do we really change with age?

[TexasBoar]

I guess I need to start typing s  l  o  w  e   r.   

I have not said women prefer old, ugly, decrepit, bald, fat, geezerish men.

Nor have I said they are not attracted to young good-looking ones.

I have said, rather, than they are far less visually-oriented than men, and much more likely to be swayed by romance.  These are, as it happens, facts on the ground, broadly speaking.

But, sensing another bout of weirdly gay obsession with other men's physical attractiveness in the making, I'm gonna leave this thread to the . . . spankers. 

~Boar

[Mamma D]

Mercy Me............... I certainly hope so.......

How would you think about walking instead of crawling?
Or crying instead of talking?
Or stuck at first gade level.....or the awful teens, trying to find who you are in time and space.....?

Oh YES, I Do CERTAILY HOPE SO!   

[viking]

mspanky

We do need to separate reality from fiction. The romance novels have the tall ,dark ,muscular guy but also the beautiful, young, well endowed lady. I have seen many women try to meet some good looking jock type only to be turned off by his personality, speech, manners etc.. I have met some truly beautiful women and you can keep them for the same reason. I have met women, who by any standard would not be considered pretty, but had a spark about them that just turned you on. Its called personality.Sometimes that is more important.

Some guys love a corvette. Sleek, fast and sexy. Some guys want a jeep because it is rugged and go over mountains. To each their own.

[jb]

Now you guys are getting strange on me......

[mspanky]

   Viking,

   Sure personality is king,for most sane men and women. But you really think a man's personality comes through when he is in Russia, not being able to speak fluent Russian? Do you thin k he is looking at her personality over her great legs,when he can't really understand her?

   Some guys using a translator to talk to his woman or trying to get laid within the 1st or 2nd date because he is on a timeline? Also, how many guys are not there embelishing on who they are? How many women are in for a suprise and shock the guy they thought they were marrying is not who they think he is after all? All this comes out with communication and actully living in the same place.

   How many women when honestly polled will say they were not in love with the AM when they married him, but hope to grow to love him.


   Old guy who can't really communicate through language or relate through culture or generation gap with sexy young Oxana's should'nt fool themselves they'll find true love with youngins,due to their great personality and their mutual great communication. Unless of course those older guys are getting plenty of attention from young American girls, because they happen to have that special quality young girls go crazy for. Unfortunately, few older men have that quality.
   

[BillyB]

   Dan, you may say women are not looking for attraction in a male, but I have seen many women respond well to good looking men. Wonder why the myth of young gorgeous women married to older guy but doing the poolboy or her trainer comes from? They want something their husband is not.

So what you're saying is that young beautiful women would prefer to marry an older, mature, man with a good job over a handsome young man making minimum wage cleaning pools? That kind of puts into perspective what women think is more important and looks doesn't seem to be the highest on their list.

[mspanky]

  No,
  I'm saying women are practical. They don't necessarily marry the guy who turns them on. But rather a good provider even if they're not attracted to him.. But being married to a good provider does'nt mean they don't want hot sex with the types of guys they're physically attracted to. poolboy,trainer may be great sex partner, but not marriage material.They still gotta have a roof over their heads and feed the kids.So they have to be practical!

   If we were the ones who got pregnant, had to raise babies and toddlers and got stuck alone and broke with the kids if the "wife" decided to leave with a younger model I bet we would marry for more practical reasons than" She's got great boobs and legs". .

  Last year Tom Leykis(radio personality) hit upon this exact subject. He was upset that at least men marry who they are attracted to and don't look for meal tickets.

    It was amazing the amount of women calling in who admitted their husbands did'nt ring their bell physically at all. But they wanted a reliable guy who will be a good father and husband which that rarely is the hot guy.They loved their husbands, but did'nt have lust for them. So they settle for a good stable guy over the unstable guy who lights their fire. Wonder if you can get a transcript of the show.

[IAmZon]

Viking, your right!

If one is in the US, and tries HALF as hard to get a date with a "not so ugly" woman in her late 20's, as this FSU thing takes ... and still fails  ... the writting is on the wall.  That guy is stretching his capacities.

If, on the other hand, you pull it off ... possibly, one less thing to worry about.  Now the challenge is ONLY about HUGE language, cultural, and other environmental differences.

This is a very significant undertaking!  I wonder why we are all so intrigued?

[Son of Clyde]

I think you are losing the gist of my post.
Yes, our needs do change over time and our general outlook.
At 56 my whole life is not in front of me, 2/3 of my life is behind me.
But I am still, deep down, the guy I was in 1976. It just so happens my needs have changed over time. I am the same person with many of the same interests.

[TexasBoar]

   I can imagine in 10 years the . . .  husband now 70 ,with no muscle tone, sagging wrinkled skin,thickening waistline,losing hair and health issues can't be a very sexually stimulating sight for these women.

