Finding sincere Ukrainian girls.....

[Thor]

Yesterday I spoke to 2 of my Norwegian friends here in Kharkov. They first came to Kharkov back in 2001. Now Arne is married to Natalie from Kharkov and my friend Remi is not married yet, but have several girlfriends here in Kharkov:)).  My friends told me that when they came here in 2001 everything was much more easy when it came to meeting girls. Then it was very easy to find girls, also very young girls. Today is total different story. When my friends where at at disco or cafe back in 2001 and spoke English or Norwegian, peoples came and site down at they're table because they where really curios about speaking to forreign peoples. Today it is nothing like that. Everything is totally changed. My experience is that there is very difficult to find sincere girls today here in Ukraine. It seems to me that the girls rather will stay in Ukraine than move to a forreign country. A Canadian friend of mine here in Kharkov told me that he went to the Baltic's in year 2000. He dated the most beautiful girls there (tall, blond and blue eyes), when he went back 2 years ago it was totally different. Dating the beautiful had became very hard.  Dating and finding "average" looking girls is not so hard, but to find beautiful girls are not easy, at least not sincere beautiful girls. I know that many of you guys have been around in Russia and Ukraine for many years, it would be very interesting to hear your commend on this topic........

[BillyB]

Maybe the ladies in Ukraine have become more spoiled from all the attention they get and can be more selective. Maybe the ladies 5 years ago who met many crazy foreign men are now turned off and spread the word to their younger sisters that foreign men are not all that great. Maybe Ukraine is more prosporous and more women feel like they can afford to raise a family there now. Maybe we could combine all those factors which add to the current situation.

[Michelangelo]

My experience is that there is very difficult to find sincere girls today here in Ukraine. It seems to me that the girls rather will stay in Ukraine than move to a forreign country.

What you say about girls wanting to stay in Ukraine is true.    They are happy with their country and would rather have their family there.   It was very hard to get my girl to leave and come to the US, and it's still not settled.  She would rather us live in Ukraine.

I think you have the meaning twisted with your statement it's "very difficult to find sincere girls today here in Ukraine."  That is being sincere when they are not interested in foreign men.

Having said all this, there are exceptions.  I'm just making a generalization.

But the times "they are a changing..."

[IAmZon]

One of the more interesting topics I have ran into!

My only experience with Eastern European / Russian women are with several that was already in the US as students.  But it is very current experience.  And, I did not plan and strategize as I am doing now:)

I found the pickins GREAT at just one university in New York City.  Hell, gotta be a lot better in foreign countries!

What Thor says does not bother me much.  I think the playing field needs to be level for the women and the men ... that is just fair.  A relationship that is created in such a great social/economic imbalance seems to smack of great compromise. 

That just ain't right.

Good for the girls! 

[DKMM]

That was my impression as well, when I met up with some expats in St. Pete they told me the same thing, but not quite to that extent.

Of course, I'm talking about Russia and not the Ukraine.  Ukraine might very well be part of the EU in 10 years.  That would change everything for them... just like it used to be very easy to date gorgeous women in Poland and the Czech in the mid 90s.

Goldman Sachs thinks Russia's standard of living will be as high or higher than western europe by mid century.  A lot would need to happen though, like controlling inflation and a decent tax system that allows people to develop their businesses and increase people’s confidence that the law will be applied fairly.

My take is the longer you wait on this, the harder it will become... but that will be a slow moving trend.

[Thor]

Soon I am marrying my girl here in Kharkov. This is not a poor girl that look for a forreign man because of her economical situation. She has a very nice flat only 50 meters away from prospeckt Lenina in the very center of Kharkov. She has a good Job and she earns her own money, She is very proud of this. When I meet her I asked her why she wanted to have a forreign man, she told me that most of all she wanted to marry a Ukrainian man and raise a family her in Ukraine. But the problem is that Ukr man are lazy, drink to much, smoke, are unhealthy, have several girlfriends and so on....She had several Ukr boyfriends but all the same, unfaithful or did not want to have a family.  Rena really loves Ukraine and if she could choose, she would most of all stay here.

