A lesson learned, the hard way

[viking]

Manchester

My ex father in law is a good looking man of 86. Very active. A woman in his apartment asked him out. She is around 65. Very attractive and more classy than he. But they make a nice couple. 21 years age difference. No one cares.

16 year old girl, goes out with a 37 year old man. 21 years age difference. He is a child molester.

Two ends of the spectrum.

I agree with you in this regard. 'Within reason', and there will always be exceptions, I feel that maturity and the chemistry between two people is more important than an age difference. Catherine Zeta Jones is one hot woman. Michael Douglas is really showing his age. They love each other and are happy. I think there is some 20 plus years between them. Celine Dion and her husband.  Even more so. It is what makes two people happy that counts. Even my ex AW of 16 years of marriage was 10 years my junior.

Having said that, I also agree that the bigger the difference the more likley a situation will occur that happened to me. Bear in mind that I had no intention to get involved. I did not go to SPB to see her. Bear in mind that if I came home and never heard from her again, I could safely say I had a nice time and have some pleasant memories. Bear in mind she is a scammer and made every effort to try and get me to become more involved and, I admit, succcessfuly. And yes, I allowed myself the fantasy of being with this woman as a possibility to something more. But we were also a long way from being a husband and wife. In my dreams there was at least one more trip to SPB  a few months down the road and then perhaps a vacation some months after that to truly test the waters and maybe finalize .

What we look like, in my very humble opinion, was nothing to do with anything. THAT is all superficial. To assert she would not be a credible wife because of a photo, because in your opinion she LOOKS too young or I too old , does not make any sense to me. In this regard we part company. That 16YO could look like she is 24 or even 28. and fit fine with a 37YO. That woman could look like she is 50 with the right make up and the age difference would 'appear' to be greater than it is. It is perception. Only perception. And when a husband and wife go home at night they could care less about perception.

There will be 10,000 men times 10 who will fall prey to a woman like this and there is very little we can do about it except make posts like this and maybe save a few. That was my intention here. Not to scare anymore (well maybe a little) but for a person to understand what can go wrong if you do not keep your wits about you. Think about what some people will do for a buck.

[Turboguy]

My suggestion is also to do nothing.  If you want to do something, then write her and say you are sorry to hear about all her problems and you hope she will remember to send you the address for her new smaller flat when she moves.  The best thing is to just do what you want and then forget her.  There are hundreds of thousands of good ones that are just as nice and just a pretty.

I don't know why all the fuss about the age difference.  There is no more between you than tons of other RW AM couples.  You look fine together. 

[viking]

Thanks TG

Can always count on you. And I am also done with this age thing. Spoke my piece and will move from this as well.

[Momus]

What we look like, in my very humble opinion, was nothing to do with anything. THAT is all superficial. To assert she would not be a credible wife because of a photo, because in your opinion she LOOKS too young or I too old , does not make any sense to me. In this regard we part company. That 16YO could look like she is 24 or even 28. and fit fine with a 37YO. That woman could look like she is 50 with the right make up and the age difference would 'appear' to be greater than it is. It is perception. Only perception. And when a husband and wife go home at night they could care less about perception.

Viking, I feel terrible about what you experienced. Really, I do. I also respect you for posting this here. But I think your view on this specific point is naive. At the risk of generalizing, women care about perception. Every woman I have known wanted to show her man off to her friends and family. In brief, perception is important, and most women (in my opinion!) want a man that their peers will envy.

I don't think there is anything wrong with this. I also think it is wonderful that perception isn't important to you, that you believe appearances are merely superficial.*  But go carefully if you would thereby assume that a woman shares your view.

* I will ask an indelicate question: Does this go both ways? Would you be attracted to a woman 20 years older than you?

[TexasBoar]

* I will ask an indelicate question: Does this go both ways? Would you be attracted to a woman 20 years older than you?

I don't know about Viking's answer, but I can tell you mine: at 34, within the space of the same year, I dated a woman who was 46 . . . and a woman who was 22.  Both were great ladies, and in both cases, my only regrets are that the relationships didn't last.  I dated the 46 year old off and on for about 2 years, and lived with the 22 year old for several months.