     Reality is young people are rarely physically attracted to old folks with failing health and unattractive body, just like young men are not attracted to old ladies with saggy boobs and wrinkled skin.

This man is 91 years old.

You would be, what, 12? 16? 20-something?  Certainly you've a warped and puerile view of what aging entails.  No one here gets out alive, but not everyone hobbles out that door, either, kiddo.

~Boar

[mspanky]

  This guy is exceptional at 91. But it is not the norm.He is also an athlete.

  But even with an athletic background these guys ain't faring so well and they probably look a lot better than your average senior citizen. I doubt young women are finding them sexy.

http://www.ettaclarkphotography.com/images/PIC2A.JPG  73 years old

http://www.ettaclarkphotography.com/images/PIC4A.JPG   81 years old

http://www.ettaclarkphotography.com/images/PIC3A.JPG   71 years old

[Sohkay]

Boar,
I did a search on the title of the poster, and the man in the photo is a 67 year old weight lifter by the name of John Turner. But interestingly enough, this photo comes from a collection of photos by a woman named Etta Clark. She did a photo study of athletic older people, Growing Old Is Not For Sissies. You can find info on the book here.

http://www.ettaclarkphotography.com/

Now, why did you say this guy is 91?

Sohkay

[TexasBoar]

He was advertised as being 91 when the book was originally published, and referenced as such in several reviews of it, Sohkay.  I was in college at the time, and working in a bookstore, so I'm quite familiar with the book, and went looking for that photo specifically.

If he's "only" 67, then my information is wrong, but my point still stands, I would think.  There's old, and then there's old.  Sweeping, broad denunciations on principle are just plain silly, as every individual, is, well, individual.

Goes for the younger women, too. There are 28-35 year old women still hitting the clubs and discos every weekend, and 28-35 year old women running their own companies. My own personal feeling is that at, oh, 23 or so, a woman's generally still a kid, most of the time, and while frequently cute, not all that interesting.  But at 28-25, or thereabouts, most women are who they are and who they're going to keep being . . . at that point, the important question is not the age difference, but the lifestyle commonalities.

That both will get older is a given.  But again, there's old and then there's old.

~Boar

[Momus]

Some people can convince themselves of anything if the motivation is great enough. It's obviously not difficult for a man to tell himself what he wants to hear when the motivation is a beautiful young woman half his age (or less).

"I'm young at heart."
"Women my age can't keep up with me."
"I look 10 years younger."
"Chicks dig Sean Connery."
"I'm still the same person I was when I was 20."
"There are always exceptions."
"Our case is special."

Lust and longing will always be more powerful, for some, than common sense and self-discipline. Livin' the dream, baby. Just livin' the dream.

[TexasBoar]

*shrug*

48 (me):

39, according to profile:


Tough call, ya ask me, though I'm sure I'm just being self-deluded and unrealistic.  Never said it's ALWAYS a good idea . . . just that it's not ALWAYS a bad one.  Don't know why that raises so many hackles, considering the average point spreads of the successes around here.

~Boar

[Momus]

Sorry to burst your bubble, Boar, but you don't look 10 years younger -- I look 10 years older. I wish someone had pointed out to me in my 20s that I might actually live to be 40. Bastards. 

Anyway, this would never be an issue except that there ARE exceptions. The problem is, a hundred guys all know they're the exception and 99 of them are wrong.

[Sohkay]

Boar,
No doubt. Seeing John Turner at 67 gives me inspiration about maintaining good muscle tone. As an aside, if a man over 50 doesn't do strength training of some type, he can lose up to 1/2 pound of muscle yearly.

Spanky,
Your showing how much you don't know about mature human love. You are basing all on topical factors, on the outside, skin deep, hence a shallow perspective. One way this is evidenced is by your narcissistic philosophy that if a marriage partner finds another person more sexually attractive than their spouse, it automatically implies unfaithful sexual relations will occur. Try being married to someone for 15 years...and see if at some point in the marriage you don't find another sexually attractive, or even feel a sexual click with them...even though your own wife may be svelte and attractive.

It's really an individual thing guys. Some like 'em older, some like 'em younger, some like 'em somewhere in between. There's guys who should never consider someone even 5 years younger than themselves, and there are guys that can do great with a one or two decade age difference. Some people come off as such self-righteous boneheads, thinking that there is ONE answer, ONE guideline. The way I see it, if some guy wants to go to the FSU and hook up with someone who is too young for him, and he's operating on the emotional level of Spanky, then he deserves what's coming to him. I don't mean to pick on you Spanky, but you've got a little maturing and mind-expansion homework to do.

[TexasBoar]

No bubble to burst, Momus.  

It's all good.  You keep dating women your own age or a bit younger if you feel that's prudent and disciplined.  I'll keep dating women your age and younger too . . . here, or wherever else all this takes me.

~Boar

[Momus]

Some people come off as such self-righteous boneheads, thinking that there is ONE answer, ONE guideline.

