wads of $$ vs. small ATM transactions

[wendaaaal]

Would like to hear some other's experiences on this. I've never been a fan of bringing wads of dollars to Ukraine or Russia. It's a lot of hassle, finding "good looking money" at the bank here, having to use the red lane and/or filling out "declaratsia", worrying where to stash it, etc.
 I've preferred to bring small amounts of dollars, then make many small transactions at ATMs. I've never had a fraud problem, but the fees seem to be getting out of hand. My credit union resisted any fees for a long time, but now they charge a 1% "Visa international transaction fee".
 On my recent trip to Kharkov and Sevastopol, all my transactions seemed to post right at 5 grivnas to the dollar, then the 1% fee was added on. I had pretty good luck finding ATMs that didn't charge their own fees. The only one that charged me a fee (also 1%) was KPB Bank in Kharkov. They also had the sneaky "no receipt available" screen come up . I also had this happen at a Privatbank, but I can see from my statement they charged no fee.
 Banks in Ukraine that didn't charge a fee at the ATM this summer:
 Privatbank (many locations throughout Ukraine), OJSC Real Bank, Ukrsotsbank, Ukrsibbank (many locations), Pravex Bank (many locations), Bank Forum.
 Would like to hear anyone's strategies for avoiding the fees on this end, while still having the transactions clear at a decent rate. Otherwise, I guess I'll have to look at carrying wads of "good looking" bills. Cheers, Wendell in Austin

[Albert]

The fees are a minor problem of using ATMs in FSU.  Your real problem will come in when you find large amounts of cash missing from your account through unauthorized withdrawals.  I was a happy camper using ATMs in FSU for many trips . . . . but I no longer use them.  I have posted previously about having several thousand taken from my account that was later restored by my bank.  But my bank now says they will no longer restore if I use an ATM in FSU again.

And this loss of money has nothing at all to do with the simple schemes you many have heard about concerning slips placed in ATM machines, someone watching you punch in your account info etc.  The real problem is corruption within the banking system.  Bright computer jocks within the banks corral your info when you use an ATM machine.  They sell this info to others who manufacture the plastic cards and sell them on to others along with your PIN.

The news reports of the killing in Moscow point out the corruption within the banking system of Russia, but it is widespread throughout the FSU.

Of course many will report long usage of ATMs in FSU with no problems.  I also would have given the thumbs up before time finally caught up with me.

Computer jocks used to say something like there are two types of people:  1) Those who have lost some data and 2) those who will lose some data.

[RESQU]

Wendell,

I agree with you that carrying the "wad" was a bit of a hassle.  I used cash and ATM's.  I have only been to Russia, so I cannot comment on Ukraine.  I found the fees from my bank for ATM in Russia to be pretty high.  I took $5k for a month trip in Russia.  I mostly took new $100.00 bills and about $400.00 in $50's and $20's for times when maybe $100 was too big.  I never had a problem getting the $100 bills changed to Rubles at a good bank.  I split my bills into 3 envelopes and also kept a very small amount in my wallet.  I kept $ in my wallet so that if I was held up or "given the business" by the militsia, I could open my wallet and say "this is all the money I have."  When I rented an apt. I would split the $ I didn't need for a day up and hide it in different places in the APT.  PM me if you want to know where I hid it! LOL My favorite place I dint want to post on the internet.  I did exchange about $3 k into rubles the first city I went to.  It was a pain in the A## but I split it up between pockets and even some in my shoes.  Because of the ATM fees I was charged by my bank, I am planning to just take cash again for my next trip in November.  I think also it depends what cities you visit.  I was afraid to rely so much on my ATM because if the card was lost or stolen, getting money or a replacement from my bank would have been very difficult.  Just my 2 cents.

