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Author Topic: Russia vs Ukraine  (Read 2707 times)

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Online Son of Clyde

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Russia vs Ukraine
« on: March 09, 2005, 06:07:34 AM »
These seem to be the major places we are seeking women.

Can some of the experienced guys who have visited both countries let me know the major differences between the two for those of us who are engaged ar actively seeking a mate in FSU?

Thank you.

« Last Edit: March 09, 2005, 06:11:00 AM by Son of Clyde »

Offline Bruce

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« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2005, 06:30:08 AM »
If I were you I would go to where you believe you have the highest chance of meeting the right girl, either for the right agency, or because you have written the best / most women in a particular country or region of Russia or Ukraine.  There is virtually no difference between women.  There are good and bad in both countries.  I had better luck personally with Russian women, but I met plenty of good Ukrainian women during my two trips to Ukraine, just not right for me to marry.  I think the pluses for Ukraine is that it is a smaller country, so you could easily travel to quite a number of places in one trip.  Both countries are difficult long flights to get to, but travel within Russia could be more difficult due to the distances.  It all depends where you are going in Russia.  Both countries have been equally friendly to me.  In some visa circumstances (direct counselar filing) you can get a woman from Ukraine into the USA faster than Russia, but I would not recommend marrying a girl in the FSU.  I think it is more prudent to do a K-1, marry here and protect your assets with a pre-nup.  I just think of Ukraine being a large state in Russia, sort of like Texas vs the whole United States.  Now, Ukraine hates to be thought of as a large State or worse as a Russian territory ie. The Ukraine; but to the average American going over it will seem pretty much like Russia anyway - only its Ukraine. 
« Last Edit: March 09, 2005, 06:32:00 AM by Bruce »
"A word is dead when it is said, some say.  I say it just begins to live that day."  Emily Dickinson

Offline Elen

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Russia vs Ukraine
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2005, 06:52:39 AM »
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Now, Ukraine hates to be thought of as a large State or worse as a Russian territory ie
 Let's they return our Crym at first:?

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« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2005, 06:52:39 AM »

Online Son of Clyde

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« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2005, 07:28:32 AM »
Bruce, I have met the girl it is only a matter of time until she is here. The papers were sent in Monday so I am thinking July. I just don't know if there is a big difference in these two countries and most people seem to prefer one or the other. My fiance is Ukrainian and I have been to the Ukraine three times and Latvia once. Never been to Russia.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2005, 07:29:00 AM by Son of Clyde »

Offline Bruce

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Russia vs Ukraine
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2005, 07:53:26 AM »
Clyde, thats what I thought ie. you have a girl with a young child coming here soon.  I figured I would reply in the event things fell apart for you or you just thought a thread on the country differences issue would be a good one to start.  Continued good luck.:)
"A word is dead when it is said, some say.  I say it just begins to live that day."  Emily Dickinson

Offline Albert

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« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2005, 07:58:34 AM »
Elen, remember that Ukraine did not 'take' Krym.  It was 'given' to Ukraine by Kruschev.  And within past 2 years or so, Russian congress passed law or resolution (or some such) disavowing any intention to 'retake' Krym.

Offline Albert

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« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2005, 08:15:43 AM »
For the original question, there are at lease two aspects when thinking of Russia and Ukraine.

First is the 'administrative' aspects of how easy it is to get into and out of the country to search for your lady.  In this case, Ukraine wins hands down . . . . it isn't even a close contest.  Ukraine gives to most anybody 6 month visa, vs 30 day visa for Russia.  This alone makes planning trip to Ukraine much easier since don't have to worry about matching up exact visa dates for airplane flights and can find the best price deals.  In addition, many of us can get 3 to 5 year multi entry visas to Ukraine for very little cost increase.  It is very, very hard to get anything over 30 day visa to Russia, and those who do get the 1 year business visa to Russia pay something like 5 times as much as for a 5 year visa to Ukraine.  Then, there is the hassle of registration for the Russia visa vs no registration for the Ukraine visa.  Sure, I know that Russian hotels register the visa with very little hassle . . . . if you are staying there.  But most of us who go for extended periods of time rent apartments.  That adds an extra hassle to the registration process in Russia.  Yes, yes, it can be done, but it can be completely avoided by going to Ukraine.

