Adult chidren

[rose]

Hi, everybody!
Since the majority of the participants are males, I've decided to ask you opinion about the situation which I might finish with heart attack.
Here is the deal:
My son is 19. Last summer he graduated from high school. My husband doesn't want to pay for the college, and my son needs to find the ways to earn money for college himself. So, he went to work in a local restaurant which was just opening, but as soon as amount of visitors started slowing down, they started cut hours, and it came to the point when they would give him 6 hours a week. At that point he already rented room, and now he found himself in the position that he couldn't pay the rent.

Yet while being in school he prepared documents to go to the military(he did 78 comparing to the next highest of 32). Our best bet was Coast Guard, but since he is not a citizen, there is a very limited choice of the occupations he can select from. We decided to check other branches, and people in the Army were so friendly, that my son, just ate all their tricks, and now wants to go to the Army. "Kind" people from the Army promise him, well, you all know what they can promise. Since my son practically doesn't have a job, and out county has the highest unemployment in California, you can imagine how low are his chances to find a job. And here "nice fellows" from the Army again came into the picture, they caught him in the mall, took to the recruiting office, transfered all documents from the Coast Guard, and promise him something like in the movie "Private Benjamin". Another thing is that Coast Guard will send them to the bootcamp only in February, while Army is ready right now.
I'm shocked, I don't know what to do. Naturally, I can put pressure on my son and order him to do whatever I think is right, what I did last week, but...
   2 days ago I thought if I have the right to do it. I want to save him from danger, I want to protect him, but.. Not always what we think is the best for us is really best. I don't know his future, and nobody knows, life is unpredictable, maybe in his particular case Army will be safer place for him... I truly believe in God, and believe that we don't know our destiny, but God knows. Very often we want something desperately, we think that that is the only right way to do, but again, we don't know the bigger picture... Maybe by taking away something what we think is right, God is trying to protect us from something much more dangerous...
To make things worse, I asked my ex-husband, father of my son, to go in Russia to the clairvoyant(sign that I became temporary insane already). I know her for about 10 years, and I heard from my friend who frequently asks for her help that that lady said something what didn't become true only twice for her. So, that lady said that if my son will go to the Coast Guard, he'll hang himself... I don't believe too much, but again, since I know it already I just can't pretend that I do not. I just hope that it'll be a mistake...
I know I need to let my son make his own decisions, but it's so scary, especially in a situation when he wants not only to go to the Army, but to become a reckon(? spell).
I have 4 days before the final decision, and ask you, please, if you have something maybe from your own experience to say, please, help me. Or, very soon instead of Rose whom you know you'll meet insane Rose.

[Jooky]

Rose,

Why doesn't your husband want to help your son pay for college? Can he not afford it? Can your son not live at home and go to a state school? Surely that is affordable. What does your son really want do to?

[Bruce]

If I had a 19 year old son I would advise him not to go into the Army right now unless he had a desire to go to Iraq.  The coast guard sounds like a much better opportunity for him.  Better yet, he should go to college.  If he really can not get a job in the local community until he saves enough for college he can travel to another location, live and save money for college - no different than being in the Army only he probably will have a lower risk of losing his life.

[jb]

I second that last past, the Army is the dead wrong choice at this time.  Coast Gruard is a better choice, there he will be probably in a job much like a policeman.  The Coast Guard is now the top Federal law enforcement agency in the war on drugs and also heavily involved in the work to stop illegal immigration. 

Failing the Coast Guard, next choice would be the Navy, there he would have a better opportunity to learn a valuable skill. 

[rose]

Bruce,
My husband's God is money, and he hate to share it with anyone, even me. All these years I studied and worked, and provided my living by my own. My son doen't even qualify for financial aid because the income of "our" family is very high.

As to my son, he as many teenagers thinks that nothing bad will happen to him. I think he isn't mature enough yet, unfortunately. And as to college, he didn't decide yet what he wants to do. My opinion - he is not ready for college. Paradox is that he thinks he is ready for war.

[Bruce]

Rose, JB has clearly outlined why your son should join the coast guard if the choice is amongst our branches of military service.  Please try your best to force your son to make the better choice.  Again, like JB already mentioned, there also is the Navy as well as the Air Force. 

