 6 keeps a 7-10.
   

Good info ⬆️

Iíll add... In my circle of close single female friends none date online. They are all reasonably attractive and successful women. They have lots of options to date men from with their wider friendship circles and men they meet in real life. One cycles through men regularly and has told me there are guys who check her FB relationship status regularly and hit her up within a few hours of her being single. In my experience the attractive women I dated online carried more baggage and had more issues than women I met in real life. This is probably why they are online....Guys who know them in real life avoid dating them.... then again, maybe I just attract psychos 😂

Another factor to consider is there are lots of fake female profiles on sites like zoosk etc... Iíve chatted with more scammers locally than on FSU sites.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 08:07:44 AM by Davo »

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Why western dating sites don't work.
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2020, 01:51:24 PM »
Western sites work but they have a bit of supply/demand issues.
There are always more men and the few attractive women have
a hoard to pick from. I've done ok on them back when I was single
but I used humor to hook them.

My last American GF I met in person, she was 5-11, had played
collegiate basketball and volleyball and was a highschool cheerleader.
I've never had a problem getting attractive women to like me.

Even for me the charming and handsome hunk of a man that I am,
supply and demand in Western North Dakota was lottery ticket winner
odds.

Different regions are better or worse than others and as Western
women age more and more of the singles are on various forms of brain
medication. Many have taken hormonal birth control pills for year and
then started mixing it with Prozac, Celexa, Lexapro, zoloft and others. 

The reason that FSU sites are better for Western men is because they
have a supply and demand problem for women over a certain age.
40 year old Russian women who desire marriage and a family have
a lower supply of men who have the same goals.

All the FSU Men who desire marriage and a family with a 40 year old
women get snatched up and they become more and more scarce each
year.

The percentage of 40 year old FSUW who have taken hormonal birth
control for decades and zoloft for years is minuscule. You can find a
ton of FSUW who haven't cooked their brain chemistry in an Easy
Bake oven.

It's supply and demand.

« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 01:59:30 PM by 2tallbill »
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

Offline treddie

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Re: Why western dating sites don't work.
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2020, 03:00:28 PM »
The percentage of 40 year old FSUW who have taken hormonal birth
control for decades and zoloft for years is minuscule. You can find a
ton of FSUW who haven't cooked their brain chemistry in an Easy
Bake oven.

Hmm. That's an interesting thought - the birth control pills. I once had a girlfriend who was taking some very strong pills for birth control. When I noticed what she was taking I suggested we get a professional opinion. Her doctor told us that those were very strong and definitely had side effects. The doctor switched her to some milder pills but it did make me wary. Even if such pills are safe (no physical harm), they can still cause unwanted effects.

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Why western dating sites don't work.
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2020, 05:32:13 AM »
Thank you Davo, Civ & 2tallbill (but not Mobe ;D ) for your comments. I think there is some good stuff in what you put. I think the point about the 80 percent of men & women not being attractive to the other but going for the 20 percent attractive men & women but often getting little joy is a valid one in western dating sites. Also I think as pointed out there is an undeniable more men to women ratio & more activity from men in western dating sites, that is a point that seems to have been reflected in a lot of material to be found about western online dating for years and mirrors my experience of it and those I have heard from females I've talked to.

Another main and crucial point is definitely problem women that are present in western online dating sites. To be honest with you guys I think western online dating sites should be banned by western countries they are a bad idea. I have seen and heard of far too many women that online date who are just psycho's, they shouldn't be on there and inflicting themselves on others. There are of course men as well but the number of women with problems seems a lot more. Sometimes you can even tell it in the write up in their profile (if they do one), many don't which covers the problem and the can later turn around and say 'I never said I did...' well it's not on that they hid it deliberately either by doing no profile statement. I think there are too many women like that on these sites that can just wreak decent people's lives who are totally unaware of the issue.

Myself I haven't done western dating sites for quite a few years and don't intend to. I see them as a waste of time and a bad idea. Too much male demand for poor quality women that are not just below par but very below par. If I were to try local dating I think meeting people out and about is way better than online dating. Too much time is spent on geeking around doing western online dating that could be more fruitfully spent out in the field. For me I've done speed dating four times and I don't see that the women are serious enough or would come through for me and of course potentially women with issues their also. Bars and nightclubs I wouldn't do well in as usually far too many guys who outstrip me fast socially.

