do we really change with age?

[Jumper]

Clyde-actually i'm not sure i understand your post.
do we really change with age?

I know i'm certainly not the same person i was in my youth..
heck even  5 years ago (when i met my wife)
Hopefully i've grown a bit inside at least ..
 and hope to contiunue to.
Hey shes a great cook and i hopefully havnt grown outside much
although she wants me to gain weight! drink  beer, eat more , etc
(how lucky am i ? eh?)

anyway i would be pretty amazed if my outlook on life isnt different in another 5 years.In fact i'd be fairly dissappointed in myself if I dint learn anything in 5 years time?  much less 10 or 20?

in 1976 i was in gradeschool..so yeah i've changed a bit
but can't type any better
seriuously though. i've had fairly life changing events every 5 years or so.. at that pace life seems to go by very VERY rapidly.
yes like you i still feel like the same 25 yo..(and am still in as good of shape)
but honestly if a really think about it, i'm nothing like that person was, and have a completely different outlook on so many things in life..hopefully a bit more well rounded as a person.and a better one for the experiences that those years bring?

I think that it's fairly obviuos we do change , even if we feel realtively the same at heart?
 both mentally emotionally and physically?
maybe we change more physically than in other ways,
 but i'd bet that that is something very individualistic?

I guess i dont follow how that ties in with the age range of our spouses?
 because THAT issue has far more variables than wether we are *young at heart* or on the same plane in life with our significant others?

two very compatable people,, all the same interests , likes, life goals, and values-
who truely respect, admire ,and love each other..
will be compatable despite virtually any age difference?

That said:
 they WILL face difficulties if married long term if they have a large age gap.
the reality is if they have decades seperating them.. then there are a lot of issues and challenges  they will have to face,
 that a couple with a small age gap will not.

no amount of being the same person "inside" as we age,
 will help with issues like children, declining health, and ineveitably in most cases, one passing on decades before the other.  
and thats just  a few.

are these issues insurmountable? no.
 but to ignore thier existence is strange since they are quite real.
Time doesnt wait around for anyone, wether they work out,rock out,  or not..lol

hey i still go to a rock concert if i want .. i still race bikes when i want.. if i wasnt married i'd still date young chicks if i wanted..LOL!

but  the reality is in time , i will change , my intereasts will change, my prioirities will change, my taste in women would change , just like they have all thru life?

In marriages both people will quite likely change!
a lot!

The goal and hopes when  married is that you grow together instead of apart?
In my opinion, that takes work, respect and admiration for each other as individuals  ,  and understanding.
it takes a conciuos effort to remain growing on the same path.it doesnt just *happen*

 My belief is its a fliud transition.. of two people walking thru life together-
it isnt both people fixiated ,and in love, with some fixed "persona" that they then  love forver and ever..
because thier tastes will grow and change as well?

 a false hope in the fact you might remain exactly the same, or remain young (at heart) might not ultimately be endearing to the person you are married to anyway?
Lifes not so predictable!

(at least not in my experience)

All i can say is if it ended tomorow,
i'd smile and say "WOW what a ride!"
 and thats the way i want to keep it.

but ultimaterly i doubt i'd chase some RW 30 years younger to keep things exciting.. there seems to be plenty of similarly aged smokinhotkovas to keep things lively enough for most guys?

[Turboguy]

Thanks DKMM,

Thank you also AJ, nice post.   The part I liked best was when you said

but ultimaterly i doubt i'd chase some RW 30 years younger to keep things exciting.. there seems to be plenty of similarly aged smokinhotkovas to keep things lively enough for most guys?

If it was just a matter of keeping things exciting or lively, I would agree with you.   That has nothing to do with anything in my case.

I think in my case we are together in spite of our age difference more than because of it.   It does not matter to me if she is 27, 37, or 47.  What matters to me is what we have found together and it is far more emotional and intelectual than it is physical.   We have the kind of relationship people dream of finding. 

I read all these reasons that it should not work but I can't say I see much relevance.   The important issues of the age difference are things we have talked about and accept.   Yes, we both know we would likely never celebrate our 75th wedding anniversary together.   We like what we have and we hope it lasts as long as possible.  When it ends we believe we will have shared something special and wonderful.   Many people never find that at all.  We both think we are lucky.

