trip soon. any advises appreciated

[poseidon514]

Hi all,

I am going to Sumy very soon and planning to meet some women there. They confirmed to meet me upon my arrival, but because I will be there next week, we didn't have e-mail exchange.

A bit about me: I am 31/ moderate muslim with european life style/ a bit fat (but not SRM)/ open to my business soon / pre-intermediate level of russian / living in QC, Canada (french part) / degree of engineering

I would appreciate your opinions about my following concerns:

1. What age gap should be best for me? I am planning to go with 21-26 group.

2. My social circle is limited here since I am rather new immigrant. Then, when (and if) I bring someone here, it might be difficult for her to establish social surroundings together instead of finding already established friends circle...

3. Is it possible that some of following may be a problem for UW?
a. No work for now. Although I have enough asset to establish one, it doesn't guarantee that it will work well. Everything is possible in commerce
b. Although I am not religious, and I don't expect her to convert (but I expect my future childen consider them as muslim), islam has a bad image for now because of some stupid fanatics.

4. I am not looking for a maid, but I was grown up in a conservative circle, and I would intend to consider households as rather "woman work". Of course, I am not so naive to believe everything I read. In many profils, they stated that they LIKE cooking, household, etc... Obviously, agency must have involved and tell them what to write and what not to. Then, what is the reality? What can I expect?

5. Tips: How much should I give tip to interpreter for "better work"? daily? or after 3 weeks? Should I also give tip to driver (Kiev-Sumy) how much? I am not familiar with this so this question may sound weird, but I don't want to give too much / too little

6. Should I present a gift to each of them when we meet first time (Please note that we didn't have any kind of former communication) If so, what kind of present would be best?

7. Any additional suggestions that you may give? Anyone who has first-hand experience in Sumy to tell meabout situation there? I want to stay there for some months if I meet someone in this trip. However, it only can be between novembre-february. The weather will not be very nice, I assume.

Thanks for all comments.

[catzenmouse]

First off, Welcome to RWD!

 Your questions and belief system could be quite a concern for a FSUW. Many who have seen the violence over the past few decades that is Muslim related would easily tell you that they have no interest in you just for that fact. Your age range is fine but don't rule out the 26-30 range either.

 I would say that you need to be very up front with anyone you communicate with about your beliefs and expectations in a partner. Otherwise you will probably waste a lot of their time and of yours as well.

 A first gift on meeting (if you choose to give one) should be something small and maybe Canadian related. A sampler pack of Maple candy/syrup or something along those lines. I'd also keep the tip(s) smaller to start with and see how the service it. If the service is bad the tip is small or nothing. You'll have to play that one by ear.

Good Luck!
Ken

[BC]

If I understood correctly you are or soon will be opening a business.  If so trying to mingle a RW in the mix before the business is stable is probably looking for trouble in a major way.

I say this because keeping my already existing business alive while dating/marrying my wife was tough enough.

Best to get your business up and running beforehand.

FWIW

[prince_alfie]

Privet!

I am glad to see you here finally. You will be getting more sober responses than from the dark side which we can't talk about.

I agree that being Muslim (and requesting your children be inured in it) will be somewhat of an uphill battle. But despite the negatives, I would suggest putting a positive spin on the whole thing. Okay, even if most of the RW reject you that will make your search easier. It's a similar problem to my being Asian. Of course, there is definitely one suggestion: I wouldn't try St. Petersburg at all to be honest. I heard (vicariously) that the racism and very problematic xenophobia is rampant so it probably wouldn't be worth your time.

I would suggest using freepersonals.ru . Why? Because there are Russian expatriates living all over the world. Give a shot in Japan, in some of the "stans", in US and Canada even! Of course, be honest about your intentions in the first letter. Yes, I know that it will be hard but well worth it. In fact, even if you have to write like 5000 letters to find one who will choose it, definitely do it!

Thinking positively is the most important thing. If you come across as being skeptical and lack self-confidence then women will be more turned off by that than the fact that you're Muslim. I would like to express my admiration for going against the grain and not walking in the usual path. You will be happy and blessed for it, I am sure!

C'est la! 

