Hi! I've Been Away...My Experiences and Need Feedback

[Infoman]

I was here a few months ago...some of you may remember me as the guy that foolishly got "involved" with a Ukrainian woman (via Absolute Agency - yes, I know....I met her when I didn't know any better through that site)...daily letters, phone calls to Ukraine, we decided to meet in Paris, I sent her about $750 USD, she never showed, etc., etc., etc.

Well, since that time, discouraged as I might be, I forged ahead and put that behind me.  I'll try to make a long story short and say that during this time, I joined a couple of sites, and got more than I bargained for...(a) because I really wasn't "ready" to make any kind of trip to Russia or Ukraine; (b) because a couple of these sites milk your bank account dry; (c) because I found a couple of scammers here and there and "unethical things" happening; (d) at the couple of sites, I met so many women that I can not keep up with the correspondence, money-wise or time-wise.

In a nutshell, my observations on my experiences with a couple of sites - and it should be noted that I have learned much about some of these sites right here at RWD and from jimslists.com, albeit AFTER I started corresponding with some women...but I'm at the point now where I am ready and willing to break immediate ties to any of these sites in lieu of an agency that I can trust, which is seemingly very hard to find....

a)  I have spent the most time at russianlovematch.com and the most money.  I met a ton of women there, and yes, I have read everything now about them and their sister sites.  While I still feel that they "appear" to be on the up-and-up (yes, I know - women on at 3 am - I got some of them to wave to me to prove it wasn't a tape ;-) ), it's just too much damn money to keep forking over $199 for this BS credits system.  I am in correspondence with many women there, and I really like them, but even if it came down to it, I cannot visit 4 women in Odessa, 3 in Kiev, 2 in St. Petersburg, etc.

b)  Anastasiaweb.com - found that their member agencies had sent "blind matchmaking letters" on behalf of some women (know that because I was corresponding with one for a while at rlm and received an intro letter from same women (didn't pay for it) at anastasiaweb.  Also, learned today that a women that I had corresponded with at aw months ago - that I met again at another site - doesn't know who I am.  And at $5/$6 per sent or received letter, hell...I'm thinking lawsuit, pending what I find out.

c) Russian-women.net - part of a network that appears to be on the upper end of trust, as far as what I have learned over time, but again, it's a MINIMUM of $5 per send and receive - and that's for a lady that KNOWS Eglsih.  Don't ask what it costs for translations.  Money pit.  This is the site where the woman who I corresponded with at aw.com send me a "interested in you" notification, who now, apparently, denies sending that.  Don't know what's up with that yet.

d)  loveme.com / A foreign affair - Seems like one of the better ones for a variety of reasons.  Weekly conference calls to answer any and all questions regarding FSU ladies, and weekend conf. calls with actually ladies.  It seemed fine until one day, after sending an intro letter to one lady, it turned out that the reply to me was NOT sent by her - actually, two replies.  When I learned of this (because first letter was very nice followed by a second letter "not interested" - and I questioned them), it was verified through loveme.com that someone from this particular agency did, indeed, falsify the replies.  I demanded an investigation on this, which I was promised I would get full details on, but got tired of waiting to hear word...so I left.

Yes, to be honest, I am very discouraged and much lighter in the wallet, all for naught current day.  Hell, even a supposed anti-scam site like anti-scam.org is * apparently * a scam itself, based on what I read at jimslists.com.  I was married to a wonderful, sweet, loving local girl in the 90s - best thing that even happened to me - but she passed away suddenly and unexpectedly right after New Year's Day, 1999, and it took me until 2006 to get over the shock.  I got very discouraged in the women I was meeting, and lack thereof, at yahoo, match.com, mate1.  I thought about trying eharmony, but I was already discouraged by these other sites and figured it would be much of the same, though I don't know that to be true.  Generally, for the true FSU lady that is sincere about meeting a foreign man, I really do love everything they stand for, and I still would like to meet one great lady.  And I know I can do it.  Just turning 47, I am having a hard time coming to grips with, say, a lady in her early 30s that wants to have children; I just don't know if I should be starting a family with babies and such at my age.  There are plenty of women with children already, and that's fine.  The issue isn't so much the lady, it's where I can turn for the most safety I can get while using some website / agency.  Maybe that in itself is an oxymoron, but for all things considered, I have heard nothing but great things about Elena's Models and truth be told, probably should have joined there and stayed there.  I would saved LOTS of money, and I don't think that the cost of their membership is unreasonable at all, especially in light of what the others charge.  Furthermore, they seem to be the most trustworthy of them all.  You will find a scammer or two or more at any one of these sites, but I think that the GOOD agencies do everything they can to prevent that and that it's impossible to prevent it 100% of the time...it's how quick they will act on a "bad one".

