Turboguy & Turbodude's First Dream tour

[Gator]

Wonder where Ray is during all of this discussion about his life.

Should not this thread be split as it has little to do with Turbo’s First dream tour.?

As someone who has lived with a large age difference, I offer the following:

1.  Issues of longevity are important, and a widowed woman will have some hesitation emotionally about possibly repeating a past tragedy.

2.  Because of longevity issues, a man should be concerned about security for the woman in two regards:   
a. The man should encourage the woman to have her own friends separate from his (many men can be controlling and jealous and not like her to have her own life).
b. The man should through estate planning and/or insurance provide for the woman’s welfare after death (or if he has no money for this, make sure the woman develops a marketable skill).

3.  Physical attraction and passion with an older man will never equal what a woman would feel with a good looking man her age.  And all women crave passion, yet with some women it is not as important as respect, understanding and trust plus those qualities that make life fun such as sense of humor.   It truly is different strokes for different folks.

4.  A very difficult problem associated with age difference is the fact that the man and woman are at two different stages of life.  What she wants to do with her life may not dovetail with what he wants to do.  Conflict resolution skills and negotiation/compromise skills are needed and most RW do not seem very good at these - meaning the man has to be very flexible and patient and a good teacher.

5.  And finally, the source of the most problems:  young women change (or as they express it, women keep getting smarter).  An older man must be prepared for change and to change.  Many of the men who post on FSUW boards seem inflexible, and that trait would be a big problem.

[BC]

Wonder where Ray is during all of this discussion about his life.

shhhh... I'm just starting to catch up with his post count 

[Michelangelo]

The answer to your question will not be found here in this forum but instead somewhere between your heart and mind..

Brilliant.

[jb]

Hummmmm..... First off, I'm delighted T/G has found a woman who is "into" him, frankly I was beginning to worry on that score.  Next question is: "Is T/G really "into" vwrw?"

If the answer to that is "yes". then T/G has some planning to do.  Marriage is all about the mutual protection of the spouse.  Be it in this life, or reaching out from the grave with an insurance policy that effectively replaces the security she would have had if you were still around.

I completely agree with what Gator said, however, there are a couple of problems in doing this.

Insurance policies above the level of a "burial" policy for someone who is mid-60s are hard to come by and very expensive.  I don't care how healthy a man is.  The odds are against getting a substantial insurance policy if you are over 60.  Insurance companies don't take bets they know they are eventually gonna lose.

OK,, so you say T/G is independently wealthy and can leave her the bulk of his estate.  Well, I don't know about T/G's family, but I've seen my own relatives quibble over more than a few bones when it came to splitting up Grampa's ranchland and money.  Lawyers can bring out the greed in people when there a dead man's money to be shuffled about.  The best laid plans and the best drawn wills can, and are, contested everyday, with nobody winning but the lawyers.

I don't know anything about T/G's business, but vwrw needs some assurance that she won't be the only one left without a chair when the music stops.  To me, that would mean cash in accounts only she can access, royalty and operating interests in all businesses from which T/G draws income, pretty much an *Iron Clad* will, which all children from previous marriages have signed off on agreeing to the terms.  And once the die is cast, no changing the rules of the game...  In other words, she needs a soild pre-nuptual agreement that is completely front loaded.  I don't think she'll get it, but she should try.

Best case is; she could marry and T/G may be around until she's 80.  Worst case, she might marry and he'll kick the can in 6 months, whatever happens, she should not expect to go back to Russia worse off than she started.  T/G would need to ensure that fact while the lights are still on.

[Michelangelo]

vwrw needs some assurance that she won't be the only one left without a chair when the music stops.  To me, that would mean cash in accounts only she can access, royalty and operating interests in all businesses from which T/G draws income, pretty much an *Iron Clad* will, which all children from previous marriages have signed off on agreeing to the terms. 

Very good points, JB.  And I think it applies to every man here who is married to an FSU girl, no matter what the age difference. It is something I have thought of and are making plans for. 

After all, the guy could die from an auto accident at any minute or at any age.

[Bruno]

Wonder where Ray is during all of this discussion about his life.

On the plane, his way back to home... from Siberia to Moscow, from Moscow to USA... not really a short trip

Should not this thread be split as it has little to do with Turbo’s First dream tour.?

Why, it is a following... If when he is back, Turbo can choice to split it of not... it is his topic after all

[Sohkay]

Good points Bruno.

It sounds like someone is maybe being a little inflexible!

[Albert]

3.  Physical attraction and passion with an older man will never equal what a woman would feel with a good looking man her age.  And all women crave passion, yet with some women it is not as important as respect, understanding and trust plus those qualities that make life fun such as sense of humor.   It truly is different strokes for different folks.