I know women around their 40's was brought up here as a group to go for but for me they tend not to interest me. Many have been left on the shelf for a reason and aside from any issue about whether they can have children or not I tend to like younger women.

The only group I could see myself as possibly having an easy time with would probably be young mums in their twenties who are single. I'm not saying I am going for this group just that in terms of western dating they are likely the only group who I could see that I would be of interest to them. I know of some, not closely and while they cope being single mums they would probably find an older single guy who is capable at stuff and knows how stuff works reassuring. Most other women western society has enabled them to function without the need of a man with little or no adverse affect. Young single mums on the other hand tend to be on the margins of society, they get by in the west but unless lucky and in wealthy circumstances are not comfortably Independant. I don't live in an area where they tend to. They tend to live in social housing areas which while they are a few miles down the road to me they are not in the local community in which I float around in.

If I were to strike up a relationship for the sake of discussion here I wouldn't want to be tied down to one. So definitely no marriage and no living in with them without keeping my own abode to which I could fall back on. So no buying property with them etc as that's not the sort of entanglement that I would wish for. If it were moving in with them and pitching in a bit of rent money or sleeping over as and when that would be fine with me but all other stuff would be too all in for me. If the situation came of having my own children with them that would be different but that's the only situation I would do that in again though marriage I would not counternance as it's too much of a unhelpful bind for both parties I believe.
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Offline civi68

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Re: Why western dating sites don't work.
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2020, 06:45:16 AM »
I wanted to add a few things from what I said and from other posters comments. First, I also notice that many attractive women are not on dating sites but end up meeting men they already know on Facebook. One of the trends is people not going to bars but using social media. (a lot of the bars in central PA are practically empty) Basically, using the internet as face control. I read one article where women prefer this method instead of having to fend off so many men in social situations.
   Trench, younger attractive girls will be in demand no matter their status. They are not on the margins. Most women on public assistance are not married but have a boyfriend and network of friends. If you want a rough, overweight welfare type, you will probably find many willing partners but forget about that there are young, beautiful girls on welfare lonely for an older man. They tend to date bad boys while the government pays the bills.
   Overall, this discussion leads back to why many of us choose the FSU. Attractive women are in demand, particularly with the percentage of obese women in the US being 1 out of 3. The average guy has a tough time finding or keeping one. Many guys spend years trying to find some way to make it work with these women. Some are successful and some have some measure of success but the women don't stick around long-term. (ever have these women tell you they are tired of the self-centered hot guys and want you since you are nice? Been there many times and believe I am there right now!) Other guys go the other route and take a plain or overweight women and think the rest of us are crazy for pursuing the cute ones.
   Most of the The challenge in the FSU is not to repeat the same mistakes of pursuing the FSU women in demand or thinking that these rules don't apply. Many a man has found to his detriment whether in the FSU, or worse, after marriage, that he chose a high in demand woman that was not that interested in him.
   Best to try to find a reasonably attractive FSU woman close to your age. Make sure you have a relationship where there is respect and it seems that she is really into you. And hopefully, you then can read conversations like this one and feel you are glad to be finally out of it!
   

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Re: Why western dating sites don't work.
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2020, 07:51:46 AM »
I wanted to add a few things from what I said and from other posters comments. First, I also notice that many attractive women are not on dating sites but end up meeting men they already know on Facebook. One of the trends is people not going to bars but using social media. (a lot of the bars in central PA are practically empty) Basically, using the internet as face control. I read one article where women prefer this method instead of having to fend off so many men in social situations.
   Trench, younger attractive girls will be in demand no matter their status. They are not on the margins. Most women on public assistance are not married but have a boyfriend and network of friends. If you want a rough, overweight welfare type, you will probably find many willing partners but forget about that there are young, beautiful girls on welfare lonely for an older man. They tend to date bad boys while the government pays the bills.
   Overall, this discussion leads back to why many of us choose the FSU. Attractive women are in demand, particularly with the percentage of obese women in the US being 1 out of 3. The average guy has a tough time finding or keeping one. Many guys spend years trying to find some way to make it work with these women. Some are successful and some have some measure of success but the women don't stick around long-term. (ever have these women tell you they are tired of the self-centered hot guys and want you since you are nice? Been there many times and believe I am there right now!) Other guys go the other route and take a plain or overweight women and think the rest of us are crazy for pursuing the cute ones.
   Most of the The challenge in the FSU is not to repeat the same mistakes of pursuing the FSU women in demand or thinking that these rules don't apply. Many a man has found to his detriment whether in the FSU, or worse, after marriage, that he chose a high in demand woman that was not that interested in him.
   Best to try to find a reasonably attractive FSU woman close to your age. Make sure you have a relationship where there is respect and it seems that she is really into you. And hopefully, you then can read conversations like this one and feel you are glad to be finally out of it!
   

