Scam of the 2nd Kind

[Warren]

Hi Guys:  I have been to a number of Marriage Agency websites and noticed a "scam of the 2nd kind" at one of the sites, also called "churning of your account" to use a Wall Street term

It works this way:  You visit an Agency website. You place your profile/photo at the website. Then, you search their girls profiles and select 3-6 and place them in your "My Favorites" file.  Later, you then check your email for ladies' messages. You get a few (none from "My Favorites) and they do not meet your expectations, so you delete their messages without opening them (no money involved). This goes on for 1-2 weeks.  Finally, bingo !  You get a message from one or two of "My Favorites".  You pay for your "credits" and open her message. It turns out that it is the Agency's basic letter that she wrote when she placed her profile at their website.  All the Agency did was put your name at the top and send it to you.  This gets you to buy "Credits".  A process of "churning the account". 

     There is a "Scam of the 3rd Kind" which I will discuss later.

       Warren

[Bruce]

The key is the ability to recognize which formats are immediately suspect and stay away.  It takes alot of time, experience and looking, so you are better off checking out which agencies have been panned in cyberland, finding out exactly why and doing your homework.  Where there is smoke there usually is fire - but sometimes agencies are sending out the smoke.  Talk to non-agency affiliated former clients / active clients as well as getting the party line from the agency representatives.  Different people have different opinions.  As far as I am concerned if you want to talk to honest agency owners that will give you the straight poop talk with Jack and Marc.  There are plenty of other married guys who have been through the agency mills like myself and others who never used a marriage agency.  There are many ways to skin a cat.  My opinion - forget about letter correspondence, pick an agency with a good reputation far enough away from a big city, write a general letter of introduction to the girls you like on their website and just go or forget about an agency and just find a legitimate guide / translator to help you along and just go.  The bottom line is to get off the computer screen and on the plane the sooner the better.  Then second, third, fourth generation of computer scams will not mean a darn to start with if you do not play their game(s).

[Warren]

Bruce:  Yes, I was married to a Ukraine gal for 4 months. But like I said, she was a liar and thief (stole $15,000). I sent her packing back to Ukraine and divorced her. I have planned on doing what you suggested for my next try.  I was just trying to alert others to this type of scam.  Some of the scams are suitble and others need to be aware of this.  

By the way, I have been to Russia, Czech Republic, Ukraine and many other countries on business and pleasure.  I have met a number of the Ukraine and Russian ladies in person without going to the "Socials". So, I know the "game".

By the way, who is Marc and Jack ?

   W.

[Bruce]

Jack from Firstdream at www.firstdream.com or just try private messaging him on this board

Marc Dayton at www.goldenringbrides.com or just try private messaging him on this board (Marc is dyslexic so do not expect the best spelled response - you are better off calling him).

In any event, I assume you know what works for you at this stage of your pursuit etc. 

[Warren]

Bruce: Have you looked at Jim's  www.agencyscams.com  BLACK LIST and also his GOLD LIST of agencies. Very revealing.

     Warren

[Bruce]

Warren, there are many anti-scam sites out there.  What is Jim's motivation, how current is his information.  My information is based on my personal experience.  I see he recommends one of the big three agencies on his site - therefore I do not believe he is pointing guys in the right direction.  All of the big three agencies do not really know their girls period.  How frequently do you think AFA contacts the girls posted on their site to make sure they even exist after they send in photos???  When do they remove a girls bio / photo - when the girl tells them is Dud's answer.  How many girls really know they are even on the AFA site???  How many were posted by their "affiliate" agencies???   How many girls even bother to tell them they want off???  How fast does AFA do this???  From what I read and know - just not the kind of service I would want if I was still looking. 

If I were you I would forget about the letter writing and either just go over, go over with the help of a guide / translator (preferably one connected / experienced with helping guys find wife material girls), deal with a legitimate full service agency like Marc Daytons (which incidentally is cheaper than going on any of the big three tours) or using Jack's full pary service / approach or his ala-carte services ie. what you need.

[Elen]

I think when you post about 10 kinds of scam I'll get enough knowledges for opening my own agency:D

[Warren]

Bruce: I have very narrow requirements for my next bride. Therefore, I must scan literally a thousand or more to see if they meet my requirements. After that, I can pick the top three and do the "ala-carte" route to meeting them. Compatibility is important. As a first cut to the problem, astrological sign compatibility points you in the right direction. Then follow up with Dr. Oldham's personality profile test(See his book). Then after that, it is your "gut" instinct. My previous Ukraine wife passed the profile test but I was a little leary of her being a Leo. Now I know why. But I was infatuated.  Little older and wiser now.