[jb]

It does not matter to me if she is 27, 37, or 47.

 

 

[vwrw]

   I aim to be realistic not shallow. I look at these forums and most of these guys want young and ultra attractive. Then you see the guys and think perhaps they should take a good-look at themselves to see if they can offer the same.Water seeks it's own level.

   The irony is how some can throw out what they want in a woman in terms of youth and attractiveness.. But the second I point out some women may have the same expectations, people are not happy to hear that. it's like women are not like that so quit saying that. WE DON"T WANT TO HEAR IT! THEY ARE NOT SHALLOW LIKE US. Well, we really hope not!They can dish it out, but can't  take it!!Too funny!!!!Some even calling me shallow. Why is that?

    They are basing the woman's value on skin deep. But can't take it if a woman does the same..Read these post.  Shallow men attract shallow women.  Women are human, many have their own preferences as men do. But to convince yourself otherwise is denial.

   . As someone said, if you can't even attract young ugly women in the U.S. what makes you think a FW who is less likely to understand your language and culture will find you attractive??

    Talking about real love here is a joke sometimes. Many guys who should know better would pass by a normal, sweet FW who would give them true love,devotion and happiness because she does'nt fit into what they want "skin deep".Who cares about her heart.they want young, they want beautiful, they want the trophy everyone will envy because they deserve it! It's no "accident" most guys end up with very young and pretty wives. I see shallow.

    I say be realistic. That trophy you want so badly may not be so satisfied to have average after awhile. Most guys won't settle for average and sweet, but expect the women to and be happy settling with it,when they themselves cannot.

    Reality is everyone wants the best deal they can get in their present environment,women included. If you BOTh cannot look at each other across the table and think in your heart this is the best person God created for you then it is not a good relationship. It has to be mutual..  Most guys going too far beyond their league or pushing the age issue envelope will find that out after she has spent a few years in this country.

I also look at these forums but I do not think that most of guys want young and ultra attractive. I think most of guys more want to be loving than to be loved (although it is also important for them). They more want to be conquering than to be conquered. And they are looking for a woman who is able to cause their desires to love her and to conquer her. Guys, it is great thing most of you are acting so!!! I very well remember how T/G looked at me; how his eyes were lighting up; I saw his huge desire to conquer me. And I enjoyed that. Am I a trophy for T/G to cause somebody's envy? NO, I am NOT. Because of when man has found the woman who is able to cause his desires to love her and to conquer her, he forgets there are others people in the world. And he does not care either the people envy him or laugh at him.
I do not think guys should take a good-look at themselves to see if they can offer the same. Because of as I have said women (I do not keep in my mind here the women which men usually name "girls" because the "women- girls" have brains as children have) usually pay less attention to guy's appearance.
Guys, thank you for you change a woman’s life to be a fairy tale by your strong attraction to the woman!!!!

[Turboguy]

Good post VWRW.  I do think that someone who chooses a woman just because she is beautiful or sexy is looking for problems.   I think too that someone who chooses a woman because she is young or because he wants to make himself feel important by having a beautiful wife on his arm is also looking for problems. 

Anyone meeting and wanting to marry a Russian woman is going to create some controversy.   We all know that.  As VWRW said,  you can't worry about what others think. I am not saying you should not listen to the well meaning advice of others but in the end you must follow your own heart.   Yes, some people will laugh at you and others will envy you.  Some may even laugh at you on the outside and envy you on the inside.

Still when you marry any woman, you are marrying a person.   You are not marrying long legs or a sexy look.  You need to have a connection and a deep feeling for the person inside that body, not just a desire for the body.   You need common goals and a real happines when you are together.

[jb]

I'm not exactly sure what vwrw and T/G meant to say in response to mspanky's post, which BTW, I thought was very a good analysis of the mindset of most 60'sh men pursuing 20's something young women, but I recognize rationalization when I see it.

Therefore I suggest T/G and vwrw take their romantic thoughts off board.  To continue to make justifications here for another May - December relationship will only draw more unwanted opinions.

