A lesson learned, the hard way

[viking]

See the flame in my avatar? Judging by how I feel right now, that must have been the size that burned my ass.

I’m posting this in the newbie section so that others starting out will learn from my experience. Not that I am an expert here, and based upon what I am about to say, most likely far from it.

(Deep breath) (Swallow pride) (Be honest)

I went to SPB last May. Third trip to Russia. The reasons for going and what happened is a whole different story. Suffice to say I should never have even gotten on the plane. Some sting was mitigated by meeting some very nice people who became friends and I hope to see them again should I return.

My plan A was a crash and burn, literally within hours after landing. I did listen to some of you and had a plan B. This part went well, while I was there.

Enter the pro dater/master scammer. Not like a scammer who falls in love with you after 4 emails. We are talking about sheer cunning and perfect timing. Someone who is as slick as oil, a true professional. She reached out to me some weeks before I left. After a few brief emails, I mentioned I was going to her city and could we meet for some coffee or a drink, if I had the time. It was not my desire to actually make this happen. Sure, no problem. She was one third of plan B.

After plan A went south, and some rest, I called her and the two others and set up some dates. Lady one was nice, but zero chemistry. Lady two was better and we went out a few times, even having some dinner with her and her daughter. But I could see that this was not going to work either. We had a nice time and said goodbye.

Lady three was Alena. Beautiful, not too young (late 30’s), and quite a knockout. Charming as hell. Lunch at a nice but inexpensive place went well. “Would you like to get together again?” “Sure, how about tomorrow”. She drives to my flat; we talk and do some dinner. Again, nothing expensive. Great conversation, juices are flowing, we are getting along just great. Some kiss kiss and then she goes home.

Next day, I am informed that she had an accident on the way back to her flat, and would I come to see her at her place instead. Ok. No problem. Accidents do happen. Go to her place. Wow. Talk about an upscale apartment. Stainless steel appliances in the kitchen, heated floor in the bath. Hmmm. How did you afford this?  Her ex left her another place, she had a good job as a trainer in a gym with private clients (?), saved some money, sold the first place, bought this and spent some years fixing it up. Ok. Sounds reasonable. Spend quite a few hours there, looking at the family album, she made me cookies and tea, etc, etc….She casually mentions the accident and I casually ignore the comment. By the end of the evening, “I am her man”. (Pink going on red flag).

Last night in SPB, coming back from someplace else, I call her and she agrees to meet me at 2AM, in her pajamas, outside in the cold, just to say goodbye and give me a nice kiss to remember her by. I was a bit impressed.

Now I come home. Nice emails waiting for me about how was the trip, and am I safe and ok. She gave me her phone number before I left and we start to talk almost every day. After about 3 weeks of emails and calls, she brings up the accident again. By now I am starting to get ‘involved’, the photos are for my eyes only (nice, sexy, but not raunchy), her voice is captivating, the charm is just oozing, and I am hearing everything I want to hear. I hold my ground. She ‘understands’. She must work harder to pay her debt to the man she crashed into as well as her girlfriend’s car. $1,500 for him and $1,000 for her. Go forward a few more weeks, and she informs me that she got a job at a kid’s camp that pays more money, but at the same time, she is not feeling well. Back up a few steps. She was using an inhaler when I was there, so this did not seem out of line. (Don’t go there, I know, inhalers can be empty, but this shows to go ya to the extent on how this scheme is being set up).

Now comes the hammer. After her medical exam for the camp job, she informs me, almost in tears, that she was diagnosed with a mild form of Tuberculosis!!!!  “I have the TB. I cannot work in the camp and cannot work at my other job either. I must have ‘aid’, and now this man from the accident will take me to court and I can lose my flat”.
Now an illness is one thing, but TB? No one could have those kind of balls. Shoot me now folks.

Well, even in Russia, I doubt if any one is going to take a persons home due to an accident. I go so far as to get a good attorney to call her and offer assistance. She refuses the help. “There is nothing he can do. It is my fault and I am guilty. I must pay my debt”. I hold my ground, but I am getting hooked. She seemed so straightforward about this, explaining everything; I am starting to believe her. I am even considering going to a doctor to have myself checked out, since I was ‘exposed”.  So, at this point, I go on every scam site I can find, Google her name, check and double check. Nothing. Zero. I go to many web sites to see if she has a profile up any place. Nada. Zilch. Hmmm. Red flag on the accident and illness, but green on the internet. What to do.

