Russian Language Difficulties....

[Todd]

Hi All,

I've been married for a bit over a year, and I still am having problems pronouncing very basic sounds.  Kate and I have tried many a night getting me to roll my R's.  I literally simply can't get my mouth to do the things required
to make the sounds.  I have extensive problems with many other vowels and consonants as well.  Are there any other people out there with this issue?  I also needed roughly 5 years of speach therapy growing up, but I always scored 99%+ on the vocabulary portions of the SAT and GRE.  I took 4 years of Latin in high school and had two years of college German.  My lowest scores in German were on accent and speaking.

As an FYI, Kate speaks English more correctly than I ever will.  Thus, I don't have a driving need to learn the language, but I would still want to take a few baby steps towards learning a few more words as a way of showing her that I care. 

Thanks,

Todd

[Vaughn]

Todd,

  I learned my first Russian word (pencil) on my own, at the Lackland AFB library in 1971 - and I still cannot speak like a native. I can roll the R's, yeah, but there are several letter combinations I cannot handle, and the soft L comes out hard. For that matter, I enjoy hearing my wife's rather thick accent - especially with the
TH sound.

  Fact is, it doesn't matter, unless you're obsessed with proper diction, or have a need to speak professionally. Still, I'll bet your
accent charms her (and her loved ones) - and your desire and
willingness to reciprocate to even a limited degree - more than shows her you care.

  I wanted an opinion on my own speaking ability just before I made
my first trip to the FSU. A Russian doctor I knew said this: "Don't
worry too much about pronunciation, they'll understand you. Don't
think for a second you'll go unnoticed - they'll know instantly that
you're a foreigner. Enjoy the journey."

[Jet]

Todd, the rolling "R's" isn't too bad if you can stop thinking about English "R's" 
In English you position your tongue at the bottom of your mouth.
In Russian it is pressed against the roof of your mouth.

If you have not tried yet, pick up the Pimslur introduction to Russian (less than $20)
What makes it worthwhile is that it focuses entirely on pronounciation and breaks each word down into 'bite size' pieces. You'll be spitting out zdrstvuite! when greeting friends, in short order 

[groovlstk]

Jet's right, the Pimsleur intro is a great start.

When I got to one of the initial lessons that taught the word zdrstvuite, I thought I would break my jaw trying to say it. But the native speaker breaks it down into multiple syllables, you practice each syllable again and again, until you're ready to put it all together.

[START2]

Todd,
  The guys are correct. I know several hundred words but didn't ever learn to connect them. After this past trip home(2nd home) I was so tired of not being able to have a normal converstaion with in-laws and friends that I made it my goal that next trip I was going to communicate. It's been 5 weeks since I picked up the intro on pimsleur cd's and I have mastered the first 10 lessons. It helps to have the sounding board(my wife) at home to practice on. Now it's on to the next set. I also have rosetta stone on my pc(was a gift) but don't use it much at this point. it also has helped that I have an hours drive to work and back and I immerse myself.
   I'm surprised that if you can speak a little latin that you can't roll that R as there are some latin words that require that. Spanish too. Put the tip of your tongue at the back of your top front teeth, let it relax, and let a gush of air(as if making a hugh sigh) flow over your tongue. Yeah, easier said than done.
  I plan on surprsing alot of people next year.
  I bought the first pims at barnes and noble. $20 I think. I already knew many of the words they use but not the connectors like na, ni, no, vue, va etc.  Also, try to learn their alphabet and how to spell. They only have 33 letters and 2 are silent with no sound. Start remembering 4 or 5 at a time and write them several times during the day. You'll have it in not time. Good luck.

[SANDRO43]

In English you position your tongue at the bottom of your mouth. In Russian it is pressed against the roof of your mouth.

Aaahh, Phonetics, another Muse mistreated here .

English R : a velar/uvular trilled consonant (back, soft part of your palate). Curiously, Chinese R is not too different : ask a Chinese friend to say ren (man), it'll sound much like wren.

Russian R : an alveolar trilled consonant (front part of your palate, where your incisor roots are located). Same rolled R as in Italian and Spanish (and Scottish ).

[Todd]

Alas, the Latin I took required no speaking so I never had to roll my R's.  I will look into the Pim's though as a first step.  The important thing is that Kate isn't too worried, so if she is ok, then I am ok. 

Thanks for the advice,

Todd

[SANDRO43]

Alas, the Latin I took required no speaking so I never had to roll my R's. 