[Jet]

I'd also like to put in $0.02 backing up what JB wrote. If your son can't stand the MOS (job) choices in the Coast Guard than have him check the Navy out. He *thinks* he wants to be in RECON but that may change really fast once training starts  Tell him the Navy SEALS are far more prestegious  Honestly, the Navy seems to have a lot more technology jobs that transfer easily to civilian life, and less chance that any battle he enters into, would become "up close and personal" like the type of patrolling the Army does.

[BC]

Rose,

Sorry for being a bit crass, but wasn't this something you and your husband talked about before you married?

I pretty much passed down the same phylosophy as my father did.  He told me that he would support me throughout my education but that's it.  The day I put the books down I was on my own.

When we talked about our daughters education, I expressed the exact same thoughts regarding her education.

I do have thoughts I could pass on regarding branch of service etc, but I think your main problem lies with what your son really wants to do.. was he applying for colleges before?  Interested in a particular subject, school, etc?

Certainly if he feels pushed in a corner, or outcast he may make some irrational choices.  I think you have to find a way together with your husband to take the pressure off so that your son has a 'breath of air' to make a good, informed decision and a little time to see that decision through.  Work for a mutually agreeable decision between you and your husband before your son signs the dotted line..

Forget the babushka.. I am sure many have great wisdom, but based on local experiences.  If we were talking Russian Navy there might be more agreement.

[rose]

BC,
I didn't want to tell before, but the word "D..." is on the horizon. The favourite Maxx's word "A..." is all over my marriage. We, my son and me, can rely only on ourselves.
And trust me, if I'd tell you all details, Maxx can retire with his "horror" stories.

From talks to my son, I realized that he is really confused, and feels trapped. He doesn't know what he wants, and Army seems for him the way out.

[Rim]

Rose,
Your attempts to protect your son, an adult who should be capable of making his own choices, further adds validity to some of what Maxx has said. I'm glad to see that your son is making his first steps at being his own man, and his choice to be in the army is a good choice under his circumstances.

Having a teenage child pay their own way is often far less about the money than it is about building character. Are you going to try to hold onto your son, control him and protect him until he either becomes a spineless pathetic excuse for a man or he pushes you away?

I don't know you or your husband and maybe your husband is a bad man like you imply, but the choice to let your son make his own way in this world is a good choice.

[beattledog]

I am not a mother, but a mother always desires to protect her son from danger and the miltary service.  A father is always proud that his son or step-son is willing to serve in the military .   I cannot explain the reason.  One of my closest friends has two sons who are in the coast guard.  They both have been in for about 6 years, deciding to make it a career.  It is not as dangerous as the army, but there is also danger.  Also, I have   three second cousins who are in the navy.  They love they navy .  My deceased wife's brother, made a career out of the navy, before retiring.  His two sons are following  in his footsteps.  In all the above cases, they will get their college paid for.    Just my thoughts on this

beattledog

[BillyB]

Rose,

You admittance that your son is not ready for college is exactly a good reason not to send him there now to fail and waste money. Maybe your husband IS making a good sound decision regardless of your opinion of his thriftiness. Is your son still playing video games and goofing around with the boys? If yes, then he shouldn't be getting higher education unless HE WANTS it and will try to succeed.

When I was 16, because I was underage and the military isn't allowed to talk to me, the Navy sent a letter to my parents to encourage them to persuade me to join their nuclear program as an officer because I performed so well on a military test. Top 1% in the nation. I didn't want to be on a ship half a year every year so I passed it up. A few years later my parents divorced and I went into college unprepared. But then I had motivation to join the Army for a greater cause than myself.

I have to admire your son's courage for considering the Army during a time of conflict. I signed up in the Army during the first Gulf war, my dad signed up during the Vietnam war, my grandfather signed up for the navy during WW2, and my great grandfather signed up for the Army during WW1. All signed up during a time of crisis.

If it makes you feel any better, the number 1 killer of Americans aren't terrorists, it's Americans themselves. Drinking and driving, suicide, homicide, etc.. contribute to the deaths of many.