So, as it stands (some "long story short", huh? ;-)  ", I am frustrated and just looking for some healthy opinions without being attacked for a little stupidity while learning.  Nobody is more upset about these things than I am.  I just don't want to spend any more time or money being aggrevated with these undesirable websites / agencies.  I'm just tired of it all and I'm really thinking of dropping everything and going to EM....POSSIBLY loveme.com as I do feel that they try to do their best and were genuinely upset with what had happened with my one "contact" there.  I understand that you can not please all of the people all of the time..and one of you may tell me to forget all of these sites and just go on some tour to, say, Odessa to meet many women at once, but I don't think I want to do that.  I want to find someone that has some potential that I would like to visit one-on-one, should it go that far, to really see if something special can happen.  I don't mind corresponding with a couple of women, but this "talking to 20 women" crap has to end.  It's not fair to them, and it's driving me insane.  I think it's a case of thinking with the wrong head sometimes, and everytime these sites added new women, I would always find a couple that seemed perfect.  It's never-ending.  I just cannot continue to do this.

So, thanks for reading my rambling.  I just had to get this off my chest and need some fresh insight to a situation that is "troubling" right now.  I appreciate any opinions and constructive criticism.  This was hard to write, and I don't know any of you personally, but hopefully, I can get through this without scathing remarks from some knucklehead who wants to push my face further in the mud.

Thanks!

"Joe"  (not real name - changed to protect the innocent    )

By the way....just read the "Best of Intentions..." thread, and that scared me to the point of possibly giving this up altogether.  I hope that was just a major "exception to the rule".  And I know it's off-topic, but it leads me to wonder....HOW can you know a FSU lady well enough to be able to make major decisions?

[Vaughn]

Infoman,

 That took some major guts to post - but unloading was what you needed to do, and you certainly didn't hold back. First of all, I cannot fathom how any man can juggle so many women all at once - I'd go bonkers! Secondly, at the start of my own correspondence, I was aware of the "big sites" but had this gut feeling that any agency handling thousands of women couldn't possibly know very many of them - sort of like a clearinghouse concept.

it was verified through loveme.com that someone from this particular agency did, indeed, falsify the replies.

 In my book, they're toast - glad you've dumped them. I've only heard about Elena'sModels - and it's mostly good feedback. RussianLoveMatch is chock full o' bells and whistles - maybe it's just me, but I prefer the old telephone call to videostreaming anyday.
There are smaller agencies where you pay as you go - no membership fees at all, or extremely reasonable ones. I discount any testimonials that cannot be verified - I prize those that can, namely, those from friends and acquaintances. It's no secret that my wife was listed on yoshkar-ola-sweethearts.com, and that I've know the owner, Natasha Borisova, personally for five years now. Her ex-partner, Larisa Zhukova, opened up another agency called ayobride.com. We dined with both ladies last June just to catch up on news and trade notes. While neither has hundreds in their respective galleries, and neither can 100% guarantee the sincerity of any one woman's true and innermost intentions, they are both straight shooters, and their ladies are real. A quick check of both sites reveals expenses far lower than the megasites.

 My wife and I have also been inside Maksim's Introductions, mainly to deliver gifts and documents - his is a larger agency with many offered "programs" - be that as it may - his listings are real, we've met (or know) quite a few of them, and we count about a dozen married couples among our friends who met through Maksim.

  I've been particularly impressed of late with Richard's (of Tver)
posts regarding his passionate portrayal of his own sound business ethics and practice. His is another agency I'd tend to check seriously.

  Again, it's only me, but I'd limit myself to writing six or fewer at a time, and make the phone number harvest my priority. For three cents a minute you'll cover far more ground than the $5 letters ever could. Don't lose heart, but reexamine your tactics (as you seem to be doing).

  It didn't escape me that you lost your wife at a very young age,
and I'm glad (and impressed) that you've mounted a successful recovery over time. My sincerest best wishes are yours.