Might have been a blessing in disguise. I took my Latin in grammar school (your 6th, 7th, 8th grade) and our teacher pronounced it as Italian. Years later, some scholars came up with a new pronunciation (restituta, Latin for returned, restored) claimed to reflect the original Roman pronunciation. Among its novelties, V pronounced as U/W (possible, since Latin only had the letter V) and C always pronounced as K.

Accordingly, VIVA CAESAR (Hail, Cesar !) should be WIWA KESAR.

Sounds odd, but since we we have no surviving Roman tapes or CDs, no way to check .

[poseidon84]

OFFTOPIC

A bit off topic. But when it comes to latin it is a difference between "new" and "old" latin. Among the difference is "C" pronounced as K or S.

End of OFFTOPIC.

[Rim]

You can think of a Russian "R" as an English "Rd"

PaRuski sounds like PaRduski

************************************************

[SANDRO43]

But when it comes to latin it is a difference between "new" and "old" latin. Among the difference is "C" pronounced as K or S.

K yes, as I said below, S never to my knowledge. Do you have any examples ?

[whoami]

Hi All,

I've been married for a bit over a year, and I still am having problems pronouncing very basic sounds.  Kate and I have tried many a night getting me to roll my R's. 

Hello,

I know it's been a while since the original question was posted. But anyway may be you or someone else find this tip useful...

Usually, Russian speech therapists use some tricks to teach a child proper pronunciation (and this is an actual  one). Thus, for "rolling" R they ask a child to say the word "Dragon" - if you try to keep your tongue close to your teeth, while doing it, and repeat a word multiple times(as in "dragondragon"...), I bet you will get Russian "R".
However, there are much more consonant sounds(and I'm not even talking about vowels ;-) ) that differ in pronuncation: S, T, P, etc.

Good Luck!

[octopus]

Here are some tools to help learn Russian faster:

Winflash - a flashcard computer program that allows you to include audio as well as text.
http://www.openwindow.com/

Cyrillic Support 2000 - many places offer cyrillic fonts, but this font collection includes a cyrillic font with accent marks, which is essential for pronunciation.  This includes a program that lets you switch from Cyrillic to English by hitting Shift+Shift.  Neat!
http://cyrillic.com/csw/index.html

Google "cyrillic keyboard" and find one that matches the configuration (as in the locatioin of "/" and the shape of the enter key) that you are used to already so you don't have to re-learn to type in English, too.

Stamina 2.5 - a free English-Cyrillic typing tutor.  Install this and make sure the keyboard you buy matches one of the ones supported by this program.  You will need to learn to type cyrillic *a little* to make flashcards.  Hit F1 to toggle through several keyboards in English and Russian.
http://typingsoft.com/stamina.htm

Here is the Collins Russian-English talking dictionary that you can use to get sounds for your flashcards.
http://www.lexicool.com/soft_russian_english_dictionary_cdrom.asp

Here is a free program called Audacity that will allow you to capture any sound playing in your sound card, for example the words in the talking dictionary.
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

If I didn't have time to go to school to study Russian and already had a Russian wife I would use this book to study at home:

The New Penguin Russian Course: A Complete Course for Beginners (Penguin Handbooks) (Paperback)
by Nicholas J. Brown

[ScottinCrimea]

Nice to hear I'm not the only one who can't roll their R's.  I speak fluent Spanish and have tried for years to get that down but my muscles just don't cooperate.  A few other sounds still give me problems, too, such as the "bui" sound that they make.
     I remember the first time I came to visit, my total vocabulary was, "ya ni panimayo", ya hachoo vodka", and "gde toylyet?"  I used the Pimsleur tapes and took some private lessons the first three months I was here but that was about it.  At this point I understand most things that are said and can speak enough to have a conversation, get my point across and tell a joke or two.  I heard one person talk about learning Russian and I couldn't agree more with what she said.  She said that with most languages it gets easier as you go.  With Russian it gets more difficult.

[ABCD]

Todd,

Try listening to the word "good" in Russian:
http://www.ilearnwords.com/eng_rus/erw10_good_wordpage.html

...or try listening to the word "beautiful" in Russian:
http://www.ilearnwords.com/eng_rus/erw30_beautiful_wordpage.html

Just listen and repeat...listen and repeat...listen and repeat.  That's the way to learn Russian.

Good luck! 

--Seven