Please need suggestions and your welcome

[Quinzio]

Hello guys,
after long erratic browsing I came to this place. I am glad I found you guys.

My story in brief (I'll try be telegraphic):
I am italian, born and living in north Italy, somewhere between 30 and 40 years old. Never married, no kids, few girlfriends, few friends, regular job.
If somebody one year ago told me that now I would be browsing a forum about russian brides I'd thougth I was drunk. Life changes quickly.
So, last august during holidays, bored to death, I browse free websites with dating profiles. Mostly russian. Amazing girls. I prepare an introducing letter, paste and copy to 40 emails, young, not young, nice and ugly(hard to find).
Basically I have 2 girls replies, one disappears misteriously after 3 emails, I never understood why.
Other girl, Yoshkar Ola (Kazan ?) things run quickly. Too much I think. Pictures exchanged. Kisses, love, and kisses again every email. You know, BTW. Great, I feel good.
Quickly I become aware of scamming, browsing the net. Shit.
So, I went cautios. Is she for real ?
She never asks money, at least not directly.
I made the mistake of run to quickly and said her "I'll come to visit you, and anyway, ask information for you to come here. It could be useful in the future". I knew, in case, I had to support her financially.
I think this words made her dreaming. She got sure I wanted her in Italy.
No, sorry, this story is too quick. I have not an appartment on my own, I live with my family and I cannot have a room for her.
All is too quick. I step back, I am not ready.
I ask her: her full name, her phone, her postal address, his workplace address.
Am I in love with real girl or with a bunch of emails and pictures ?
I only have her full name. No phone (she claims she doesn't have at home nor mobile), not postal address (why she shouldn't give me it???), no workplace address.
I ask 3 times.
Now I'll make clear everything will end if I'll have not her detailed information.
I want to hear her voice and talk to her.

Now she is more cold in her emails. In the last ones she clearly states she thinks I do not trust her. She states in her opinion, that I think she is a swindler, a fraud.
Hell, no ! For G.. sake, how can I trust just a bunch of emails ?
I understand she's clearly aware of scammers from her area. I never took up this topic not to hurt her.

Now what ?
Basically she's disappointed because I made her collect informations about VISA and a ticket to Italy, and now I refrain and I stop everything.
I made a mistake, I realize, but this thing grew up very very quickly and I get caught unprepared.

Now what ?
Guys I need your help. My future life could depend on you as well.
Should I be drastic and beark everything if she refuses to give me info ?
I think that is necessary a meeting in Russia before anyother action be taken. Should I be drastic ?

Another topic. Personal curiosity.
She said me her salary is 2000 rubles. It makes 66 euros/month.
Sorry, but how do these people live ?
How  much is a liter of milk in Russia ? How much a kilo of bread ? An apartment rent ?
A pair of shoes ? A coat for the winter ?
Do these people go to the cinema or take a coffee outside ?
Do these people live or they just struggle to survive ?

Dear guys, I'd have 100 other questions, but I am abusing your time.
Please someone give me a hint, a light.
I am more confused than before. Sometimes I wish this thing never started.
An expecial greetings to th eitalian guys here. I will greet them personally.
Thanks you.

[SANDRO43]

Benvenuto a RWD, Quinzio !
Welcome, compatriot ! You've actually doubled the Italian contingent here !

one disappears misteriously after 3 emails, I never understood why

She wasn't interested, for any number of possible reasons, scamming included (you're not appearing a worthwhile target).

Basically she's disappointed because I made her collect informations about VISA and a ticket to Italy, and now I refrain and I stop everything.

Understandable, but she may only have wasted some of her time. After all, investments in this game are not guaranteed to bear the expected fruits. I would maintain your position : "No info, no joy".

She said me her salary is 2000 rubles. It makes 66 euros/month.Sorry, but how do these people live ?

Some additional information, such as her agency and age, might be helpful. If she's young and lives with her parents, that might be a first-job salary. Did she tell you WHAT job she has ? On the whole, however, I would say there IS a strong smell of scamming. You might also try submitting the information you have on her to the ScamCard (see menu at left).

[BillyB]

Welcome Quinzio,

I'd say 99.9% scam. A woman would at least want to hear your voice before travelling to your country. And many woman in their right mind wouldn't want to travel to a man's, she never met, country. Just remember, if she could afford internet, most likely she could afford a phone.

What company did you find this woman at?

As you've noted, you've had few girlfriends and friends. Knowing that, you must realize you may have a problem figuring out who to trust and how a woman should act when she's "into" you. If a woman is "into" you, she'd want to hear your voice and want you to meet her friends and family. If a woman withdrawls her attention to you because you insist on speaking to her on the phone, then dump her. She's immature or not really into you. But keep an open mind and realize that the person you were writing to may be a man, not a woman.