Vaughn

[Infoman]

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your kind post, Vaughn.  That's exactly the kind of response I was hoping to get.  Hope there's more coming!     I totally agree with you on the phone thing, and if I'm not mistaken, that's a plus for EM because I can get contact details from the ladies without having to use these other sites outrageous phone fees, if they even offer it.  I will check out the other agencies you mentioned, too.  Yes, re-examinng the tactics and keeping the number of women down to a workable size is key.  The problem is that I am a caring guy with a heart, and maybe I'm looking into it too much, but I would hate to absruptly leave some of these women "high and dry" and then have them think of me as just another jerk.  I'm truly not, it was my mistake to get involved with too many women, but I think that a total cutoff and restart is the only choice I have.  I'm not putting myself on a pedestal by any means, but I hope that they will just forget and move on, knowing that in this type of thing, "sh*t happens" sometimes.  Look at it this way...there was one lady from Kiev that I REALLY liked, and supposedly, she really like me...chatted with her a few times, but due to her schedule, she only once wrote me a letter.  We were at the point where we were considering meeting...then, two days later, I see all saved correspondence from this gal, and her profile, were gone.  When I asked the website /agency what was going on, the word from her agency was that "she is in a relationship".  And then...what could I do?  Nothing.  Be angry?  Perhaps...but that lasted about 10 minutes, because I realize that this can be part-and-parcel of meeting a FSU woman via the internet.  Oh, well...so I move on again....a bit poorer, but hopefully, a bit smarter.  Sure, it bothers me to know that leaving the couple of sites that I mentioned, I may truly be missing out on some wonderful women, but they are around, and I will surely find one for me...at a safe, respectable site.

Thanks again, Vaughn.   Anyone else have 2 cents or more they'd like to add?  I would love to hear what you have to say on all of this.

Joe

[BillyB]

I am frustrated and just looking for some healthy opinions without being attacked for a little stupidity while learning. 

Infoman,

You and I've seen other newbies want to be successful in this endeavor yet walk through a minefield without a map. Ask questions, the people here have a map. We could save you time, money and heartache. Most of the agencies you've used have really bad reputations and yes the antiscam.org is a questionable anti scam site since army of brides are in it with them. I've seen many guys on these forums think they can outsmart bad agencies. They think they can outsmart the scammers too. They don't realize if they paid to open just one letter that was written by an agency employee, they are scammed by the agency itself. How can a man be successful if the agency he uses is ripping him off and playing tricks?

Believe it or not but this is all so simple and as easy as 1+1=2. If you understand what you're dealing with, and avoid the crap, all there's left is to find a woman that's compatible with you. Why get involved with companies that shaft guys in the ass? Why take a chance? If it's ignorance, then get educated.

If anybody out there is using an agency that is interferring or making it difficult with a woman you're corresponding with by preventing you two from exchanging private e-mails or phone numbers, let me know and I'll tell you how to get around them.

I'm engaged but if I had to do it all over again, I will not have the problems you've been through. Infoman, your story is educational and I appreciate you telling it for others to learn from but I am disappointed that you got scammed in Paris and then joined bad agencies. The results are discouraging but didn't have to be. I want you and others to be successful and find your happiness and the last thing I want is to see you feed the sharks whether it be a scamming woman or agency. Good people should be dealing with good people.

Here's my trip report and maybe a few things I did will work for you too.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1303.0

[Infoman]

Thanks so much for the candid response, Billy.  I totally agree with you and feel like an idiot...I really do.  I should have spent more time getting the true stories and knowledge here, for one, first-hand before diving into other bad situations.  Well, I guess maybe I was a little slower than some would have been regarding meeting a Russian woman, but better I learn late than never.  Life is a constant learning experience, and this is no exception.  Yes, I wish I could have the time, money, and aggrevation back, but it's gone - past history.  Like I had to do with life in general, the past will pass, and I am bound and determined to move forward and have the end result that I was longing for in the first place.  Armed with more knowledge, I will "change things' for the better.  The only thing that really bothers me now is that as I mentioned in my previous reply, I saw no other way to stop correspond with many ladies other than to cut it off completely.  But I just read something at Maxsim's introductions site, where he has a sample letter to use for just such a situation, calling anyone that just stops writing "a coward".  Geez...I really don't want to be like that, and I hate myself for it, but do I pay yet ANOTHER $300 or so to save face and live with a semi-clear concience?  Well, I guess that's something I will have to figure out.  For the meantime, it's best for me to remove myself from the sites that I mentioned and get into something better...very possibly EM.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply. I really appreciate it.

