Who is in here with me?

[IAmZon]

I was curious and wanted to look down the hole.  Bent over too far and fell in ... so here I am studying my favorite topic Russian Women.  And I have to ask, "Hey, Guys!  who is in here with me?"  Just respond with a quick sentence on who and why.  I will go first...

My name is Tim.  From Florida, USA.  Just got out of a 10 year relationship with a beautiful woman, who I lovingly must confess was a complete bitch to live with:)  I am sure she is going to meet a man any day now that will think he is the luckiest guy on Earth.  But that is just the surface of it. 

Lesson #1:  I am looking for a lady who is beautiful inside and out.  For one reason, or another, I am with the presumption that I have better chance to find this in Eastern Europe/ Russia than in the US. 

I am 42, look 35, act 30.  And while I can date younger women in the US (24 - 29), I  am $1.00 trading at .75 cents.  In this new environment, it seems that I am $1.00 trading at $1.25.  Rather be a big fish in a small pond kind of thinking.

I have been on RLM (russianlovematch) and feel that if I had studied the situation further and was really READY to fly and have a date, I could have already met several nice girls.  Interestingly, the girls who I felt a connection with ... who invited me to come to their city, are now inactive.  One wrote me a very nice note saying that she was going to commit to another man.  The other evidentially did the same.

So, this may not be a mirage after all. 

And, so I begin in earnest to plan a trip this spring. 

I appreciate all the comments I read here very much.

[PeeWee]

One man's bitch is another man's queen, right? I suspect that if you devote yourself to reading enough forum topics that your question will answer itself. My thought is that, aside from certain cultural differences, that women will be women not matter from where the hail. Look beyond the hype to know the type.

I realize that this did not answer your immediate question but in my mind this process is much more complex and as a result it merits more than a simple answer.

Peevee

[KenC]

Tim,
Welcome to our little forum.  RW are not a mirage, as I have been married to one for the last 7 years!  If it is a dream, please do not wake me up!!  But believe me when I say that there is nothing you can do that will adequately explain the allure of a RW until you actually get on a plane and go there!
KenC

[RESQU]

Tim,

Welcome to the community.  I will tell you there is still hope to get out since you have not made a trip yet!  As a wise man in this venture once told me (Jack Bragg) "once you date one R/W you will not go back to AW"  I am relatively new at this as well, been at it a little over a year now.  Read the Tablets, and all you can on scammers.  There is more than one way to skin a cat, and it will take more effort on your part than what you have previously invested in a relationship.  Read how BillyB went about his search, and also about the guys who believe meeting as many women as possible to find what works for you.  Best of luck to you.

Off topic... where in FL are ya?  I used to live in JAX and have family there.

[TwoBitBandit]

Richard, my advice to you is just get on the plane.  Sign up with a REPUTABLE agency.  I'm nobody's shill, so I'm not going to names any here.  However, I'll send you some recommendations if you PM me. Just fly over there.  Have them set up 3-4 dates a day over a week or 10 days with women whose profiles you've selected.  (You'll need to pick out a lot more profiles than 3-4 a day, since not all the women you pick will be available/willing to meet you.)

I advise this regardless of your long-term approach (write-one-visit-one, write-many-visit-many, write-none-visit-many, etc.)  Get your feet wet.

Once you've done that, you'll have a much better perspective on what this is all about.

There's no reason to wait until the spring.  (I made that mistake when I first started.)  The weather isn't that bad in November, it isn't REALLY cold yet.

IMHO, the biggest mistake guys make (including me) is sitting at home too long.

[Turboguy]

Tim,

Since you started out asking who is in here with you and making an introduction, my suggestion is the check out the starting out and icebreaker section and you will find bios on a lot of the guys.

As far as waiting until Spring, I know you are new but Bandit's advice is great.   It is easy to watch the calendar flip by year after year if you sit back and think what you are going to do in the future.   You can be meeting tons of great gals in weeks going the agency route.  By spring you can be making your trip X to see your special lady again. 

November is not bad for weather and the airfares are low now.  Maybe I can do it easier than some but I came back a week ago, I go back in 4 days and I will likely be back in November.  If you have vacation time or can take it go now. 

[Muj]

I agree with Turpbo Guy,  indecision allows time to pass quickly.  Plan now and go.  I made two trips during company slowdowns,  Thanksgiving and New Years.     

[DKMM]

Well you came to the right place.  It is a bit more involved than just getting on a plane and hoping the wind will blow your way.  Look at BiggieJimmie's report for an example of inadequate planning.  Or should I say, the folly of not making enough Plan B's. 

