Statistics...........And Your Success

[Gator]

Everyone - what this study says is that you need to know your woman and be dedicated to work at marriage. This affair is not the same as going to the pet store, picking the cutest puppy, putting a collar on her, and taking her home.  (I forgot who first said that years ago).  Yet, agency catalogs and hype can make it seem that way.

PeeWee - this is the only study that I know for marriages between alien women and AM.

JB - I have  learned that successful men make their own luck most of the time, which you did by romancing a non-agency woman.

Bruno - with your laws you will find it difficult to get married    A woman would have to stay with you a long time as in a real marriage.  Us American men will have the pick of the litter.

[BillyB]

A few interesting results:
1.   Less than 40% of the men who marry Russian women participate in internet discussion groups on the topic.
2.   Over 98% of the women seeking western husbands via introduction services are aware of the ability to file violence charges against a western man
3.   84% of the women seeking western husbands via introduction services have no moral or ethical qualms about false domestic violence charges if it serves their purposes.
4.   Currently, 52% of marriages fail within a year. 67% fail within two years. This is a considerable increase from the beginning of the study.
5.   Male "Positive thinking" advocates have a higher overall failure rate in the first two years than the "Negative thinkers."
6.   60% of the women did not love their husbands when they married
7.   99% of the men 'loved' their wives when they married.
8.   Marriages that result from a proposal during or just after an initial meeting of a month or less fail within two years 92% of the time.
9.   Marriages that result from a proposal during or just after an initial meeting of two weeks or less fail within two years 97% of the time.
10.   Marriages that involved a woman in a rebound state (new serious relationship which began less than six months after the breakup of a relationship) failed within two years 89% of the time.
11.   Marriages that involved men in a rebound state (new serious relationship which began less than ONE YEAR after the breakup of a significant prior relationship) failed within two years 94% of the time.
12.   Marriages that resulted from 'normal' introductions among women who would never allow themselves to be registered with an introduction agency failed within two years 11% of the time (but the number of these is quite small).

Lots of gloom and doom in this study which leads me to believe what agenda the man conducting the study has? There is lots of good news in the study that he fails to note.

He states marriages fail 92%-97% of the time within two years if a man proposes within a month or few weeks after initially meeting with a RW. He also states marriages fail an average 67% of the time within two years. So to reduce the 92%-97% failure rate to 67%, the men who took over one months time to know their RW before proposing have a high success rate! Maybe only a 40% divorce rate at 2 years of marriage? Keep in mind, the divorce rate for people in their second marriage is 70% for domestic marriages. So it is possible a group of international couples have better marriages than domestic marriages on their second go around. We have to match apples with apples and can't compare international marriages with first time domestic marriages since an overwhelming amount of people who choose an international partner have been divorced at least once.

So for all the people that's depressed after reading those statistics, as long as you don't make hasty decisions on a life partner and spend more time to get to know her, you'll have a much better chance to be in a happy marriage. If she doesn't have the patience to wait a few more months before you propose, then it's better off you don't marry her.

[Bruno]

Sorry, Peewee, but you are 100% incorrect in this.

At no time during this process does the foreign woman have any contact with the BCIS (old INS) until she goes for the AOS interview.  In that case she is in the presence of her husband at all times, never in a closed session where "dirty little secrets" are disclosed.  All contact with American officials up to that point are at the U.S. State Department level, i.e., Embassy and Consular people who do the visa (K-1 or K-3) interview.   If a U.S. Government official ever did such an underhanded thing as advise a foreigner to take advantage of the law for personal gain, that official would themself wind up behind bars eventually.  It just ain't done.

Let say 99% incorrect...

http://usaimmigrationattorney.com/nucleus/index.php?itemid=2#more

4. DOMESTIC VIOLENCE PAMPHLET BROCHURE: Homeland Security will develop and make available on USCIS, State Department and Embassy websites a domestic violence pamphlet brochure in 14 languages and revised every 2 years which discusses the visa process, adjustment of status, conditional residency, marriage and visa fraud, domestic violence abuse rights, where and how to get help and other warnings and notifications.