One of the reasons that Ukr girl no are harder to find is of course the economical situation is improving and also that the western culture are influencing the Ukr society. Girls settel down when they are in the mid 2 s or later, just like in the west. Before I came here I read that only girls do the household work in Ukraine, but Rena tells me a a=nother story. She tells me that now also men must do work at home. Maybe are the new generation of Ukr girls (18-28) not so interested in older Western men. They don't remember Soviet union so much and have looked at western TV programs since they where in the school. They now want they want. And yes it is good that the girls don't pick western men because of they're desire to leave Ukraine, but because of love.

[Gator]

In Ukraine there also seems to be a wave of national pride.  Orange Revolution, seeing their country represented in the World Cup, etc. 

It is good that women are not so desperate to leave.  Now, you will have to win her heart with your charm, looks, potential and sincerity.  Is that not better than just flashing your passport.

DKMM wrote, Goldman Sachs thinks Russia's standard of living will be as high or higher than western europe by mid century.  A lot would need to happen though, like controlling inflation and a decent tax system that allows people to develop their businesses and increase people’s confidence that the law will be applied fairly.

Do not forget corruption.  It inhibits free enterprise, and at the level allegedly practiced in Russia, "inhibit" is an understatement:

From the Moscow Times, Government officials are pocketing bribes of more than $240 billion per year, an amount comparable to the state’s entire revenues, a senior prosecutor ...

[David1963]

I would suspect what people here are saying is true, the country is more prosporous than in the past.  If you are looking for a lady who is interested in moving you probably won't find many of them in the bars and disco's, try an agency.

[Bruce]

I thought trying to find a sincere girl in Ukraine was extremely difficult in 2001.  Lots of sharks in those waters back then and probably more now.  I always urge single guys to look in Russia, though shell games are increasing more there as well.   

[Thor]

I would suspect what people here are saying is true, the country is more prosporous than in the past.  If you are looking for a lady who is interested in moving you probably won't find many of them in the bars and disco's, try an agency.

Hmmm...David I truly belive that agencys are just scam, total scam. Today I spoke with a Canadian man that had been in Dneper 2 weeks ago. He went to the Cindy agency and meet 6 girls there. He said that all 6 girls where not serious girls, and he thougth that he was scammed by Cindy agency. He then went to Kharkov and a agency here. The same story again. He paid 30 dollars for a meeting with a girl, 30 DOLLARS!! It is crazy, and the girls he meet in Kharkov was also professional daters..Now he runs newspapers ads here in Kharkov and we will soon see if he is more sucesfull now. I used the same and meet a LOT of sincere girls. This is the best way to meet sincere girls in Ukraine today.

[groovlstk]

I'll second that, Thor.

It's not always easy to determine if a girl is simply willing to relocate overseas or if that in itself is her prime motivation in seeking a mate. Agencies are right for some men, but if my younger brother suddenly became interested in Russian women I'd urge him to use other means to arrange meetings.

[Michelangelo]

Today I spoke with a Canadian man that had been in Dneper 2 weeks ago. He went to the Cindy agency and meet 6 girls there. He said that all 6 girls where not serious girls, and he thougth that he was scammed by Cindy agency.

I'll have to disagree, Thor, and make another point as well.

First, I used Cindy, and encountered many good and serious girls through them.

But I also met some guys there who were using Cindy to meet girls, and they were the pits! Don't know about the Canadian man you spoke with, but I'd suspect him more than the agency.

It's the girls right to say NO to bad guys, just as we will walk away from a girl we don't like.

Agencies are one tool that the serious man can use in meeting girls from the FSU.

[Michelangelo]

I always urge single guys to look in Russia, though shell games are increasing more there as well.   

I'll have to disagree, Bruce.  I dated girls from both Russia and Ukraine, and found the girls from Ukraine to be more wholesome and sincere. 

The poll that is running on the other thread shows equal success-- 31 guys found girls in Ukraine and 30 found their partner in Russia. The careful guy can succeed in either country.

Long term, I think the fact that Ukraine is a developing demoracy is another plus. They will have good leaders and bad leaders (the USA still does).  But looks like Russia has a leader for life...and one who suppresses the press and democracy.  I simply don't trust Mr. Putin.

[jb]

It is also possible the woman had a preconcieved idea about where she might like to immigrate, and Canada wasn't on the list.  I know my wife says she fell in love with me because I'm from Texas, she had seen a lot of old American western movies as a child and was kinky for cowboys.  A lot of it is the luck of the draw, but girls/women have their own ideas about where they are willing to go.