- - - -

Excellent post by Gator.  I know that Bruno (and others) would be disappointed if I didn't speak to the passion issue.  I wonder if Gator was reluctant to use the word sex for fear someone would mistake him for me.  :-))

Anyway I object to some of the above quote.  Of course upon reflection, Gator probably already knows he made a mistake by using the word 'never.'  Past threads here have demonstrated very well that there is a tremendous difference across the guys with respect to their interest in sex.  Some in their 50s and 60s are much more into sex than others in their 20s and 30s.

Just this week in the Dear Abby column was a letter from a 20s gal married to a guy in his 20s.  She was bemoaning fact he wasn't into sex and wondering what she could do.

Also, as Gator points out, the woman is also in this equation.  She may or may not have a high sex drive and is more into the respect, understanding and trust issues.

This is why I keep trying to point out that both parties need to have very early discussions about the sex issue just the same as they discuss other issues.  Yet most here contend that you should never discuss this with the woman . . . . until some time later . . . . or perhaps never discuss it . . . . just get married and see how things work out.

[Albert]

I know many (most) here will think this seems a little cold hearted, but I am not sure why there should be so much emphasis put on trying to set this or any gal up in a situation where she would be considered fairly wealthy by standards related to her past.

Yes, some insurance money is good; an education for her to make it on her own is even better.  But assigning her parts of businesses, shares of inheritance with children who have been part of family for 40-50 years, etc., that seems to be going a little too far.

I go for jb's comment that: "she should not expect to go back to Russia worse off than she started."  I would go a little further and want to ensure that she was at that stage plus something to reflect the years of job progress and promotions that she might miss out on if she is a stay at home wife in USA.

I have had discussions with one Ukrainian woman along these lines.  She wanted to work a few more years to get in the minimum years needed for the government pension in Ukraine.  I won't want her to continue working.  So she is checking into how one goes about paying a lump sum into the system to compensate for the years she will be short.  I would pay this sum.  I would also pay into her private savings each year an amount that equals what she would be able to save each year from her own working.  Then, when I pay all of our expenses, she will be in the same financial position she would be in if she continued to work.  Plus, she won't have to work (outside the house) at all.  And she will be living at a much higher life style re housing, food, clothes, vacations, etc.  We are not considering marriage and we wouldn't be living in USA.

[vwrw]

Ray is on his “business trips” to Yekaterinburg and to Moscow :-). He will come to home on Monday. 
Yes, Gator, passion with an older man will not equal what a woman would feel with a good looking man her age. In my case the passion with Turbo was 100% better! I will discuss with Turbo another of your thoughts and JB thoughts too. Thanks. JB, if a man says a woman – Marry me! Does it mean he is really “into” her? I think “yes”.
Turbo is not wealthy. He can afford to travel a lot only because he does not spend his money others directions. If Turbo were wealthy I could not worry about my future. In Russia people say – “he is only 50 y.o.; she is already 25 y.o. Only being a invalid scares me more than the perspective to begin my life’s building newly when I will be 45 y.o.       

[Bruce]

Well VWRW - at least we know you are into him and seriously worried about the age difference between the two of you.   I believe VWRW stands for very worried russian woman.  They have a saying in the islands:  "Don't worry, be happy!"  Think of that the next time you think of Turbo.  Thanks for clarifying for me what you wrote  . 

[jb]

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I'm of the opinion that when a man asks a woman to marry there is an implied promise to care for her and to protect her.   IMHO to marry, and then die and leave her penniless is to renege on that implied promise.

I'm not saying a woman should become as rich as Midas, or that your insurance policy should be viewed the same as a winning lottery ticket where she becomes an instant millionaire, the moment you croak.  There might be the temptation to hasten you along if that were the case.   But, OTOH, as she ages she also can have health problems which may need to be covered.   Having her insured under your health care plan at your place of work is a good thing until you die, but then, what is she supposed to do afterwards?   She may elect to remain in the States and run her husband's share of the business, if applicable, and there's sufficient income there to support herself.

There's all kinds of estate planning ideas out there, perhaps we should have another thread devoted to that concept.  Certainly it is something to think about.

[Michelangelo]

if a man says a woman – Marry me! Does it mean he is really “into” her? I think “yes”.

Yes, it does mean he is "really into you."  Over a three year period, I met more than 50 Russian girls.  But I only asked one girl to marry me.

So with these words, he is showing you what he thinks of you.  Congrats, again. 

[Michelangelo]

Yes, Gator, passion with an older man will not equal what a woman would feel with a good looking man her age. In my case the passion with Turbo was 100% better!