I agree Civ, I wasn't meaning really attractive young single mums with kids, i.e 8-10 ish, I've seen a fair few of them and like you say they have no trouble getting guys. Not talking about the fat slob single mothers either they are way too much of a turn off to me. I'm really talking about the ones in the middle 5-7 ish, even maybe a 4 ish that I find in some way attractive. I find a lot of those women seem to be single, not hot enough looking for the bad boys, model studs and the like but an unwanted burden for many guys who have access to 5-7 women without kids. I probably didn't explain it well enough before but that is where I see possibility.

I agree also that going for an 8-10 model in the FSU is a bad idea unless a guy has a real hook to keep her long term.

1 out of every 3 women in the US now obese!!! :o I had no idea the problem had got so bad there, worse than here it sounds and it's not good here either on that front. It's a difficult one as although it's theoretically a fixable issue it just kind of gives me the impression of negative character traits and is just kind of unpleasant for a woman to accept herself that way and to look at.
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Re: Why western dating sites don't work.
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2020, 08:57:13 AM »
I agree Civ, I wasn't meaning really attractive young single mums with kids, i.e 8-10 ish, I've seen a fair few of them and like you say they have no trouble getting guys. Not talking about the fat slob single mothers either they are way too much of a turn off to me. I'm really talking about the ones in the middle 5-7 ish, even maybe a 4 ish that I find in some way attractive. I find a lot of those women seem to be single, not hot enough looking for the bad boys, model studs and the like but an unwanted burden for many guys who have access to 5-7 women without kids. I probably didn't explain it well enough before but that is where I see possibility.

I agree also that going for an 8-10 model in the FSU is a bad idea unless a guy has a real hook to keep her long term.

1 out of every 3 women in the US now obese!!! :o I had no idea the problem had got so bad there, worse than here it sounds and it's not good here either on that front. It's a difficult one as although it's theoretically a fixable issue it just kind of gives me the impression of negative character traits and is just kind of unpleasant for a woman to accept herself that way and to look at.

I guess I'm just a glutton for punishment but I am going to try to explain this to you one more time  :D

Get out of that mind f*ck that you've done to yourself that you are willing to settle with a "4-7". A woman's attractiveness or body shape on the Trench scale doesn't mean dick in the bigger picture for a number of reasons yet, that seems to be your only criterion. This also isn't about the women one finds on a dating site. There is obese, crazy drug addicted men and women on every site from every country. They are all part of the demographic and the percentages do not mean dick. If you are looking for that one life partner, look for her. She'll be a 10 to you no matter WTF you think she is to someone else. It won't matter. Look for your woman and anything else is a waste of time. Quit thinking you need what someone perceives as a 4-7, you don't. You don't deserve any woman. You want one, big difference. See if you can earn a place in the woman's heart that you think you want. That requires you having real feelings not your perceived entitlement to a 4-7. Get greedy and get your 10, how someone else may see her be dammed 

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Re: Why western dating sites don't work.
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2020, 11:01:43 AM »
I guess I'm just a glutton for punishment but I am going to try to explain this to you one more time  :D