Before anyone takes issue with that lack of success, lol,  it was shortly after my divorce and I was bouncing around emotionally like the little pinball zig-zagging through the bumpers. 

~Boar

[Momus]

I don't know about Viking's answer, but I can tell you mine: at 34, within the space of the same year, I dated a woman who was 46 . . . and a woman who was 22. 

That's cool, but twelve years is not 20. I will take as a matter of faith that you would not have dated a 14 year old.    If the older woman had been 54...still no problem for you? And still no problem when you are at a point in your life when you are searching for a wife and not bouncing around like a pinball?

[PeeWee]

Just when I thought it was safe to back into the water (remember Jaws?)

Seems like this thing has a life of its own.

About a month ago this woman says she needs to sell her computer because she needs the money. We are now left with just phone calls on her cell. I can deal with this. About five days ago, this message comes up on her cell "this phone is temporarily blocked" (no money in the account). HuH? By about this time is when I discover the new profile and I'm hitting the trail. I am trying to put this persons pictures out of my mind. Trying to get her incredible voice out of my mind. Trying real hard.

Then, today, this shows up. After no emails for a long time. After no contact for about 5 days. I made the mistake of opening it up.

MY LOVE, I HAVE A CHANCE TO WRITE YOU FROM INTERNET
CAFE.  I DO TERRIBLE MISS TO HEAR YOUR VOICE AND I MISS YOU
MUCH, BUT HERE IS NO WAY TO KEEP US IN A CONNECTION. I FEEL
MUCH BETTER, BUT I STILL HOME AND I CANNOT WORK. I HAVE MY FLAT
BILLS , I NEED TO HAVE A FOOD.  I SOLD MY CELL PHONE AND SOME
OTHER STUFF TO KEEP ME AND MOTHER ALIVE . I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT WILL BE
IN THE NEAR FUTURE WHEN WE SPENT ALL MONEY THAT WE HAVE , WE ARE
THINKING TO CHANGE OUR FLAT FOR THE WORST CONDITIONS FLAT AND MAYBE
OTHER AREA , IT WILL BE CHEAPER AND WE'LL HAVE A DIFFERENCE AFTER WE
CELL OUR FLAT. I DON'T KNOW WHEN I'LL BE ABLE TO GO TO INTERNET CAFE
AGAIN. I SENT YOU A POST LETTER.  LOVE YOU AND TERRIBLE MISS YOU ,
YOUR WOMAN.

Seems like an opportunity to have last licks. So do I:
1. do nothing. Just ignore it
2. Say, ok go sell your flat, adios
3. something else (lets face it, a little revenge would be good for my soul)(yes, I am a bit pi**ed off)

Now her IP address on this is not coming from the usual place, so she is most likely using an internet cafe, but perhaps just for this type of communication.

Did you ever see such tenancity? Talk about trying to put someone on a guilt trip.
(My mom is Italian, and my wife was Jewish, so I thought I had guilt pretty much covered). Guess not.

Here I would appreciate some advice.

I'd move on, Viking. In otherwords I'd be like the cowboy at the end of the movie, riding off into the sunset. Or like Rhett Butler..."Frankly, I don't give a damn."

Peevee

[catzenmouse]

Viking,

 If you really feel the need to do so then send her the "Dear Jane" letter but I think in the long run you will feel better about yourself if you do nothing and just let it go. It isn't about her anymore, it is about you and getting past the feelings involved.

Ken

[TexasBoar]

That's cool, but twelve years is not 20. I will take as a matter of faith that you would not have dated a 14 year old.    If the older woman had been 54...still no problem for you? And still no problem when you are at a point in your life when you are searching for a wife and not bouncing around like a pinball?

With that particular woman?  Sure. 

I seriously thought she was at least a couple years younger than me, and asked her out.  She thought I was maybe 25 at the most---good genes that way in my family---and still went out with me. 

Former actress.  They don't age like normal folk, lol.

Now, some random, wattle-necked, saddle-bagged, beauty shop perm 54 year old?  Not a chance.  But you have to understand, women my own age (47), at this point . . . most of them are just way too grown up for me.  They've had, and raised, their crop of kids, wear girdles and sensible shoes, gotten that damn hairDO . . . and I just can't relate.  Comes from being childless, I guess, and having been a bachelor for as much of my life as I've been.  A younger woman and I will actually be likely to have far more interests in common.