You are not alone when thinking older, more experienced men are better.  For example, looking at celebrities in the US; Billy Joel is married to a 21 year old girl. 

And Scarlett Johansson, about the same age, prefers older men (like Bill Murray).  Some might say it's because of money, not passion.  But in Scarlett's case, she has her own money :-)

[viking]

I have a deep respect for Ray. We have spoken many times. I believe he is the type of man who will ensure that his bride will be taken care of and that should something happen to him, she will not need to worry about her future. And if someone has assets such as real estate, stocks, a business, and so forth, insurance may not be as important as to some one else, who might be mortaged to the hilt, no pension, 401K, etc..

[Son of Clyde]

Viking, I feel the same about Ray. We met him when he was doing a show at the Convention Center, in Baltimore and he took us to dinner. I would say from meeting him that Turboguy looks at least 10 years younger than his chronological age. Age is a relative thing if the woman accepts you for who you are and does not see this as a problem. You guys can argue this point for all eternity but the final word is Turbo's and the lady he chooses to spend his life with.

[KenC]

You are not alone when thinking older, more experienced men are better.  For example, looking at celebrities in the US; Billy Joel is married to a 21 year old girl. 

And Scarlett Johansson, about the same age, prefers older men (like Bill Murray).  Some might say it's because of money, not passion.  But in Scarlett's case, she has her own money :-)

Michelangelo,
That was just a movie!  It was only pretend.  However, a young Miss Scarlett (19 at the time)  did "get busy" with Benicio Del Toro (39) in an elevator a while back. 
KenC

[Michelangelo]

Michelangelo,
That was just a movie!  It was only pretend.  However, a young Miss Scarlett (19 at the time)  did "get busy" with Benicio Del Toro (39) in an elevator a while back. 
KenC

LOL
Actually, I saw her on the David Letterman show 6 months after Lost in Translation, and that's where she told Dave she liked older guys, and specifically Bill Murray.  But maybe she was "acting" then--giving guys like us hope 

[Turboguy]

Where's Turboguy.   Here I am.   I just checked into the Ukraina Hotel in Moscow.   At 10 roubles a minute this post will be pretty short.    This was all a surprise to me.   I could not get on the internet for a few days and started to read all this on my Blackberry on the way to the hotel.

Hi My darling!

If there are any questions about my being into her, there should not be.  She is the most wonderful gal I have met in my life.   If there are any questions about her being into me, I think they have no foundation.

I would never want to influce her decision about what is right for her.  I will say this much.  There are no guarantees in life.   You can marry someone 20 and they can be killled crossing the street on your wedding day.   My great grandfather made it to 98.  If we end up together I sure would want to do all I could to make it last as long as possible and to me 10 20 30 whatever good years are better than 50 bad ones or so so ones. 

The day after I left Barnaul, I was sitting in my hotel room, alone and feeling about as alone as I have have in my life.   I hand wrote a TR on this, which helped me feel closer and helped me relive those 5 wonderful days.  I don't know how much of it I will post but I may post a bit.  The last night was really funny.   We were both up laughing about RWD for half the night.   When I can get on a computer that is not 10 roubles a minute like the business center at the hotel I will say a few more things but I will say that I have never been so happy as when I was in Barnaul.   

Well, I need to get out of the business center so I can afford another trip to Barnaul if that is what the future holds.

[viking]

Hey TG

The Hotel Ukainia is where I stayed when I was in Moscow. Yeah the computers are a bit expensive but 10 rubles is not terrible. The food sucks in the dining room though. Hope you got a decent room!!! Take a walk down to the river. Its a bit dirty but a nice walk. I am hoping this may be your last trip except for the pickup back to the states. Good luck.
(and be careful by the bar)

[Turboguy]

I am back on my Blackberry now. The last post cost me ten bucks. I did want to thank everyone for the nice comments. I want to get approval from higher authorities what I can and can't say but I think the full story of our RWD discussion is sort of funny. If she allows me to share it when I can get to an internet cafe or get home I will. If she thinks it is too personal then it shall remain our secret.

[Michelangelo]

Sounds like you found a great gal, Turbo!  Congrats!

p.s.  Time to change out your avatar pic :-)  LOL

[Turboguy]

Thanks Michaelangelo. She is the most special person I have ever met. The avitar gets changed as soon as I get home.

[wiz]

Turbo

Congradualtions in finding that special woman....... I hope everything works for you OK.

Going to Russia for 4 weeks next Friday!

Regads
Yannis

[Turboguy]

Thanks Wiz. Have a great trip. I wilk give you some advice. Dress warm!!!