Get out of that mind f*ck that you've done to yourself that you are willing to settle with a "4-7". A woman's attractiveness or body shape on the Trench scale doesn't mean dick in the bigger picture for a number of reasons yet, that seems to be your only criterion. This also isn't about the women one finds on a dating site. There is obese, crazy drug addicted men and women on every site from every country. They are all part of the demographic and the percentages do not mean dick. If you are looking for that one life partner, look for her. She'll be a 10 to you no matter WTF you think she is to someone else. It won't matter. Look for your woman and anything else is a waste of time. Quit thinking you need what someone perceives as a 4-7, you don't. You don't deserve any woman. You want one, big difference. See if you can earn a place in the woman's heart that you think you want. That requires you having real feelings not your perceived entitlement to a 4-7. Get greedy and get your 10, how someone else may see her be dammed

Of course a 4-7 or whatever would be a 10 to me, people get into the girl they are with or want to be with so they are a 10 in that person's eyes. Yet at the same time lets face it a guy will look at a girl whether on a profile or in real life that he does not yet know and well a girl who has model looks will score an 8-10 with him and most other guys. Some guys will stand a chance of landing that girl, most won't and some won't be interested either even though she is attractive she isn't their, type, look, chemistry, etc, etc. Some may know that they stand no chance see that she has guys already swooning around her like flies around sh*t whilst she most likely already has a bf. I've seen that type of girl loads of times.

I believe the same as Pat that there is always a rough subconscious 'dating equation' that goes on. People may be dismissive of this and may not understand the variables but it is true I believe. Many people will say he or she is not into me for this or that but quite often there is something else, something neither they or their partner realise. For instance no the guy is not rich so the girl can say she is not with him for the money but he may be good socially or can make her laugh, etc, etc.

Basically that equation has to roughly even up, if stuff changes along the way or a partner learns stuff about their other half that they did not know/realise before then if it's significant enough it can potentially do that relationship in over time. Stuff can change on both sides though so for example a guy who was wealthy then becomes less so a girl who might ditch him might have aged in the time she knew him with looks beginning to fade. The ex-rich guy might not be able to attract another woman with nothing else to offer while the girl with looks beginning to fade might find it unlikely to find another guy she would like as time has gotten on.

We all like to think it is us and how into someone we are but behind the scenes there is always the subconscious dating equation operating, its human instinct at work.
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Re: Why western dating sites don't work.
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2020, 11:11:42 AM »
I think Civ's point about people deserting bars for Facebook is an interesting one. I guess the girls can cut out all the tentative hopefuls and go straight for the studs that they want and the stud guys can go for all the model girls, lol.

I guess it makes more sense than Western Dating Sites. It's easier to verify the person is real, whether married, a timeline to potentially see better what type of person they are than what they portray, etc. It's probably a bit better in that respect but still you don't necessarily see the real person or if there is Chemistry until meeting plus it's dependant on forming a lot of connections and then an acceptable introduction to get access to the number of women needed and again with many unless you look fairly good looking or better chances probably aren't that great.
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Re: Why western dating sites don't work.
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2020, 02:23:55 PM »
Of course a 4-7 or whatever would be a 10 to me, people get into the girl they are with or want to be with so they are a 10 in that person's eyes. Yet at the same time lets face it a guy will look at a girl whether on a profile or in real life that he does not yet know and well a girl who has model looks will score an 8-10 with him and most other guys. Some guys will stand a chance of landing that girl, most won't and some won't be interested either even though she is attractive she isn't their, type, look, chemistry, etc, etc. Some may know that they stand no chance see that she has guys already swooning around her like flies around sh*t whilst she most likely already has a bf. I've seen that type of girl loads of times.

I believe the same as Pat that there is always a rough subconscious 'dating equation' that goes on. People may be dismissive of this and may not understand the variables but it is true I believe. Many people will say he or she is not into me for this or that but quite often there is something else, something neither they or their partner realise. For instance no the guy is not rich so the girl can say she is not with him for the money but he may be good socially or can make her laugh, etc, etc.

Basically that equation has to roughly even up, if stuff changes along the way or a partner learns stuff about their other half that they did not know/realise before then if it's significant enough it can potentially do that relationship in over time. Stuff can change on both sides though so for example a guy who was wealthy then becomes less so a girl who might ditch him might have aged in the time she knew him with looks beginning to fade. The ex-rich guy might not be able to attract another woman with nothing else to offer while the girl with looks beginning to fade might find it unlikely to find another guy she would like as time has gotten on.