[PeeWee]

First off, Welcome to RWD!

 Your questions and belief system could be quite a concern for a FSUW. Many who have seen the violence over the past few decades that is Muslim related would easily tell you that they have no interest in you just for that fact. Your age range is fine but don't rule out the 26-30 range either.

 I would say that you need to be very up front with anyone you communicate with about your beliefs and expectations in a partner. Otherwise you will probably waste a lot of their time and of yours as well.

 A first gift on meeting (if you choose to give one) should be something small and maybe Canadian related. A sampler pack of Maple candy/syrup or something along those lines. I'd also keep the tip(s) smaller to start with and see how the service it. If the service is bad the tip is small or nothing. You'll have to play that one by ear.

Good Luck!
Ken

To add to what my esteemed friend has said, go with an opened mind. Tell her your plan and then let the chips fall where they may. I did learn while I was in Egypt recently that some RW are indeed attracted to Arab men. If they have an attraction to Arab men then they too can have an attraction to Canadian men, American men, European men, Muslim, Christian, Atheist...etc. Again, be open in your mind.

I might suggest that you read up on a few of the traditional basics. 11 or 13 flowers. The good luck champagne toast for your first meeting and then remember to set the empty bottle on the floor and not the table. And all else that falls into that realm.

Maybe realize that if you are to meet a woman that FSU are not always the greatest about being on time. Try to meet with those that do speak English. By doing so you will eliminate two problems.

peevee

[Jack]

Hey Poseidon.

Poseidon I'm going to give you one man's opinion. And that's is all this is, just one man's opinion.

And in my opinion there is no sense in trying to sugar-coat the situation. There is a great amount of prejudice with a great majority of Russian/Ukraine women towards Muslim's and men from the middle east.  Now I will say as you head further east, east of the Ural mountains you will find more ladies who are willing to accept and in fact are Muslim.

In Western Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, the Baltic's, your going to find a higher degree of prejudice. Therefore it is also my opinion, and what I suggest to all minorities of which there is any degree of prejudice, run newspaper ads. Run them, run, them, run them. Write and see ladies who will and do accept you.

[prince_alfie]

Agreed. Yep, just be fairly aggressive wherever you search despite the odds. You only need to find one RW! 

[docetae]

Bonjour !

Je vais repondre en Francais ... je suis immigré moi aussi au Quebec, age similaire (32), par contre ma recherche etait sur des criteres totalement differents (tranche d'age 26-30) et qui travaille. J'ai rencontré en mars dernier une jeune femme de 28 ans et depuis j'ai passé la frontière Ukrainienne deux autres fois pour la revoir, tout semble bien s'annoncer ...

- Si tu y vas maintenant, tu vas perdre ton argent. Attends d'etre installé au Quebec, d avoir un revenu stable avant de faire quoique ce soit. L'immigration et l integration ici sont déjà assez difficile pour que tu te rajoutes une charge financière...(voyages, couts de communications, etc)
- Tu vas avoir droit a tous les prejuges que tu peux imaginer a propos de ta religion. Le racisme la bas est vraiment existant et ouvert et les prejuges tenaces.
- Mefies toi serieusement , tu seras vu comme un portefeuille sur pattes, evite les services des agences et utilise des interpretes independants.

Par curiosité, tu utilises quelle agence ?

Si tu as des questions n'hesite pas.

Doc.

[Manny]

Hey Poseidon.

Poseidon I'm going to give you one man's opinion. And that's is all this is, just one man's opinion.

And in my opinion there is no sense in trying to sugar-coat the situation. There is a great amount of prejudice with a great majority of Russian/Ukraine women towards Muslim's and men from the middle east.  Now I will say as you head further east, east of the Ural mountains you will find more ladies who are willing to accept and in fact are Muslim.

In Western Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, the Baltic's, your going to find a higher degree of prejudice. Therefore it is also my opinion, and what I suggest to all minorities of which there is any degree of prejudice, run newspaper ads. Run them, run, them, run them. Write and see ladies who will and do accept you.

I agree!

