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Author Topic: Whether FSU women have enough local men?  (Read 1153 times)

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Offline Tea with lemon

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Whether FSU women have enough local men?
« on: March 05, 2020, 03:39:57 AM »
Whether FSU women have enough local men?

There are disputes regarding the number of men in the post-Soviet countries. Some say that there are not enough men, so women are forced to the international marriage market. Others say that this is a lie invented by marriage agencies. What is really going on?
To get the most accurate answer, you do not need to listen to marriage agents, neighbors, as well as read multiple times rewrote articles on the Internet. More reliable to see the official statistics. The easiest way to get it is to open the Demographics page on Wikipedia. Let's start with the Demography of Russia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia
The first thing to see is the composition of the population:


Look at the ratio of men and women from 15 to 64 years. Let's do elementary calculations: 52,088,967 - 48,166,470 = 3,992,497.
Almost 4 million Russian women who have no chance of having a family. Of course, coverage from 15 to 64 is too wide. The diagram below shows a specific age when women start to feel a shortage of men.

 

By the way, this diagram clearly shows the answer to the question when a woman from FSU lie about her purpose of finding a foreign man, and when she does not.
The same information in numbers:

 

The most interesting category is 25–54 years:
male 30,868,831 / female 31,960,407
Let's calculate: 31,960,407 – 30,868,831 = 1,091,576.
 
What if we add single women of Ukraine and Belarus?
Ukraine:
25-54 years: 44.03% (male 9,522,108 / female 9,831,924) = there are 861,545 of women without men.
Belarus:
25–54 years: 45.5% (male 2,141,419 / female 2,227,433). These are additional 86,014 women.
Total: 1091576 + 861545 + 86014 = 2,039,135 women.

Here is a seven-digit number that shows how many women of Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus who have to live without men in their country – what do you think is this enough for all interested foreign men to learn how to pronounce the word "borsch"?
If it's not enough, we could remove gays from the total number of FSU men. You can tell, that the percentage of gays is equal in any country.  I agree.
Let’s instead of gays exclude men, who have citizenship but do not live in FSU countries and work somewhere else. There are a lot of them. And these are the best representatives of the male population - you know, visas like H-1B in the US can be given only to highly qualified specialists, and these visas do not remain unused each year.
Also, we should not count men, who just do not want to marry. What about men, who incapable to marry due to health reasons? Do not forget alcoholics, drug addicts, mentally ill persons, and men serving sentences in prisons. Do you think that the percentage of those people is equal in any country?  Let me do not agree at this point. To achieve a complete understanding we have to look at the history of the Soviet Union.
 
A short historical excursion
The last 100 years in Russia have been extremely stormy. Two revolutions, two world wars, one civil war, several local wars - all of it brought a significant decrease in the male population. In addition to wars, in Russia was set a global experiment of creating an artificial system (communism). It was required dictatorship (Stalin) with the genocide of own people (Gulag). It was a physical extermination of men. Especially high-quality men. The communist system was built on turning people into obedient cogs, deprived of their own opinions.  The system purposefully worked on the destroying of every man, who allowed himself to have too meaningful eyes. Who was survived? Those, who survive everywhere. You know what I mean. And exactly those survivors mostly left their genes in the next generations.
But that's not everything yet: the 20th century was marked by two collapses of state systems (the collapse of the Russian Empire and the collapse of the Soviet Union), which caused the collapse of economic systems that deprived people of work and livelihoods. Men simply couldn't live in such conditions. They were just broken. They died. Or became alcoholics first and then died.
 
Quote from Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia
While the Russian birth rate is comparable to that of developed countries, its death rate is much higher, especially among working-age males due to a comparatively high rate of fatalities caused by heart disease and other external causes such as accidents.
The causes of this sharp increase in mortality are widely debated. According to a 2009 report by The Lancet, a British medical journal, mass privatization, an element of the economic-reform package nicknamed shock therapy, clearly correlates with higher mortality rates. The report argues that advocates of economic reforms ignored the human cost of the policies they were promoting, such as unemployment and human suffering, leading to an early death…
When controlling for confounding variables, neither alcoholism, poverty, pollution, nor the collapse of the health system explain the high male mortality. Most former communist countries got through the same economic collapse and the health system collapse.


In the 90s, the smartest and active men began to master the science of running their own business. At the same time, the other part of the FSU men were unable to do it. They created criminal groups. They started to put their forces into the destruction of what aspiring entrepreneurs created. Sometimes criminals were been caught and imprisoned. Later they came out from the prisons already fully formed bandits. Is there a corner somewhere on the planet where people have not heard of Russian bandits? What do you think: do all Russian women like criminals? A huge number of women preferred solitude, refusing to make a choice between a bandit and an alcoholic.