5. CONSULAR INTERVIEW: The Consular Officer at interview will provide the visa applicant with a copy of the fiancee or spousal petition, and information and documents in her native language on any past marital and divorce history, past criminal history and past domestic violence history of the petitioner. The Consular Officer will also answer any questions about the domestic violence pamphlet brochure. The Consular Officer will also ask the visa applicant if the relationship was facilitated by an International Marriage Broker and , if so, confirm that the broker provided the applicant with information or documents about the petitioner's background.

at http://usaimmigrationattorney.com/images/IMBRA2005.pdf ...page 9, part 5, a, i

Seem that the Pamphlet is send to the applicant of a K non-immigrant visa in the same time that the instruction packet regarding the visa application process... So, RW are informed and documented over everything related to DV... i think that a pamphlet related to the right and duty in a American marriage will be more interesting...

[Bruno]

Bruno - with your laws you will find it difficult to get married    A woman would have to stay with you a long time as in a real marriage.  Us American men will have the pick of the litter.

Not really... first, they are not obligate to marry... second, if they find a new sponsor, they can use it... or if they have a child with me, the child have the Belgium nationality and she don't need me anymore ( mother can stay with child until the 18 year of the child but since only 5 year is needed for a foreign  living in Belgium to receive the nationality on basis of the stay )... and they have several other method that they can use...

The problem with these false DV is the word "false"... it seem so easy to make, it is fast and the man will not more be able to seek a foreign wife ( mean more man for American women  )

[PeeWee]

Hmmm...I'm thinking that I'm 100% right.

4. DOMESTIC VIOLENCE PAMPHLET BROCHURE: Homeland Security will develop and make available on USCIS, State Department and Embassy websites a domestic violence pamphlet brochure in 14 languages and revised every 2 years which discusses the visa process, adjustment of status, conditional residency, marriage and visa fraud, domestic violence abuse rights, where and how to get help and other warnings and notifications.

If each one of them be given this brochure then 100% of them are aware of the DV and as a result almost 100% would answer in the afirmative to the question asked in the survey. Which was the basic for my question...and point made.

Peewee

[jb]

Let say 99% incorrect...

This is the preliminary summary of the scientific study as posted 3-4 years ago.  I recall that CameraGuy found the study.

Bruno, and Peewee,

That so-called "scientific study", which BTW, I place little credence in, was published years before IMBRA came on the scene.  Not one single case studied in that report was under the current IMBRA restrictions, nor did any of those women receive a *pamphlet* detailing a woman's rights under our American DV statutes.

Any information those women came armed with was provided by some other source than the USBCIS or the U.S. Embassy.  I stand by my 100% statement.

[TexasBoar]

Over 98% of the women seeking western husbands via introduction services are aware of the ability to file violence charges against a western man
84% of the women seeking western husbands via introduction services have no moral or ethical qualms about false domestic violence charges if it serves their purposes.

Holy Crap!!!

Yeah, that's what I was saying.  As a noob . . . well, I'm pretty sure I sucked at least one testicle right back up into my body when I read that.

~Boar

[Albert]

Gator says: I have  learned that successful men make their own luck most of the time, which you (JB) did by romancing a non-agency woman.

JB says:   "Wal-Mart Cashier" types populate the MOB catalogs overwhelmingly.

A couple of comments here:  I have never dealt with an agency.  However, I find it very surprising that catalogs would be populated by mostly Wal-Mart type of gals.  JB where do you get this info/feeling from?

I have dated somewhat over 50 FSU women that I met while visiting businesses in FSU, through business acquaintences, in stores, elevators, etc.  Later it was revealed to me by something like 45 or so of them that they were listed with some agency, or were on internet dating sites, had been to socials, etc.  So I would say the chances are pretty slim of finding a non-agency woman.

[PeeWee]

Bruno, and Peewee,

That so-called "scientific study", which BTW, I place little credence in, was published years before IMBRA came on the scene.  Not one single case studied in that report was under the current IMBRA restrictions, nor did any of those women receive a *pamphlet* detailing a woman's rights under our American DV statutes.

Any information those women came armed with was provided by some other source than the USBCIS or the U.S. Embassy.  I stand by my 100% statement.

True...but not knowing the dating of survey nor the dating of the pamphlet I broached the question. So why give them a phamplet if they already know this stuff anyway? Waste of our tax dollars once again.

Peewee

[PeeWee]

I don't think that we want to be too quick to blame those Russian gals for playing their DV cards. Look at this....

