Statistics...........And Your Success

[Michelangelo]

This is the point I was trying to make, maybe badly, up thread.  In my simple view, the only place these women would be getting all that kind of information was from the MOB agencies themselves, since that was their major contact source.  These are the same agencies which take money from the suckers and then arm the girls with the weapons with which to gut the poor naive bastards in 720 days.

Do you want to be part of some agency's 720 day plan?  What they sell the men is an entirely different package from what they sell the women.  This, IMHO, factors back to the "quality" of the woman involved.   Do you want a shop girl who is accustomed to digging for every Ruble she gets and marries for financial and economic gain, or do you want to marry a woman who really loves you?

It's your call, gents.

The evidence seems to point that way, JB.   

But my wife knows nothing about such an angle from the agency.  And I am 100% certain of our relationship, so no, she is not a "mole."  Since the majority of men here met their wives via agencies, perhaps others can ask as well?

My hunch is that the data are off.

[Bruce]

I agree with Michael 100%.  Its hard for me to imagine the Tver agencies arming their female clients with this information.  In fact, even the bad agencies are busy trying to make money, not be involved with a 720 day scam of Western men.  Do bad agencies really care about the women at all?  The answer is no.  They, or more likely their photos, are mere bait at best.  Since nothing is in it for them, why would the agencies do it???   The answer is plain and simple, they do not. 

Now, the US government seems to have made it their mandate to "inform" prospective brides of "spousal abuse," and the need to protect them from its evil male wife beating individuals who seek brides from overseas  .

[BillyB]

I was under the impression most agencies were teaching women that Western men make good husbands and fathers to get them to sign up. The last thing they would want to hint at is that we're violent until she's ready to leave the agency and they want her to back off of marriage to a Western man so they could make more money off of her. My guess the reason many women know about how to file domestic violence charges is because the word is passed on through gossip by the trailer trash women in the agencies.

[PeeWee]

If a woman sets out with a deception in mind then she will know full well what her various ploys and deceits will be. 100% of all women are not wired this way. The reverse is the crop of women who have no agenda other than to find a true friend and lover. She will know of her options but never think to act on those option. She can be an Amerian woman, a Martian, or a Russian. Female gender and the thought processes that come hard wired into them know no boundrys. Our mission, should be decide to accept it, it to be smart enough to recognize the bad apple in the barrel only to choose the good apple from that same barrel.

Peewee

[jb]

I can understand there is going to be some breast beating over this idea, no one likes to think their wife or g/f might have something up her sleeve other than creating a cozy home.  But how does one explain that so many women - pre IMBRA- were all privy to so much "how to" information about beating the GC system by filing false DV charges?  They had to learn of it from some place.

If not from the MOB agencies, then where?  Do you suppose all these women, precentages upwards of the three quarters mark, most of whom didn't at that time, have access to computers at home, spent so much time at the Internet Cafe that they all, everyone of them, all got wise to US law all on their own?  Frankly I don't swallow that for one second. 

from BillyB:

My guess the reason many women know about how to file domestic violence charges is because the word is passed on through gossip by the trailer trash women in the agencies.

Billy, you are the one who called these agency women "Trailer Trash" not me.

[BC]

Now, the US government seems to have made it their mandate to "inform" prospective brides of "spousal abuse," and the need to protect them from its evil male wife beating individuals who seek brides from overseas  .

Never underestimate the power of WWN.. Womens worldwide network.. it seems to work quite well.  I went through IMBRA documents a while back and sort of acquired the feeling that the intent wasn't so bad..

I think if someone were to really compare, the laws here in Europe are indeed very similar as it regards DV cases.. but somehow the effect is probably nowhere near that in the US.  I would think a woman screaming DV would have a much harder time getting her permanent residency permit here than a U.S. green card.

I think this may have a lot to do with the 'no tolerance, absolute total benefit of doubt' attitude in the US.  As I see it, this is caused when politics ties the hands of appointed judges (or judgesses?? hehe), limiting or prescribing their sphere of judicial action.  Put a judge on a leash and this is what you get.

Judge: "Three felonies?? - Life without parole.."   "DV involved? - Give her a Green Card.."  Heck, I can even do that..

