new to RWD, married to AM for 24 years, trying to match make for my young friend

[olgac]

In her first few years here in USA, my wife would say to me how disappointed she was that no one at the University complimented her on her dress attire, looks, etc. as she had enjoyed in Ukraine.

I kept telling her how they would get in trouble if they did.

Now she has accepted it and doesn't complain any more.

I see. Being a programmer I have always worked with a lot of Russian men, so I never had this problem
To give You one extreme example, one time when I was already in my early 40s, I worked with a very funny
Russian guy Vova who was like 27. He was constantly flirting with women! I remember when some young woman
applied for an internship, he and the other guys checked out her social media what she looked like.

One time Vova borrowed my tea cup and didn't wash it! When I complained he said very loudly so everyone can hear
"How about I LICK IT CLEAN for your, Olga? I do a very good job!"

This was all in English BTW. Vova came to US as a teen

And nobody ever got into trouble, Vova is now a director of Engineering

[Trenchcoat]

It depends on what the man looks like!
There was a comic about harassment at work, where a geeky guy tells a coworker her dress looks nice and she is like "I will call HR"
then the tall and handsome coworker says the sawm thing and she is all "awww thank You" and blushing

When I was at work I enjoyed all compliments even from unattractive men and women

Lol, I've often thought the same thing. If Harvey Weinstein had looked like Brad Pitt he wouldn't be rotting in jail where he is now, those women accusers would be cooing about how wonderful he is.

The West has got kind of ridiculous and incredibly uptight about a lot of petty stuff, Luke the example of the female professor commenting on the heels of another female professor. It's just gotten to stupidity levels and is like some weird game of who can call out someone who has even transgressed these silly notions notions of what is appropriate for brownie points.

It's one of those things I don't like about the West and prefer the FSU where people can be more natural and not have to be concerned with all that crap. For sure I think the above video of the guy would probably only work if she found the guy attractive but would probably be taken better than in the West unless she found the guy very unattractive.

That's probably another thing for your friend to bear in mind that guys in the West are likely to be more cautious. Many guys might be cautious of what they say at work or making a move as if a Woman complains then their job might be on the line. Pat makes sind good points that here men have a lot to lose for getting with a woman and her having a babies. In the UK there are even men who if they own a house, etc they don't want to take the risk they would rather remain single but secure with accommodation rather than the woman going off with it all just because she had kids with him. I know a lot of FSW don't understand this that they think the risk is all on their side with having kids as it tends to be more that way in the FSU. In the West men can really have A LOT to lose and some prefer to duck it and not bother.

I think while your friend might not be into expensive brands, expensive holidays can sound just as bad to a guy hoping for a low maintenance woman. To a western guy it can look as, 'what does she want...' and a, 'Oh she wants that.' A lot of Western guys kind of want to feel that the woman is into them and it's not going to be a big shelling out of money experience in dating her. That she expects them to pay for the whole date or holidays probably isn't going to help matters, not many Western guys are up on how Slavic women date in the FSU. In the West to many men women that are seen are high maintenance, wanting stuff, a lot of money being spent on them can be seen as women to avoid, even to some extent bad woman. It can vary that sound guys still don't mind paying for stuff in the West but many do. That can be a source of awkwardness in dating with western men them trying to work out who pays for what lol.

To increase her appeal to men in the West it's probably best that she doesn't cling too heavily to the man pays thing or be offended if he doesn't as that can put if a lot of guys. I definitely think she needs to be a bit easier on her criteria and have it more as a general idea that may not be totally satisfied. If she cuts out too many men then she is just causing herself to be continually single and out of touch with what the dating market can really yield for her. She's kind of getting towards over the hill already so she's just consigning herself to singledom as being seen as too aloof for what she is, a girl whose aging past the prime dating age market.

I think one thing not gone into much yet is emotions and personality. It's fine having a theoretical criteria written up but when in the real world it's not always a purely facts & figures thing but whether there is natural chemistry, emotions and how we get in with that person. She could find a guy that ticks all the boxes but there just isn't any natural chemistry there, emotions, etc. So I would generally say leave a little of her criteria at home and just find someone she is into, that's probably going to be best for her long term than stuck in an unhappy relationship with a high earning guy paying of a mortgage on an expensive property and feeling increasingly there us little alternative that or being stuck single forever.