[BillyB]

I bought a camera off e-bay from a guy. I bought many more around e-bay from the same guy. I then got a call from Amazon.com fruad agency that said I was buying merchandise that was purchased from stolen credit cards. The guy was located in Spain although the credit cards were from Americans. The deal is he makes at least one purchase with the credit cards before anyone finds out. Usually the vicitim doesn't know the credit card is stolen since the victim is still in possession of the credit card. The theif must have stolen credit card info from tourists in Spain. Minimize the use of your credit cards when traveling in the FSU, never let it out of your site if you hand it to someone to purchase items. It is near impossible to catch foreign thieves and stop foreign credit card scams.

[Michelangelo]

I have had zero problems using ATM cards in Ukraine this summer. Zero.

I use Bank of America, and they send me an email to my Blackberry every time the card is used, so I have tight control over the card.

If someone other than my girl or I use it, I will know within an hour.

[Phil dAmore]

Don't carry any more cash than you have to.  Ever.  The cops can smell cash on you from 50 meters away.  The gypsies and pickpockets are even worse.

Using the ATM you will avoid having to pay the extra commission at the currency exchange because the money can be dispensed in local currency.   This  may or may not offest the foreign ATM fee.  Either way I don't see how it's much of an issue.  After all you spent HOW much to get a visa, fly over, rent an apartment... and you're griping about an extra dollar or two in ATM fees? 

Data theft does happen but your bank at home should have a program in place that will help minimize the risk.  Ask about it.

Never use your credit card or debit card to pay for anything.  That's asking for trouble.

[TwoBitBandit]

Don't carry any more cash than you have to.  Ever.  The cops can smell cash on you from 50 meters away.  The gypsies and pickpockets are even worse.

Odd, I've spent a total of about twelve weeks in the FSU carrying large amounts of money all the time, and have never been shaken down.

Perhaps I'm just lucky.

[Phil dAmore]

It would appear that some are luckier than others...

I've a good friend that can't seem to come to Petersburg without having something stolen or being shaken down. However in Moscow he has no such problems.  Very strange.

Perhaps a deciding factor in whether or not you get shaken down is how well (or not) you blend in.

just a thought....

[Rvrwind]

I've been here 3 years & use my ATM card extensively for the buisness & my personal use & have never had a problem. My only problem was with my Visa Card & the bank caught that right away. Since then I no longer use credit cards but use my ATM card exclusively.

[LatinSwede]

It would appear that some are luckier than others...

I've a good friend that can't seem to come to Petersburg without having something stolen or being shaken down. However in Moscow he has no such problems.  Very strange.

Perhaps a deciding factor in whether or not you get shaken down is how well (or not) you blend in.

just a thought....

In Odessa, I changed abounch of money into Hrvna.  When I turned down the main street, a kid was walking right next to me begging.  I kept telling him no  and ducked into a cafe.  I'm nervous about carrying large amounts of money anywhere.  Also with my Latin American roots, I've been accustomed to see beggars more of a sign of danger, than an object of pity.   

[gumby510]

I usually just put the required minium amount to withdraw from. Usually like 110.$ That way after my wife withdraws money theres like 20 bucks left in the account.

[Turboguy]

I always take cash.   I have a sock safe I transport part in when I go and hide the money in 3 or 4 different locations while I am there.   Often some in a dirty sock in a pile of dirty clothes, some behind a flap in my shaving kit that makes it totally invisible and a few more spots I like.   

Of course it is always good to remember where you hid it.  The last trip I thought I had run out of money till I remembered the sock.

I don't like the limits or fees on ATM's and worry if something when wrong.  Of course I have not even used an ATM here in over 10 years either.   

[groovlstk]

Here's the ultimate traveller's safe (warning: it's not pretty!):

http://www.shomer-tec.com/site/product.cfm?id=99887213-F553-E130-7F2BE5BED6A1828B

[SANDRO43]

Here's the ultimate traveller's safe (warning: it's not pretty!):http://www.shomer-tec.com/site/product.cfm?id=99887213-F553-E130-7F2BE5BED6A1828B

You didn't mention its MAJOR advantage : it makes one look much more ENDOWED .

But it's unfairly revenue-discriminant (the larger the roll of dough ... ).