[PeeWee]

I can understand there is going to be some breast beating over this idea, no one likes to think their wife or g/f might have something up her sleeve other than creating a cozy home.  But how does one explain that so many women - pre IMBRA- were all privy to so much "how to" information about beating the GC system by filing false DV charges?  They had to learn of it from some place.

If not from the MOB agencies, then where?  Do you suppose all these women, precentages upwards of the three quarters mark, most of whom didn't at that time, have access to computers at home, spent so much time at the Internet Cafe that they all, everyone of them, all got wise to US law all on their own?  Frankly I don't swallow that for one second. 

from BillyB:
Billy, you are the one who called these agency women "Trailer Trash" not me.

They having the knowlege is not the problem but rather whether they use that knowlege in a malicious way. They must have the same information about DV on arriving in the US, or any country, same as their native sisters do. How can these women be kept ignorant of their DV rights? Certainly a few of them will choose the wrong AM and as a result they will get beaten.

Malice aforethought is one thing. You chose the wrong woman. Given a chance any woman, in a fit of rage, will use any tool at her immediate command. Be it a butcher knife, a gun, poison, or a DV charge. Any woman knows where to find the butcher knife is she so decides that Wayne is need of a Bobitt or not. I see an RW no different from any woman in this regard. The statistic, as it is presented, is meaningless because any woman would answer the same.

Peewee

[BillyB]

Billy, you are the one who called these agency women "Trailer Trash" not me.

I don't subscribe into Andrew's dirty barrel theory that most all agency women are lowlifes but I'll admit there are a few and those few are most likely the ones that spread the word on how to use a man and use the system in America. Women who gossip are usually up to no good. Loose lips sink ships.

[ConnerVT]

Women don't call it "gossip"

They call it "conversation"

 

[Gator]

84% of the women seeking western husbands via introduction services have no moral or ethical qualms about false domestic violence charges if it serves their purposes.

This high percentage does not surprise me.  These women are survivors.  It is their nature, inculcated by society and perhaps bred into them, and reinforced by personal experiences.  Most would say “yes” if it gives themselves and their family a better life.  I wonder how the survey question was phrased.

I still believe that most women come here in good faith, probably not in love (as the survey found), but in the hope of love with a better life (a question not asked by the survey).

For those women who claim DV within 6 months of arrival, I believe indeed that they have been coached (probably by the agency) and given telephone numbers for the underground railroad to the Russian support group.  It is too drastic of a step to take in such a short period without prior planning and malice of thought.  IIRC, Maxx will swear on a stack of Bibles that Elvira was aided by the agency, who may have demanded some form of payment for finding her a mule.

My question that no one answers:  Where do these women go after the divorce?  They have been married for such a short period that any monetary award can not be great.

[BillyB]

My question that no one answers:  Where do these women go after the divorce?  They have been married for such a short period that any monetary award can not be great.

Gator,

I don't know about where other guys live but where I live there are Women's assistance organizations that will provide a free immigration attorney to help immigrant women become legal in America. Of course there are shelters, churches and other men that will not turn away a damsel in distress.

Don't kid yourself that from a short divorce the monetary award can't be great. If a woman is not legally able to work, you will pay big dollar maintenence(spousal support) until she is legally able to. You are responsible for bringing her over and no judge will put her on government assisting programs making the taxpayers pay for your mistake. You married her, you will pay. No joke guys, get to know your woman before marrying her.

[Jet]

Certainly a few of them will choose the wrong AM and as a result they will get beaten.
Given a chance any woman, in a fit of rage, will use any tool at her immediate command. Be it a butcher knife, a gun, poison, or a DV charge.
I see an RW no different from any woman in this regard. The statistic, as it is presented, is meaningless because any woman would answer the same.

I tried arguing this point on a few of the feminazi blogs a year before IMBRA became law.
They authoritatively pointed out the a full 5% of all battered women in shelters were "mail order brides".
When I asked where the other 95% came from, things got ugly quick 
When I suggested that we make the law more comprehensive, perhaps making background checks a mandatory prerequisite for the issuance of ANY marriage license issued in the US, they resorted to name calling  and told me it was absolute insanity to even suggest such a thing   

While the law may have had a virtuous infancy, the groups that lobbied so heavily for it were not doing so to look after the best interests of the women, but instead to make sure they "screwed over" the men, and that's a fact.