Joe

[TwoBitBandit]

Here's my recommendation, for what it's worth.

Stop writing letters and get on the plane.

Sign up with a REPUTABLE agency (I'm not going to name any, but you can figure out who is reputable and who is not by reading posts on this board and others.)

Fly over and meet a bunch of women.  Get your feet wet and find out what the women and the culture are like.  Try to decide if you're really up for this.

Once you've made a trip, everything will become much clearer for you.

[catzenmouse]

Infoman,

 Believe it or not your story is not a "one in a million" scenario. Many people have had similar experiences to yours. When I first started on this journey the initial information that I got was typical agency hype, then I found some of the discussion groups which gave me a bit more knowledge and understanding, then I got in contact with a few people who had actually done this and was armed with more information and knowledge, then I went to Russia. Very little that I read about or learned from others prepared me for the reality of being "in country". Sure, I knew how to get something to eat and get around but not for the total reverse outlook (not exactly correct but I couldn't think of any other way to say it) culture that I was in the middle of. Before I got my feet on the ground there I did a lot of the same things that you have written about. Too many letters from too many different places until I finally just picked a place and went.

 I don't remember if you have been to the FSU or just to Paris. If you have not been to the FSU then I think that TwoBitBandit is right on the money about just going there and getting your feet wet. Don't worry about writing much or at all before you go. If you want to you can take some local agency contact info with you and meet a couple of ladies when you are there.

 And yes, you should send a note to the ladies you are no longer interested in writing to. Yes, it is easier and cheaper to not bother anymore and just drop it, but it is not the right thing to do.

 There is no guarantee in this adventure. Some folks have done everything right and either never found "the one" or had "the one from hell", others have done everything wrong and found the perfect woman for them. Myself, I spent a lot of time walking around the minefield with the blind fold on, stepped on a few mines that luckily were duds and I still ended up with a woman who is way too good for me and the best woman/partner/friend that I could have ever dreamed of. I could just as easily be writing Maxx's story I guess if luck had gone the other way for me.

 There are good agencies spoken of here. If I was just starting this I would not hesitate to use Richard's (Rvrwind) or Bill & Hellen (Lviv) both of I whom I know fairly well. Others have had good luck with LTP and Cindy, Vaughn mentioned a couple on Yoshkar-Ola and I trust his opinion highly.

 Read and learn but in the end GO!

Best of luck,
 Ken

[SANDRO43]

If anybody out there is using an agency that is interferring or making it difficult with a woman you're corresponding with by preventing you two from exchanging private e-mails or phone numbers, let me know and I'll tell you how to get around them.

BillyB, I am sure many others would be interested to know how, unless it's something you'd rather not share publicly. I have my own method(s), and I'd like to compare notes .

[beattledog]

I enjoyed reading about your experinces.  Like most of the men, I have used the agency route.   They are great when you are first starting to get to know the customs of the country, and have never traveled to the country.  They do help you over many of the obstacles that anyone is concerned with the first time on their  visit.  Many of the agencies are very honest with both the men and the agencies.   A good agency will weed out the bad and dishonest women, as well as the men.   In writing to many women, some men do this to increase the options, not desiring to waste time,  only on one woman.  I have done the same thing.  One time two women knew each other.  There were pissed at me.  I got dumped by both of them  That is life.  I would prefer to find a woman not with an agency, but a friends of someone that you know.  I think that this increases a person's chance of success in the relationship, as the friend of  both people understand and  know what each person is looking for in their future spouse. A good example of this is Art Bell, on Coast to Coast.  His wife Romona, died last December due to an asthma attack.  He met his future wife, a 26 year old teacher from the Phillipines.  He married  her in May and has moved to Manila.  Both of them were friends with the same people.  Art is 60 years of age.  We never know where we will or how we will meet that special person that we will take for a spouse

Beattledog

[bgreed]

Infoman,

I'm one of those guys that have made the crappy agency rounds just like you (not exact same ones but you get the idea) dropped a Load with HRB/RLM.  The best thing I can say is go with the free sites or nearly free sites. Brides.RU , Freepersonal.RU Free-dating agency there are a bunch of them PM if you want more.  After my crash and burn in Odessa last year I decided to go the Billy B route and send out mass emails sit back and see what happened.  Well after some scammers (easy to spot) some that lost interest, some where I lost interest I found a wonderful lady that might be the one. So IMHO go the with the freesites cause there's gold there just takes a little digging to find it and no agency in the way.