[ML]

he said very loudly so everyone can hear
"How about I LICK IT CLEAN for you, Olga? I do a very good job!"

And nobody ever got into trouble, Vova is now a director of Engineering

Fired for sure in most western companies.

[krimster2]

you wanna see beautiful Russian women?
go to a big bank in Russia, and do some high end transfers
you'll endup eventually in the "back office"

there you will see nothing but super models at the height of fashion
we are talking 9.5s here

and they are ALL SMILING at you....
cuz they know you're a rich foreigner

these were some of the most beautiful women I ever saw...
and YOU KNOW how they got their jobs, right?

[olgac]

Fired for sure in most western companies.

This was in Palo Alto, CA But a small startup.
I in general find that the software companies are much more relaxed and less official

[Trenchcoat]

you wanna see beautiful Russian women?
go to a big bank in Russia, and do some high end transfers
you'll endup eventually in the "back office"

there you will see nothing but super models at the height of fashion
we are talking 9.5s here

and they are ALL SMILING at you....
cuz they know you're a rich foreigner

these were some of the most beautiful women I ever saw...
and YOU KNOW how they got their jobs, right?

That's another important issue Krim, a guy with 'a hook' not like the pirates of days gone by but a guy with something he can use to bait women.

It could be looking wealthy, a gym bod or being good looking for example. Tinder is full of those guys and they know it attracts the lady, they get laid and then onto the next one. There not there for a serious commitment but a bit of sexual pleasure.

And I think that can potentially be a problem your friend may run into Olga. If she goes for guys that are in a very good income like herself i.e very wealthy guys they may just be interested in sex but not a serious commitment. Those wealthy guys know there are only so many of themselves around and that wealth attracts women. They also likely don't want a gold digger so the women that seem attracted to them for their wealth they will just use for sex, ditch them and move onto the next one.

[olgac]

Trenchcoat, I agree with what You wrote.
Regarding advances at work, this happens in US as well.
Even my friend get an interest from a 35 year old manager at work, and they even met outside work and texted a lot.
He is even 6 feet tall but overweight. He also said in marriage spouses both should contribute. So she stopped texting him 😊

So yes she is turning down a lot of good opportunities I think

[2tallbill]

He also said in marriage spouses both should contribute. So she stopped texting him 😊

So yes she is turning down a lot of good opportunities I think

Your mentee AND the fat potential boy friend don't know what they don't know.
He has no idea what she can do for him and she has no idea how to present
the benefits of having an actual FSU woman at his side and how that can
make him far more productive and what kind of contribution that can be.

If they have a child, is he going to be feeding, burping, changing a baby at 4 am?
Is he going to drive them all over the place for lessons, sports, dance recitals etc.?
Will he make a presentation with recently wiped up baby puke on his shirt? I did
this back when I had my old American wife.

Does he expect her to do all this AND ride him like a stallion AND keep the house
clean AND iron his shirts AND pay 50% of the bills? If so he is living in dreamy
imaginary land of pretty clouds and fluffy bunnies as well.

Getting ridden like a stallion then later having home made jam with cream cheese
inside my blini for breakfast is living the dream. That's what I have. 

[Trenchcoat]

Trenchcoat, I agree with what You wrote.
Regarding advances at work, this happens in US as well.
Even my friend get an interest from a 35 year old manager at work, and they even met outside work and texted a lot.
He is even 6 feet tall but overweight. He also said in marriage spouses both should contribute. So she stopped texting him 😊

So yes she is turning down a lot of good opportunities I think

That's silly, he's almost right on the money for what she wants. Weight unlike height is something that can be changed. If she got him on a reasonable diet a lot of that weight would fall away. I'm not talking a real low calorie diet here just a few low calorie options that he wouldn't find too bad to replace a few high calorie options, for example Seafood, Chicken, etc are great low calorie foods. On a 6 foot tall frame he would start to look thinner pretty fast, a 6 foot tall frame can hide a fair amount of fat as it spreads it out more usually making it less noticeable unless really overweight.