[Turboguy]

jb, I agree mspanky's post was excellent. 

Personally I think to whole age differnce thing has been talked to death on this board and others.  It is something that is going to happen for whatever reason and little that is said is going to change it. 

I don't think VWRW or I have any interest in justifying anything to anyone.   I think both VWRW and I feel that some of the discussions that have come up have been very benefical for us.   I see other comments that are very good and very logical and others that I agree with far less.  It will suit me just fine if the whole topic dries up. 

[BC]

It will suit me just fine if the whole topic dries up. 

Yeah.. probably a good idea. Was thinking this TR was pretty good but looks like you'd be best off starting a new chapter when you're good and ready.  Hate for it to turn into another one of those monster threads and dilute the good stuff.

I certainly would enjoy reading a new chapter sometime in the future. 

I guess Dan or one of the mods could gracefully lock this one down if you asked.

[viking]

TG

I agree with BC. Time to go private. Give us a buzz when something happens.

[BC]

Ooops.... I was confusing this thread with Turbo's TR..... 

Carry on folks!

Sorry Clyde.

[Michelangelo]

T/G, I hold no malice towards you, trust me on this, but I do have reservations about your basic intelligence, you have done some strange things and don't seem to learn your lessons very well.  In short, I don't think you are doing a really smart thing in pursuing a 27 y.o. girl who is approximately half your age.  She's a nice girl, but she isn't in your league. 

Looks like this has turned into an age difference debate.  Too bad...

It's a personal decision, and posts of condemnation are simply off base.  Look at the evidence...we have folks here at RWD with good marriages that have 20+ differences in age.

Yes, the greater the age difference the greater the risk.  Some suggest a formula, such as half your age plus 7 years.  Meaning a 50 year old man could marry a girl as young as 32. 18 years difference. But even 10 years difference is a lot. 

But that is a black and white perspective, and we are talking about living, breathing human beings here.

In terms of the attacks on TG (bad taste), we know he dated and looked at girls in their 30s and 40s leading up to meeting vwrw.  So to say he was looking for a young girl is also off base.  He was looking for the right girl, and he may have found her.  Let them have time. Time will tell.

Time will also tell with the married guys here who have wives 10 or more years younger.  But let's be positive and celebrate the success of the married guys here at RWD and believe it can happen for others, too.

[Son of Clyde]

I was hoping my thread would show that age should not be an issue if the guy is young at heart and in good shape. Guys who think and look old should be searching for a 50+ woman. Age is a relative thing and if two people are happy together it should only be a factor to them. JB, I have seen pictures of you and your wife and I would say there is probably a 10+ year age difference. Or maybe your hair turned white at a very young age?

[vwrw]

Okay, JB and BC, I understood the mistake I have done. It is first time I participate any forum. Thank you for you indicated me as I should not do.

[Albert]

Guys who think and look old should be searching for a 50+ woman.

These are two very different concepts.  A third would be how the guy acts (age wise) or is able to act in mental sense and a fourth how the guy acts in physical sense.

Another aspect of the age thing is how women are affected by menopause.  Although some contend that the woman may become more interested in sex because she no longer fears pregnancy, etc., I think this is the exception.  The vast majority of women have a big decrease in an already low interest in sex (compared to most men) during and after menopause.

So to tell a guy in his 50s and 60s and beyond that he should match up with women his age is not very appealing if the guy is still interested in a very active sex life.  Such a man really has no choice but to be with women who are in their late 40s to early 50s or younger.

Even where a woman in or past menopause is interested in sex, it just ain't the same.  They and you can use all the liquid enhancers you want, but it just ain't the same as the natural stuff.  Been there, done that.

[Albert]

Okay, JB and BC, I understood the mistake I have done. It is first time I participate any forum. Thank you for you indicated me as I should not do.

- - - - -

VWRW, don't become discouraged by things that people say here.  No one will ever suggest that you shouldn't post.  Some are just feeling a little weird seeing discussions from two parties who are attached.  And it gets to be a matter of which thread you are posting in.