With 40 letters you sent out, you've only received 2 replies? Look at yourself and the letter you write. Is it something that will appeal to a woman? Re-evaluate the women you are writing too. Are they too young, too beautiful, or in good shape while you are not? Understanding your limitations and weaknesses will improve your chances of success writing real women instead of wasting time with fakes who prey on men's fantasies and hunger for love.

Do lots of reading here and you will be better prepared for an international relationship.

[Quinzio]

Hello again, and thanks to Billy and expecially to Sandro, my new italian acquaintance 

I will straight answer your comments.
SANDRO: (I'll write in english to make everyone undestrand.)

She wasn't interested, for any number of possible reasons, scamming included (you're not appearing a worthwhile target).

In which way I could appear a scammer or not worthwhile ? By wasting her time, looking for sexual adventures, not being financially sound ?
Honestly I forgot mentioning one detail. I'll do in the end of this post.

I would maintain your position : "No info, no joy".

That's what I will do.

Some additional information, such as her agency and age, might be helpful. If she's young and lives with her parents,

I found her profile on www.datingrussian.com
She's 26. She claims her parents are both death, her mother be the last to grow her until 20 or so. So she appereantly lives alone in a small appartment for rent.
As regarding her job, she told me she works in a "night club" (her words) serving drinks and meals. What does a russian means for "night club" ?

About the low salary, topic. I read on various websites the average salary there is around 100$. If some guys that has been to Russia would teel me about cost of living there, I'll appreciate.

You might also try submitting the information you have on her to the ScamCard (see menu at left).

I did it with two antiscam websites.
Nothing appeared. Name, last name, city.
I looked at bunches of pictures, really a lot of, and I saw nothing.
I googled her full name, and she apprears on another dating site. The pictures matches toghether. The city is the same.
BUT, there is a but, on the second website there is her birth date which does not match with the info she gave me. I ask her again, and the two dates are not the same.

BILLY:

I'd say 99.9% scam. A woman would at least want to hear your voice before travelling to your country. And many woman in their right mind wouldn't want to travel to a man's, she never met, country. Just remember, if she could afford internet, most likely she could afford a phone.

I'll agree about the voice/telephone thing.
I'll take in account your idea she's a scammer.

What company did you find this woman at?

datingrussian.com

If a woman withdrawls her attention to you because you insist on speaking to her on the phone, then dump her. She's immature or not really into you. But keep an open mind and realize that the person you were writing to may be a man, not a woman.

So that, my resolution will be that the whole thing will go on if there are phone conversations and postal address.
I have wondered if there are possible reasons she could not reveal her address. Maybe she doesn't live alone ?
Are there public telephones shops in Russia she could make and receive phone calls ?
Scary thing I wrote one month to a man. Once she made a rude comment (only once) to one of my questions and I clearly thought: "these word come from a man, too rude  for a girl". But due to russian/english/italian translations and cultural differencies, I didn't thought it anymore.

Look at yourself and the letter you write. Is it something that will appeal to a woman? Re-evaluate the women you are writing too. Are they too young, too beautiful, or in good shape while you are not? Understanding your limitations and weaknesses will improve your chances of success writing real women instead of wasting time with fakes who prey on men's fantasies and hunger for love.

I'll treasure your suggestions.
Basically my first intro was a 10 rows letter in which I say who I am, where I live, to reply if interested, that a more detailed presentation would follow on the next letters, and two pictures attached.
All in all, my idea was to say "Hello, is there anybody reading on the other side ?"



Ok, now I must tell you a detail, a detail that made me worry.
You guys after you read all that, you would slap me in my head. If so, I agree with you.
I mentioned, the first days I received letters from 2 girls, two distant russian cities.
Ok, it was the third letter, one each day, and I checked my inbox at the evening and found the emails of this two girls.
My eyes stopped on a detail. The time the email was sent.
One was sent on 11:26 AM, the second 11:28 AM.
I suddenly thought there was something wrong. Is not possible that two different people send me emails with 2 minutes time difference from each other.
But, the I thouhgt something about a mere coincidence.
Novokutzesk and Yoshkar Ola are not the same fuse, so actually is not the same time.
Am I right ? Then I thought of a server system that collects emails from the same server and sends them alltoghther at the same time.
Again, if the same scammer sends emails to different guys, using different profiles, at least 10 minutes should pass, to read the letter, answer specific question, change his email account.
How honestly it is possible even for a scammer to send emails with 2 minutes time difference ?
After that, girl number 2 disappeared and I honestly didn't think about it anymore.
But it was a big red flag, am I right ?
Ready to take slaps. 