We all like to think it is us and how into someone we are but behind the scenes there is always the subconscious dating equation operating, its human instinct at work.

Not really, that's just your lack of confidence. There are literally 1000's of different personalities of women and most of those personalities do not group together by model looks or weight category. Let's face this, you do not have the ability to walk up to a stunning looking woman and engage conversation and express interest do you? If you had,  you would know they are not all the same (not even close) or have the same personality, or same interest in men. Many are not looking for Adonis. Perhaps they've already had plenty of men with model looks and/or fat wallets. You don't have a clue what that woman wants until she tells you and even then you don't know if she's lying or not.

Do you with any regularity approach women who are a 1-3 on the Trench scale? I'd wager you don't do that either. You think they're ugly, they're fat. I'm not saying this to cast shade on you but, you only think and consider the visual. The looks and body that appeals to you. They have minds brother and once you start exploring them and looking at their minds, you'll likely find many of them much more attractive than you did from first glance.

There's an old belief that a woman can often decide within the first 2 minutes of meeting a man if she would sleep with him. I believe that. Not that that can change it often does as women are know to change their mind often. You bog down in your mind that she's too pretty for you and talk yourself out of approaching her.

As an aside, I've had a very good friend of 35-40 years. He actually loved the rejection. For him it was/is a numbers game and his approach was completely crude and nasty. In a bar or other social setting he would approach any woman and often the first sentence out of his mouth was "Do you want to f*uck?". He got slapped often. Many women would never speak to him again. He swears about 1 of 7 times the answer is yes. I've seen him with women 1-11 on the Trench scale

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Re: Why western dating sites don't work.
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2020, 12:02:47 AM »
I never understood why some guys are impressed by another male's confidence to bed a stranger...

That is the EASY part... 

Having the same women STILL wanting you 5, 10 plus years later... They're the guys I respect !
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Re: Why western dating sites don't work.
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2020, 06:34:05 AM »
I want to clarify about the Facebook. The guys I know that are successful on there are not using it as a dating site. They are on there like everyone else but they naturally meet women through their various Facebook friends. When some of them become single, it's simple enough for either a man or woman to contact each other. Or another friend mentions them. They also meet these friends at private social gatherings shared on the feed.
   A guy I know who is 39 years old doesn't go to bars but spends a lot of time on Facebook and also with some of those people in real life. He is a stud type and so are most of his FB male friends. Most of his women FB friends are beautiful, too. He shares about all of the dating going on within this group. Many of these people really don't need to go anywhere to find someone.
   So, if you are asking yourself where are all of the attractive women and how come the traditional places of meeting people have less people, this is one of the new ways where people are now meeting. The big difference is that they are now dating within the group. Some people may not like this trend since it reduces a lot of social interaction with more people. However, it was not that great for everyone to meet in bars where guys would be frustrated with girls not interested in talking with them and the girls frustrated with unwanted attention.

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Why western dating sites don't work.
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2020, 09:12:17 AM »
I know women around their 40's was brought up here as a group to go for but
for me they tend not to interest me. Many have been left on the shelf for a
reason and aside from any issue about whether they can have children or
not I tend to like younger women.

No sh!t? Everyone likes younger women at least from a looks
standpoint. You don't have much of a chance with them because
of all your problems, hangups and finances. You also don't make
enough money to procreate.

40 years old is just a number, drop it down to 37 and see what
profiles are available. The higher the age the better chance you
will have.


The only group I could see myself as possibly having an easy time with would probably be young mums in their twenties who are single.

Unless they were extremely fat they would be totally uninterested in you.
Hot single mothers are NEVER interested in +40 yr men that don't have
jags and jets. You are destined for scamming.

So definitely no marriage and no ..........words, words, words, stupid words, words,
stupid stuff, words, words, words, stupid words, words, stupid stuff, words, words,
words, stupid words, words, stupid stuff, words, words, words, stupid words, words,
stupid stuff, words, words, words, stupid words, words, stupid stuff, words, words,
words, stupid words, words, stupid stuff, words, words, words, stupid words, words 

It has been recommended that you get a little bit of experience locally.
You don't have to marry a local to get experience dating. You can learn
from the experience but I doubt that you will.

