Casanova would NOT do this

[IAmZon]

Really basic question: How does one not avoid appearing like a very desperate and  very socially challenged guy when the basic introduction is "Hi, I am travelling from far away to find a wife ... how about you?"  If that happended in the US, ladies would run - even the ugly ones:)

Really, think about it!  If people are the same everywhere (and I think they are), how can this social framework not sink all hopes of finding a GREAT lady, right off the bat? 

It is only a step above:  "Hi, my name is Ralph... I am with the reformed homosexual society ..."

[BillyB]

 How does one not avoid appearing like a very desperate and  very socially challenged guy when the basic introduction is "Hi, I am travelling from far away to find a wife ... how about you?" 

Never introduce yourself that way otherwise you portray yourself as desperate or socially challenged.

[Gator]

Nothing wrong with your letter except you did not finish it.  You need to add, “I understand that your life in Ukraine is so miserable that you are desperate enough to marry below yourself, even to a social misfit such as me.”

Surely I jest as do you.

Rule Number 1:  Write with confidence, talk with confidence, plan with confidence, act with confidence, etc.   FSUW, the same as all women, appreciate confidence in a man.  If there is nothing about you to make you feel confident, do not undertake this mission impossible.

[BC]

Why not be truthful...

"The RW 'bug' bit me. I think my chances are better in FSU to find a more intelligent, cultured, traditional, beautiful and likely younger wife than I could find here.  I'm willing to take my chances with huge expenses, a lot of time spent finding you, a lot of time waiting for immigration paperwork, language difficulties, cultural differences, emotional turmoil, adjustment issues and possibility of getting scammed.  You'll have to quit your job, sell your apartment and go through humiliating medical exams and consulate interviews not to mention getting leered at, hit on and possibly be referred to as my daughter or gold digger wherever we go together. You may end up not even liking it here, will have to wait a good while before visiting your friends and family again, have difficulty getting around, may not like my old habits and ultimately decide to go home.  If we can't get along in total bliss for three months or if you overindulge with shopping, open my mail, co-sign my bank accounts or ask for a set of major credit cards, I'll send you back..  By the way.. know what a prenup is?"

Think an intelligent and cultured woman will believe "There are no good women left in the USA."?

Right...

I'm being serious.

[IAmZon]

Gator - I KNOW that!

But the structure seems to already be built with these strong inferences baked in.  So, does this not extract a cost?

Is there any other possible way to create a social context outside of this absolute proposition?

[BC]

Is there any other possible way to create a social context outside of this absolute proposition?

In the context of actively searching for a marriage partner in FSU using third party assistance - quite impossible..

[Gator]

Assuming you are writing to women listed with an agency (third party assistance), the women are in the same boat as you - both looking outside of your past dating pool.  

So just write them the same lies as you would write an American woman from Yahoo personals.  If you are confident, you can write the truth about yourself.  Nothing wrong with that or to be ashamed of.  Just don't write crap such as there are no decent women in America and the RW are ideal for me.  The RW know better and think you are an idiot.  Become attracted to the individual woman, not to some ideal concept the agencies are hyping.

To change the subject somewhat, I detect that you are in your 30s and have never been married.   RW have this theory that something is wrong with any 35-yo man who has never been married.  Remember, different culture.  If this is your case and she writes you, "Why you no marry?", just say you lived with a woman for a long time and it did not work out due to career conflicts.  I would worry about stuff like that rather than this self-imposed image of a dating game for geeks and losers.  

From reading your many posts, you are an intelligent, enthusiastic man.  If you just go there, you will see, you will learn, and you will like.

[IAmZon]

Excellent comment Gator, as always.

I WILL remember the answer to the married question!  (In fact I have been with the same AW for a decade - never married her, though.  She had kids from another marriage.  We never had any of our own.  I am committed to a soft landing.  We have significant business assets together ... we all must get along).

I liked your outlook of just looking outside my natural dating pool.  THAT SOUNDS ALOT BETTER. even a little romantic.

[SANDRO43]

Just don't write crap such as there are no decent women in America and the RW are ideal for me.  The RW know better and think you are an idiot.

Yep, Rivardco, you might hear them intone this little song .

[BillyB]

Nice song Sandro.