This task of seraching a girl look like I will turn into an antiscammer expert.
It's all the afternoon I am on this forum reading and writing, now I have to go out to relax a bit.
The idea I haven't found what I thought starts to piss me off.

BIG THANKS TO YOU GUYS.
Hope to read you again.   

[BillyB]

Quinzio,

It is possible for a scammer to send out a letter in less than a minute apart. These are pre-written(canned) letters they write to all the men and all they have to do is change the name and e-mail address and send it off. Scammers do this for a living and have nothing better to do but perfect their techniques and hunt for naive, love hungry men.

If a woman doesn't have a phone, then surely she has a friend who has a phone.

Forget about datingrussian.com. They are a scammers paradise. the women's e-mail are listed on the profiles and are free and I recognized a few scammers based on their photos. You need more experience on how to spot and avoid scammers before trusting that company to find a decent woman. Be prepared to spend some money at a dating site or agency.

[SANDRO43]

Quinzio, I understand your eagerness, but you should not raise too many points in a single post (troppa carne al fuoco ).

Your www.datingrussian.com appears to be a free site (email addresses and/or phone numbers freely available). That in itself means a high possibility of scammer infiltration. I posted my profile there, and shall see what sort of reception it gets.  Poor orphan stories are often used by scammers as a prelude to subsequent, apparently-justifiable requests for money.  A $100/month salary for a bar maid could be real, depends on her work schedule (and a "night club" could be a good place for possible "collateral" activities to supplement her $100 ).

The ScamCard is an online questionnaire available here that could give you a rough idea on whether she's a scammer, based on the info that you supply (it's biased towards the negative). It's anonymous and your answers are not recorded.

Not appearing on scam sites under a given name may simply mean that she uses different names. Different ages may be meaningful if widely different. Not showing her address is a precaution for better identity concealment. And of course, there are public telephones in Russia which she could use, same as everywhere else.

Lastly, almost simultaneous letters from girls living in widely distant places does not mean much, if they write through a website : yes, agency website servers often send large batches of letters in one go. Scammers do not necessarily READ the letters they receive , so they, too, may be making mass mailings.

In the light of what you disclosed in your last post, I would raise BillyB's 99.9% estimate a further 0.1% . Just drop her, Quinzio.

[Turboguy]

I once received about 50 letters supposedly from different gals but with the same agency in about a 5 minute period.  Sure.

How do you know one is from Yoshkar Ola (which is the new scammer capitol passing Lugansk) and the other is from Novisbirsk.  Did you check the IP's or did they just tell you that?

Sometimes people think they have to have a mad dash to a wife in this endeavor.   You are young.  If it takes you a few more days to find the gal you want to marry you will still have a lot of years with her.   Try some other sources of ladies.  Write for a while and get a selection.  Read some of the posts here about scammers.  Think about making a trip and using some agencies to meet gals.  You are at a great age.   The gals will be all over you and they will like the Italy location since they can visit home easier and from your side of it you can visit them cheaply and easily.   You don't have to settle for the first one.

[Quinzio]

I once received about 50 letters supposedly from different gals but with the same agency in about a 5 minute period.  Sure.

How do you know one is from Yoshkar Ola (which is the new scammer capitol passing Lugansk) and the other is from Novisbirsk.  Did you check the IP's or did they just tell you that?

Nice to meet you, Turboguy.
In fact, I have no mean to tell whether they're from Novosibirsk or YoskarOla, I have only their words.
When I wrote it in my precedent post, I got lost in my thoughts and I wasn't too logical.

The agency world really doesn't reassure me more than a free dating sites.

I wrote to a well known dating acengy in Yoskar Ola and after say 10 hours I got a reply.
But I doubt that the reply was written by the real lady.
Maybe I'm wrong, but the other scenario seems unreal to me.
The other scenario was that the agency call the girl by phone, (admitting the girl has a phone and who pays the phone ?), the girl reaches the agency and reply to the letter. Too much a waste of time and money.

In the best case scenario the lady's reply is modifyed and rewritten by the agency in a good english and personal emails/phone numbers are deleted.
The agencies world IMO bears the same risks than free dating sites.

Did you really receive 50 letters in 5 minutes ?
So, do I have to imagine that in the agency there are always 50 lady's ready to asnwer all the guys emails ?
It looks odd, IMO.

Thanks

[Quinzio]

Follow up to my story.

Yesterday evening the lady from Yoskar Ola sent an email:

Hello my love!
Please now write to me on my new e-mail: "lady's_full_name@fromru.
com"
With my old box that that happens also I could not come on it.
Please write to me the letter.
Signature!

This can well be a scammer.
My love ? My love who ? I ?
You even don't ask how I passed my Sunday....? Am I your love ?