You will be fuming over why she ordered expensive cream for her coffee
instead of the free powder packets and be asking to split the bill since
you didn't order any expensive cream.

What you could be doing is to get some local dates and become more
comfortable around women and learning how to act around them, what
works and what doesn't and how not to screw it all up.

FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

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Re: Why western dating sites don't work.
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2020, 04:49:01 PM »

There's an old belief that a woman can often decide within the first 2 minutes of meeting a man if she would sleep with him. I believe that. Not that that can change it often does as women are know to change their mind often. You bog down in your mind that she's too pretty for you and talk yourself out of approaching her.

As an aside, I've had a very good friend of 35-40 years. He actually loved the rejection. For him it was/is a numbers game and his approach was completely crude and nasty. In a bar or other social setting he would approach any woman and often the first sentence out of his mouth was "Do you want to f*uck?". He got slapped often. Many women would never speak to him again. He swears about 1 of 7 times the answer is yes. I've seen him with women 1-11 on the Trench scale

My father used to tell me of a guy that did the same thing, same result. In a sense it is probably the best and most clever way forward. I think only though with girls who stand around obviously eyeing you up (probably not in the workplace though as it's probably too awkward for there) as it calls the girl out on whether she is truly up for it or not. None of this eyeing back and forth for ages with who if anyone makes a move and lots of long winded conversation that may (probably) result in no joy. Girls can mess a guy around and give him the run around, line him up as a reserve option, have a bf, or like you say FP he may lose ground with the girl over time. So best to move in when likely at he's best which particularly for me would be on first sighting :) I don't really mind being bitch slapped by a hot girl, by an ugly one yes but a hot one no, can even be a bit kinky :P.

As I age I don't get eyed up as much as I used to but it was always an awkward situation when it happened as it was like the girl expected me to make a move and be like Shakespeare and make a faultless chat up. Not knowing the girl I often was left dumbfounded and clueless with what to say, doing what you said here FP would certainly come as a relief to get away from that bs. I think though in the example I heard the guy was just going up to each and every girl in a pub without any eye contact cue. So in that case I don't think it's the best but in the case of a girl giving if a strong definite visual cue is probably the best thing to say just to get closure one way or the other. Good Advice :)

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Re: Why western dating sites don't work.
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2020, 05:24:22 PM »
No sh!t? Everyone likes younger women at least from a looks
standpoint. You don't have much of a chance with them because
of all your problems, hangups and finances. You also don't make
enough money to procreate.

I could have a chance with the young single mums in their mid to late twenties I believe. It's kind of like going to Ukraine in that there they have the problem of wealth, i.e they have a negative on the equation so that can balance out against my negative. Here the young mums have the negative of having to bring up a single child on their own, any problems they may have and probably not being too well off - the more recent ones moreso now that the newly introduced 'Universal Credit' welfare payment that replaces all other welfare payments limits the child portion payout to two kids and is less even on those two than before. That said I think if a girl just had one child that would be preferable.

I'm not saying this as a girl I would necessarily go for and I would have to be closer to the area they all live in, but if I wanted to date a local girl even for a short time they would now be the best candidates for me.

To achieve this apart from going to where they are I would need to tone up a bit more which should happen as my new gym routine takes effect. That and a slight bit of filler would probably help. That would probably knock away enough of the negatives to make the dating equation work. To a 5-7 ish girl in her mid to late twenties where there is natural chemistry I could probably be a good enough prospect and as a older guy probably find me very reassuring to have around and so even up the dating equation.
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Re: Why western dating sites don't work.
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2020, 05:47:05 PM »
Trench, you JUST do not 'get it'..

No amount of gym is going to 'help' re your misogyny..

You have NO concept of social graces with women.



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Re: Why western dating sites don't work.
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2020, 07:55:08 PM »
Trench, you JUST do not 'get it'..

No amount of gym is going to 'help' re your misogyny..

You have NO concept of social graces with women.

Lol, misogyny is the natural order of the world, at least it should be ;)

Most women who are young single mums don't have social graces, for me I view that as a positive as social graces is just snobbery that make forming a relationship awkward. Better we just get to it with what we want with each other instead of letting a load of horse poop get in the way.
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