1961 post card from Soviet Cosmonaut Gherman Titov

[Strider]

A judge in New Jersey has issued an injunction against any further sale/transfer of a 1961 post card from Soviet cosmonaut Gherman Titov, to John V. Doughten, Esq, a philadelphia lawyer and state legislator.  Doughten was also a HAM radio enthusiast, call letters W3LV, who spoke to Titov while in orbit.  Titov followed Yuri Gagarin in the Soviet space program, and was the first man to orbit the earth more than once, the first man to return to earth past the point of launch, the first man to spend more than 24 hours in space, the first man to experience space sickness, and he remains the youngest person ever to fly in space. 

Post cards from famous people can sell for large sums of money.  This one represents a time when the Soviets were ahead of the U.S. space program, and someone from the former USSR might pay a small fortune for it.  It is quite unique.  Any idea of how much it might be worth?

[msmob]

On what legal basis was the injunction  obtained ?

[jone]

A judge in New Jersey has issued an injunction against any further sale/transfer of a 1961 post card from Soviet cosmonaut Gherman Titov, to John V. Doughten, Esq, a philadelphia lawyer and state legislator.  Doughten was also a HAM radio enthusiast, call letters W3LV, who spoke to Titov while in orbit.  Titov followed Yuri Gagarin in the Soviet space program, and was the first man to orbit the earth more than once, the first man to return to earth past the point of launch, the first man to spend more than 24 hours in space, the first man to experience space sickness, and he remains the youngest person ever to fly in space. 

Post cards from famous people can sell for large sums of money.  This one represents a time when the Soviets were ahead of the U.S. space program, and someone from the former USSR might pay a small fortune for it.  It is quite unique.  Any idea of how much it might be worth?

Nowhere near the value that one from Gagarin would be worth.  Or John Glen, Alan Sheppard or Neil Armstrong. While Titov was one of the space pioneers, he was not the first.   But the card is evidence of a known relationship.   I'm sure that because of the fact that a judge has put a hold on sale/transfer actually upped the value from a curiosity perspective, it only represents the obsession with space at the time.   My guess would be the value at somewhere around a thousand dollars.

On a similar note, I have a friend who was in the space industry during the sixties and seventies.   He knew Neil Armstrong.   I was visiting him one day and happened to see his desk.   There, over the desk, was a framed letter from Neil.   Quite personal, actually.   I must admit to a bit of hero worship and was envious of my friend.

[Strider]

On what legal basis was the injunction  obtained ?

According to my lawyer friend, it disappeared from a family trust.  No one in the family admits to knowing what happened to it.

  My guess would be the value at somewhere around a thousand dollars.

A signed photo of Titov on EBay has a list price of $1550.  I suspect that a post card extending a conversation in space with a U.S. legislator at the height of the Cold War, sent shortly after his flight, should go for more than that at an auction.

[jone]

According to my lawyer friend, it disappeared from a family trust.  No one in the family admits to knowing what happened to it.

A signed photo of Titov on EBay has a list price of $1550.  I suspect that a post card extending a conversation in space with a U.S. legislator at the height of the Cold War, sent shortly after his flight, should go for more than that at an auction.

Real value is what an item would sell for instantaneously due to supply and demand.  Posting something on ebay is not necessarily an indicator of  value as such an item might stay there for years.   The ebay posting is a figure of what someone would wish to get for an item.  However, my figure was arbitrary.   I think we can agree that no one is going to Vegas out of the proceeds of such a sale.

[jone]

Funny aside.  Gagarin might not have been the first cosmonaut to penetrate space.   The Soviets probably sent up Vladimir Ilyushin months before Gagarin.   But the capsule landed off course, in China and did not represent the public relations victory that the Soviets sought.

[Strider]

Funny aside.  Gagarin might not have been the first cosmonaut to penetrate space.   

Gagarin never made it back to his launch site.  He landed short but was credited with having orbited the earth due to the fact that the earth had moved since he left.  Arguably, Titov was the first to orbit the earth since he passed his launch point, and more than once.

I think we can agree that no one is going to Vegas out of the proceeds of such a sale.

I saw an appraiser on a TV show yesterday valuing a 1936 postcard from Lou Gehrig.  He said that a postcard with a postmark can be worth more than a signature because it validates the signature as authentic.  Not that someone can't forge a postmark, but it makes it more difficult to do so.  He valued that postcard at (U.S.) $10,000.  That would make a nice sum for a vacation.   Appraiser's valuations are just opinions, and difficult to judge for truly unique items.  Only a sale at a well advertised auction can prove a price.  That is not an opinion, but a fact.

[jone]

LOL.

I am certainly no expert.  Just a space enthusiast.   But, before today, I don't remember ever hearing of Gherman Titov.   I had heard of Lou Gehrig.   And I have been to the Monument to the Conquerors of Space in Moscow.  (Going to the Kennedy Space Center is a lot more fun.)

As to the value, you have an opinion, so do I.  As you say, only upon having the value tested at an auction will reveal worth if the item has not seen a market before.

I hope the family whose estate this belongs to can reclaim it.   Maybe one of the grand kids sold it for some quick cash and that is why it is floating around.

[Strider]

I am certainly no expert.  Just a space enthusiast.   But, before today, I don't remember ever hearing of Gherman Titov.   