But this is not the end yet. There are behavioral stereotypes inherent exclusively to Russian men. Sociologists call this "suicidal behavior." In addition to real suicides, this also means a lifestyle leading to accelerated self-destruction. According to Russian men, they have to be brutal machos, almost King Kong. A man should not be sick, but if he is, he considers visiting a doctor is below his dignity - only if you are almost dead. If a man hospitalized, he must ignore all the doctor’s prescriptions and do not take any medications. A Russian man sees a car safety belt as a cross between a dogs' collar and a means of rescue for cowards. Alcohol and smoking are essential elements of masculinity. Moreover, the more a man is able to drink strong alcohol and stay on his feet, the more he is considered courageous. So every man has to practice to be fit. We cannot say that this behavior is natural for every Russian man. But society requires such behavior from him. When my sons were young, I bought them helmets for cycling. At about 9 y.o., they flatly refused to wear helmets because the other boys started to tease them for it. In Russia, if you see a cyclist with his helmet on, you can be sure that he is a foreigner.

Quote from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia
A WHO press-release in 2000, on the other hand, reported widespread alcohol abuse in Russia being used as the most common explanation of higher mortality among men. A 2008 study produced very similar results.
A 2009 study blamed alcohol for more than half the deaths (52%) among Russians aged 15 to 54 in the '90s. For the same demographic, this compares to 4% of deaths for the rest of the world.
Alcohol consumption per capita is as high in other East European countries. Poverty is high in many other countries. One factor that could explain the low male lifespan in Russia is violence, tolerance for violence and tolerance for risk, "male toughness". Violence, tolerance for risk together with alcoholism reduce the Russian male lifespan.
The life expectancy was about 70 in 1986, prior to the transition-induced disruption of the healthcare system. The turmoil in the early 1990s caused life expectancy in Russia to steadily decrease while it was steadily increasing in the rest of the world.


All the above make Russia a country of widows.

Women for several generations constantly lost their men and cherished each of them. When you see that a Russian woman cannot go to the back yard without her makeup on, you can make fun of her, but you have to understand that this is the result of fierce competition between women for men.


Online John Gaunt

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Re: Whether FSU women have enough local men?
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2020, 06:00:01 AM »
Great post. 🙏🙏🙏

Online msmob

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Re: Whether FSU women have enough local men?
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2020, 07:09:21 AM »
1,091,576.
 
What if we add single women of Ukraine and Belarus?
Ukraine:
25-54 years: 44.03% (male 9,522,108 / female 9,831,924) = there are 861,545 of women without men.




Looking at those numbers, I think the difference in only 300K?

I remember seeing more recent figures and mem were equal to or outnumbered women in their teens and twenties..

The big differences cut in in the fifties as so many FSU men lived less long,...?



We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

Offline ML

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Re: Whether FSU women have enough local men?
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2020, 09:35:12 AM »
Tea with Lemon, thanks for your interesting and detailed posting.

However, I think your statistical focus is still not the relevant one for those interested in cross cultural dating and marriage.

You say the most interesting group is age 25-54.
I disagree.
The most relevant group would be those 20-40.
I understand that age group is not shown on the charts you present, but that info is probably available somewhere.
In that 20-40 age group, I am confident (from previous data I have seen) that the number of males outnumber the number of females in the FSU.

And you can't be subtracting out an estimated number of gay men without also subtracting out the lesbians.

Further, I read the below segment that you wrote to my FSU wife . . . and she disagreed with it saying it was substantially exaggerated.

"But this is not the end yet. There are behavioral stereotypes inherent exclusively to Russian men. Sociologists call this "suicidal behavior." In addition to real suicides, this also means a lifestyle leading to accelerated self-destruction. According to Russian men, they have to be brutal machos, almost King Kong. A man should not be sick, but if he is, he considers visiting a doctor is below his dignity - only if you are almost dead. If a man hospitalized, he must ignore all the doctor’s prescriptions and do not take any medications. A Russian man sees a car safety belt as a cross between a dogs' collar and a means of rescue for cowards. Alcohol and smoking are essential elements of masculinity. Moreover, the more a man is able to drink strong alcohol and stay on his feet, the more he is considered courageous. So every man has to practice to be fit. We cannot say that this behavior is natural for every Russian man. But society requires such behavior from him."
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Offline Boethius

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Re: Whether FSU women have enough local men?
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2020, 01:21:49 PM »
Here's a breakdown of male-female ratios by age group in Russia.  I couldn't find one (easily) for Ukraine.


http://www.statista.com/statistics/1005416/population-russia-gender-age-group/


Google was used to find the above link.
True love begins when nothing is looked for in return.  Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Offline ML

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Re: Whether FSU women have enough local men?
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2020, 01:35:24 PM »
Here's a breakdown of male-female ratios by age group in Russia.  I couldn't find one (easily) for Ukraine.


http://www.statista.com/statistics/1005416/population-russia-gender-age-group/


Google was used to find the above link.

Yes, that gives the statistics that are close to what I spoke of.

"In all age groups until 34 years old, there were more men than women in Russia as of January 1, 2019. After that age, females outnumbered the male population in each category. The most represented age group of the country’s population was from 30 to 34 years old, with approximately 6.33 million women and 6.39 million men."

So the 20 something and mid 30s women in FSU cannot use the excuse that there aren't enough local men available.