Another scenario could be she has more guys in her addres list, and this is an "ALL USER" message. A really bad move in any case, for a girl that wants to build up a relationship.

The notable thing is that she uses her full name to create her email address, so the scammer activity cannot go so far, IMO.

I will go for the "ALL USER" case.

[smartcat]

Quinzio, I personally smell a rat.

First of all - if a girl does not want to send you her home address or work place address - very bad sign. No phone - hard to believe!!! Could be that if she is renting a flat there's no phone, ok. It happens. But most of the people in Russia can afford a cell phone, even teens. Even an old crap used cell-phone to accept calls - it's free for them for incoming calls.

"My love-kiss-dream about you..." since start is not a good sign either. Typical for scammers as a bite.

Second thing. Some people really make $100, but I don't know anyone who could rent a flat making such money. Usually people making $100 live with parents and plant out potatoes as additional food source. Flat rental is quite high. Plus spends on food, clothes and Internet too??? Where she is using Internet?

Why don't you ask her a name of Yoshkar-Ola night club she is working at? If she refers any it's quite easy to find this place in Internet.

I got a certain feeling that the letters can be written by a bearded man. Photos can be taken from his girlfriend or niece. And the name used could be of his grandma.
Yes, you are not asked for money to send. Try to speak on. I guess your correspondence will speed up immediately. You could even be given with address. [Could be of a local bank].

Alas, too many red flags, sorry to say!

[Shadow]

Quinzo I have to agree with the opinion of most here. Sorry you found not a woman but probably a man writing letters to you.
Just try to write a few more women, and you will soon know the difference.

[viking]

Quinzo,

IMHO, scammer. Too many things are not right and the words are so familiar to other scammer 'tactics'. Move on, NOW!!  Smartcat is right on the money.

Quick story. Years ago, when, like you, I first went on the internet I was sent an email from a 'nice' girl in Irkutsk. Many letters later she was in love with me. Wonderful photos. Lived with her mom, no phone, made little money, blah, blah blah.Worked in a small cafe. Sent her $100. Asked her to use a pay phone, anything, just call me. She disappeared. Found out later there was no cafe by that name in the town, name was fake, was sending emails to another guy in the US (we compared notes and the photos were totally different), more.

She is a scammer. End of story. Finito.

[Son of Clyde]

Quinzio,
I am half Italian.
Did you try to set up your own profile? On some sites it is free for the guys to set a profile. Many guys here have done that.
Ciao,
Lorenzo (I mean Son of Clyde) 

[groovlstk]

No, sorry, this story is too quick. I have not an appartment on my own, I live with my family and I cannot have a room for her.
All is too quick. I step back, I am not ready.

Quinzio, to get back to your original post... are you sure you have the necessary income to do this? This is a hideously expensive undertaking, no matter how close you live to Ukraine or Russia. If you're not prepared to spend a lot of cash in the next year or two, you're doing these girls a disservice.

And like Clyde, I'm 1/2 dago, also.

[SANDRO43]

Girls and boys and part dagos, Quinzio's last post is from October 2nd (almost 3 weeks ago), so he may have sobered up from his Y-O inebriation in the meantime .

Full Dago

BTW, welcome to RWD, Smartcat Galya (can't call you Galina, sounds too much like gallina in Dagoish . You may consider also posting something about yourself in Introductions and Ice-Breaker (http://www.russianwomendi...orum/index.php?board=41.0).

[smartcat]

to Sandro 43. Khm... Ok, thanks for suggestion. I first need to find a big hammer for ice-breaking, as if I come with that tool used in Basic Instinct movie, all RWD would be horrified! Second thing - thanks Ukrainians, they officially call me Halyna now in documents. Still better sounded for Spanish and Italian ears.
But all this goes to offtop... as this is Quinzio's topic.
Anyway, thanks.

[Michelangelo]

Second thing - thanks Ukrainians, they officially call me Halyna now in documents. Still better sounded for Spanish and Italian ears.

But Galina sounds better and is easier to pronounce to our English only guys. So welcome, Galina, I am enjoying your smart postings :-)  So Smartcat it is :-)

No, sorry, this story is too quick. I have not an appartment on my own, I live with my family and I cannot have a room for her.
All is too quick. I step back, I am not ready.

Quinzio, my lad, good insight.   

As for me, I'll agree with Groove that you may not be be quite ready and I'm glad in your post and this quote you see this too.  But you can use this time to read this board and educate yourself.  Good luck when you are ready to make the move toward actively seeking an FSU partner.

[tim 360]

Si Quinzio,  these are simple scams to stay away from.  Yoshkar-ola?  One of the scam centers for Yuir.

Smartcat,  welcome aboard I am sure you will have some good info to provide.