[Gator]

I think "sincere" is the wrong term.  "Fastidious" or "picky" is apt.  It is good that women are not as "easy" these days.  I will say again, a man will have to win a woman's heart with his charm, looks, potential and sincerity.  When he does, he has true love.

There is the case of chasing the creme de la creme.  These women are spoiled.  They were spoiled by men 4 years ago and are still being spoiled today.  So if a man is chasing a woman who is holding out for Donald Trump, and he is rejected, he should reexamine what he wants in a woman (and also kiss the ground in gratitude that she did reject him).

Grovlstk wrote about agencies, It's not always easy to determine if a girl is simply willing to relocate overseas or if that in itself is her prime motivation in seeking a mate.

If she is willing - good!

If it is her primary motivation - bad!

Agencies are right for some men, but if my younger brother suddenly became interested in Russian women I'd urge him to use other means to arrange meetings.

I hope he has a lot of time to spend on this escapade.  The women you meet outside agencies at best never have thought about moving but would discuss the possibility if they loved the man.  Just like dating someone in your own country.

Let us not be too quick judging Cindy Agency as a scam operation.  I met three fine looking women from there and two let me know that they wanted to spend a lot of time with me.  The third (the oldest), I suppose she had seen better men plus our meeting was rushed.   I also met three men in their offices.  There is a woman for them somewhere, but not the  they were pursuing in Dnepro.

$30 is above average I guess.  I paid $15 at Cindy.  Whether $30 or 15, it is not much to meet someone.  One could spend far more in correspondence with the same result.

[IAmZon]

Gator,

Creme ladies are spoiled ... Creme de la Creme Ladies are just very picky because they can be.  And thus it always was, and thus it always shall be.  Birds and the Bees 101.

There is outer beauty and inner beauty.  We are all seduces by the outer.  But I have had a long lession that I am trying to keep at the forefront of my mind.  Of my last 14 years, I  have spent 13 with an AW who could easily be on of the most beautiful woman on ANY dating site: American, European, or Russian. More than that she is the kind of person that enters the room and brings it to life, a celebrity quality.

But her inner world!!!  Bi-polar, Narcissistic; Crazy feeling of entitlement; Self-centered - and that was on a good day.  But for years I said: she meant well ... she is really "nice" once you get to know her ... blah, blah, blah 

I hope I keep these lessons!  I hope you guys benefit from this short testament.  After a couple of months, looks wear off

[David1963]

Hmmm...David I truly belive that agencys are just scam, total scam. Today I spoke with a Canadian man that had been in Dneper 2 weeks ago. He went to the Cindy agency and meet 6 girls there. He said that all 6 girls where not serious girls, and he thougth that he was scammed by Cindy agency. He then went to Kharkov and a agency here. The same story again. He paid 30 dollars for a meeting with a girl, 30 DOLLARS!! It is crazy, and the girls he meet in Kharkov was also professional daters..Now he runs newspapers ads here in Kharkov and we will soon see if he is more sucesfull now. I used the same and meet a LOT of sincere girls. This is the best way to meet sincere girls in Ukraine today.

A lot depends on how realistic you are.  If you are in your 50's looking at 20yo women how do you think they will react?  You have to be realistic and halfway intelligent.  $30 is nothing in the whole scheme of things.

Good luck.

[groovlstk]

Let us not be too quick judging Cindy Agency as a scam operation.  I met three fine looking women from there and two let me know that they wanted to spend a lot of time with me.  The third (the oldest), I suppose she had seen better men plus our meeting was rushed.   I also met three men in their offices.  There is a woman for them somewhere, but not the  they were pursuing in Dnepro.

$30 is above average I guess.  I paid $15 at Cindy.  Whether $30 or 15, it is not much to meet someone.  One could spend far more in correspondence with the same result.

Like Michael and Gator, I met some very fine women through Cindy. Michael and I even dated a few of the same women and when we compared notes afterwards, our opinions were nearly identical. That said, Cindy's management is less than stellar in the honesty department, they do whatever they can to keep you using their translation services and have been known to fabricate letters. If you know the score going in and don't allow them to set your agenda, you will do just fine.

"Agencies are right for some men, but if my younger brother suddenly became interested in Russian women I'd urge him to use other means to arrange meetings."

I hope he has a lot of time to spend on this escapade.  The women you meet outside agencies at best never have thought about moving but would discuss the possibility if they loved the man.  Just like dating someone in your own country.

