Learning Language

[IAmZon]

I doubt I can learn Russian, or Ukraine in my spare time - with no one around me to hear or speak with.

HOWEVER,  if I had to study one, or the other, which should I choose? Russian or Ukraine?  Is it a realistic to think I could learn several hundred words, and be able to place them in some kind of acceptable context within 3 to 4 months?

[Bruce]

Learn Russian.  Ukrainians know Russian and a good part of the Ukrainian population in the Eastern part of Ukraine really think of themselves as Russians anyway.  Every girl I ever met in Ukraine spoke Russian first.

[Admin]

I doubt I can learn Russian, or Ukraine in my spare time - with no one around me to hear or speak with.

HOWEVER,  if I had to study one, or the other, which should I choose? Russian or Ukraine?  Is it a realistic to think I could learn several hundred words, and be able to place them in some kind of acceptable context within 3 to 4 months?

Re: Which Language. Russian remains the dominant language in Ukraine and is understood (and sometimes spoken) even in the nationalistic center around Lviv and western Ukraine.

Re: Time Necessary. It all depends on your level of commitment and discipline. In 4 months it is possible to gain more than only a few hundred words. It is possible, with a daily commitment and study of an nour a day, to be able to have a working vocabulary of more than 1000 words, and to be able to muddle your way through many day-to-day communications in Russian. The Pimsleur Comprehensive series is designed to be used over a 3-month period - and it is excellent. You can buy them (they are NOT cheap) from the RWD Storefront.

Good luck to you.

- Dan

[Michelangelo]

I doubt I can learn Russian, or Ukraine in my spare time - with no one around me to hear or speak with.

HOWEVER,  if I had to study one, or the other, which should I choose? Russian or Ukraine?  Is it a realistic to think I could learn several hundred words, and be able to place them in some kind of acceptable context within 3 to 4 months?

Dan is correct.   And it's my experience, no matter how many words or phrases you learn, it pleases the locals.  So study hard.

BTW-I like very much the program that works off my i-pod.  It is the most practical program I have found, and it's inexpensive (if you have an ipod :-)

[docetae]

I doubt I can learn Russian, or Ukraine in my spare time - with no one around me to hear or speak with.

HOWEVER,  if I had to study one, or the other, which should I choose? Russian or Ukraine?  Is it a realistic to think I could learn several hundred words, and be able to place them in some kind of acceptable context within 3 to 4 months?

Learn russian ... and the pimsleur method is good but do not replace talking with native speakers. Personally, I use the pimsleur method + books.

The issue with the pimsleur methid is that you need to be an auditive person, if you are visual (like me) , the best is to listen the tape and to write it after .. Russian alphabet is easy to learn, in less than one week you should be able to master it.

[Rvrwind]

Learning words & some short phrases is not difficut. Learning proper grammer is what will knock you on your butt!
My MIL is a Russian grammer teacher & she insists that even very few Russians understand & use proper Russian grammar. Then there is the other group that can speak fairly intelligently but when they write a letter or an article as she says "its horrifying" 
I am only grateful that Russian folks I know & have met accept my bad Russian with a grain of salt & most times even take a moment to explain to me the proper way. However if you don't use it on a regular basis you will find it slipping away very fast. It is a difficult language but if you can master the vowels you will have come far for English speakers are not used to forming such sounds.
But as was stated above, any attempt to communicate in their native language is much appreciated & you may find yourself as I have, looking on while ever Russian in the room is rolling on the floor in hysterics because you pronounced the word wrong, way wrong!.

[docetae]

I will add the knowledge of latin and german help a lot in this process to learn russian ...

[SANDRO43]

I will add the knowledge of latin and german help a lot in this process to learn russian ...

And Greek as well : Saint Cyril was shrewd (or unimaginative) enough to use mostly Greek letters whenever phonetically possible, and to invent new letters (e.g. Ш, Ы, Ж, etc.) elsewhere, when he was trying to write down the sounds of that barbarian language (from βάρβαρος = alien, non-Greek, uttering incomprehensible sounds).

Therefore, Rivardco, if you have enough spare time and are also fluent in Latin and Greek, Russian should be no problem for you .

[Jet]

It is a difficult language but if you can master the vowels you will have come far for English speakers are not used to forming such sounds.
But as was stated above, any attempt to communicate in their native language is much appreciated & you may find yourself as I have, looking on while ever Russian in the room is rolling on the floor in hysterics because you pronounced the word wrong, way wrong!.

YEP! been there!
Hint: When trying to pronounce anything you read, wherever you think the intonation should be, YOU ARE WRONG! put the intonation any other place and you will probably be closer to the correct pronounciation 

[Phil dAmore]

Consider also listening to Russian radio (via internet) so you get your ears used to hearing the rhythm of the Russian language.

Here's a good place to get started:

 www.russianinternet.com/radio/

[jb]

Learning the Cyrillic alphabet will take a day or two, it can be fully mastered in a week.