Your son will hang himself if he joins the Coast Guard? I'll start believing in fortune tellers when they can predict the winning lottery numbers. Don't go to them any more Rose. It violates the trust you have with God, not to mention they can give you a false sense of security or get you paranoid.

Rose, you've gave your opinion to your son many times I'm sure. He isn't listening so try to understand what he wants and why. Then do your best to give him support and prepare him for what he chooses. Going through basic training is tough physically and mentally. Going to war is even tougher. All men give some, but some men give all. Give your son a chance to prove himself the way he wants, you might just be proud of him. After it's all said and done, he might be ready for higher education as you wished.

[Gator]

Rose,

Young men at 19 are hormonally impaired, have seen too many action films, and played too many violent video games.  They do not think clearly.  And the Army recruiters are taking advantage of that and playing on his sense of machismo and patriotism.   Your son really needs to think this over with his mother and consider all alternatives before making a decision.

If he did well on his testing, he should be able to get into a technology-oriented MOS (military occupation skill) such as electronics or language.  However, I do not know about the non-citizen issue.

Recon and combat are not something to seek.  Men get maimed for life, some die.

One of my older son’s friends could not afford college so he did the Marine Corps reservist tuition plan.  He has served two tours in Iraq and been in what I consider horrible situations.  He is proud of what he has done and as an American I too am proud.  And we need more men like him.  However, I am just so thankful that it is not my son in his shoes.  I will state that he seems more mature today than my son. 

If money is a problem, can your son not live with you, work during the day and go to community college in the evening?  He could try this for a year and then decide.

Rose, I am sorry to hear of your marital problems.  Your husband has a large income yet does not share it.  Does he know that not paying a small amount for state college could cause your son to place himself in harm’s way?  With such an attitude, your husband does not deserve you or any woman.  I think you should file divorce papers.  Filing will get his attention, and he can decide then if he wants you or not.  Either way, he must pay (this ain’t Russia).

Are you the same Rose from RWG a couple of years ago?  I posted there under “Bucky” and remember a well adjusted Russian woman named “Rose”.

[Rim]

I think you should file divorce papers.

You're suggesting to someone that you don't know, to file for divorce based upon limited and one sided information about her husband's unwillingness to foot the bill for college?

Rose may very well be one of those great Russian gals that we all hope that we'll find, and her husband may be a real selfish jerk; or she may be a woman who doesn't understand why her husband doesn't spend every dime of his paycheck on she and her son.

There are so many viable scenarios where the husband is being reasonable in not paying for her son's education that I can't imagine how you can justify giving such advise on such limited information.

[Bruno]

or she may be a woman who doesn't understand why her husband doesn't spend every dime of his paycheck on she and her son.

There are so many viable scenarios where the husband is being reasonable in not paying for her son's education that I can't imagine how you can justify giving such advise on such limited information.

Rim, i don't know how it work in USA but here, if you marry a woman who have already a child, you become responsible for these child because your are his step father... and it is one of the basic responsability of all father to take care of the education of children...

Since they are married, it is not more the son of Rose but the son of both... both are responsible for him... so, maybe your "her son" show how really you think, i hope that you are not married to a RW who have already children from previous marriage...

And it is a difference between "doesn't spend every dime of his paycheck" and "all these years I studied and worked, and provided my living by my own"... why marry if you are not able to share what you have with your partner...

Rose, each time that you clean his clothes, that you ready the meal, that you clean the house, that you make love, etc ... simply give him the bill for the "work"... he will very fast understand the value of a good wife... Don't think about divorce now, simply show him that you allow him to spare a lot of money since it is something important for him... Don't use money for a "clairvoyant" but concentrate for find a solution to repair your couple... if you have marry each other, it is because between the two of you, something was special... maybe try to revive these something special... only when no more solution seem possible, maybe begin think about divorce... a lot of couple know crisis, some are able to resolve them, some not... without trying to resolve them, you will never know that it will work of not...

[SANDRO43]

Bruno, weren't you supposed to be retired from RWD ? We all shed tears for your premature departure at 3,000 posts, but it's 3,009 now .