This chap has been given the same advice, phrased in different ways, elsewhere. And Alfie before him whan he was new. Alfie took it on board quite quickly, this chap has mentioned that he is happy with a non muslim woman but made it a condition that his future children were brought up Muslim. I suggested that he was on a more uphill battle in this regard and for some reason, if I recall, this man had an aversion to the Stans?

[Maverick Mikey]

I agree!

This chap has been given the same advice, phrased in different ways, elsewhere. And Alfie before him whan he was new. Alfie took it on board quite quickly, this chap has mentioned that he is happy with a non muslim woman but made it a condition that his future children were brought up Muslim. I suggested that he was on a more uphill battle in this regard and for some reason, if I recall, this man had an aversion to the Stans?

Surely the stans are the best port of call for this chap..bearing in mind the nature of the mindset of the women in the western half of the FSU

[beattledog]

I think one  item that will hurt you is your religon.  Have you considered converting to her religon, when you find her?  Many women have no desire to marry a Muslin  man.  This is just the fact of reality , in the world, that we live in today


Beattledog

[SANDRO43]

- Mefies toi serieusement , tu seras vu comme un portefeuille sur pattes

Doc, j'aime bien cela, et pas mal en anglais, aussi : a WALKING WALLET .

[prince_alfie]

I disagree. His religion is fine... it will be the woman's fault if she doesn't like him for who he is!

[docetae]

Doc, j'aime bien cela, et pas mal en anglais, aussi : a WALKING WALLET .

Yes, this is the feeling I get the first time I went to Ukraine, This is my second motivation to learn Russian....

[catzenmouse]

I disagree. His religion is fine... it will be the woman's fault if she doesn't like him for who he is!

Alfie,

 Your posts really make me wonder if the synapses are firing at all in there.
 
 His religion, like yours, is not fine or bad, it is what it is. An extra challenge for him to find a FSUW. There is a long history of distrust with areas of Muslim influence and the broader areas of the FSU. Thus there is a natural inclination to mistrust/dislike/not be interested in a Muslim man. This mistrust (and misunderstanding) may not always be accurate or even have a full basis in fact but it is real and it is an obstacle to face.

 Also please tell me, how is it the woman's fault? She has been a lot closer to the Muslim world and its influence her whole life than you have? What is it that gives you the right to judge her or her belief system? Doesn't she have a choice to not consider a Muslim man?

 She may have had friends or family who fought in Afghanistan or Chechnya. Someone she loved may be dead or have serious physical or mental problems because of these conflicts. Is that her fault that she has seen the results of the issues involving radical Muslim violence and does not want to have anything to do with this type of man?

 Poseidon has already said that he wants any future children to be raised Muslim. Would it not make more sense to look to the more Muslim friendly/accepting areas of the FSU? If he goes against that advice then his religion will make it harder (maybe much harder) to find a wife. This is not rocket science or even Lego science. It is common sense. Try it sometime, you may find that it works wonders for you.

Ken

[prince_alfie]

I agree with you that the cultural factors will be a big role but I find that if everyone lumps together into the same category then it should not be so.

In fact, posedion will not be lumped with those radical Muslims. He already explicated his position as such. Of course, it's up to the woman to see that he isn't part of that fanatical bunch but a different guy all together.

It's an individual thing. Just like Romeo and Juliet. You don't have to believe the predominance of your own culture necessarily. That's why there are those who are unorthodox and/or rebels. We are all human in our own way!

[Turboguy]

I will agree with Ken.  It is what it is and just like someone who is tall or short or bald he needs to find a gal who will accept that.   Not everyone will, but yes, some will.  I could see him having more risk of getting a GCG than most.  Just like an older guy chasing younger gals does face in increased risk of that. 

To me it is a bit like deciding you want to try your hand at mountain climbing and deciding to start with the north face of Mt Everest.   

Yes, he can probably find some kind of gal in Sumy that will be happy to be his gal. It will take some searching and disappointment.   If he decided to go to one of the stans he would have prettier and nicer gals fighting to get him.  He would have to beat them off with a club.  He seems to want a non Muslim gal, he could even find that easier there because they live with it every day and realize that many Muslim are great people and not all of them want to fly planes into the sides of buildings. 