[SANDRO43]

Infoman, for a list (not very up-to-date) of free sites you could check this page on my website :
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/elencositi-eng.htm
as a starter (all the usual cautions apply ).

[KenC]

Infoman,
I am sure that "barring your soul" here has provided some therapeutic relief for you.  That is a good thing, but what you went though is not uncommon and a good learning experience.  Now you know what not to do.  My best advice is to now forgetaboutit!!  If you feel too guilty without writing blow off letters to your previous correspondents, then step up and pay the piper and write them.  I will tell you though that probably most of the ladies you were writing to were also corresponding with other men.  Much like your sweetie in Kiev, these gals don't put all their eggs in one basket either (and they shouldn't).

It still isn't clear if you have been to the fsu yet or not.  I have to assume you have not.  Pick a good agency, developer a semi-relationship with one or a few, and get your butt on a plane!!  You see, you have been dancing around the perimeter and spending a buttload of denerio without even knowing what for.  THERE IS NOTHING THAT CAN REPLACE ACTUALLY GOING TO RUSSIA.  you probably could pull off a trip for $2-3K as long as you don't hit Moscow, so quit spending your money at $199 a pop and put it all toward a trip.

I sense that you are a decent man and that it is uncomfortable for you to "play" any woman.  Again, that is a good thing, but you need to understand the lay of the land a little better.  It is not deceptive to show some interest in a lady and then later cut it off when it seems like a dead end.  In fact, it is more deceptive to continue a correspondence when you know your heart really isn't in to it.

Give these RW a little more credit for knowing the drill too.  They know you are contacting others.  They know they are one of many.  They too are playing the game and meeting many.  So get over yourself a bit, because they are not pining away at their computer awaiting for the next email from Infoman.  In fact, the next guy that actually knocks on their door has priority over any Internet lover!
KenC

[BillyB]

BillyB, I am sure many others would be interested to know how, unless it's something you'd rather not share publicly. I have my own method(s), and I'd like to compare notes .

Some big agencies have computer programs to filter out e-mails and phone numbers. If I were to write a woman through an agency I didn't like, I'd tell her I'd like to mail her privately and say because the agency will remove mail addresses and phone this is my mail address- Joe at Yahoo dot com and tell her to remove the spaces between words and replace the words "at" and "dot" with the symbols. I would also let her know she could go to an internet cafe and set up a free mail account at mail dot ru. If your gal needs translation, explain to her there is an electronic translator at the site which she can personally translate your letter or translate her letter before sending it to you. If she doesn't understand computers very well, tell her to get assistance from an employee at the internet cafe. The goal here is to make this as easy as possible for her to move away from the agency assistance she may need. Also make sure all words in your letter are spelled correctly or the instructions wouldn't be understood.

To get her phone number, explain to her that you want to call her but the agency will not let people exchange phone numbers and will remove them from the letters. Ask her to send her phone number by spelling the letters such as one two three. Of course she may only give her local number and not write her international code since she may lack knowledge on how to call long distance but the guys here can help complete the number.

I gave these instructions to one guy on another forum and he did successfully get around the agency that was making his correspondence difficult with a woman

Big agencies do not have time to read through all letters but small agencies can and letters that are translated are read so it's harder to get around translators and small agencies. But one can PM me his woman's profile and I could Google her and she could be listed on another agency which will not control your correspondence with her.

If all else fails through self help, one can hire locals in the FSU. Stirlitz and Jack Bragg may have connections in the FSU near your gal and can personally go or send someone to her postal address and deliver your message of desiring private correspondence and a phone number. Or a flower delivery service can deliver the message too.

Bgreed, hope things work out for you. Your post make one realize they must go through a number of women to find a sincere woman that they match up well with. Writing just one woman to start with is like playing the lottery, not much chance in being a winner.

[SANDRO43]

Yes, BillyB, much along the lines I am following myself, only I enclose dots and @s in brackets. Small problem : many FSUW can't figure out what a "dot" is, they call (.) periods or full stops (punctuation marks).

Another way around is based on the fact that sites usually let your full name pass through. e.g. as signature. Mine being Sandro Floriani, I tell them to remove the DRO from my first name and join what's left over into a single word to get my nick (sanfloriani). I have a number of mail providers : one is called ALICE, so I refer to Lewis Carrol's famous book set in Wonderland (they usually get the allusion), the other is TIN, therefore I tell them to look up in their dictionary the English translation for OLOVO (not all of them get this ). Further, since my website address is based on my family name, too, that's another alternative.