[PeeWee]

I tried arguing this point on a few of the feminazi blogs a year before IMBRA became law.
They authoritatively pointed out the a full 5% of all battered women in shelters were "mail order brides".
When I asked where the other 95% came from, things got ugly quick 
When I suggested that we make the law more comprehensive, perhaps making background checks a mandatory prerequisite for the issuance of ANY marriage license issued in the US, they resorted to name calling  and told me it was absolute insanity to even suggest such a thing   

While the law may have had a virtuous infancy, the groups that lobbied so heavily for it were not doing so to look after the best interests of the women, but instead to make sure they "screwed over" the men, and that's a fact.

That 5% is an odd number to deal with. MOB probably make  up less than 5% of the entire female population here in the US. A statistic I read today said that 90% of DV complaints against women come from women who are not married. Boyfreinds and other males in their lives. Husbands receive very few complaints from women for DV.

"U.S. Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics, "Violence Against Women: A National Crime Victimization Survey Report," January 1994, p. iii)

Over two-thirds of violent victimizations against women were committed by someone known to them: 31% of female victims reported that the offender was a stranger. Approximately 28% were intimates such as husbands or boyfriends..."

No telling what the proportion of the 28% were husbands and which were boyfriends, but let's assume 50% of each. That means that only 14% of all women who filed DV charges did so against a husband. The percents are low. This would suggest that even though 98% of all MOB know about their DV rights only 14% or less would ever act on them.

 


Peewee

[PeeWee]

Regarding the statistic noted earlier that 67% of foreign marriages end after 2 years.

I live in California where the divorce rate exceeds 60% for AM to AW marriages. I marry a woman from the FSU where the divorce rate for RW to RM is 65%. For both of us the risk is not much greater for divorce is we marry knowing that our faliure odds are 67%. Only 2% more for her and only 7% or less for me.
It really puts that shocking 67% number into perspective, doesn;t it?

Peewee

[Momus]

Regarding the statistic noted earlier that 67% of foreign marriages end after 2 years.

I live in California where the divorce rate exceeds 60% for AM to AW marriages. I marry a woman from the FSU where the divorce rate for RW to RM is 65%. For both of us the risk is not much greater for divorce is we marry knowing that our faliure odds are 67%. Only 2% more for her and only 7% or less for me.
It really puts that shocking 67% number into perspective, doesn;t it?

No, it doesn't in my view, because you're comparing a regional average to a national one. If the divorce rate is ~10% higher than the national average in California, then the divorce rate for AM/RW in California is likely to be ~10% higher as well. So, if the 67% figure is accurate, you could be looking at less than a 1 in 4 chance of success beyond two years.

I have nothing to back it up, but my instinct is also that California is a favored destination for GCGs (and RW in general who care more about relocation than marriage), so I would not be at all surprised if the RW/AM divorce rate in that state saw an even bigger bump than the overall +10% you suggest.

[Bruce]

My question that no one answers:  Where do these women go after the divorce?

They go to Brighton and are happy living in immigrant squalor with their own kind.

[jb]

They go to Brighton and are happy living in immigrant squalor with their own kind.

Perhaps some do, but certainly not all.  We personally know of 4 women who have divorced their AM husbands over the past 4 years, and they have remained in the same city they originally settled in.  They get jobs and make a decent life for themselves.  One here in Corpus Christi arranged to go back to nursing school and is doing very well on her own working at a regional hospital.  One in Austin works for an Insurance company, another in California works for the Social Security Administration, and yet another woman in Houston is teaching in the school district there.  So, our experience with the RW divorcees we know is not the same, these women are not living in squalor.

Further, none of these women filed DV charges against their husbands for a GC.  The marriages simply did not work out, they asked for and recieved minimal support until they were able to survive on their own, mostly because they had brought children over with them.  All but one of the husbands were decent guys, just not suited for a Russian wife.  I keep saying this over and over, "Russian women are not for everybody", yet no one takes me seriously when I say that.  We keep talking about these stats like it's always the woman's fault when things go south, that has not been my observation.  I'm guessing the real problems are having to do with unrealistic expectations on both sides and when the woman arrives and the man's patience runs thin we see the fireworks begin. 