[rose]

Guys,
Thank you for your support and advices. And please, don't try to discuss my marital situation. I mentioned it just because I had to explain that there is no help from there. and because of his income, my son isn't eligiblefor the Financial Aid. Moreover, if my son chooses to live in my house, he suppose to pay $300/month for a tiny room.
The point is:
1. 8 years ago I did immature decision and married this man because my mom put in my head idea that I will not survive without a man and because I loved him with all my heart.
2. He knew that I have a child, and after 1 year my husband tricked us and sent my son back to Russia. He couldn't stand that my son, being 12 years old thought that it was funny to find muffins which my husband hided from s and ate at night while we were sleeping.
3. At that point I still loved my husband and hoped that our marriage still will work out, that's why I made another wrong decision and stayed here.
4. All this years I was simply blackmailed that if I will not do what my husband tell me what to do, he will not bring my son here.
5. I haven't seen my son for 5 years.
6. Somewhere during this time the only goal which helped me to live was that I need to bring my son here to save him from the going to the Russian Army, because there were chances that he could end up in Chechnya.
*Please, don't be sorry for me, I made a mistake, I'm paying for it, and I've learned a lot from it*
7. 1,5 years ago my son finally come here.
8. Yes, my opinion is that he is still immature, he still plays games and, honestly, that's all what he wants to do. But it's time for him to learn to become a man.

Although I realize that I can't make decisions for him all his live, the question is: should I let him to make this decision right now? He still doesn't have feeling of consequences and tries to find easy way out without thinking 2 steps ahead. To go to the Army is the easiest way, and he doesn't think well about bootcamp and the events which will follow its graduation. So, is now the best time to let him to learn to become a man, shouldn't he try to make his own decisions in the areas where consequences wouldn't be so dramatic in case if he'll make the wrong decision?
My son needs to learn structure and discipline, that's why the military can be a solution. But it seemes to me that sense of self-protection (sorry, can't find the better word) is absent in his head. Many teenagers at his age do stupid things and get hurt because of this.
Even here on forum opinions divided. Part of people says "force", part tells "let him to become a man". That's exactly what is going on with me. I understand that I can't protect him from everything, that time came to let him to become a man, but is it right now a good time to let him to do so? This might be the most important decision in his life, and like with everything else, shouldn't we try to learn something starting from something simple, and then gradually going into more serious stuff? Even the ability to make right choices and make smart decisions should be trained. And the other thing... I think it might happen that with Iraq the danger of war will not end, it seems to me that the possibility of war with Iran is becoming more real every day.
So, from what I can see, he has 4 choices right now:
a) try to get a job, but it's very difficult to compete with Mexican immigrants who already know difficulties of life and ready to do all low qualified job the best they can
b) education, but he doesn't know what he wants to do and isn't serious enough yet.
c) army, but...(you know this part), they'll take him right now.
d) coast guard, but he has to wait till February, and there is a very poor choice of occupations(only 5 low qualified), although they said that as soon as he'll become a citizen, he can change the occupation.

[BillyB]

It's hard not for us to discuss your marital problems if you keep bringing it up making us feel sorry for you.

It's obvious that you believe your son is not ready for college. So why think about sending him there to fail and waste time and money? Joining the military can help him develop faster and be more responsible or he can go and work at McDonald's until he gets tired of that crap and desire an education to get a better job. How long that will take is anybody's guess.

Rose, all people here has made it into adulthood. It's amazing how bumpy the road may seems but most likely all will be fine with your son as all is fine with most of us now. If he desires something, he'll make something out of himself, if he doesn't desire college and you force him, he will be a failure for the time he's in college unless he wakes up. Here's an option since you don't want him in the military and he's not ready for higher education but wants to put his body to work, he could apply for a job in construction as a labor and learn a trade through job experience.

[Gator]

I admit that I am a soft-hearted soul.  I never fired my weapon in Vietnam (never saw a target).  And I wore my hair too long when such was the sign of "peace and free love" and rednecks had rednecks because they had short hair.  So any Gung ho hardasses will disagree with me.