I've tried the tapes and Cd's, and in my view they are not a replacement for a real live teacher.  I don't mean by that to suggest just anyone who speaks Russian, not everyone can teach, or has the knowledge of where to start to teach someone a second language as complex as Russian.  I think you are better off in a real school, taught by real teachers, than trusting to self taught methods.  However, there's not likely to be much in the way of instant gratification in the process either way, it will be hard work to get to the point you need to be in 4 months.

I would suggest that with dedication, and proper tutelage, perhaps reinforced with the use of the audio tapes and Cds, after 4-6 months one can be fairly well versed with enough Russian to not get too lost on his wanderings in the FSU.

Everyone is different, and from personal experience I can say that there are some sounds in Russian that are impossible for the western tongue to make because of the way we set/position  our tongue within the mouth.  English is spoken with the tongue low in the mouth against the lower teeth.  Russian, and French BTW, sets the tongue high in the mouth against the upper teeth to make some of those strange noises.   This, I believe, accounts for the different accents.  A Russian woman trying to speak English has the sexiest accent ever, because she still posits her tongue in the same manner as she does when she speaks Russian.  If you listen to her as she speaks Russian, you will not hear that sexiness in her voice. 

Whatever method you choose, you'll be a better person for having tried to learn something new anyway, and the ladies you visit will be impressed by your efforts.

[Michelangelo]

... from personal experience I can say that there are some sounds in Russian that are impossible for the western tongue to make because of the way we set/position  our tongue within the mouth. 

Great point!

Now I know why I can't say some of those Russian words  ???

[SANDRO43]

Everyone is different, and from personal experience I can say that there are some sounds in Russian that are impossible for the western tongue to make because of the way we set/position  our tongue within the mouth.  English is spoken with the tongue low in the mouth against the lower teeth.  Russian, and French BTW, sets the tongue high in the mouth against the upper teeth to make some of those strange noises. 

Depends on how far west you go, IMO .

English-speaking people seem to have special difficulties in acquiring decent accents in foreign languages, maybe because the British Empire long-maintained the idea that they had no need for foreign languages (others should learn English, if they wanted to communicate, and the upper classes learning Latin and Greek in colleges were not much concerned with accents) on the one hand, and the US long isolationist tradition on the other hand.

However, it is not impossible, under favourable circumstances : I heard Jodie Foster interviewed on France's Antenne 2, and she showed fluency and a very decent French accent (IIRC, she was in a French-Swiss school for some time). Heard Sigourney Weaver there as well, willing but faring much worse.

Polyxenogloxy (the capability of speaking many foreign languages) is in large part a hereditary disease , i.e. a particular type of mind as in the case of those with a natural aptitude for mathematics, drawing, music, etc. The case of the music-mind is probably rather close since, if you have to reproduce a foreign sound, first you have to HEAR it .

[LatinSwede]

In no way would I claim my Russian is at the level of Tolstoy.  Infact, I'm probably my own worst critic when it comes to speaking Russian.  Most of my learning came from do it your self lesson books and dictionaries.  Another channel I use is just plain entertainment.  I listen to Russian music and watch Russian movies (like Spetsnaz, Zvesda, Bymer Brat) at home.  Everytime I put on a Russian DVD movie, it's like I see a different version of the movie.  Like something the person said that I missed, comes in clear as day the next viewing.  IMO, I probably learn more Russian (I really do need to use it) during a acouple weeks visit to Odessa, than months of trying to get it out of books at home.

Some Russian and Ukrainian friends (guest workers) said that I sound fine.  I still think they are being to nice about it.  Infact I told them, if I say something wrong correct me.  Luckily my (future) mother in law is also school teacher.  When I first met the Mrs mama, I showed her my "Russian in 10 Minutes a Day" lesson book.  She took a pe and picked it aprt like "no that's wrong.  You say it like this." and so on. 

[jb]

from chivo on another thread:

While its commendable to learn some Russia I doubt you're going to understand much when you get here. I've been here for 2 years and have been learning the language for the last, and I get lost with the language many times. unless you're some great linguistic freak, don't bank to much on this. but, yes, the more the better and any little bit will help somewhat.

It's true, nobody will get real fluency in 4-6 months of study, I don't think that's even the objective.  Hell, I have heard Russian everyday in my house for the past 5 years and I'm nowhere near fluent.  I think however, that by arming themselves with some basic phrases and a mastery of the Cyrillic alphabet, a man might be able to navigate the Moscow Metro without getting completely lost and to do some shopping at the supermarket on their own.  In my experience, when confronted by a foreigner speaking what amounts to 'baby talk', the average Russian will slow down from the usual machine gun rapid fire rate of speech and try mightily to make at least simple conversation.  Taken one-on-one, Russians are basically a very friendly people.

The importance and the beauty of learning the Cyrillic alphabet so completely is that once you can make the sounds of each letter/symbol, you can begin to read words.  Unlike our alphabet which has soft and hard, short and long sounds, those Cyrillic alphabet sounds do not, (most of the time) change.  After you can read the written word, learn to count, learn the colors, learn the difference between right and left, etc., you can then begin to build a basic vocabulary.  In the beginning it is necessary to read aloud, as this helps improve your speaking of the language as well as reinforcing the vocabulary.

Good luck to you.