Send her some money. Nothing big, but to help out. She is grateful as anything. We must get together again. When can I come back? Well, not anytime soon, but we are talking about the next trip.  Fast forward a few more weeks, another hundred emails, another 50 hours on the phone, and the need for more bucks. I cave in. The rose colored glasses refuse to come off.

Now comes the good stuff. Feeling ‘something’ I am aimlessly perusing some scam sites and WOW, there are her photos, but under another name!!! About 3years old. Big file. Her name is not Alena, but Olga.    @#$%^^^(*&^. Crap. Now what?

Call her up. What’s the deal here? She knows she has been profiled, but the man tried to take advantage of her and it was not as was written on the sites. He was vindictive. She explains. She was afraid to ruin our relationship in the beginning by bringing this up but was going to say something when we got back together again in person. But I found out. She apologizes, cries, it was not her fault. A true academy award performance. Now she is calling me, trying to make me understand that I am her man, her future husband and please do not abandon her now, in her hour of need. She is really sick. She is REALLY GOOD. Red flag, red flag, red flag, rose colored glasses.

Skipping past a whole bunch of details here, I make a decision to play along to see where this goes, hoping that maybe, just maybe, all this is just garbage, something from years gone by and she will be mine. I ask her for her passport. I get it. It’s real. Same name as on the sites. She asks for some more money. I do it. Again nothing large but I send it this time under her name. She goes to the bank only to find out she can’t get it. WU has her blacklisted. (I’m thinking that if she has not been to the bank for so long, maybe what she says was true? Maybe? She did not know she could not get money?) Go back to using her alias, which was her girlfriend’s name. No problem.

I call her at 10AM. She answers on the second ring. She is home. I hear her parrot squawking in the background. 4PM, same thing. 2AM, I can wake her up. No problem as she wants to talk to me. Always home, always answering the phone. She cannot leave, because it would risk exposure to other people and her immune system is low. One night she calls me crying. She is locked in the bathroom, her mother is there. Life is no good, she has this illness, she cannot go out, she misses me, she is bouncing off the walls, please help me. WOW. She is REALLY GOOD.

I promised not to mention any names here, but I go and invest in a few dollars to have her background checked out. Yep, that’s her name, and yep that is her address, and yep she is divorced and so far so good. I ask her for the names, addresses and phone numbers of some girl friends, just in case she gets seriously ill and I cannot reach her. She complies. I call them, check them out. All real. Would a scammer give out this data? In my gut, this is all wrong. Lies, deceit, requests for money. All wrong.  Back and forth. Rose colored glasses. I want to believe but…..

To end this whole sordid mess, the rest of her data comes in. Good Lord! Her EX is part of the Russian mob and was busted for racketeering. She, and her mom, have police records ‘not open to the public’ that spans 6 years. I wonder what the hell that means. The car she was driving is her mothers and not her girlfriends (no accident), between her and her mother they own 3 flats and a country home. Even the people checking into her background backed off on gathering any more info and offered to give me back some money. Scary? The rose colored glasses are sliding of my face.

And finally? Yesterday she wanted me more than anything, and today, she has a new profile up. I’m done.

Yeah, I know. I can sure pick them. Well, next time, if there is a next time because this really took the wind out of my sails, I will slow down, enjoy the adventure more than the chase and not become too focused on any one person that soon. Listen to my gut instead of my heart (at least in the beginning, and heck, even the middle).

And listen to the good advice you, my friends, gave me, which I let pass without strong consideration.

Man, my ass still hurts.

PS. Yes, I will be updating her profile on the scam sites with better and more recent data. Maybe save some other guys ass.

[Rvrwind]

Sorry to hear that viking & I hope you have better luck next time. I know how it feels, BTDT & bought the frigin' t-shirt factory!!! LOL It gets better with time as well as we get smarter. All I can say is better luck next time!!!

[TexasBoar]

Ouch. 

Thank you for sharing that, Viking.  Can't have been easy.  This is exactly my strongest reservation about all this---that it attracts slick, skillful, professional con artists like her, and that, like all the rest of us, I will be trusting my instincts and intuition across barriers of language and culture.

~Boar

[Turboguy]

Sad story Viking.  You are doing better than me.  I managed to get scammed on far more than three trips.  I think you wil do much better at avoiding it in the future.  