Just like PG and I had to learn things the hard way, that may be the case here.  I wish you well on your trip and hope you are asking about the Fiancee visa process soon.

[jb]

*sigh*  Poseidon,

Listen to Jack, he knows of which he speaks.  To say your religion will be a non-issue is faulty advice.  To many white Christian women it will be a huge issue.  To an atheist woman, who has been raised to not believe in God, it will be a huge issue to suddenly have to live in a house where worship is a 5 times a day routine.  To suggest that it will be a woman's fault for not accepting it, is just plain crazy nonsense.    Women have the right to pick and choose who they want to marry,,, and they will.  If having any future children raised in the Islamic faith is a non-negotiable condition of marriage for you, I suggest you forego your upcoming trip and begin a concentrated letter writing campaign to single out a few women who would be content with these conditions.  Only after finding some women who are conducive to this; plan your trip to see those specific women.  There would be little profit in going to Russia to meet with agency women who are going to reject your marriage offer, either because they didn't find you physically attractive, or your personality, or your religious based marriage conditions.  If you do this you are going to suffer a lot of rejection during the 1st hour of the 1st date.  You have a lot going against you, your failure to recognize this is only going to breed heartbreak and disappointment.   You will have spent a lot of money and time for nothing. 

Recently there was some speculation here regarding Turkish women, and all who commented were favorably impressed with their charm and beauty.  In looking through some of the MOB agency catalogs which deal with the 'Stans, I have seen many stunningly beautiful girls pictured there.  Frankly speaking, I think a man in your position would be more comfortable with a woman from a culture that was more familiar with the dictates of your religion.

I further strongly suggest you pay more attention to those men who have actually spent some time on the ground in the FSU and have some better understanding of the Russian people and culture, rather than those who have never been there and are apt to tell you what they think you want to hear.

[PeeWee]

Why are you not looking in countries or areas where there are stong Muslim communities. Georgia for example.

Peevee

[SANDRO43]

Alfie, Your posts really make me wonder if the synapses are firing at all in there.

Apparently not, Ken :  he sould seek some counselling, but IMHO not here on RWD, which he seems to consider a free-riding psycho's couch where he can blithely pour out any random firing of his neurons, without paying a fee and with a total disregard for the utter boredom he is causing . Witness a recent post of his elsewhere :

Indeed, mental health is important for sure! Of course, the only problem is if you are loony yourself, then that would pose a problem ?(p.s. Got bipolar and ADD so I have to ask...)

Does that make ANY sense ?

[docetae]

Turboguy, Why I advise him to not do this trip is because he is just a new emmigrant in Canada. As I have been one too around 10 years ago, that a lot of my friends are emmigrant too, I can say that for a lot of people who come here with not a lot of money and no work, there are already too much conflicting feelings during your first years in Canada. Canadian society is very different from US and even Quebec society is different from Canada ... It take time to learn how to insert yourself here.

You know nobody and you want to find someone to break this loneliness. So my advise for Poseidon is to get everything rock stable first here before looking for someone abroad. He is a new emmigrant, he has no job, he wants to start a company and look for a woman ? Too many things at one time. He will just loose his time , his money and will go directly to the Burnout.

[jb]

WRT Poseidon, I was completely unaware that a parallel thread was proceeding on the *other* board until T/G mentioned it in another thread.  If I had been aware of that thread, I'd have never made a post here.  I see a classic case of him not getting the answers he wants there, so he decides to try his luck here.  I find that more than somewhat duplicitious.  I've just finished reading that thread and I do not see him being unduely shredded, he got good answers and he has displayed little good common sense.  Rather like PG, he's determined to plow ahead with his train wreck.

Dan, rather than see this thread degenerate further, as it's bound to do, might I suggest you have a quick review of the thread on the *other* board, and if you agree it serves no useful purpose, close this one down.  Failing that, I would urge the members here to simply boycott this thread and let it die a natural death.

This will be my last post on the topic.

[poseidon514]

BC: If I understood correctly you are or soon will be opening a business.  If so trying to mingle a RW in the mix before the business is stable is probably looking for trouble in a major way.