Dunno if that disputes your point, or makes it for you.  What WAS your point again? That men shouldn't date younger women?

That's just weird. 

~Boar

[PeeWee]

Viking,

 If you really feel the need to do so then send her the "Dear Jane" letter but I think in the long run you will feel better about yourself if you do nothing and just let it go. It isn't about her anymore, it is about you and getting past the feelings involved.

Ken

That is not a bad idea, Mouser. Playing it out. Let's say she receives the letter and then writes back with a denial and an appology. He then has to either rely or walk away from it, as I suggested. Your idea for him to clear his mind would be fine as long as he let it go after that.

peevee

[Momus]

Dunno if that disputes your point, or makes it for you.  What WAS your point again? That men shouldn't date younger women?

That's just weird. 

I had two points. First, that regardless of Viking's own views on the subject, perceptions and appearances are likely to matter to a woman he pursues, and he would be wise to take this into consideration. Second, my "indelicate question" reflected my suspicion (not yet confirmed or denied by Viking) that the lack of concern with superficial appearances is a one-way street. In other words, it's not that appearances don't matter, it's that appearances shouldn't matter to her. That's fine, but call it like it is.

For the record, as I have stated elsewhere, I think it's perfectly normal for older men to be attracted to younger women, assuming the woman has the traits usually associated with youth -- smooth skin, glossy hair, tight body, etc. I also think it is perfectly normal for younger women to be attracted to older men, assuming the man has the traits often associated with maturity -- wealth, power, status, experience, confidence, etc. My suggestion is simply to proceed with eyes wide open rather than dismissing the issue and potential landmines as superficial and irrelevant.

[chivo]

Just when I thought it was safe to back into the water (remember Jaws?)

Seems like this thing has a life of its own.

About a month ago this woman says she needs to sell her computer because she needs the money. We are now left with just phone calls on her cell. I can deal with this. About five days ago, this message comes up on her cell "this phone is temporarily blocked" (no money in the account). HuH? By about this time is when I discover the new profile and I'm hitting the trail. I am trying to put this persons pictures out of my mind. Trying to get her incredible voice out of my mind. Trying real hard.

Then, today, this shows up. After no emails for a long time. After no contact for about 5 days. I made the mistake of opening it up.

MY LOVE, I HAVE A CHANCE TO WRITE YOU FROM INTERNET
CAFE.  I DO TERRIBLE MISS TO HEAR YOUR VOICE AND I MISS YOU
MUCH, BUT HERE IS NO WAY TO KEEP US IN A CONNECTION. I FEEL
MUCH BETTER, BUT I STILL HOME AND I CANNOT WORK. I HAVE MY FLAT
BILLS , I NEED TO HAVE A FOOD.  I SOLD MY CELL PHONE AND SOME
OTHER STUFF TO KEEP ME AND MOTHER ALIVE . I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT WILL BE
IN THE NEAR FUTURE WHEN WE SPENT ALL MONEY THAT WE HAVE , WE ARE
THINKING TO CHANGE OUR FLAT FOR THE WORST CONDITIONS FLAT AND MAYBE
OTHER AREA , IT WILL BE CHEAPER AND WE'LL HAVE A DIFFERENCE AFTER WE
CELL OUR FLAT. I DON'T KNOW WHEN I'LL BE ABLE TO GO TO INTERNET CAFE
AGAIN. I SENT YOU A POST LETTER.  LOVE YOU AND TERRIBLE MISS YOU ,
YOUR WOMAN.

Seems like an opportunity to have last licks. So do I:
1. do nothing. Just ignore it
2. Say, ok go sell your flat, adios
3. something else (lets face it, a little revenge would be good for my soul)(yes, I am a bit pi**ed off)

Now her IP address on this is not coming from the usual place, so she is most likely using an internet cafe, but perhaps just for this type of communication.

Did you ever see such tenancity? Talk about trying to put someone on a guilt trip.
(My mom is Italian, and my wife was Jewish, so I thought I had guilt pretty much covered). Guess not.

Here I would appreciate some advice.