That's the problem with being too picky though that it can lead to sillyness of turning down a guy (or girl) just because he is out on one criteria. A stupid thing to do especially if starting to get on a bit in age for the mainstream dating market.

The in marriage both spouses should contribute and should regard that as an opening offer in negotiations not the final deal. It's something she could talk over more with him. Perhaps she could take a more enjoyable job in less money but still contribute, perhaps she could contribute in other ways, perhaps he might change his mind over time, etc, etc. She needs to look at it from his perspective as well as her own. He likely doesn't want to feel like he is being used, is with a lazy woman that wishes to dump all on him and then have a leisurely day while he's working he's ass off, etc.

Such a guy will likely have other women gain interest who will see that there are just one or two negatives they can work with and end up with a great situation for themselves. If she ends up forever single she's going to be stuck working for herself anyway at least being with a wealthy guy she may be able to do less of what she loathes. Many people don't like work so it's not necessarily a joy for the guy either.

So I think a bit of being realistic is probably what your friend needs. She needs to realise that age wise she's getting close to the limit of being over the hill even though it may not feel like it at the moment.

[olgac]

Does he expect her to do all this AND ride him like a stallion AND keep the house
clean AND iron his shirts AND pay 50% of the bills? If so he is living in dreamy
land as well.

Not sure, maybe he just doesn't think he has enough money without wife's contribution?
If that's the case, he might not think the obvious advantages of a homemaker are worth it.

[olgac]

That's silly, he's almost right on the money for what she wants. Weight unlike height is something that can be changed. If she got him on a reasonable diet a lot of that weight would fall away.

yes my point exactly! But she said she is not attracted to him physically and wouldn't be able to have sex with him.
This is not the only guy she rejected. I guess I can't really say "close Your eyes and think of England"
If she is not attracted, she is not attracted. And yes this is a problem because whoever she is attracted to will be harder and harder to find

[ML]

This was in Palo Alto, CA But a small startup.
I in general find that the software companies are much more relaxed and less official.

Yes, but more and  more  companies of all types are running into problems in this situation every week/month that goes by.

Read about huge shake up at FDIC recently with forced departure of head guy.
And several of the largest Wall Street firms also paying big money to settle lawsuits.

CEO at Boeing was forced out a few years ago for exchanging sexy (consensual) messages with a rather senior female exec.

- - - - - -

On another front, a friend of mine owns a small manufacturing firm with around 30 employees.

One assembly line gal was a lesbian and she kept hitting on a new young gal.

He went to the lesbo and told her to knock it off or hit the road (even as she was a very productive and reliable long term employee).

[krimster2]

When I lived in Ukraine,
Ukrainian women would bake me cookies so I would have sex with them!!!

they didn't  know it,
and I would NEVER tell them,
that I would "BE GLAD TO HAVE SEX WITH THEM" without the cookies!!!

what a great country Ukraine was pre-war
a land of abundance, quantity as well as quality

Russia isn't bad, as long as you have a patron "PAY-TRON" to protect you so the Russians don't "trade you" for a Russian money launderer...
now days, "bizness" is hard, because there's almost no money in Russia now, except for Rubles that NOBODY wants

[olgac]

I just searched for her nick: Doll since she always uses it on all forums and here she is looks like she was arguing a lot with you guys
I heard she has been divorced for a long time, but I don't really keep in touch with her.
Her story on that RW forum was very famous back in early 2000s

[ML]

Yes Doll was very argumentative and didn't like we men who were romancing FSU women.

[olgac]

Yes Doll was very argumentative and didn't like we men who were romancing FSU women.

well if You knew her story You would have understood why. That's all I can say

[Trenchcoat]

Moscva Art Gallerys were a great place for meeting oligarch daughters

her biggest problem is it sounds like she doesn't have a very marketable job or education background
and that limits what she can earn on her own

most rich men I know are "not very nice" people
some I know are downright dangerous

if she focuses on money, she'll overlook the other things that might make her life really unhappy

she should focus on finding someone to have fun with
and go get an education that's worth something

and find a job that she like doing

that doesn't involve killing innocent people (this is why I'm retired now)
but hey, that's just me...