But it's fun trying to get around censorship .

Another approach I tried was a very simple form of STEGANOGRAPHY (the art and science of writing hidden messages in such a way that no one apart from the intended recipient knows of the existence of the message, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steganography) : capitalising random letters in my text so that, when put together, they would form my address. Very little success (FSUW do not seem to have the small amount of patience required for this ).

One valuable result I got out of unsuccessful attempts (the FSUW alleging that this is too complicated, or that agency rules forbid passing personal information, or that she could only correspond through the agency for translation purposes) was that in most cases this proved that her correspondence was actually generated by a scam agency .

My conclusion was that if the FSUW was really interested, she would at least TRY to make sense of my attempts. Another conclusion was that although agencies usually threaten to remove offenders' profiles, scam agencies like YEVA4U don't bother (why kill the goose that lays the $$$ eggs, you're corresponding with agency staff anyway ?).

Maybe this deserves a separate thread ("How To Outfox Site Censorhip") ?

[BillyB]

My conclusion was that if the FSUW was really interested, she would at least TRY to make sense of my attempts.

True, but there are instances that some sincere women never gets to read men's letters because the agency reads it and responds for them! Other instances are some women get commisions for letters written and received and has no desire go around the agency that feeds them.

[viking]

Infoman

I am getting this incredible feeling of Deja Vu.

I posted several threads here about some personal experieneces that received a whole lot of feedback. And yes, one of them was a bit of a cartharsis as well. I understand exactly what you are going through. I have been to Russia several times and came home with my tail between my legs. Been a learning experience to say the least and am taking some time off to re-evaluate why it went wrong and how to fix it. Will send you a PM.

Viking

[BillyB]

I enclose dots and @s in brackets. Small problem : many FSUW can't figure out what a "dot" is, they call (.) periods or full stops (punctuation marks).

I am not sure but I don't think the dot/period is all that important unless sandwiched between two words as in an e-mail address but the @ symbol is important to a e-mail removing program so if you put "@" in your letter, the @ will be removed and the only thing left for your gal to read is " ". Regardless of what method is used, hopefully a man is writing to a smart enough woman who could figure it out.

[Maxx2]

By the way....just read the "Best of Intentions..." thread, and that scared me to the point of possibly giving this up altogether.  I hope that was just a major "exception to the rule".  And I know it's off-topic, but it leads me to wonder....HOW can you know a FSU lady well enough to be able to make major decisions?

I figure I will give you a couple of things to chew on. First about Gary in that one thread and about my American ex-wife in the large but worthwile to read paragraph below.

Gary lives in a small town in Iowa. Blink twice and you've passed it by. In this town there is another man, a high school teacher, that had the same exact thing happen to him.

Two nights ago I was talking with my American ex-wife about this dv for a Green card issue. She told me that at the medical clinic where she did her internship she noticed all these RW coming there for medical checkups etc. They were easy to spot because they dressed very stylish with pointy high heel shoes, manicured fingernails and had this one overweight interpreter always with them. Plus they were on government paid medical assistance. My ex thought that was odd because from their lack of English they couldn't have been in America long. So she asked her supervisor what was "up with all of this?" She was told they came from a woman's shelter named the Alexander house. The same one my RW-ex went to after I filed for the divorce. I asked my AW-ex how many of these women she would see on an average. I was expecting to hear "one or two a week". No, she said on an average it was about 3 a day. 3 a day in one shelter in little ol Minnesota. Multiply this times 50 and even more when there usually is several shelters in each State. Then factor in about 10,000 abuse petitions will be filed with the USCIS this year. It's impossible to come up with any relable statistic but it should make one think that a failed or failing marriage to a RW/UW before issuance of the GC is one risky thing.

Maxx

[Maxx2]

I could just as easily be writing Maxx's story I guess if luck had gone the other way for me.

Yes luck does play a factor. A RW matchmaker named Natasha Spivak told me that she has been surprised herself when some of her ladies suddenly flipped and became GCGs. These are women she checked out. Talked to face to face. Natasha has studied psychology and does her best to check these ladies out. Yet they fooled her. They ended up doing the false dv thing on their American husbands.