They say the best thing to do when you get thrown off a horse is to get right back up into the saddle.  Don't let it discourage you.  There are potholes in the roads we drive on and you just fell into one.  Smoother roads are ahead.

[Vaughn]

Vike, better luck next time around. If there's anything
I notice, that is, a common thread throughout many
of these stories, is the sudden cataclysmic event just
after the acquaintance. Good thing you had your doubts,
and even better that you followed up on them.

Vaughn

[Shadow]

Viking I am sorry to see this experience, but do not let it discourage you. May be the next trip, may be after you will find the right woman.

One thing....somehow I manage to see your rose coloured glasses and a scared look from her on the pictures. She is not happy there, but looks kind of frightened. I would not be surprised if her 'ex' is involved here in some way.

[BillyB]

Viking,

Thanks for your courage in posting your story. It's not easy to speak of our own life blunders. Your gal's life was full of problems just like trailer trash women in the States. I think it's safe to say to the newbies, if the gal you're corresponding with, or even after you visit a woman and she has lots of problems that are solved with money, move on.

Yes, update the scammer sites with accurate info on her multiple names. address, phone number and letters. People can goolge phrases of letters easy enough to find scam sites. Names and photos can change. Also contact the agency/s she's listed right away at and send them a link of the scam site you found her on and tell your story so they can remove her. If they refuse to remove her, let me know and I'll tell you ways of forcing the agency remove her.

President Putin did order the arrest of on scammer in the past, her and her husband raked in 1.5 million dollars. Don't underestimate sending a FEW dollars won't hurt your pocket book. It's the few dollars sent by many men that promote this type of behavior.

I remember reading a story of a man who's fiancee was apartment was robbed.  The computer was stolen and made it difficult for her to communicate with him and other expensive items were missing. Skeptics replied to him that he was being taken and FSU apartments are difficult to enter if properly locked. Others were saying he would be heartless not taking care of his fiancee's safety buy buying bars for the windows and beefing up security. I think he decided to help out his fiancee but I don't remember ever coming back to say he successfully got married. My feelings are that he should realize she is his fiancee and should be getting ready to pack her bags to be with him forever and he dorsn't need to replace everything that was stolen but he should send a little for security and safety of his fiancee. I should have asked him to forward me some letters she sent to him before and after the robbery, if the IP address is the same, before and after, that means she is still sending letters from the same computer in her house and she's lying.

[BC]

Viking,

A classic, showing how refined the game has become.. glad you posted it.

Just a quick question.  How did you run across her?

[Maxx2]

Great Post!

I have had people laugh at me when I say some of these ladies are all mobed up. That agencies can be part of the mob. Also they are great actresses when they need to be. I had doubts about mine until she put on an Academy Award winning performance about her sorrow of possible losing me. A method actress crying over the loss of a mule  and money.

Cool use of detectives to make sure your possible love of your life was on the up and up. Now you know and you will never wonder that you did the right thing by dumping this "poor unfortunate woman".

Maxx     

[Maxx2]

I would consider this thread depending on how it turns out as possible "sticky" status. It really shows the pitfalls and dangers for the newbies checking in.

Maxx

[catzenmouse]

Viking,

 Whoa! They sure are good but in the end you saved your soul by paying attention to that little voice. First one I came in contact with had me going good for awhile (never sent money) but the talks, letters, and the game had me going for quite a bit.

 Don't give up and don't give in and you will find that which you are looking for!

Ken

[Manny]

Does it have to be me who tells the truth?

The photo says it all!

[groovlstk]

Viking,

Thanks for having the cajones to post your story. If you continue your search in time you'll come to realize that getting burned was the best thing that could've happened to you, as it removed the blinders and now you see this business for what it is and can adjust your strategy accordingly.

It sounds crazy to think that someday you'll look back on your humiliation with feelings that, if not quite akin to nostalgia, at least qualify as something close to "thanks, I needed that!"

I'm starting to think that there are very finite ways of going about this correctly and an infinite number of ways to do it wrong.

[BillyB]

Does it have to be me who tells the truth?

The photo says it all!