Actually, my statement was hypothetical. In reality, if my brother was set on looking for a mate in the FSU, I'd lock him in my basement and have him deprogrammed by one of those people who work to save cult members. About a year ago there was a poll by one of the married guys, asking other married guys if they'd recommend their male friends look for a mate in the FSU. Almost to a man, every married guy said they wouldn't. At the time I thought the posters were a bunch of sour grapes, jealously protecting what others covet. But after being chewed up and spit out, and reading other disaster stories, I'd have to agree that this is a terribly risky endeavor.

My fiancee will be here next month, and I know things could implode at any time. But having made it this far, I sometimes feel like a man who has just exited the maze with nothing more than some cuts and bruises, while behind me the screams of other men being torn to pieces by the Minotaur echo in the night.

[SANDRO43]

The poll that is running on the other thread shows equal success-- 31 guys found girls in Ukraine and 30 found their partner in Russia.

Considering Ukraine's smaller population, in comparison with European Russia (1/3 ?), it appears to be more "productive", at least as far as RWD members are concerned .

[av8or1]

But after being chewed up and spit out, and reading other disaster stories, I'd have to agree that this is a terribly risky endeavor.

While I won't argue the validity of your statement, I will add one point to it that many on RWD seem to either forget or disregard as being important, usually with a small wave of the hand.  That is that this whole notion of "disaster stories" and "being chewed up and spit out" isn't limited to women in the FSU, but is highly likely to occur with AW, which is one of the reasons why I began a search across the pond some years ago.  Long story short version is that you're just as likely, if not more so, to be eaten alive by an AW, so why not try with a foreign woman?

My fiancee will be here next month, and I know things could implode at any time. But having made it this far, I sometimes feel like a man who has just exited the maze with nothing more than some cuts and bruises, while behind me the screams of other men being torn to pieces by the Minotaur echo in the night.

Congratulations groovlstk, I hope to join ya someday.

Best to all,

Jerry

[Thor]

I think "sincere" is the wrong term.  "Fastidious" or "picky" is apt.  It is good that women are not as "easy" these days.  I will say again, a man will have to win a woman's heart with his charm, looks, potential and sincerity.  When he does, he has true love.

There is the case of chasing the creme de la creme.  These women are spoiled.  They were spoiled by men 4 years ago and are still being spoiled today.  So if a man is chasing a woman who is holding out for Donald Trump, and he is rejected, he should reexamine what he wants in a woman (and also kiss the ground in gratitude that she did reject him).

 

If she is willing - good!

If it is her primary motivation - bad!

I hope he has a lot of time to spend on this escapade.  The women you meet outside agencies at best never have thought about moving but would discuss the possibility if they loved the man.  Just like dating someone in your own country.

Let us not be too quick judging Cindy Agency as a scam operation.  I met three fine looking women from there and two let me know that they wanted to spend a lot of time with me.  The third (the oldest), I suppose she had seen better men plus our meeting was rushed.   I also met three men in their offices.  There is a woman for them somewhere, but not the  they were pursuing in Dnepro.

I dont want to jugde Cindy agency. But now days many agencys have to pay the girls to meet men...This because it is harder and harder to find girls than will stay with agencys. And as I have said before, the most beautiful girls at the agencys are just profesional daters. They get paid 10 dollars by the agency to meet 1 guy. Thesese girls often recives gifts, are taken to restaurangs, maybe taken to vacation by these men. For these girls this is just a jobb....They are not interested in getting serious involved with forreign men. These girls are also very importandt to the agencys because these girls are very good for business, so the agencys dont want this girls to get married to forreign men. So when you see very beautiful girls at agency web sites, just forget about them, you will just waist your money on these girls. If use a agency, look for average looking girls or girls that just have come to the agency. Agencys are just and also just business. They are not interested in "loosing" good girls to men. They just want to earn money, and who can blame them???

$30 is above average I guess.  I paid $15 at Cindy.  Whether $30 or 15, it is not much to meet someone.  One could spend far more in correspondence with the same result.

[Thor]

A lot depends on how realistic you are.  If you are in your 50's looking at 20yo women how do you think they will react?  You have to be realistic and halfway intelligent.  $30 is nothing in the whole scheme of things.