Probably the safest way if you decide to get a wife out of the FSU is to find someone that is friends or relatives of someone you know and trust that lives there. A guy has to network. That leaves out of course picking a woman out of a catalog or a webpage. If finding a wife is based on limited factors of a certain age, look, hair color etc. it will make success in this very difficult.

Maxx 

[Vaughn]

I enclose dots and @s in brackets. Small problem : many FSUW can't figure out what a "dot" is, they call (.) periods or full stops (punctuation marks)......
Maybe this deserves a separate thread ("How To Outfox Site Censorhip") ?

 Interesting - I've noticed when Russian women relay their
e-mail addresses by telephone, they say "sobaka" to
enunciate the @ symbol, and "tochka" to
indicate the "dot". Sobaka means "dog" and tochka
means "point" or "period". Fictitious Example:

Elena27982 sobaka mail tochka ru = Elena27982@mail.ru

Many ladies sugar their nouns with diminutive forms, my
wife among them. I've heard her say "sobakochka"
(literally little dog <puppy?>) Geez, what people have to
go through (encryption, codes etc) to get past agency
control. Hell, I paid 10 dollars for my wife's complete
contact information on Week #2 and that pretty much
broke the agency's dam.

Info, I agree with Ken and the others - being there is
a whole better world than writing. Now you've gotta
figure out a destination that suits you.

[SANDRO43]

I wrote @ just out of laziness, I usually use (curly A) or (at), this is yet another symbol hard to convey in words to those unused to it. I never thought one could visualise a dog in that, good to know .

Spanish-speaking people are aided by their language into being even more partial to diminutives than Russians. The  "sobaka"- "sobakochka" sequence may go on almost indefinitely :

Perro - perrito - perritito - etc. 

Just add -ito/-ita to anything .

Geez, what people have to
go through (encryption, codes etc) to get past agency
control. Hell, I paid 10 dollars for my wife's complete
contact information on Week #2 and that pretty much
broke the agency's dam.

Vaughn, what I wrote about only applies in the case of agencies who will NOT give you direct contact info, but make you always go through them (and pay for the privilege).

[Infoman]

I don't know what to say, except you guys are wonderful and I should have stayed here to get educated from the very beginning.  You all have given me much to consider, and yes, I do understand that nothing compares to going there - which I intend to do for sure.  I think, at least for me, that I should have one or two relatively strong possibilities lined up vs. going there "blindly".  How does one meet available, quality women by going to Russia or Ukraine without "meeting" them first via correspondence?  I know this can be done because a number of you guys said so, but I just don't understand how the whole thing would work.  I will have to read and reread many posts here because I know it's been discussed many times.  Even so, I still don't know if I would go there until I was fairly serious with one or two women.  And actually, I am - at RLM - but there's a couple of problems: (a) I really don't want to spend another $199 there, yet I feel I should to at least tell these women that I am leaving the site - the "coded" email address thing some of you talked about, I really like...but will they understand?  Do they have access to be able to send regular emails?  Or are they bound by some agency rules to prevent someone like me converting to "free correspondence"?  Know what I mean? (b) Of the three or so women I am interested in...one lives in Moscow, one in Odessa, and one in Kiev; possible fourth in St. Pete.  How in the hell can I ever manage this?  One of the biggest issues I have is that on paper - letters, maybe chats, too - they all seem great, but I can't tell sh*t until I meet them and spend time with them.  That's the only way I'll ever know who I REALLY seem compatible with, who I REALLY like best, etc.  So, given a couple of women in different cities like this, how do I choose one over the other?  I can't - I could be missing out on "the one".  So, on top of everything, I have this to deal with.  And yes, I got myself into this mess.  That's why I am seriously thinking of starting over with a couple of women, probably at the only agency that seems to be fair, legit, and comparatively cost-effective - EM.  I still don't know how to handle the couple of women at RLM that I am interested in.    ???

As far as the free sites, geez...I don't know...maybe I'm wrong, but I have to believe that they are a haven for scammers and/or have outdated profiles...no services...no verifications, etc.  Seems like I would be getting into more bad situations, and I certainly don't want to do that.  Sandro...I saw your list and apparently, you included everything, because I see sites listed like cupidbay and absolute agency, which are two of the biggest scammer sites out there.  You even listed anastasiaweb - and I am in the middle of comfirming a major fraud committed against me from them (or one or more of the agencies they used).  So, I am very skeptical to use ANY site now with the exception of EM.  But also, as I said, I would like to find out how one like me decides on where to go for the very first time - say, St. Pete - and then, how does one "go there and meet available women"?   Obviously, it's nothing like it would be here, and I am a literal babe in the woods as I have never been to FSU - only to Paris in May where this &*%^(*&*& screwed me - figuratively.