If this is a thread to learn from, then everybody's thoughts should be brought up. I don't recall viking ever mentioning his age or he may be a man who received his white hair faster than others but we should question the motives of a woman when she is out of our league in looks, brains and/or youth. I have nothing against large age differences or if a male or female is much better looking than their partner but usually there is something about the other partner has that makes the match equalize. Maybe a man could equalize the match with lots of money, or is wise or kind, maybe he is a man of integrity or a good communicator. But the further two people don't match well, we must question the motives of the one who would have the most desirable traits. In this case based on visual looks, it's Viking gal. In my opinion she is a very beautiful woman for her age that looks younger than the late 30's. She could catch men younger than her! Viking may be a great guy in many ways but since this women could catch younger men, we should question her motives. And in many ways viking ended up questioning her motives and her motive is money.

My fiancee is a lot better looking than I am. People look at her ass when walking down the street more than mine. I have had a serious thought about why she likes me. After evaluating all possible reasons, I concluded I do have something to offer her that doesn't deal with money and she is sincere in her motives in marrying me. We shouldn't be blind when entering a relationship, we should know where the woman ranks and where we rank. The bigger the differences, the greater chance of failure or getting used.

[viking]

BC

In reply to your question, we both had profiles on freepersonals. She reached out to me. I suspect, in time, I would have reached out to her.

Billy B

I started to get my 'silver' hair in my twenties and thank goodness I still have all of it

[viking]

Manchester

Can you please give me some more feedback on what you mean by the photo says it all? Other than she is younger and holding on to me?  Thanks

[TexasBoar]

Manchester has a pet peeve against large age differences, Viking.  And an even bigger one against Texans for some reason, which is why I pay him little attention. 

Her body language does look a little conflicted, though.  Someone really should start a thread on analyzing post-trip photos for that sort of clue.

~Boar

[viking]

TB

There was a thread here someplace where people were given to analyzing another memebers photos from his trip. It was interesting. The expression on her face, the way she held her hands, blah blah blah.

With this photo, I had to set up the camera on a timer and run back to the chair, so it was not a composed shot. What I was trying to convey in this specific photo, was that she had her arms around and it would seem she was 'into me', if you get this drift. Nothing more. It was to show others that a really good scammer would do this to try and make a guy feel comfortable around her to set up her game plan. I have others, but I do not know if I want to go there.

[Bruce]

Excellent post.  As mentioned by Maxx worth having a sticky somewhere, perhaps the newbie section.  I think it happens to alot of guys in the search mode.  Its good you are moving on wiser and smarter.  You'll make your own luck down the road with persistence.

[KenC]

Thanks for sharing your story here, Viking.  There is no telling how many guys you have helped with posting it here.  I wonder if you are up to analyzing it a bit more though.  I would think a point by point "red flag alert" and how you or she justified your concern.  Almost like the old cartoons with an angel/devil on different shoulders.

red flag- kick ass flat with all the latest luxuries
How in the world can this girl afford this on a trainers salary?
Wise investing from a flat left to her by her ex-husband

It might be interesting.
KenC

[BC]

TB

There was a thread here someplace where people were given to analyzing another memebers photos from his trip. It was interesting. The expression on her face, the way she held her hands, blah blah blah.

Viking,

Regardless of age and/or ethnic differences I have always believed that 'optical fit' tends to give an idea about the couple, after all perceptions as to how the outside world views the relationship as 'acceptable' can either promote or demote social acceptability and ultimately happiness in the chosen environment.

I would not discount this aspect as simple blah blah..

[viking]

BC.

Point taken and accepted. I guess I just don't believe in this as much as somebody else, but I am always open to any objective opinion.

[viking]

Just when I thought it was safe to back into the water (remember Jaws?)

Seems like this thing has a life of its own.

About a month ago this woman says she needs to sell her computer because she needs the money. We are now left with just phone calls on her cell. I can deal with this. About five days ago, this message comes up on her cell "this phone is temporarily blocked" (no money in the account). HuH? By about this time is when I discover the new profile and I'm hitting the trail. I am trying to put this persons pictures out of my mind. Trying to get her incredible voice out of my mind. Trying real hard.

Then, today, this shows up. After no emails for a long time. After no contact for about 5 days. I made the mistake of opening it up.