"80 percent (American women)
  No, that's not a typo – studies have found that as much as 80 percent of wives suing for divorce cited that they had been physically abused by their husbands." Source: Rita Thaemert, "Till Violence Do Us Part," State Legislatures. National Conference of State Legislatures (March 1, 1993). Archived at: http://www.highbeam.com/library/doc3.asp?DOCID=1G1:13834300

The DV survey percent while it is an issue is apparently not unique to RW but more so unique to women in general.

Peewee

[jb]

To all those who wish to deflect the blame.  Ya know something,  I don't have a shread of *scientific* evidence to support my thesis except my own personal observations.  Look around this board at the long term married guys.  Almost every one of the wives are educated, speak fair to good English, and are pretty dedicated to their husbands and families.  If you get out and about and meet other married couples I think you will find this is the norm, not the exception.  Shop girls who speak little or no English tend not to pass muster going past 90 days. 

You will also want to review some of the crash and burn stories to have a look-see at what kind of woman got sent home without marriage.  If you look with an open mind, I think you will begin to see a pattern emerge. 

[PeeWee]

Over 98% of the women seeking western husbands via introduction services are aware of the ability to file violence charges against a western man
84% of the women seeking western husbands via introduction services have no moral or ethical qualms about false domestic violence charges if it serves their purposes.

Holy Crap!!!

Not so surprising, Viking. We just learned that 80% of AW will do the same. Do you recall the study that we discussed a month or so ago that was made by the US Air Force doctor where he revealed that more than 60% of women who had filed assault charges against men actually lied. I content that the average RW is no different in this regard than her American sister.

peewee

[PeeWee]

To all those who wish to deflect the blame.  Ya know something,  I don't have a shread of *scientific* evidence to support my thesis except my own personal observations.  Look around this board at the long term married guys.  Almost every one of the wives are educated, speak fair to good English, and are pretty dedicated to their husbands and families.  If you get out and about and meet other married couples I think you will find this is the norm, not the exception.  Shop girls who speak little or no English tend not to pass muster going past 90 days. 

You will also want to review some of the crash and burn stories to have a look-see at what kind of woman got sent home without marriage.  If you look with an open mind, I think you will begin to see a pattern emerge. 

Good point. One of the other statistics that I had read was..."Top reasons why American women said they'd gotten divorced –communication problems (69.7 percent)"  If she can't speak  your language she can't communicate with you. 


Peewee

[PeeWee]

http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/aboutus/repsstudies/Mobappa.htm

A website that discusses some of the topics that we are now discussing.

Peewee

[Sohkay]

Look at the guys that are getting into these failed relationships.

Then look at the girls getting into these failed relationships.

These relationships would probably fail no matter what the geography was. And then add in the cultural differences.

It's a bleak picture.

[PeeWee]

This all from the website that I have noted above.

David Jedlicka (1988, cited in Glodava and Onizuka, 1994) surveyed 607 American men seeking mail-order brides and received 206 responses. He found that the men were generally white (94 percent); highly educated (50 percent with two or more years of college, 6 percent with M.D.'s or Ph.D.'s, only five did not complete high school); politically and ideologically conservative; and generally economically and professionally successful (64 percent earned more than $20,000 a year; 42 were in professional or managerial positions). Their median age was 37. The men came from 44 states, with 22 percent from California, and 84 percent lived in metropolitan areas. Fifty-seven percent had been married at least once; most had been divorced after an average of seven years of marriage, 35 percent had at least one child, and 75 percent wished to father additional children. When asked about their religious affiliations, 48 percent of the men identified themselves as Protestant, 23 percent as Catholic, 15 percent as belonging to other religions, and 14 percent as having no religious affiliation.

Although Jedlicka states in his conclusions that his research shows the men who choose the mail-order methods for mate selection appear ". . . above average . . . certainly in their communication skills," and "exceptional in the sense that they are trying cross-cultural marriage to improve their chances for loving and enduring relationships," he cautions that such conclusions are thin at best and such interpretations from these data are not warranted. His experience and the observations of others show that, contrary to responses in questionnaires, those who have used the mail-order bride route to find a mate have control in mind more than a loving, enduring relationship.

Of the 30 mail-order bride couples Mila Glodava (Glodava and Onizuka, 1994) encountered between 1986 and 1993, only two were close in age (4 -6 years difference). In the other 28 there was a 20 to 50 year difference in age. Older men, says Glodava, often want women "they can mold" and therefore do not want those who are too educated. "They would just become like any other American woman," they said. She concludes that, "It is apparent that power and control are critical for the men."