I agree David. It seems to me that many men comes to Ukraine and belive that it is very easy to find beautiful girls here. My Canadian friend belived that the girls would like him just because he was from Canada...Finding a good sincere girl in Ukraine is just hard work. If you are in your 50 s and wants a girl in her 20 s it is hard, unless you are very rich,m because money talks in Ukraine, also in this business. If you look shit, are old and hope to find a beautiful 20 year old girl, you will not succed. If you look good, are inteligent, polite, and a gentelmann, you will have all the chances in the world to find a beutiful and good girl. I think that Ukraine is more and more like the western world when it comes to dating. You have to look good and dress stylish. It is not enough to speak american anymore...

Good luck.

[Thor]

A lot depends on how realistic you are.  If you are in your 50's looking at 20yo women how do you think they will react?  You have to be realistic and halfway intelligent.  $30 is nothing in the whole scheme of things.

Good luck.

I agree David. It seems to me that many men comes to Ukraine and belive that it is very easy to find beautiful girls here. My Canadian friend belived that the girls would like him just because he was from Canada...Finding a good sincere girl in Ukraine is just hard work. If you are in your 50 s and wants a girl in her 20 s it is hard, unless you are very rich,m because money talks in Ukraine, also in this business. If you look *snip*, are old and hope to find a beautiful 20 year old girl, you will not succed. If you look good, are inteligent, polite, and a gentelmann, you will have all the chances in the world to find a beutiful and good girl. I think that Ukraine is more and more like the western world when it comes to dating. You have to look good and dress stylish. It is not enough to speak american anymore

[Thor]

I think "sincere" is the wrong term.  "Fastidious" or "picky" is apt.  It is good that women are not as "easy" these days.  I will say again, a man will have to win a woman's heart with his charm, looks, potential and sincerity.  When he does, he has true love.

There is the case of chasing the creme de la creme.  These women are spoiled.  They were spoiled by men 4 years ago and are still being spoiled today.  So if a man is chasing a woman who is holding out for Donald Trump, and he is rejected, he should reexamine what he wants in a woman (and also kiss the ground in gratitude that she did reject him).

 

If she is willing - good!

If it is her primary motivation - bad!

I hope he has a lot of time to spend on this escapade.  The women you meet outside agencies at best never have thought about moving but would discuss the possibility if they loved the man.  Just like dating someone in your own country.

Let us not be too quick judging Cindy Agency as a scam operation.  I met three fine looking women from there and two let me know that they wanted to spend a lot of time with me.  The third (the oldest), I suppose she had seen better men plus our meeting was rushed.   I also met three men in their offices.  There is a woman for them somewhere, but not the  they were pursuing in Dnepro.

$30 is above average I guess.  I paid $15 at Cindy.  Whether $30 or 15, it is not much to meet someone.  One could spend far more in correspondence with the same result.

I dont want to jugde Cindy agency. But now days many agencys have to pay the girls to meet men...This because it is harder and harder to find girls than will stay with agencys. And as I have said before, the most beautiful girls at the agencys are just profesional daters. They get paid 10 dollars by the agency to meet 1 guy. Thesese girls often recives gifts, are taken to restaurangs, maybe taken to vacation by these men. For these girls this is just a jobb....They are not interested in getting serious involved with forreign men. These girls are also very importandt to the agencys because these girls are very good for business, so the agencys dont want this girls to get married to forreign men. So when you see very beautiful girls at agency web sites, just forget about them, you will just waist your money on these girls. If use a agency, look for average looking girls or girls that just have come to the agency. Agencys are just and also just business. They are not interested in "loosing" good girls to men. They just want to earn money, and who can blame them???

[Jet]

About a year ago there was a poll by one of the married guys, asking other married guys if they'd recommend their male friends look for a mate in the FSU. Almost to a man, every married guy said they wouldn't. At the time I thought the posters were a bunch of sour grapes, jealously protecting what others covet.

Of the friends I have who are single, I just don't see any as having even *most* of the total package required for success. Every last one of them has commented repeatedly that they'd love to find a woman like Liliya but IMO none fully are prepared or equipped to make the dream a reality. You can teach a guy how to spot a scam, and how not to make a cultural faux-pa overseas, but you can't teach them patience, tolerance, sense of adventure, relationship skills, or personal financial responsibility. Those are things one needs to have going in. Not a matter of jealously protecting what others covet, but merely trying to protect friends from making a mistake that would have a long term negative impact on their lives (and possibly the lives of the women they meet).