Pick a geographic area 1st.  That is the true starting point.  I cannot stress it enough so it is the only adivice I dispense to get the point across.  And make sure its somewhere that you can travel to without much difficulty (I suggest not making Barnaul your 1st experience).

[IAmZon]

Olgo, thank you sooooo much!!

I was beginning to bend too much into the "strategy", and about to forget the human part entirely.  I take your remarks right to the heart - and head:)

[DKMM]

Then after you get to know some RW very well, narrow your search down to only five or ten possibilles and start planning a trip.

Ahh therein lies the rub.  I had this same progression then it hit me, whoa! I can't fly to freaking Volgograd, Kiev, Estonia and St. Petersburg!  Then what to do??  Better to have 5 to 10 possibilities within traveling distance of each other.  Easier to do in Ukraine than in Russia... and you can't very well talk to all available women and narrow it down from there.

I'm not saying my way is the only way, but it makes the most sense for a 1st timer in my experience.

[KenC]

Hi Rivardco,

You can see my background in "ice Breakers."

Sorry, but I don't agree a lot of the advice you are getting here. As a Russian woman looking for a good (and smart) Western husband I was never impressed by some guy who just jumped on a plane, comes to my country and decides to hit on me because he likes how I look in a photo. Seems like a guy who doesn't know what he wants or what he is doing to me. And very strange for men in their 40s and 50s to be acting like this. Some put more thought into a fishing trip. Next i am married to such a guy and he's on a plane to "find" something else about his life again?

Also I do not agree with just picking a geographical location. The RW who is your perfect mate could be anywhere from Lithuania to Kamchatka. Just waiting for you. What if you don't pick her city? You mighht fly right over her apartment building at high distance on your way to get scammed in a city you think SHOULD have your perfect wife.

Start by corresponding with lots of RW. Get to know them before investing a lot of time and money in a trip. You can cover millions of square miles in a short time for little money with letters. Then after you get to know some RW very well, narrow your search down to only five or ten possibilles and start planning a trip. When you are corresponding to not get "off your track" by involving with too much romantic loving talk. A little bit is O.K., but stay away from RW who only want to put these noodles on your ears. Your object should be to transfer as much giood information as possible with each other about making the important decision of a life partner!

Hope it helps

Olga

Olga,
Maybe it is your lack of understanding of English, but when we say "get on a plane and go" of course we mean to do some groundwork, silly girl.  You are more than a little naive to think that a lot of guys literally jump on a plane without a plan or at least some preliminary contact with the ladies.  It is far more common for a man to do endless "research" and send countless emails and never actually go.  One trip to Russia is more valuable than years of Internet research.  Oh and geography does count too.  I agree that a man should follow his heart to his first choice, but his "back ups" should be from the same neighborhood.
KenC

[ConnerVT]

Olga, even though many of us here know how you and Doug met, we have really only heard the story from Doug's perspective.  Perhaps if you told us more from your point of view, those who don't fully believe in your strategy would be more open minded.

Some things that I would be curious about are:

-- How many men wrote to you?
-- How many men did you correspond with (as in exchanged several letters)?
-- Did you meet any other Western men besides your husband?
-- What would you have done if, when you finally met Doug, you found that he wasn't as he represented himself to be?

[KenC]

Ken C,

I understood your English just fine. Is mine not clear?

If you really did understand, then you would know that we didn't mean to literally "just jump on a plane and go" without making some prior contacts.  So I guess you didn't understand it completely. 

I said I disagree with your advice and I still do. Please do not try to twist my words to fit what you and all of your buddies here keep agreeing with each other on over and over again. Is prerequisite to being accepted on this forum to always agree with you and other "good 'ol boys"?

If you disagree with the ideas I write, then argue the ideas not that you are up against some "good 'ol boys" network.  That is weak.  No one is twisting your words here.  You are just "parroting" Doug's plan because it worked for him and you.  Great for the two of you.  But there are other ways that work also.  They all don't follow your script, my dear.

I also disagree with a long extended email relationship and the idea to keep romance out of the correspondence.  The way you describe it, it sounds like a business deal instead of a romantic bonding of two souls.  If your relationship was of a more practical nature, fine for you, but I went with my heart.

Who is most naieve here? Young RW or old gullible AM?

Olga

Um, you?  Because you think the only way to do this is your way.
KenC

[ConnerVT]

Olga, thank you for answering my questions in such detail.  It is interesting to hear of someone's search from the RW perspective.

It is all about the numbers, at least initially.  2000 letters are certainly a small mountain of correspondence.  I know it probably wasn't 2000 different men, but even so, it needed to be trimmed down to 100 potential men, then to 25 you communicated with regularly.