Maybe if you and Turbo would just do normal posts on topics not closely related to your own situations, people would stop their criticisms.  :-))

[TexasBoar]

.  The vast majority of women have a big decrease in an already low interest in sex (compared to most men) during and after menopause.

So to tell a guy in his 50s and 60s and beyond that he should match up with women his age is not very appealing if the guy is still interested in a very active sex life. 

Trust Albert to take it right down to brass tacks. 

But he's absolutely right. That's what I've been saying all along---that it's not about chronological age, but about compatible lifestyles. Having energy levels, interests, and sex drives in common is a lot more important than meeting someone else's external criteria for how much age difference is "appropriate."

Of course large age differences create their own peculiar set of complications. Who didn't know that?  But EVERY relationship is complicated in its own unique way . . . there are plenty of more important "deal-breakers" to worry about, IMHO.  As I've said before, I tend to date young here, and if I choose to pursue this, I'm certainly not going halfway around the world for a woman I wouldn't be interested in if she lived next door!

~Boar

[KenC]

do we really change with age?

Yes, Clyde we do, but not always in the same way.  Your music preferences may stay the same and your personality may stay similar but if you don't continue to grow and learn, well, you may as well be dead.  Would the young Clyde ever consider traveling to the other side of the world to meet a woman?

This thread reminds me of a discussion I once had with my son.  His mother and I were in the midst of an ugly divorce and it was rather difficult on him at 14.  I was trying to break the news to him that I would soon be dating other women and was attempting to be as logical as possible.  I told him that he and I were not much different.  I asked him to think about how often he thought about the girls at school and how attracted to them he was.  I told him that I was the very same with regard to women, only I didn't think about it every 30 seconds like him, only about every two minutes.

I was a VERY serious young man.  I think too serious actually.  I married at 21 and worked my tail off to become successful.  I put in the time and effort it took to raise two great kids and tried my best to be a great husband and father.  A lot of my personal development took second place to my family responsibilities.  I traded the European vacations I wanted to take for football and cheerleading practices and walking craft fairs with the wife.  Marriage is, afterall, a series of compromises, isn't it?

After my divorce was a huge personal growth period for me.  Sure I re-tooled my dating skills that had been dormant for 20 something years, but I also did all the things I always wanted to do and never did.  The self confidence that I always displayed in my professional life now spilled over to my personal.  I learned more about KenC in the first few years of being divorced than I did in the 20+ of being married.
do we really change with age?
Hell, yes we do!  I am a much better man for the changes too.  I know my value now and I also know what I deserve from life and I will never ever settle for less.  Besides, now I will never have to listen to another Barbara Striesand album and I found out I really do like jazz!
KenC

[jb]

Yes,,, Son of Clyde, sadly I did most of my apparent aging at about 35  ,,, and there is a 13 year age difference here.

vwrw;

As I've already stated above, all of these posts above seem like justification of a decision you guys have already made.  If you are seeking affirmation for what you are about to do, mine is the wrong name to bring up.  I will tell you what I think, not what I think you want to hear.  However, you should not view what I write as criticism of you personally.  Actually I have a rather high regard for Russian women.

from Michaelangelo;

In terms of the attacks on TG (bad taste), we know he dated and looked at girls in their 30s and 40s leading up to meeting vwrw.  So to say he was looking for a young girl is also off base.

Yes, I read his comments regarding the women he met while on the Jack Bragg social tour.  I also noted that he wrote disparagingly about the women he met, even giving them funny nicknames, i.e., "The Nose" and a few others I won't bother or want to go back and look up.  I knew then that T/G wasn't really interested in following up with the "older" chicks.  He couldn't wait to get off on the trip to Burnal to meet yet another younger woman.  I'm sorry, you members of the cheer leaders squad have your opinion of the facts, I have mine.

I see Albert and TexasBoar have joined in the fray with this, and as per usual with Albert, sex raises it's ugly head as being his sole reason for marriage.  Boar, I had thought you were different, but that's as you wish.  Let me be very clear about how I feel about that.  Sex is not a reason to get married.  Sex is the icing on the cake, that part that allows two loving people share intimacy and express something much deeper.  After only a few days with vwrw Turbo is talking about a deep and abiding love, to which I say BS~!  No one can know true love in 5 days, they can only see something desirable and wish for it.  The definition of this is lust, not love.