Again, you all have given me much to consider.  I'm done with AW - wish I could sue them.  RLM - I WANT to be done, but I owe a letter to many and I don't know what to do with the few I really like.  EM - I may be joining very soon.  "Blind" travel to a big city in Russia or Ukraine?  Scares me at the moment if I am considering doing that wihtout having anyone I truly want to meet.  But here's a thought...and by the way, a couple of you mentioned something about "my sweetie" or "my girl" - I don't HAVE any official sweetie or girl in FSU - just a couple that I am interested in at RLM.  The thought is this - I met a 33-year old blond through RLM by the name of Alina, out of Kiev.  I think she is wonderful, kind, sweet, beautiful - no children (that's neither here nor there) - she DOES want to meet, but in a first for me, SHE suggested that if I did come to Kiev, she would want me to meet a couple more women while I am there just in case things didn't work as planned for us.  You can't imagine how much I appreciated that coming from Alina.  That makes me like her all the more and that certainly doesn't sound like any kind of scammer to me.  Another women I met I really like is Elena - 38 - from Moscow with a little girl (3 years old).  She is also extremely sweet and kind, very funny (love that!) - beautiful, intelligent (they both are very intelligent) - and when I insisted buying her a couple of gifts, including a little toy for her daughter, she was very concerned that it would be too expensive for me and that she didn't want me to outlay any cash for gifts.  Again, another DECENT, NORMAL, WONDERFUL girl in my eyes - and for her, I was only too happy to do it.  I just don't know what to do - many decisions to be made.   Aaaarrrggghh!   Sorry...again, I am starting to ramble on...it's the mindset as I am thinking about what to do and where to go from here.  Thanks for listening to me and thanks for all the input and suggestions.  I really, really appreciate it.

Joe

[BillyB]

Infoman,

Don't spend another $199 to just say "goodbye" to the ladies. Would it be right if I paid the devil to say goodbye to somebody out of courtesy? I'd probably do more harm feeding money to the sharks. As for now you are just another man in cyberspace to these ladies. Believe me, they are not in love with you. RW don't fall in love with men they never met. Unlike us American men!

One reason I object to men just getting on a plane without prior correspondence is because it's foolish to go on a series of blind dates. Trips are can be expensive and time-consuming. Knowing something about the person you're visiting doesn't guarantee compatibility but visiting doesn't guarantee success either. It's not easy to decipher within a few hours or days of meeting a woman if she has her head on straight. Prior correspondence can make up for some of the little time you have getting to know a woman face to face.

Sandro, one reason I don't like to freely give out information about getting around agencies is because it could actually promote newbies to sign up with the bad ones. With new found knowledge, they may start to think they could beat the agencies at their own game. The truth is the agencies still have the upper hand and will most likely prevail in scamming men. No matter how smart you are, one should avoid agencies with a bad reputation. Sometimes it's hard to pass up those hot women. But if one sees an agency with a lot of "hot women, then you will be disappointed when/if you meet the women. The photos can be studio pics on a woman's best day and then photo is additionally doctored/photoshopped. Here's an example of an agency putting two profiles of a woman, one with the before photos, and one with photoshopped  photos.

http://www.russianlovematch.com/myhome/?func=profile&picacct=166441

http://www.russianlovematch.com/myhome/?func=profile&picacct=129312

[SANDRO43]

Sandro, one reason I don't like to freely give out information about getting around agencies is because it could actually promote newbies to sign up with the bad ones.

BillyB, I did add (all the usual cautions apply), and Infoman did not sound like a newby, as his subsequent post confirms. The information is available through any number of Google searches, mine is just more condensed in a tabular format.

[Admin]

Sandro, one reason I don't like to freely give out information about getting around agencies is because it could actually promote newbies to sign up with the bad ones. With new found knowledge, they may start to think they could beat the agencies at their own game. The truth is the agencies still have the upper hand and will most likely prevail in scamming men. No matter how smart you are, one should avoid agencies with a bad reputation.

Billy,

Your post raises a couple of questions:

1. How do you find the agencies with the "bad reputation"?

2. What changes do you think might improve things with the agencies?

- Dan