By the way, get married in Nevada as there are 19 ways to annul the marriage which saves time and money.

     Warren

[Elen]

astrological sign compatibility points you in the right direction

How many of you believe in such stuff?

[Elen]

get married in Nevada as there are 19 ways to annul the marriage which saves time and money

  Aga! I got that

 And where shouldn't you get married?:cool:

[Turboguy]

As far as AFA being on the Gold list, why not.    The gold list would be an agency that does not scam people.    I don't see where it would require someone to be ultra efficient and operating their business at a level no one else is and that is not practical for an agency that size.

If you want to see a scam play around with EC's Global Ladies or the sister site E-700.   Just go to a search engine and do a search on "Global Ladies+scam" and see how many days it takes you to read all the problems people have had.   Yet even with that the EC tours and catalog are pretty up front and honest.   The problem becomes the other agencies that hook into Global ladies.   

Personally I see a lot of you on pay per letter programs and that is something I would not touch with a 10 foot pole.   There are good agencies and bad but there is just too much temtation with that program.   It is just to easy to have some little old lady sitting there writing letters for $ 50.00 a month that they charge $ 8.00 a letter.   Perhaps if I knew the agency really well I might consider it but there are too many places out there where you can write the lady without that cost.   One of my buddies from an EC tour was spending between $ 500-1000 a month on Global Ladies and he was still single on last notice.

I am sure on the number of engagements with AFA that it takes more then one method to get anywhere close to that number which is probably expanded anyway.   I have never been on an AFA tour and I have never bought even one single address from AFA yet I am engaged because of them. 

[Muzh]

Finally, bingo !  You get a message from one or two of "My Favorites".  You pay for your "credits" and open her message. It turns out that it is the Agency's basic letter that she wrote when she placed her profile at their website.  All the Agency did was put your name at the top and send it to you.  This gets you to buy "Credits".  A process of "churning the account". 

     There is a "Scam of the 3rd Kind" which I will discuss later.

       Warren

Let me guess; Confidential Connections?

I got spammed by them.  They even set me up with an account and I now  "have" a number of ladies writing to me based on my "profile."  Keep in mind that the only time I've contacted them was to ask them to remove me from their list.  I even told them I'm married and have no desire to "contact" anyone.  Right after that they sent me a few "free credits" so I can write the ladies.  I'm still receiving their spam.

[Bruce]

Turboguy - if you are in the game at all you can get lucky.  Dud knows that even a broken clock is right twice each day.

Warren - your slope is steep, best of luck.

Elen - Astrology has something to it.  Think about it.  A person is born in a particular month.  When they are in the womb certain months go by.  A person born in say October was first in the womb late January / February - the dead of winter, while a person born in say January started off in the womb in May.  The seasonal difference also came into play during their early development ie. the person born in October experienced Fall and Winter first in their life, while the person born in January experienced Winter and Spring first.  Seasonality, along with diurnal, geothermic, latitudinal as well as other Astrological differences all effected them to an extent, albeit less than their born order, family etc. - but Astrology does have something to it.  Is it the most important thing, certainly not - but it means alot more than alot of the quirky things people hold tightly in their belief systems.  By the way Elen, did you light the doll today or attend an end of winter celebration?  Have any good pancakes?  They actually had a pretty good celebration here in Brighton Beach, made my wife proud.  

[ConnerVT]

Turboguy - if you are in the game at all you can get lucky.  Dud knows that even a broken clock is right twice each day

I've always liked "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then..."

[jb]

Bruce,

If what you say is valid, that seasonal experiences while in the womb, and a birth month, influences personalities, why then are people born in Austrailia, (where the seasons are reversed) still using the same zodiac signs as people born in the northern hemisphere?  Seems that ought to be reversed as well.

My wife, the scientist, said to tell you that all that astrology BS was concocted by the Babalonians about 4,000 odd years ago as part of their pagan belief system and has no place in our modern world of enlightenment.

And that's from a RW.

[Elen]

I agree many people here (and there) do believe in astrology.

But for me it was always odd when people turned down a candidature of possible  partner only because she(he) was born in non-right month:?