[Son of Clyde]

The young Clyde dated in the US but he found that although AW always said they just wanted a nice guy they usually seemed to want a nice "dangerous" guy". By dangerous I mean maybe a biker type over a studious type. If it was not this it was usually related to a guy's income. Now I make a decent salary but in the past my life outside of the workplace was more important to me. Most women want security and that comes with some wealth. A FSU woman is no different in this respect however she may want someone who is not necessarily wealthy but is able to meet her needs. A decent home, automobile, clothing. The basic needs.
The young Clyde aged but he is still idealistic, still likes the 60's, still has a sense of humor, still wants to travel.

[Bruno]

No one can know true love in 5 days, they can only see something desirable and wish for it.

 

[TexasBoar]

JB . . . you say:

Boar, I had thought you were different, but that's as you wish.  Let me be very clear about how I feel about that.  Sex is not a reason to get married.  Sex is the icing on the cake

In response, apparently, to my having said:

Having energy levels, interests, and sex drives in common is a lot more important than meeting someone else's external criteria for how much age difference is "appropriate."

Rather than question the reading comprehension of my elders, I'll simply add that for me, lacking entirely any church-derived guilt in such matters, sex is simply a natural part of life, and an important part of any romantic relationship, though---AS I POSTED, BOTH HERE AND ELSEWHERE---not the only part. 

Also, may I just say that, having buried my own much beloved father already, years ago, I'm not in the market for another one, thank you.

~Boar

[jb]

Nope, it was in response to:

Trust Albert to take it right down to brass tacks. 
But he's absolutely right.

Albert is never right in his attitudes expressed here, everything he writes screams of being a sexual predator and viewing RW solely as sex objects.  I was sorry to see you align yourself in that direction.

Also, may I just say that, having buried my own much beloved father already, years ago, I'm not in the market for another one, thank you.

Wasn't applying for the job.

[Gator]

JB, when you say sex is not a reason to get married, you are revealing your age (and your wisdom).  

Clyde, please do not take offense about the young Clyde, but when you say "dangerous", did you mean "exciting"?  Women love excitement.  My American wife placed her many suitors in two categories:  those that had a good job (but they were boring) and those that excited her (but did not work - she refused to qualify being a starting pitcher for the Phillies as a job).  I came along - I had a good job and made her life interesting.  It was good for 25 years until we grew apart (that and a mental condition).

[TexasBoar]

Nope, it was in response to:

Quote
Trust Albert to take it right down to brass tacks. 
But he's absolutely right.

Albert is never right in his attitudes expressed here, everything he writes screams of being a sexual predator and viewing RW solely as sex objects.  I was sorry to see you align yourself in that direction.

Ordinarily, I would agree with you about Albert, and recall a recent thread in which I took exception to his sex tourism.  Guess you missed that one.

However, tainted as the source may be, I maintain that the observation is, in fact, absolutely correct: men maintain an interest in sexual activity much longer than women do, generally speaking.  As with all things, there are exceptions, and it goes without saying that men who know what they're doing can keep their partners interested much longer.  But I would consider it disingenous at best to maintain the fiction that sexuality was NOT part of the equation for men seeking RW . . . and there's no shortage of threads right here to back me up on that.

Wasn't applying for the job.

Edited to state: Upon reflection, I retract my objection.  You had no way of knowing how deeply it offends me when someone takes what I interpret as a "fatherly" tone with me.

~Boar

[Louie]

[  Sex is not a reason to get married.  Sex is the icing on the cake, that part that allows two loving people share intimacy and express something much deeper.  After only a few days with vwrw Turbo is talking about a deep and abiding love, to which I say BS~!  No one can know true love in 5 days, they can only see something desirable and wish for it.  The definition of this is lust, not love.
[/quote]


             I wholeheartedly agree with this statement, after the initial attraction, infatuation, comes the long steady relationship, friendship, growing together, with sex as a bonus, in my opinion after a few years, I would rather have a great friendship and understanding of each other!