MY LOVE, I HAVE A CHANCE TO WRITE YOU FROM INTERNET
CAFE.  I DO TERRIBLE MISS TO HEAR YOUR VOICE AND I MISS YOU
MUCH, BUT HERE IS NO WAY TO KEEP US IN A CONNECTION. I FEEL
MUCH BETTER, BUT I STILL HOME AND I CANNOT WORK. I HAVE MY FLAT
BILLS , I NEED TO HAVE A FOOD.  I SOLD MY CELL PHONE AND SOME
OTHER STUFF TO KEEP ME AND MOTHER ALIVE . I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT WILL BE
IN THE NEAR FUTURE WHEN WE SPENT ALL MONEY THAT WE HAVE , WE ARE
THINKING TO CHANGE OUR FLAT FOR THE WORST CONDITIONS FLAT AND MAYBE
OTHER AREA , IT WILL BE CHEAPER AND WE'LL HAVE A DIFFERENCE AFTER WE
CELL OUR FLAT. I DON'T KNOW WHEN I'LL BE ABLE TO GO TO INTERNET CAFE
AGAIN. I SENT YOU A POST LETTER.  LOVE YOU AND TERRIBLE MISS YOU ,
YOUR WOMAN.

Seems like an opportunity to have last licks. So do I:
1. do nothing. Just ignore it
2. Say, ok go sell your flat, adios
3. something else (lets face it, a little revenge would be good for my soul)(yes, I am a bit pi**ed off)

Now her IP address on this is not coming from the usual place, so she is most likely using an internet cafe, but perhaps just for this type of communication.

Did you ever see such tenancity? Talk about trying to put someone on a guilt trip.
(My mom is Italian, and my wife was Jewish, so I thought I had guilt pretty much covered). Guess not.

Here I would appreciate some advice.

[Manny]

If this is a thread to learn from, then everybody's thoughts should be brought up. I don't recall viking ever mentioning his age or he may be a man who received his white hair faster than others but we should question the motives of a woman when she is out of our league in looks, brains and/or youth. I have nothing against large age differences or if a male or female is much better looking than their partner but usually there is something about the other partner has that makes the match equalize. Maybe a man could equalize the match with lots of money, or is wise or kind, maybe he is a man of integrity or a good communicator. But the further two people don't match well, we must question the motives of the one who would have the most desirable traits. In this case based on visual looks, it's Viking gal. In my opinion she is a very beautiful woman for her age that looks younger than the late 30's. She could catch men younger than her! Viking may be a great guy in many ways but since this women could catch younger men, we should question her motives. And in many ways viking ended up questioning her motives and her motive is money.

Texas - You assert I have a problem with age differences and Texans. Not true. I have visited the US many times but not yet Texas - I would love to! - I dont have "a problem" with large age differences per say, just the mentality of men who believe the agency rhetoric and believe an old guy can get a hot 20 something model looking girl, if they can it is with maximum economic exploitation, we all know it otherwise they would have a similar age of AW. I have read your negative comments about me before and let me assure you that I have no problem with you or Texans - nor do I have a problem with age differences if they LOOK realistic together. The actual years are unimportant, its how the personality is together and how they look together.

Our very own KenC is a good example - although Ken and I have the odd spat across a couple of boards, my personal opinion (and not the opinion of this board or its management) is that Ken and his lady look incompatible together when one looks at only their pic/avatar. I would add that Kens 7 year marriage proves how seemingly incompatible looking couples can gel, Ken is still married, and for that he gets my respect (despite what he thinks) - Age differences of such a magnitude can work but unrealistic ones ie; 15 years+ and most especially 20 years + must IMO have MANY $$$'s in the picture to work. Ken is the first to admit that he would nor recommend such an age gap to others.

Viking - You ask me to quantify my comments, in fact BillyB has done it quite well above in his post that I quote. I would add, as you ask, that apart from body language, you guys look like father and daughter. You may be an A1 guy and I dont make any comment about you as a guy as I dont know you. But, based on that pic, you guys look unrealistic together. That lady is not and never will be a credible wife for you. Plaything maybe, GCH probably, but a wife? Come on!

To much of the blah blah on these boards extolls older guys with hot looking much younger women. Maybe 10 years ago! Not now! - These countries are changing, affluent young Russian Men with triangle torsoes abound. If you dip your toe into that "dirty barrel" it will get burned - as yours did!

Its not happening dude! - Accept it and bat closer to base!

[SANDRO43]

(My mom is Italian, and my wife was Jewish, so I thought I had guilt pretty much covered). Guess not. Here I would appreciate some advice.

Viking, just take #1 and drop the whole mess.

Mamma mia WAS Italian (no longer around) and she once told me something along these lines : "If your finger has turned a black colour and smells, cut it off ! Painful, but much less so than having to cut off your entire arm if you wait longer."