I think that regular family life would help to increase the possibility of success, but it is only my opinion, of course. Besides, I am planning to take a second trip for nearly 3 months in case I meet someone special in this trip. Living together would give both of us better idea about compatibility. If I open business first, can I go there for 3 months? or even for a month?

Peewee: Try to meet with those that do speak English.

I will meet more than 10 women there and unfortunately their English ability is generally 1/5 or 2/5. I consider my Russian as 2/5, and probably it will increase to 3/5 if I stay there for some months (potential second trip)

Jack: There is a great amount of prejudice with a great majority of Russian/Ukraine women towards Muslim's and men from the middle east

I have some prejudice towards people of middle east, too. Don’t consider me “racist”. Believe me I have many reasons for that. As you understand, I am not one of them, I am European. Women who agreed to meet me already know that I am muslim. I told them I am very moderate in my letter. (Only one woman refused to meet me and I don’t know if her reason is religion). I stated that my life style is European, I don’t want my future wife to convert or wear Islamic-style clothes, etc…. Because I didn’t want to write whole letter with the explanation of religion, I didn’t say anything else. Here is more about my approach to my religion.
I have a communist background and I am socialist now. You can easily deduce that I am not religious. I am non-practising, but I believe the God and I believe that Christians/jews and muslims believe in this same God. (For someone who don’t know much about islam: We believe not only to Mohammed but to Jesus and Abraham as well. However, Jesus is just a prophet for us –like Mohammed- and not God’s son)
Actually, children’s religion would not be very important for me, but –as far as I know-, it is a big sin to allow them growing up in another religion. I tried to find out ifit is true, but I didn’t find the answer so far. That’s why I want them to consider themselves as muslim.

Docetae :  Si tu y vas maintenant, tu vas perdre ton argent. Attends d'etre installé au Quebec, d avoir un revenu stable avant de faire quoique ce soit. L'immigration et l integration ici sont déjà assez difficile pour que tu te rajoutes une charge financière...(voyages, couts de communications, etc)

I am new immigrant, but I have been living in Quebec for 4 years.

Maverick Mikey: Surely the stans are the best port of call for this chap

As I mentioned above, my life style is not Islamic and don’t forget that I learned Russian because I admired to their literature. Although RW/UW are not muslim, I believe that I would have more in common with them than women whose only common feature are their religion. By the way, russian literature is not the only reason of course! I can mention many others: Politics, culture, etc…

Turboguy: I could see him having more risk of getting a GCG than most

Don’t you think living together for 3 months is a good way to decrease this possibility even if it is almost impossible to eliminate completely?

Jb: it will be a huge issue to suddenly have to live in a house where worship is a 5 times a day routine.

I answered this above. By the way, I didn’t even remember the last time I worshipped.

Jb: WRT Poseidon, I was completely unaware that a parallel thread was proceeding on the *other* board until T/G mentioned it in another thread

I asked this question in another forum, but someone turned into something else with racist comments like… “Your religion is very bloody” “It is the less credible religion” “You are not civilised” etc… Then the thread continued for a while with racist comments on islam and my answers. However, I realised that these guys just don’t want to understand, so I just decided not to answer any more and I asked the same question here.

[BillyB]

I just got done reading the thread elsewhere. I would've originally recommended Poseidon going to the Stans since the people there aren't hard practicing Muslims since Communism previously stamped out religion/removed God the best they could, but I read Poseidon is a hard line Communist. Most people there may not like his political position since they aren't a fan of the U.S.S.R. Poseidon, you need to be upfront in letters with women on your position in religion and politics, if they can't accept your view on how life should be through letters, there is no sense visiting them.

The ticket is already bought to Ukraine. Be honest with the women you meet, chances are you won't find success on this trip but hopefully you'll understand what the majority has been saying. It would be a great asset if you understand your limitations of finding a suitable candidate for marriage based on the fact there aren't many Communist Muslims. To think about having a successful marriage, you must find a woman with similiar views.

[poseidon514]

BillyB: Most people there may not like his political position since they aren't a fan of the U.S.S.R. Poseidon, you need to be upfront in letters with women on your position in religion and politics

Neither my religion nor my political views have an important role on my lifestyle. I just vote for left-wing parties during elections and that's it.