And actually there should be a surplus of available men given that the 20-35 year old women have all the men in that same age bracket . . . plus all the men that are 5-10-15-20 years above their own age.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Online 2tallbill

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Whether FSU women have enough local men?
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2020, 02:52:14 PM »
Whether FSU women have enough local men?

By the way, this diagram clearly shows the answer to the question when a woman from FSU lie about her purpose of finding a foreign man, and when she does not.
The same information in numbers:

If it's not enough, we could remove gays from the total number of FSU men. You can tell, that the percentage of gays is equal in any country.  I agree.
Let’s instead of gays exclude men, who have citizenship but do not live in FSU countries and work somewhere else. There are a lot of them. And these are the best representatives of the male population - you know, visas like H-1B in the US can be given only to highly qualified specialists, and these visas do not remain unused each year.
Also, we should not count men, who just do not want to marry. What about men, who incapable to marry due to health reasons? Do not forget alcoholics, drug addicts, mentally ill persons, and men serving sentences in prisons. Do you think that the percentage of those people is equal in any country?  Let me do not agree at this point. To achieve a complete understanding we have to look at the history of the Soviet Union.

Women for several generations constantly lost their men and cherished each of them. When you see that a Russian woman cannot go to the back yard without her makeup on, you can make fun of her, but you have to understand that this is the result of fierce competition between women for men.


I've written about this previously here on the forum. I don't know where
it was. The problem is as much perception as it is in reality. There are
less men than women over a certain age, but there are also less men
desiring marriage especially with women who are over a certain age
and with women who have existing children.

For whatever reason FSU men start looking at women over the age of
say 37 like milk that has expired. Those men would happily lay on her
couch, have sex with her and get waited on hand and foot, but those
men would have ZERO intention of marrying her.

So that means the number of men available for marriage is even less
than the number of men who aren't dead.

There are also more practicing gay men than women. I've posted links
to prove this in the past but I don't have time to do it now. If somebody
wants to Google this they can find it. There are far more incarcerated
men than women in the FSU. There are more drug addicts and there
are more alcoholics. As you've said earlier there are more practicing
gay men than practicing gay women. You can use Google to find links
that verify all of this.

If somebody knows where I posted this information, I posted links back
when Moby challenged me on this.

Udachi!

Bill
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

Online krimster2

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Re: Whether FSU women have enough local men?
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2020, 03:38:42 PM »
gosh Bill, your posts have been so riveting and so full of vital never before seen details, that I produced a concordance of all of your old posts...
but...
my dawg ate it, sorry...
bummer. man..



Online 2tallbill

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Re: Whether FSU women have enough local men?
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2020, 04:40:03 PM »
bummer. man..

I didn't think you would remember but Trench who linked to it
and Moby who disputed my post might have remember what
thread it was in (or not).



FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

Online GQBlues

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Re: Whether FSU women have enough local men?
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2020, 05:10:45 PM »
There is about as much substance in this particular subject point as there are when WMs justifies their search in poorer regions of the globe because all western women are obese, or not feminine enough, or that FSUWs are somehow 'more' family-oriented, etc...
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

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Re: Whether FSU women have enough local men?
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2020, 08:22:42 PM »

There is enough men in the FSU but who wants just a body? Are there enough family oriented, good, financially secure men who can support a family for every woman in the FSU? No.
Do your part to limit the spread of COVID-19

Offline rwd123

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Re: Whether FSU women have enough local men?
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2020, 03:18:13 PM »
There is a quantity vs. quality element to the discussion, which is subjective but valid.

Once women hit a certain age they become far less desirable for marriage (for the average Russian man). For example, as a Western man I'd have no interest in any relationship with any woman 40+ who wants marriage and kids. Other men will have similar attitudes just in respect to marriage.

For older men (say 35+) who have never married they will either have very high (eligible bachelors) or very low (drunks, etc.) demand. The high demand bachelors will generally opt for younger women. For those divorced they may be more inclined to be in a relationship without marrying.

Lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Online 2tallbill

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Re: Whether FSU women have enough local men?
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2020, 06:37:39 PM »
Lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Figures don't lie, but liars will figure
Carroll D. Wright
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

Online msmob

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Re: Whether FSU women have enough local men?
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2020, 10:38:08 PM »
I didn't think you would remember but Trench who linked to it
and Moby who disputed my post might have remember what
thread it was in (or not).

Sorry, Beel...I normally remember our differences of opinion...

I am sure you are correct..but cannot remember this case (
We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

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Re: Whether FSU women have enough local men?
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2020, 05:32:45 AM »
So I take it, the past 20 years or so: men stopped being gay, stopped being alcoholics and drug addicts, Russia implemented prison reform, most births 20 year ago were males and are now all grown men, etc. since the M.O.B. had lliterally departed from Russia these days.

Sorry. I was under the impression improved economy is the reason why.

Why do we keep giving life to these urban myths? Does this now mean there’s a shortage of Ukrainian men?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2020, 06:01:55 AM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

 

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