Viking,

It's a well known fact that people from her area of the world perceive Americans as incredibly gullible. Now of course i say this as a typical sideline guest, but i wouldn't fall for this myself.

what would she do if she never met you is my question? Most people in the FSU have someone to fall back on in cases of emergency. The people are incredibly resilient and have been through far worse and survived. Shes pulling at your heart with, unfortunately, her purse strings.

As tough as it may seem to you to do, it just seems that in reality, you are not fully invested enough here to do anything but move on. you've read it here many times, no good woman, even in this situation, would ask a relative stranger to help in the way she is asking.

so, while its only my advice, i say cut your losses, and chalk one up for the gullible Americans. good luck.

chivo

[viking]

I want to change direction here a little bit. The discussions on age, perception and so forth are good, some hashed out before, but we have an opportunity to look at something that I do not believe we have had a chance to discuss before.

I want to thank KenC for bringing up an idea that moved out to something maybe a bit more interesting.

Let’s look at this from HER point of view.

Here is a woman, a master at her trade, who has been at this for a long time and knows most of the angles. A real professional. Here I am, this gullible man, listening to her stories and feeling sorry and shipping over a small but steady supply of money. To my way of thinking, no scammer will want to shoot the goose that lays the golden eggs or cut their nose to spite their face.

For her, it is a small matter to spend a few minuets each day to pump out an email.  Add to that maybe 30-45 minutes of phone conversation, give or take, over 2-3 calls a day. And most of those conversations were pretty pleasant. And of course, she always had the option of shutting off the phone to’ rest from her sickness’, if she was busy with something or someone else, and it would have been a reasonable action.

But what does she do. First she says she must sell her computer for extra money. I am aware of this concern. Since I do not send this money right away, she goes and sells it, cutting off 50% of our communication. (I do not think she actually did, but no more emails are the bottom line). Maybe my punishment for failing to give her bucks right away? I do not know.  A computer cannot be replaced inexpensively so this door is closed forever. But we always have the phone.

Fast forward a few weeks, I can no longer reach her on the phone, and without notice, she goes to an internet café and tells me she sold her phone, and in the same breath, she can only go to this café once in awhile, and may now need to sell her flat. Her situation is getting worse.  (My note: no woman, RW or AW can live without a phone, so there must have been 2. One personal and one for me)

So if there is no more communication, even if I wanted to send money, how can this happen?

Why would this woman take this kind of action? She could have told me she sold the dishwasher, the dog, or anything else and I would have no way of knowing or confirming anything and still keep the lines open for future money requests. What were her expectations for writing this letter? What could she have achieved?  Why would she blow me off, if there was still ‘an interest’ in her and was never given the impression that I would not send more money? Is there yet another scheme about to unfold a few weeks from now depending on if I answer her, or not, and what that answer may be?


Anybody care to venture into her mind set that may help us to understand how not to play into this type of situation?

[BillyB]

Is there yet another scheme about to unfold a few weeks from now depending on if I answer her, or not, and what that answer may be?

Just keep ignoring her. If she was a good woman, she'd have friends and family to fall back on in her supposed time of need. She lived all her life comfortably without you, and I'm sure she'd continue to live this way without you. Since you turned off the money, she's looking for another sponsor by listing a new profile. She's working you more as a last ditch effort for money. Get her profile off the internet so another man won't suffer.

[Michelangelo]

Why would this woman take this kind of action? She could have told me she sold the dishwasher, the dog, or anything else and I would have no way of knowing or confirming anything and still keep the lines open for future money requests. What were her expectations for writing this letter? What could she have achieved?  Why would she blow me off, if there was still ‘an interest’ in her and was never given the impression that I would not send more money? Is there yet another scheme about to unfold a few weeks from now depending on if I answer her, or not, and what that answer may be?


Anybody care to venture into her mind set that may help us to understand how not to play into this type of situation?

Why do spammers send silly spam messages?  What kind of idiot would bite?  Well, they are happy with 1 out of a half million--it keeps them in business. Likewise, this girl knew that getting anything from you was a longshot, but why not try?  So she did.  I'm glad you quit nibbling.  Just ignore her Viking.