[Warren]

Elen:  It is not that I turn any lady down because she does not have the right astrological sign, it is just a general indication. There are many other factors to be considered.  Probably the best indication that I have found so far is Dr. Oldham's personality test. It is the best summary that psychology has to offer.

     Warren

[Warren]

Bruce: Yea, Jack of www.firstdream.com seems to have it all together. It appears to be an excellent website.  When I go to Kiev, I will use his "ala-carte" services. Thanks for the info.

    Warren

 

 

[Bruce]

JB, I do not know enough about Astrology to know how a good Astrologer accounts for hemispheric differences.  In any event, I agree that there are alot of other things more important than a girls Astrological chart when considering a relationship.  I was just trying to give you all some of the "scientific" explanation and why some people may find it more important than others in their selection processes.  

[Elen]

Elen:  It is not that I turn any lady down because she does not have the right astrological sign, it is just a general indication. There are many other factors to be considered.  Probably the best indication that I have found so far is Dr. Oldham's personality test. It is the best summary that psychology has to offer.

 

Sorry I slided into real world once more, forgot we were speaking about meetings, started in virtual space. Of course if you have 100s profiles of girls you should start with someting at least and astrology may be that thing used for the first celection.

(Although in reality it woud be stupid thing to ask girl about her birthday at first date and say "sorry stars tell me you don't fit for me:?" )

[jb]

yeah,,, well,

I was going along with Warren's story, right up to the point where he said he placed some credence in astrology.  That's where he lost my attention and any respect, or sympathy he might have garnered.

Saying you believe any of that crap automatically sends you to the nut house brigade in my estimation.  There is no "scientific" basic for that old superstition.  There are only two celestial bodies which affect our lives.  We need the sun's warmth to grow food, and we watch the moon because it's gravitational pull controls the tides.  Beyond that, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Saturn, etc., and the other planets are of no consequence to life on this planet Earth.  Besides, at the time that zodiac crap was dreamed up, the Babalonians had no knowledge of about half of the yet to be discovered planets in our solar system.  It wasn't until Galileo Galilei, (in 1609) invented the telescope, and there are realible reports he may have stole the idea from a Dutchman, that we begin to really explore the heavens.

Of course this is just my opinion, and YMMV.  

[Bruno]

Yeeep, and why not use a magic love potion during the meeting... so you will be sure to bring your bride in US :D:D

And for revenge, in case of scammer, use a vodoo pop :X:X:X

And not forget make your plan for meeting in function of biorythme... synchronise your love curse for more success :D:D

Please a little serious... now, i understandt why so much divorce...

[wxman]

We should have some pity on astrologists because they know how to make good money! Just like those that work the psychic hotline! Just call 1-800-snd-cash.

The stars tell me, someday the world will end. That will be $50 please.    

[jb]

Yeeep, and why not use a magic love potion during the meeting...

Does that mean the old geezers should be sure to take a big supply of Viagra with them when they go to meet that young hottie?  :cool:

[Photo Guy]

Doug on astrology:

Okay, I'm guilty of using astrology as something to be considered
in choosing a mate. I began studying astrology back in '74.
This is how I approached the subject: I began by reading all of the
most interesting books on the subject. Next, I began remembering
the sun signs (zodiac) of all the people I knew and met. A general
picture began to form of what a particular sun-sign was like.
I've never given much creedence to daily horoscopes. I do not
want to live my life based on daily horoscope advice.

On a daily basis I have compared people's personalities and
motives with what I have read. An extremely high percentage of
women who attract me, belong to certain sun signs. Astrology can
be extremely accurate in describing a person. I recently read a
thick book called 'Sextrology'. I read about Virgo women. The authors mentioned an amusing story about how many Virgo women
will wear something that they mistakenly think is 'cool' and
fashionable. Okay, that's vague, but then the example they
gave was '...such as a Minnie Mouse watch..'  Well, the Virgo woman I had in mind wore a Minnie Mouse watch! Coincidence?!
Sure, whatever you say. I don't think it's just a coincidence.

The women I am drawn to are ALWAYS the same sun signs.
Coincidence? I doubt it. How does astrology work? I don't
know. We don't know. But, I must remind you that we also do not
know how gravity works. (yet)  Unexplainable things do happen
and do exist. Love itself has many magical qualities.   -doug