Second consideration is any difference between the Russian and Ukrainian women you will meet.  Here you must be very carefull in giving experiences because it is not always clear whether the woman is ethnically Russian or Ukrainian.  Can't go by where they are living as there has been historically quite a bit of moving around.  Also, there are tons of women who have one parent Russian and one parent Ukrainian, so who is to say what they are.

Still there are some generalities.  Like in all areas of the world, there are some differences in temperment when moving from north to south.  Southern peoples are usually a bit more friendly and also a bit more volatile.  What is you choice?  There are also some differences in height and skin coloring.  Northerners are somewhat taller and lighter.  Then there is the aspect of perceived superiority of the person.  Russians generally perceive themself to be superior to Ukrainians.  Ukrainians, of course, do not agree, but they have to live with this and it affects them somewhat.

Now with any generalities there are always exceptions so spare us the examples.  Of course you can find a short, dark, hot tempered gal in St. Petersburg and a tall, blond, quiet gal in Ukraine.

After all is said and done, I personally have not found any great differences between the Russian and Ukrainian women that I have met in many of the FSU countries.

There is however a profound difference between the Ukrainian and Russian women compared to the native population in the Baltic States, for example.

Offline Bruno

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Russia vs Ukraine
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2005, 08:17:12 AM »
Elena, let stop these fight between Russia and Ukraine...

About Crimea, i have find a historic map from 1723... you can see the real Russia... sorry but it is more little that now... and Crimea was not russian...



Offline Elen

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« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2005, 09:14:59 AM »
Quote
Elen, remember that Ukraine did not 'take' Krym.  It was 'given' to Ukraine by Kruschev.  .

Yes exactly, with couple adds - Kruschev was Ukraine and that "decision"  was not legial according Soviets law. And now some politic at Ukraine try to blame Russian for that gift - Russians have done that on propose just for give Ukraine a pain in one "place" about tatars problem:D:D
Quote
And within past 2 years or so, Russian congress passed law or resolution (or some such) disavowing any intention to 'retake' Krym

It does not change the main point
Quote
Elena, let stop these fight between Russia and Ukrainу[/color][/color][/color] 

Фигз два! (not translated :P)

Why don't post also a history what it costed for us to make Crym a part of Russian Impire?  And actually we never start such fight it's Ukraine who used to blame Russian for anything

Also there were not such "country" as Ukraine until Russian presented them MaloRossia. (the georgaphy of what Russian territories passes to Ukraine you may figurate out taking a look at the result of the last elections. Almost non-orange territories were Russian)

 

 

 

Offline Fiorella

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Russia vs Ukraine
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2005, 09:31:14 AM »
Quote from: Bruno
Elena, let stop these fight between Russia and Ukraine...

About Crimea, i have find a historic map from 1723... you can see the real Russia... sorry but it is more little that now... and Crimea was not russian...


That time Ukraine didn't exist at all.

Offline Bruno

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« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2005, 10:57:14 AM »
From a Ukrainian site...

The first time people speak about Ukraine, it was around 1667... it was a autonome province from the russian empire named "sloboda ukraine" who is around the north half of the actual ukraine...

The south half was from the ottoman empire and named "crimea Khanate"

For a lot about history of ukraine, visit http://sumy.net.ua/?p=1 ... below these page, you can find several historic map... for the text, use your translator...

On a western site, at http://gbgm-umc.org/country_profiles/country_history.cfm?Id=176 , i have find other information ???

"The Ukrainians emerged, as an identifiable people, in the 15th century. Their name was derived from krai, meaning border, which in 1213 was the name given to the territories along the Polish border."

"In March 1654, Ukrainian autonomy within the Russian Empire was ratified."