This is true -- and I should admit that, while I offered my opinion, I don't really care about any specific case or any specific stranger on the Internet. I've read enough of the trainwreck stories here and elsewhere to realize that no one who really needs it is going to listen to reason anyway, even if I did care.

I admire the guys here who offer sound advice and good counsel month after month and year after year to the same kinds of guys with the same kinds of stories, as if by pounding their heads against the wall they might eventually knock loose a brick. I guess I admire their concern for others but also question their sanity. I guess I'm more of a prick -- I'll just pop some popcorn and enjoy the show. 

[mspanky]

  Sohay,

  I don't think you understand where I'm coming from at all. I aim to be realistic not shallow. I look at these forums and most of these guys want young and ultra attractive. Then you see the guys and think perhaps they should take a good-look at themselves to see if they can offer the same.Water seeks it's own level.

   The irony is how some can throw out what they want in a woman in terms of youth and attractiveness.. But the second I point out some women may have the same expectations, people are not happy to hear that. it's like women are not like that so quit saying that. WE DON"T WANT TO HEAR IT! THEY ARE NOT SHALLOW LIKE US. Well, we really hope not!They can dish it out, but can't  take it!!Too funny!!!!Some even calling me shallow. Why is that?

    They are basing the woman's value on skin deep. But can't take it if a woman does the same..Read these post.  Shallow men attract shallow women.  Women are human, many have their own preferences as men do. But to convince yourself otherwise is denial.

   . As someone said, if you can't even attract young ugly women in the U.S. what makes you think a FW who is less likely to understand your language and culture will find you attractive??

    Talking about real love here is a joke sometimes. Many guys who should know better would pass by a normal, sweet FW who would give them true love,devotion and happiness because she does'nt fit into what they want "skin deep".Who cares about her heart.they want young, they want beautiful, they want the trophy everyone will envy because they deserve it! It's no "accident" most guys end up with very young and pretty wives. I see shallow.

    I say be realistic. That trophy you want so badly may not be so satisfied to have average after awhile. Most guys won't settle for average and sweet, but expect the women to and be happy settling with it,when they themselves cannot.

    Reality is everyone wants the best deal they can get in their present environment,women included. If you BOTh cannot look at each other across the table and think in your heart this is the best person God created for you then it is not a good relationship. It has to be mutual..  Most guys going too far beyond their league or pushing the age issue envelope will find that out after she has spent a few years in this country.

[Turboguy]

     Men and women need to be physically attracted to a partner. I can imagine in 10 years the woman being 38-45 and husband now 70 ,with no muscle tone, sagging wrinkled skin,thickening waistline,losing hair and health issues can't be a very sexually stimulating sight for these women. Especially when men 10-15 years younger are seeking their attention.There are a lot of younger men who are digging older women .

Of course it is also possible that at 70 the guy will still be decent looking and the gal now 38-45 could have added 150 pounds and look a mess.   I know a lot of gals, American ones of course who were very hot at 25 and beach balls at 35.    If the future were precictable there could be no lotteries or no Las Vegas.

[Turboguy]

Making a decent marriage relationship is hard enough without making life totally impossible by being stupid.  IIRC, T/G has been through this with another young woman before, I really thought he had learned something the last time around.  Apparently not.

T/G, I hold no malice towards you, trust me on this, but I do have reservations about your basic intelligence, you have done some strange things and don't seem to learn your lessons very well.  In short, I don't think you are doing a really smart thing in pursuing a 27 y.o. girl who is approximately half your age.  She's a nice girl, but she isn't in your league. 

I see nothing but trouble in this.

Thanks jb.  I am glad you think she is a nice girl.  I agree with you.

[viking]

When I am 90 I am going to get a 25YO hottie who wants nothing more than money and a green card. I will have the time of my life for 3 years, happily die in bed with a grin on my face, having satisfied my ultimate fantasy, and to heck with everyone.  

[Son of Clyde]

I think that on a certain level, all of us are 16 inside pretty much forever.  

On the other hand, during my early 20's, an older mentor told me that "at 30, things just get more clear." I had no idea, then, what he meant by that, but at 30 I sure did: I wasn't entirely sure what I wanted, but I darn sure knew what I didn't want, and my whole life did a much-needed 180 as a result.

A famous line, "It is amazing how much my parent's learned while I was away at college". It is normal that at a certain age reality kicks in. I enjoyed being 18 but would never want to be there again.

[DKMM]

What is this jb?

TG is a stand up guy.  This girl from Barnaul is the lucky one here.  She's fortunate to find a guy like him.  He's the kind of guy that would probably lay his life down for a girl like her.

To me, you are calling out the girl here - not T/G - and insulting her judgement.    Its not like she doesn't realize what she's doing.  But you are entitled to your opinion...

At the very least, its a helluva life insurance policy!