Even after all of that communication, 4 out of the 5 men which you finally met you found unsuitable.  So with the time, effort, and expense that both you and the men expended, it was decided shortly after meeting that there was no future for a relationship with a large majority of the men that had made it through your screening process.

If Doug had turned out to be as the others, you were nearly ready to give up on your search.  Seems like all of your efforts were almost wasted.  It seems that there is a great deal of luck involved in ever meeting a suitable partner, no matter where they may live.

It is interesting that you said you "really do not think he would have found the right girl in Krivoy Rog or even in Keiv."  Are there no good women in either of those cities?  I find that hard to believe.  Possibly, there are good people found in almost everywhere one looks.  The trick is looking for them in a successful manner.

From your perspective, you were on the receiving end of much attention.  2000 letters certainly prove that.  And it took much effort on your part to sift through all of those letters, remember which man was which, and narrow them down to whom you would meet.  From the men's perspective, along with all of these things, they also need to find the time and money to travel, as well as many times arrange for interpreters, accommodations, translating letters, and more.

And then there is a reasonably good chance that once they arrive, it is not as they thought it would be.  A very high cost, emotionally as well as in time and money.  Sometimes, people will overlook some obvious flaws, in order to protect their 'investment' of emotions and expenses, and not admit that there isn't a good basis for a relationship.  This is one of the dangers of basing the start of a relationship with a long period of correspondence.

What KenC and his buddies suggest seems to be sound advice.  Sift through the initial correspondence, then meet someone rather quickly, rather than corresponding for a long period of time.  See if the potential is there, if the two of them "look right" together.  Then, after meeting, develop a strong relationship through correspondence (and telephone conversations).

The other idea that is offered is to limit a search to one geographical area at a time.  As you know, American men don't have all the vacation time to travel extensively.  Time spent bouncing across the FSU from one city to another is time not spent meeting people and getting to know them.  Four of the five men who traveled to meet you went home alone, a bit older, and a bit poorer.

The odds are not in a person's favor that they will find the right person on any given day.  You must admit that, be it luck or fate, you beat the odds the day that you and Doug finally met...

[Muj]

Olgas

Your comment on many not honest in their pictures supports the logic of visiting sooner than later.  You may learn much in the letters.  Another benefit of writing is a man may learn some of the FSU mentality, culture, and women.  However, after a few weeks of writing the knowledge gains diminish.  The face to face proves much more decisive than months of writing.  Writing for months may indicate indecision on a person.  Sorry for the poor showing by the American men.

[KenC]

Ken C.

Who gives you right to call me "silly girl" "dear" and "parrot"? Please do not get me confused with other young Russian wife.

I sure hope my father does not do something so "romantic" as you describe. It would be understandable for man in his 20s but 50 years old man? Women serious on marriage like a man with heart but respect more the one who makes important decisions with his brain. Man who thinks with "heart" does have some use for certain women but he is usually last one to see what that use really is.

If you reallly believe there are other ways that work then you would accept my disagree. But instead you seem to want to put me down.

Olga

Olga,
What a cold world you must live in.  Finding the love of your life is in no way similar to doing a market survey.  I guess there is a big difference between two people in serious (desperate?) search for a spouse and two people that just happened to fall in love.  I wonder why you were so serious (desperate?) to find a husband?  Sometimes fate is much kinder than the best laid plans.  It does seem as though you and Doug found your own perfect match.  You won him from a cast of thousands just as he did you.  Congratulations!  By the way, following your heart does not preclude anyone from also using their brain too.   Your way just seems very cold and calculating to me.  Almost unnatural.
KenC

[DKMM]

This board is so great!  I wish more Olga's would step up with some stories of how it went down.  Unfortunately for me, every girl I met I was the 1st guy that visited so I never got to hear from a RW's perspective what its like when other guys do it. 

Anybody know where there are more stories like this?

[ConnerVT]

Unfortunately for me, every girl I met I was the 1st guy that visited ...

And you believed that?   ???      

[jb]

OMG~! Conner, you have no idea how bad I was biting my tongue over that one. 

[DKMM]

OK well I didn't count the ones that I was hooked up with by the ex-agency terp.  My 2 girls that I sought out definitely never met an American before, or they were incredibly careful about lying to me, even getting their parents to lie with them.

[ConnerVT]

OK, OK, I just couldn't resist asking the question.  I think I used the appropriate smilies in the correct combination.   

[IAmZon]

My thread ... more decorum please.

I welcomed Olga's comments. That is exactly what I was seeking -  ideas from those who believe in them. 

Probably all strategies work!