"Ukraine's autonomy was abolished at the end of the 18th century"

Fiorella, i think you have wrong... sorry :cool:

Offline Fiorella

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« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2005, 11:42:10 AM »
Bruno, you know, ukrainians now creating new history - next step will to say that Ukraine is a homeland of elephants as we use to say. I said, the independent country Ukraine never existed. In different times it was Kiev Russ, then part of Russian Impire, part of Poland etc.

Offline Leslie

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« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2005, 11:53:12 AM »
I can't let this go on any longer :shock:

First Question Clyde is your Fiance Ukrainian or Russian??

In the east of Ukraine (e.g. Donetsk,  Lugansk) the majority of the population are ethnic Russian and Russian is the majority language. In the west (e.g. Lviv) the people are Ukrainian and Ukrainse is the language

My wife is from the west of Ukraine and is Ukrainian.  Only Ukrainian is spoken (although Russian is understood) at home.  ALL school teaching is in Ukrainian.  Teachers who only spoke Russian were fired a long time ago. In general a mixture of Russian and Ukrainse is spoken on the streets.

One of my best friends - Sergei lives in Sevastopil - It really is a Russian town and he feels discriminated against because he is Ukrainian!!

A word of warning this is a hot issue voicing opinions like either Bruce's or Ellen's in public - say in a disco bar in the west of Ukraine at the moment could get you into a whole heap of trouble.  Be reticent after all it is not your politics...

 

 

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« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2005, 11:53:12 AM »

Offline Bruno

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« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2005, 12:29:45 PM »
All right... for the history of Russia, visit http://www.friesian.com/russia.htm ...

I think that the problem between russian and ukraine are because Kiev was the first capital from russia :shock:...

"While the Ukraine (or "Lesser Russia") has only emerged in the modern world as a fully independent state with the breakup of the Soviet Union in 1991, its capital, Kiev, is the original capital of historic Russia. Early Russian history may therefore be said to have really been Ukrainian history." :P

"During the Russian Revolution and Civil War three national Ukrainian governments existed:  (1) The Central Rada (Council), led by Mykhailo Hrushevsky, (2) the "Hetman Monarchy" of Pavlo Skoropadsky, supported by the Germans, and (3) the 5 member Directory, led by Simon Petliura."

Leslie, i think that the two side of ukraine ( east / west ) are more religious... catholic and orthodox... Galina is more for the russian spirit but she feel herself first a Ukrainian woman...

And guys, if you don't like politic, don't marry a woman from FSU... no one place in the world, i have see woman who have so much interest in politic...

Online Son of Clyde

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« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2005, 01:30:04 PM »
Leslie, I only wanted to get opinions about cultural issues not incite political arguments. My fiance is Russian from Simferopol.

Offline wxman

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« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2005, 01:51:27 PM »
Pretty evident why wars occur. People in every country can go back in history and say that land in another country use to belong to us, so we want it back. The current borders must be respected by all nations. We may not like it, but such is life. Too much greed will be the downfall of all.   
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting that vote." Benjamin Franklin -

Online Turboguy

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« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2005, 01:53:57 PM »
Darn, I thought the Rebels vs the Yankees was bad enough.  

Offline Bruno

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Russia vs Ukraine
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2005, 02:09:27 PM »
Clyde, wxman, turbo... and other guys...

I was begin tired to listen that russian woman was the best and all the ukrainian woman are bad... since the origin of russia are from kiev, i don't see a lot of difference between woman...

I see more difference in function of the size of city... big city, more modern... in function of north / south.... more south, more friendly but more impulsif... etc... but again, it is only very very general meaning...

FSU is so big that you can always find shoes to your foot... Russia and ukraine have a very long shared past... and the woman are not very different... you need only choice the good one for yourself and don't take care of the geographie... you wish marry a woman, not a nationality...

Offline wxman

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« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2005, 03:26:43 PM »
I agree with you Bruno. Good words.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting that vote." Benjamin Franklin -

 

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