Some people just make lousy marriage partners and nothing can change that fact.  So,,, if a man has had multiple failed marriages to AW, odds are; marriage to a RW will not fix the problems he has with getting along with women.

[PeeWee]

No, it doesn't in my view, because you're comparing a regional average to a national one. If the divorce rate is ~10% higher than the national average in California, then the divorce rate for AM/RW in California is likely to be ~10% higher as well. So, if the 67% figure is accurate, you could be looking at less than a 1 in 4 chance of success beyond two years.

I have nothing to back it up, but my instinct is also that California is a favored destination for GCGs (and RW in general who care more about relocation than marriage), so I would not be at all surprised if the RW/AM divorce rate in that state saw an even bigger bump than the overall +10% you suggest.

Perhaps. My premis was based on geographical locations only. What about this? Both men and women cite that the largest reason for them divorcing was lack of communication. It would stand to reason that if an AM married an FW who could not speak his language well that their ability to communicate would lead toward the divorce. That in itself could account for the additional 14% faliure rate and no for not other reasons.

Peewee

[Bruce]

JB, its good to know that divorced RW are adjusted enough to stay in their communities.  I agree, sometimes things are just not mean't to withstand the test of time.

[viking]

Perhaps. My premis was based on geographical locations only. What about this? Both men and women cite that the largest reason for them divorcing was lack of communication. It would stand to reason that if an AM married an FW who could not speak his language well that their ability to communicate would lead toward the divorce. That in itself could account for the additional 14% faliure rate and no for not other reasons.

Peewee

I have mentioned this on another thread (turbos dream trip). Communication is the one of the most basic foundations, if not THE most basic foundation in a relationship. If you cannot talk to each other you have nothing or next to nothing. And even if both parties can speak the same language, there are STILL problems in not being able to speak, listen, understand what the other is trying to do. Gotta have the basics going in.

[Turboguy]

Good point Viking.   Communication has little to do with speaking the same language.   You can speak the same language and not communicate.  Still without a common language..........

[vwrw]

Knowlege is power.

 Knowledge is not power. Knowledge is only tool which can help one to get power…if one manages to use it.       

[viking]

T/G

Love the avatar!!!!! Finally.

[Turboguy]

Thanks Viking!

[Jooky]

What do marriage statistics truly represent?

If statistics show that there is a 50% divorce rate in 2005 doesn't that simply mean that for every 100 marriages in 2005 there were 50 divorces?

These divorces could have been couples that married 2 or 50 years ago. When you look at statistics are they factual census numbers, focused studies or projections? Without specific information you can't make valid comparisons between studies and statistics.

Let me give you an example. Let's say a study that gathers statistical marriage information interviews two women. One married once and never divorce. The other is my grandma who divorced four times. One study might correctly claim that 50% of the women they interviewed divorced. Another study might tally five marriages and four divorces from these two interviews and cite a 80% divorce rate. A study will often gather and present its statistics in a way most favorable to their hypothesis. You might think this is a load of crap, but I've been a part of enough focus studies to know that it's true.

Regardless, here are a few things you can do to avoid becoming a negative statistic.

1. Marry someone you communicate well with.
If you come here asking questions like 'My Russian woman won't have sex with me. Is this normal?' or 'Do Russian women like Asians?' or 'Do Russian women like hamburgers?', you're doing something wrong. Learn to communicate with the people you are, um, communicating with.

2. Marry someone with whom you truly share common goals and interests.
Of course you don't have to pursue the exact same goals, but have at least some general common interests. If you are an absolute sports fanatic, don't pursue a woman who detests sports. If you love the outdoors don't pursue a woman who hates getting dirty. If you are very religious find someone who believes as you do.

3. Marry someone with whom you share a genuine and absolute attraction.
That's right. Find someone who is head over heels for you, who can't resist you and who you can't resist.

4. If you can't find all of the above, keep looking or don't get married.

Don't make the goal of marriage take precedence over the goal of marrying the right woman.