Right.  So why is that?  You know of Sheppard and Glenn, but not Titov.

Alan Sheppard never completed an orbit. 

Let's compare Titov's October 6-7, 1961 flight with Glenn's February 20, 1962 flight:
Titov-Vostock 2
Launch mass: 4,731 kg (10,430 lb)
Duration:  1 d 01 h 18 m
Orbits:  17.5

Glenn-Friendship 7
Launch mass:  2,981 pounds (1,352 kg)
Duration:  4 h 55 m 23 s   
Orbits:  3   

The fact is that Glenn set no records in space exploration.  When he landed, Titov held the records.  (It should also be noted that Titov was the first man to manually pilot a spacecraft in orbit as well.  All previous missions had no such manual flight.)  Not until the last Mercury flight on May 15, 1963 did the U.S. pass Titov's marks.  Even then, the U.S. was still behind the record of cosmonaut Pavel Popovich from Vostock 4.   

So why is that Americans think that Glenn's flight had somehow caught the Soviet space program?  I suspect that it is presented that way in American media and films, i.e., The Right Stuff, but that fails to present an accurate history of events.   Titov was the record setter, not Glenn.

[jone]

And Gargarin was a drunk who embarrassed the Soviet space program again and again before he died in 1968. 

My observation is that this family is attempting to sell a post card from a man whom 99.99% of Americans have never heard of before.   Almost all Americans don't know who Sheppard was.  Very few know who John Glenn was and most of those know because Glenn was a longtime US Senator who then went back into space a couple of years before his death in what amounts to be a publicity stunt. 

My posting before, that Vladimir Ilyushin was most likely the first man in space, didn't even illicit a response from you.   Hey.  My hat's off to Titov.  But to Americans, he doesn't exist insofar as I know.  Gargarin got the accolades.   Yet, before he went up, he was a virtually unknown and newly minted aircraft pilot who was thrust into the Cosmonaut's chair less than a week before his launch because he looked good on film.   No planning.   Old Nikita wanted someone up there as a public relations coupe.   

The value of the postcard is simply what someone is willing to pay for it.   No more, no less.   And history be damned.

[Strider]

My posting before, that Vladimir Ilyushin was most likely the first man in space, didn't even illicit a response from you.   Hey.  My hat's off to Titov.  But to Americans, he doesn't exist insofar as I know.  Gargarin got the accolades.   Yet, before he went up, he was a virtually unknown and newly minted aircraft pilot who was thrust into the Cosmonaut's chair less than a week before his launch because he looked good on film.   No planning.   Old Nikita wanted someone up there as a public relations coupe.   

The Soviets controlled the media coverage of their space program.  Accomplishments were announced after success.  Failure was hushed up.  The point is that the early records in space were set by the Soviets, quite possibly because they took greater risks.  Gargarin did nothing but replace a dog in the capsule.  He piloted nothing.  The Vostock program ended with the cosmonauts ejecting and parachuting to earth.  Technically, it didn't meet the original requirements for landing the craft on earth, but that was overlooked in recognizing his accomplishment by The Fédération Aéronautique Internationale. 

[jone]

A good read for you would be: 

"The Sputnik Challenge:  Eisenhower's Response to the Soviet Satellite."  By Robert Divine

In the book, it reveals Eisenhower to be the military mind that he was.   No concept of P.R.   But he easily recognized how far advanced the US was in military technology when compared to the Soviets.   In the book, Divine argues that the launch of Sputnik opened the door for the launch of US satellites.   Before that, Eisenhower had prohibited US rocket flights to exceed ground return.

In reality, the Soviets were pretty far behind.   Soviets could not master flight mechanics and orbital trajectories.   They'd take pictures of their rockets close together in space, but could never dock them.   The first time they ever coupled with another spacecraft was when a Soyuz docked with Apollo.   And Apollo had done all of the course adjustments.

But you are absolutely right that they were there first and that early spaceflight was dominated by the Soviets.  Hey, the backside of the moon is named with Russian names because the first pictures coming back were from a Soviet launch vehicle.   However, the Soviets only named general features because their cameras could only capture large objects such as huge craters or mountains.   All of the smaller features were observed and named by the Americans.

[Strider]

In reality, the Soviets were pretty far behind.   Soviets could not master flight mechanics and orbital trajectories.   They'd take pictures of their rockets close together in space, but could never dock them.   The first time they ever coupled with another spacecraft was when a Soyuz docked with Apollo.   And Apollo had done all of the course adjustments.

What they were ahead in was big rocket engines.  It was the Gemini program that moved the U.S. ahead of the Soviets in the space race, then the Apollo program went to the moon.  No the Soviets couldn't rendezvous in orbit like Gemini 7 and 6A accomplished in December 1965. 

For a technical comparison between the Soviet Vostock program, and the U.S. Mercury program, see here:
http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/space/lectures/lec08.html
What stands out to me is that the Soviets didn't have the escape tower engineered into Vostock the way the Americans had.  That was a rocket system above the capsule at launch that could lift it from the launch rockets in case of catastrophic failure that endangered the astronaut.   The Soviets relied only on the rockets of the command module for an emergency.  So, the U.S. program was more safety conscious in that regard.  The Soviet program had more risk in those early days.  It took a lot of courage to sit on top of all of that combustible fuel.