I can not believe that if I took a long walk in any crowded  city, I would not have the opportunity to meet many women. Really don't need rocket science to figure that out - it is just the birds and the bees.

It is the notion of filtering and exchanging the greatest amount of data to Prue-establish interest and compatibility to a very large group that I think is so cool.  It is like speed dating on steroids.  From that standpoint Olga's strategy is one I will certainly adopt!

That does not mean I will not take a vacation to see what there is to see as well.

  Papa Hemingway wrote "Life is a Moveable Feast."  I agree.  Let us all live with a little earnest in our heart:)

(PS - I think Olga's opinion's are those expressed by any self respecting woman who were hearing us guys talk among ourselves.  I think it serves us all well)

[DKMM]

OK rivardco, back to your original post.  Your strategy starts with writing a bunch of girls, and that takes a long time.  Then you have to narrow it down and figure out which one you want to meet.  Over time you start to notice them become inactive etc.  I think you really need to see them within maybe 2 months of starting correspondence or you risk losing their interest due to numerous factors.

And you can't very easily make travel plans to leave 2 weeks after you picked the "one" or ones.  It really makes the most sense your first time to pick the one girl you like early on, then search for a bunch of backups that live near her, and make the travel plans.  Then get to know her, and if it falls through jump on the line with the others (again why Barnaul is not a good idea) and you should be able to line up plenty on your first run.  Its crucial to close that time gap between the first emails and landing at the airport.

[jb]

My thread ... more decorum please.

rivardco, whatever that stands for, here's a tip for you.  After just two weeks, and 9 posts as a member of our forum, please do not presume to lecture Conner, or me, or anyone else for that matter about thread decorum.  That kind of kneejerk reaction was uncalled for.  There will no doubt come a time, since you are a total newbie, when we may take you to task about something really serious.  Are you going to be like some others and whine that we weren't "nice" to you if you post something stupid?

I suggest you go back to the archives and read some of Photo Guy's threads so you can get a feel how real men talk to each other when the issues get serious.

[KenC]

My thread ... more decorum please.

Toughen up son, RW like their men strong and manly.

I welcomed Olga's comments. That is exactly what I was seeking -  ideas from those who believe in them. 

Probably all strategies work!

Nope, all strategies do not work.  In fact, most strategies fail if you are using "finding the one" as a measurement of success.

I can not believe that if I took a long walk in any crowded  city, I would not have the opportunity to meet many women. Really don't need rocket science to figure that out - it is just the birds and the bees.

No doubt about it, but would you gamble $5K and a couple of precious vacation weeks on that kind of strategy?  Wouldn't it be a bit smarter to meet a high concentration of women interested in foreign men at say an agency and then still keep your eyes open?

It is the notion of filtering and exchanging the greatest amount of data to Prue-establish interest and compatibility to a very large group that I think is so cool.  It is like speed dating on steroids.  From that standpoint Olga's strategy is one I will certainly adopt!

Actually, pre-establishing interest and compatibility to a large group is not unique or original to Olga.  Everyone has to develop a way to refine their list of possibilities from the thousands of potentials.  The point Olga makes (of which I disagree) is to have an extended email/phone relationship (without romance) prior to meeting.  I in turn reccomend that you go visit a group of women in the same general vicinity shortly after you begin your correspondence.  There are a number of advantages to doing it this way.  #1 You need to experience a trip to the fsu to put everything into proper perspective.  You really have no clue what it is you are dealing with until you make that trip.  #2 An extended electronic relationship promotes a fantasy of unrealistic expectations on both sides of the ocean. #3 Going to meet a group of women in the same general area with or without prior correspondence allows for the spontaneity of a chance meeting of someone that just might be "the one" for you.  Maybe a woman that does not have the writing skills (or an interpreter with the writing skills) to catch your attention from afar, but one that can steal your heart in person.

That does not mean I will not take a vacation to see what there is to see as well.

  Papa Hemingway wrote "Life is a Moveable Feast."  I agree.  Let us all live with a little earnest in our heart:)

(PS - I think Olga's opinion's are those expressed by any self respecting woman who were hearing us guys talk among ourselves.  I think it serves us all well)

Just remember that this is not a science project.  Not all variables fit into nice neat boxes on a spread sheet.  If you want a solid future relationship you must allow enough face to face time in order for the relationship to develop in a more natural manner than just electronic communication.  The first trip is the most important one because until you go, you have no idea.  Plan on many more trips too, but make them all count.  We have a guy here (Turbo) that has done as Olga suggests, and runs to the fsu to meet one woman at a time.  He is in his tenth year of that program and has yet to find "the one."  Good luck to you.
KenC