According to data supplied by the U.S. Census Bureau, there were 2,395,000 marriages in the U.S. in the 12 months ending June, 1997 (and 1,154,000 divorces in the same period). The 4,000 to 6,000 marriages involving international services represent, then, a tiny portion (.021 percent) of the women who marry U.S. men.

It is interesting to note that, based largely on data provided by the agencies themselves (along with the Commission on Filipinos Overseas report cited above), marriages arranged through these services would appear to have a lower divorce rate than the nation as a whole, fully 80 percent of these marriages having lasted over the years for which reports are available.

[viking]

Peevee

Good data. Thanks

[Bruno]

Bruno, ...was published years before IMBRA came on the scene.

Your are right JB, i have miss these detail...

[Jet]

Your are right JB, i have miss these detail...

In the post IMBRA world though, the Moscow embassy looks like it's trying to make up for lost time 
From my discussions with a recent interviewee, the walls in the waiting room are plastered with posters in Russian and English detailing just how easy it is to file DV charges, if you feel the need.

At the time of our interview, my wife had no idea about DV charges until I explained the system to her, as part of a comprehensive array of topics designed to get her ready for life here, and help her feel more secure about moving abroad. Funny thing is, she never really believed me anyway and to this day treats cops with the same caution and mild contempt as she did in Russia.

[jb]

hummmmm,,,, yes indeed, Jet.

This was one discussion we had long before the "I do's".  I don't think many women, at least in her right mind, are so desperate for marriage that they don't consider this as a possible aspect before they say "Yes" to a proposal.   Of course, there are "One Week Wonder" brides, as well as husbands.  These are the people who buy the "pig in a poke" at the market trusting to the honor and honesty of the second party to the deal. 

Very foolish behavior, IMHO. 

[William3rd]

Isnt that the 1998 survey that INS conducted? I think I have a copy of that one. There was a masters thesis done in 2002 by a young woman-Chen, I think- that I felt was a more accurate depiction of the situation

[dwfunk]

3.   84% of the women seeking western husbands via introduction services have no moral or ethical qualms about false domestic violence charges if it serves their purposes.

Ouch. 

~Boar

It is true that many women from FSU countries will marry Westerners
for "convenience" rather than for love. By now everybody should be
aware of this.

Knowlege is power.




David & Natalia
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[dwfunk]

Over 98% of the women seeking western husbands via introduction services are aware of the ability to file violence charges against a western man
84% of the women seeking western husbands via introduction services have no moral or ethical qualms about false domestic violence charges if it serves their purposes.

Holy Crap!!!

and this is BEFORE IMBRA .  .  .  .




David & Natalia
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16th World Spacemodeling Championships

[dwfunk]

Let say 99% incorrect...

http://usaimmigrationattorney.com/nucleus/index.php?itemid=2#more
at http://usaimmigrationattorney.com/images/IMBRA2005.pdf ...page 9, part 5, a, i

Seem that the Pamphlet is send to the applicant of a K non-immigrant visa in the same time that the instruction packet regarding the visa application process... So, RW are informed and documented over everything related to DV... i think that a pamphlet related to the right and duty in a American marriage will be more interesting...

All of this is a result of IMBRA.   Prior to IMBRA none of this existed.





David & Natalia
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16th World Spacemodeling Championships

[jb]

Quote from: viking on Yesterday at 03:45:22 PM
Over 98% of the women seeking western husbands via introduction services are aware of the ability to file violence charges against a western man
84% of the women seeking western husbands via introduction services have no moral or ethical qualms about false domestic violence charges if it serves their purposes.

Holy Crap!!!



and this is BEFORE IMBRA .  .  .  .

This is the point I was trying to make, maybe badly, up thread.  In my simple view, the only place these women would be getting all that kind of information was from the MOB agencies themselves, since that was their major contact source.  These are the same agencies which take money from the suckers and then arm the girls with the weapons with which to gut the poor naive bastards in 720 days.

Do you want to be part of some agency's 720 day plan?  What they sell the men is an entirely different package from what they sell the women.  This, IMHO, factors back to the "quality" of the woman involved.   Do you want a shop girl who is accustomed to digging for every Ruble she gets and marries for financial and economic gain, or do you want to marry a woman who really loves you?

It's your call, gents.