[KenC]

Viking,
She recognizes that your well is running dry and is attempting to paint as desperate a scenario as she can think up.  Not that any of it is true of course.  She is telling you, "Viking, the man of my dreams, the door is closing on your opportunity to have me.  No, it is really closing.  Really really closing.  Don't you see it closing?"

My guess is that she will give you at least one more chance to send her money before writing you off completely.  She now knows that you are only a long shot and that means more desperate measures are needed to squeeze that last dime out of you.  Don't waste any more of your braincells thinking about her.  Look for a good woman instead.
KenC

[catzenmouse]

Those last couple of things were just throwing out some desperation posts hoping you would give in and bail her out. Michael's on target with just ignore her and let it go. Look towards your bright future and not so much back at the dark cloud of this woman.

Ken

EDIT: Michelangelo: Much better avatar! You were getting kind of pale in the other one. 

[Michelangelo]

Michelangelo: Much better avatar! You were getting kind of pale in the other one. 

Thanks, Ken :-) 

[BC]

Olga,

I think a good term would be 'subjective optical litmus test' 

Good to have your POV on this.

[Manny]

Hello all,

I think the most important thing here are wise words by Manchester. Why focus on why this RW might be bad? Or why she might have to be going so low for money, etc. Why not focus on lessons and positive things that will help you get married to a nice RW sooner? Do not pass what Manchester said here. As a RW I can tell you it is true.

Most important thing is a couple looks credible (Manchester's word) together. Leave age difference out of it for now just get this one idea first. We do not know this word "credible" in FSU but we do have a strong and old tradition that couple should look good together. This goes so far to have a foto of the couple together and to pass that foto around to family and friends. All should agree and move heads up and down that "this couple looks made together!" Or not.

Most RW will not waste time with a man who does not look made for her like this. If she does you should be suspicious. This should be your first test. Look at your foto together and try to be very honest with your self. Of course we all want to sit next to Jessica Simpson or Angela Jolie in a photo and say we look right together. It takes a strong and smart man to be able to see clearly when in presence of beauty. But to save your self lots of time money and aggravate you need to do this.

This relationship should not have gone past first date. I do not mean to be harsh. Viking I am sure you are a great guy and there is equal to great RW who look perfect in foto next to you. You just have not found her yet.

оля - Wise words at last!  (almost my lady's words verbatim!)

What I didnt labour was that my lady pops in and out as I peruse these boards, I asked her for her opinion on this pic, her words were "is he very very rich?" That is a RW talking - actually thats 2 of them! 

I showed her the odd pic/avatar on here and elsewhere to get her opinion on the age issue. She tells me that big age differences usually involve money and lots of it. She added that it is only an avenue SOME girls would consider. "Why else would a young sexy girl look at an old man?" she said! (how black and white is that?)  Her next comment was "what happens in 10/20 years?" - another valid point!

Viking likens a woman in her 60's to a man in his 80's - not the same! Texas admits he would look at a 14 year old girl back thread - enough said! (but in some states that was legal - still maybe?)

Age will be argued for ever and a day on these boards as older men chase the unrealistic non credible younger fantasy and hold the occasional seemingly successful relationship up as proof - dream on guys!

[PeeWee]

Olga said it well. To know that the family stamp of approval on the photo/pair match is important intel for us lost boys. "Lost Boys"? Peter Pan...right?  I have heard that term somewhere before.

Peevee

[TexasBoar]

Texas admits he would look at a 14 year old girl back thread - enough said!

Get bent, you little prat.  This is why you're going straight back on ignore.

~Boar

[Manny]

That's cool, but twelve years is not 20. I will take as a matter of faith that you would not have dated a 14 year old.   

With that particular woman?  Sure. 

I dont know what "get bent" means - but I am neither little nor prat. Shall we go into name calling old man or refer to the quotes above?

 Comments implying pedophilia have GRAVE consequences and will not be tolerated.

[TexasBoar]

That's cool, but twelve years is not 20. I will take as a matter of faith that you would not have dated a 14 year old.    If the older woman had been 54...still no problem for you? And still no problem when you are at a point in your life when you are searching for a wife and not bouncing around like a pinball?

And now we're done, prat.

~Boar

[TexasBoar]

Manchester
   
Re: A lesson learned, the hard way
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