Also, I have a 22-yo son living with me rent-free on an 8-year graduation plan.  Mama gave up on both of us years ago (unfair as she does take care of his health needs). Yet, he improves each year from a bottom 6 years ago when he spent 3 months in a psychiatric center.  

Rim, you say there are "so many viable scenarios" for not paying for college.  Given what Rose has said, the only one I can envision is that the husband believes the son will flunk out, waste the money, and make it difficult to re-enroll when the son is ready.  Rose admits he is not ready for college, so maybe he will struggle.  However, who knows?  I think almost all fathers would give the kid a chance (with the same philosophy as BC's father).  And if he fails he could drop out early to not affect his record.  And the amount of money "wasted" seems trivial.  So this one viable scenario makes no sense to me.

There is another scenario - the son is a doing drugs and hanging out with bad people.  If so, then he does need a serious dose of character building.  And a drill sergeant and combat would build character.  However, if the son has reasonable values and is just undecided about life, is the need to build character worth the risk of what could happen in wartime service?   

Based on Rose's comments, the son is probably not ready, and that is why I suggested he work (McDonalds) during the day and go to community college at night.  I also like Billy's idea of back-breaking work (I did that one summer and had my highest GPA the following school year).

To answer Rim on divorce.  I rest my case on Rose's words, and she has given the man 8 years.  Please realize that to file for divorce is  not a fait accompli.  It effectively gets the attention of a man who seems to be making all the decisions and ignoring a very bad risk::reward ratio.

And Rose I will not mention your marital situation again.  Best wishes. 

[Rim]

Rim, i don't know how it work in USA but here, if you marry a woman who have already a child, you become responsible for these child because your are his step father... and it is one of the basic responsability of all father to take care of the education of children...

That's not how it works in America. During a divorce the child is granted custody to one or both parents. In the case of a man marrying a woman who already has a child, the woman will probably have joint custody with the child's biological father. The parents who have custody by law are the only parents who can legally exercise authority over that child. However, the mother could cover the word of her husband in her blanket authority over the child, and assuming that she has married a good man and for the right reasons you'd think that she would give her new husband authority over the child, but that isn't always the case. I've seen many times when the step parent has no authority over the child and is seemly only there as a means of financial support.

In America the step parent has little (if any) legal obligation to care for the child beyond the obligation of a baby sitter.

Since they are married, it is not more the son of Rose but the son of both... both are responsible for him...

In a good marriage yes, but by law, not correct.

your "her son" show how really you think, i hope that you are not married to a RW who have already children from previous marriage...

Actually, I was the product of a step family where the biological parent backed the authority of the step parent 100% and it worked out very well. In my experience, the step parent playing the active roll as a parent is the best and most viable way for a step family to succeed. However, many biological parents will not allow their new spouse this authority over their child, which in my opinion, would make it hypocritical to then ask the disenfranchised step parent for post age of majority support. Conversely, some step parents will not accept or abuse authority over a step child. There are also times that the child is of an age, maybe 16+, that trying to introduce the step parent as a figure of authority would be impractical and counter productive.

And it is a difference between "doesn't spend every dime of his paycheck" and "all these years I studied and worked, and provided my living by my own"... why marry if you are not able to share what you have with your partner...

This forum has the tendency to toss the man to the wolves. I think it's probably a Darwinistic trait to help eliminate the competition. I have allowed for both sides of the argument in my posts, and I'll write again that Rose may be reasonably objective in her posts and her husband may be a real jerk, but too many of us are condemning a man based on one side of the story.

Rarely does a relationship digress so miserably due to the fault of only one person.

My point here is that we don't have all of the story so offering suggestions about the family based on one point of view isn't logical. However, I do wish Rose, her husband and her son the best, regardless of what that might be.

[rose]

Rim,
I agree with you 100% on the point that I told you the only one side of the story. One cannot judge based on that. Moreover, I would say that I was not right saying that I supported myself 100%, he helped me out through my school, overall, on school during all these years he spent around $8 000, but his annual income is close to 3 digits number. Because of that I was not qualified for any kind of financial aid. Moreover, because my income was low and at my work they charged me no or minimum tax, he charged me 20%, and I saw tax return checks only when I had to sign them. After that they'll disappear in his own savings. Now, when we both see that possibility of divorce becomes more and more real, and I'm ready to start my first high paid job, my husband informed me that in case of divorce he'll go into early retirement and sue me for alimony. Well, seems again I'm going into details of my marriage, which are irrelevant in this situation.