In the news recently:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0l8kj1p0ylo

My guess is that he did sell HP a duff company and fiddled the figures, then paid off the jury in the subsequent trial. HP didn't take to well to that and wanted to get back at him so as to not look weak least it encouraged others. The man was silly enough to be celebrating on a boat in the Mafia's back yard and they of course are now history. Tuff at the top as they say yet so many people so keen to be really rich.

Looks like another of theirs was knocked off in some racing 'accident' just days before. My guess is the investigators, media, etc will be paid off to tout around the storm as the cause but likely it was just the cover for it all.

[krimster2]

brings back memories

http://www.theguardian.com/fromthearchive/story/0,,1078193,00.html&q=Maxwell%27s_body_found_in_sea
I guess you all forgot who Gishane Maxwell's father was, and that he was a part of "Russian Intelligence" before she and Epstein used the same "business model"

it's easier "doing someone" this way, compared to suicide in prison
in Russia, it's even easier, you either have an accident while cleaning your gun or fall out the window
ain't nobody got time for Polonium or Novichok now, just hold their head underwater or give them a strong shove...

a lazy trip heading south on the Moscva river
with a helpful GRU officer, pointing out all the secret KGB burial grounds along the way
where all those "cosmopolitans" are buried from the 1930s

secret prisons, secret graves
lie hidden in the reeds
as it is above
so is it below


my estimation is, that if the Russian people rose up and toppled Putin and the oligarchs
they would lose MUCH less people than being Putin's Canon Fodder in Ukraine

Putin has already killed ANYONE who might lead an opposition against him - no leaders = no rebellion
his biggest fear is a spontaneous "Maidan" style of public protest escalating into a full rebellion, there are MANY examples in Russian history of this

this is why he keeps TIGHT control of the internet and has deployed troops to every major city, to guard against protests
any form of protest is OUTLAWED in Russia
people have been arrested and sent to prison for simply holding a blank sign

the number of Russian soldiers surrendering in Kursk instead of fighting is a REALLY bad sign for Putin
an OMINOUS one


my advice to Putin...
negotiate a "cease fire"
create a new class of oligarch from military officers and then purge old oligarchs
convert all industry to military
wait for the West's economy to collapse in the 2030s
invade Ukraine part II, but this time with no western weapons, just Russian ones
$profit

then have Ukrainians invade Moldova and Georgia

[Trenchcoat]

Ghislaine Maxwell always made me laugh how she didn't stay out of the US after Epstein. Would have been better for her to stay in France where shd had citizenship, sell her flat in Paris, get a decreet place out in the French countryside and lay low. Same with the woman that sold Matthew Perry the ketomine. She should have got rid of any drugs pronto, flush them down the toilet, pack up her stuff, end the rental on her LA house & fly back to the UK as quick as possible. Why people stand around peeing in the wind when some bad shit goes down they are linked too I'll never know

Anyway, the girl who is doing a so called 'good job' that she can't stand and would prefer a guy to be subjected to such a so called good job instead of herself is still cracking me up laughing

I think the thing is because so many men don't make the grade these days for what women want due to women doing what might have been their job or increased labour pool meaning lower wages a lot of us know we can't be totally upfront or we just wouldn't get a look in with women that may be into us. I think on that front it's just the way it is and not much can be done. Even if the men were totally upfront so very few if any would qualify on most dating sites with her criteria. It's just the way society has gone and the only way people can make sense of the disparity these days. I think she'll just have to try and work with what we've suggested and/or be prepared to not live the lifestyle she had hoped for. I don't think holding out in the vain hope that a rich guy who is white, 6ft tall, and not overweight is a good idea at all. The odds look remote and while there is never a never there is an almost impossible that will almost definitely never happen. It's probably better than she doesn't gamble her future happiness on the very slimmiest outside chance of winning out.

Odds are any rich dudes anywhere near that will probably just use her for sex anyway.