The point of this topic is WHEN SHOULD WE LET OUR KIDS TO GO. 19 years seems to be the right age, but is it wise to let them to make maybe the most important decision of their lives their first try.
He worked two summers on the construction already, and unfortunately, it didn't changed him. He still looks for an easiest way out, not the smartest.
My husband's approach is to push a person to and often over the limits. I feel my son just wants to escape because he feels nothing can be worse that this. As I say: when you think that it can't be worse, relax, it can.
Tomorrow we are going to talk to the people in Coast Guard again and it probably will be my last chance to try to change his mind if I'll decide that I have the right to do so (to follow mild "force" scenario). I'm not going just to tell him what to do, the thing is that I can through talk try to change his opinion of the situation. If not, Wednesday, he'll probaby will sign the contract with the Army, and by the end of this month he'll be in the boot camp.
So, back to my main question. I know I can influence his decision, but will it be the right thing to do?

[BillyB]

 I know I can influence his decision, but will it be the right thing to do?

You have a right to speak your mind but if he does sign up for the military, then do your best to show support. I think your son feels he needs to feel useful and at the moment he feels his life has no direction. Been there, done that.

If your marriage breaks up, then see an attorney to have your rights explained to you.

[BC]

I think this is the last place Rose's current relationship situation should be discussed, as long as it hasn't been resolved.  Rose has given us more than enough background.

Regarding her son, I think the big factor is that he is now after only a year and a half in the US, he is still adjusting to a new life.  Of course he is a bit disoriented and unstructured after being outside of a 'real' parenting situation for some of the most critical years of his childhood.

I'm a bit surprised that the Army recruiter didn't pick up on this and try to dampen expectations like the CG folks instead of doing the 'gung ho' routine.  I think the Military is a good idea, having done the same myself but he should take the time to talk to all of the branches to expand his choices.  He's probably a bright kid that simply needs to get out of the emotional 'just do it' rut and really start comparing the options he does have.

[Sohkay]

It's interesting...Rose starts this thread about her son. Valid subject. But she keeps on interjecting all of these things about the bad husband. Well, in an effort to achieve fairness and balance, let's look at something Rose wrote yesterday.

"Re: Clothes, Clothes, and MORE CLOTHES!
« Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 05:52:14 AM » Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shoes: Nordstrom Rack, great place which will keep her busy trying for a while...
Clothes: TJMaxx, Nordstrom Rack, Macy's (when they have sales)

It took me almost 8 years to stop. One day I just looked around and realized that I already have clothes enough till the rest of my life. I spent about 3 months selling them on e-bay for give away prices, and still didn't sell even half. "

Now, is this a "contributing family member" sort of attitude on the part of the woman? 8 years of this? That's the entire history of her marriage to her husband. Geez, no wonder the guy was complaining about his muffins! Whether he was paying for the clothes and shoes, or she was, either way, I now see a little more balance to this problem that she doesn't want to talk about, but keeps talking about. Geez, that's a problem too, isn't it. Now, throw in a little black magic/soothsayer consultation, sprinkle liberally with a haughty, "always right" kind of attitude, and fold in being overprotective of a child, and you end up with quite a dish.

Perhaps it's better if Rose takes her own advice, and sticks with talking about the immature son and her overprotection of him.

[jb]

I still think a stint in some military branch will be a growing experience for a 19 y.o. who has not demonstrated an aptitude for university.  Although I'd still not recommend the Army as a first choice, considering the likelihood of spending time in places that people are actually shooting at each other.  Given the situation in Iraq, the Russian army might be the better choice.

WRT a divorce possibility, I cannot comment, it's your life and your choices.  I kinda doubt that a man who has tolerated the above stated spending habits of a woman for 8 years is all that tight fisted with a dollar.  I would have pulled the plug on that a long time ago.  My wife dresses very nicely for a fraction of what you claim to have spent.