[ML]

I don't think holding out in the vain hope that a rich guy who is white, 6ft tall, and not overweight is a good idea at all. The odds look remote and while there is never a never there is an almost impossible that will almost definitely never happen. It's probably better than she doesn't gamble her future happiness on the very slimmiest outside chance of winning out.

I don't think her odds of getting the man she wants are that bad.

If she 'packages' herself well, she could do a lot better than she is doing now.

The package includes looks (make-up, hair styles, dress, etc.), character, becoming conversational in topics that men have, and drop any pessimestic outlook she has regarding men.

I think our Olga here will get her fixed up over time.

[ML]

Odds are any rich dudes anywhere near that will probably just use her for sex anyway.

Nothing out of the ordinary here except for the 'just' word.

Men have been getting into the panties of women for at least the last 100 years or so !!  :-)  If going back far enough, the women didn't even wear panties.

- - - - - - -

Reminds me of story a man was telling me when I was a young man.
His wife told him, in shock, that she had been talking to wife of another co-worker and this woman relayed that her husband wouldn't let her wear panties to bed.

Actually, intelligent women should know it is better for the health of 'the region' that they not wear panties to bed or even not wear at anytime possible.  An never wear anything other than cotton panties.

[krimster2]

picture yurself in a world of pure IMAGINATION
where 'ole Trench is a dashing Anglo Volunteer in Ukraine...
just make sure ya got a good camera for "the selfies"

The Plan
go to Ukraine near the front like Kherson
buy a few hundred pounds worth of groceries
find lonely babooshka to deliver food to
get lots of selfies
now go back to UK and use photos for fund raising to support you permantly doing this
if you do this, and need someone to "script" yur shows, I'm sure we could come to "some arrangement" that would be "mutually beneficial"

don't forget "the cat"

[2tallbill]

Not sure, maybe he just doesn't think he has enough money without wife's contribution?
If that's the case, he might not think the obvious advantages of a homemaker are worth it.

Childcare seriously eats into any income she would make AND you have strangers raising
your children. Children to be around people who LOVE them.

Your mentee, doesn't need a weak man who lacks confidence. If he doesn't think he can
make it in Reno, where will he ever succeed? Your girl needs to be able to articulate her
point(s) but if he can't see them together as a family then he might not be worth
additional efforts.

Tell your girl to NOT ASSUME that the guy knows anything. Walk him through it step by
step, detail by detail about what needs to happen to keep going down the path for
success as a man and for a family. She can start contributing to college funds
and retirements plans part time once the kids go to school.

[olgac]

Anyway, the girl who is doing a so called 'good job' that she can't stand and would prefer a guy to be subjected to such a so called good job instead of herself is still cracking me up laughing

I think the thing is because so many men don't make the grade these days for what women want due to women doing what might have been their job or increased labour pool meaning lower wages a lot of us know we can't be totally upfront or we just wouldn't get a look in with women that may be into us. I think on that front it's just the way it is and not much can be done. Even if the men were totally upfront so very few if any would qualify on most dating sites with her criteria. It's just the way society has gone and the only way people can make sense of the disparity these days. I think she'll just have to try and work with what we've suggested and/or be prepared to not live the lifestyle she had hoped for. I don't think holding out in the vain hope that a rich guy who is white, 6ft tall, and not overweight is a good idea at all. The odds look remote and while there is never a never there is an almost impossible that will almost definitely never happen. It's probably better than she doesn't gamble her future happiness on the very slimmiest outside chance of winning out.

Odds are any rich dudes anywhere near that will probably just use her for sex anyway.

I did tell her what You said that men also would love to not work if they could. To which she said that no men are different, they usually love their job. I then told her stories of my burned out and depressed male coworkers who shared with me how they wished they could just quit but would not tell their stay at home wives so they don’t scare them and told her that even if a person loves their profession there are always burnouts, bad bosses, plotting coworkers etc. Men are also people.

The problem with the type of men she wants is that every woman wants them including women much younger and women making more money. Lots of competition.

[olgac]

I don't think her odds of getting the man she wants are that bad.

I think our Olga here will get her fixed up over time.

Yes I am trying and she is a very attractive and young looking woman. 😊