Rivcardo, Do lots of reading here. Figure out who's making sense and who's wise and hopefully it rubs off on you. You might get to the point of your life where you aren't chasing anymore but you are the one that's being chased if you're an attractive package for women. I'm 36 years old and a lot of my friends from high school agree that we have an easier time attracting women now than when we were 18. A buddy of mine, 37 YO, just got into a relationship with a good looking 23 year old woman. She's got the hots for him but ten years ago I don't think he'd have the maturity or confidence to catch a woman like her. Another buddy of mine. 37 YO, said he had a young 20 something woman flirt with him at work and it took some strong will power on his behalf to stay faithful to his wife.

Rivcardo, re-evaluate yourself. Are you a likable person? Do you have habits that aren't normal? What do people at work think about you? If you're not an attractive package for a woman now, no matter the amount of deception and act you put on, she will eventually figure you out. Be natural but make sure you're normal first.

[Kvinna]

Assuming you are writing to women listed with an agency (third party assistance), the women are in the same boat as you - both looking outside of your past dating pool.  

Hej, hej, hej, guys
you have forgotten something:

Under Imbra, dating agencies that specialize in matching American men with women overseas must first obtain information about a man's criminal record and marital history, relay it to the woman and then get her consent before disclosing her contact information.

so before you start to write your first epistolary chef-d'oeuvre, she will know about you a lot of things

[Kuna]

I liked your outlook of just looking outside my natural dating pool.  THAT SOUNDS ALOT BETTER. even a little romantic.

HAHAHAHA... you crack me up!

Rivardco, I've thought about the same question myself, and I've considered the "stigma" attached to western men with Russian and Ukrainian wives...  BUT, then I remember my recent dating past and my right to find a partner in any corner of my life that I'm comfortable with.

The world is small, and anyone who doesn't "approve" can probably be aligned with those that scorned Europeans who migrated after WWII.  Their opinion isn't important!

When it comes to explaining my "interest" to the girls...  The question "Why are you looking to UA?" has come up, but it's far from the focal point of my early correspondence with them. 

So far the most common question I've received, and the one that's generated the most detailed early correspondence, is "Why is your name Ukrainian and why do you live in Australia?"

Can I suggest you change your name to "Rivardenko"...  and quickly learn some Ukrainian recipes so you can reminisce about the foods you mother cooked when you were a child...   

(In fact, I have a bit of an issue because 2 girls are both insisting they help me research my family history in Kiev, and I'm not sure how it'll look to the Archives people when I turn up with different girls on different days asking the same questions)   ???

I think the girls generally understand we're looking to broaden our horizons and one in particular has gone to pains to explain that she's not "defective", and she is as surprised as anyone that she's ended up "on one of those sites"... but life has lead her there.

For us newbies, they'll know when we meet them if we're weird or strange...  and hopefully we'll find someone who shows genuine compatibility with us.

Onwards and upwards I say!

Best of luck!

Kuna

[jb]

The question "Why are you looking to UA?" has come up, but it's far from the focal point of my early correspondence with them.

You know, a little honesty would not go amiss here.  I didn't have to answer a question like this because I didn't marry an agency girl, but my wife did ask lots of similar questions after we met, referring to the cross cultural nature of our dating.   In your shoes I might say something about being a child of the Cold War, the USSR was always a big mystery as I grew up, learning about Russians is a big lifelong dream and adventure, or a friend married a FSUW and she is so good and sweet my curiosity was aroused, or I received an e-mail advertisement which sparked my interest,,, whatever it was that piqued your interest and perked up your ears.  Upon your arrival in ******(wherever), your own eyes will give you all the reasons you need for an explanation to any rational human being about why you are pursuing a FSU woman.

They are simply the best option a man has on this planet.  If you can't run with that, then don't go any farther.

[Gator]

So we now have another issue.   As if being diffident is not enough, your friends will wonder why you married someone from the Third World. 

You both seem like intelligent men and I doubt you would go for an airhead regardless if her legs go to her shoulders.  My friends always responded “Russian!?” in a demeaning tone.  Then they met her.  End of stigma.  In a short time everyone is chatting away, with my younger bachelor friends asking if she has a sister.

There are many highly educated women in the FSU who are proud of their intelligence.  I speak not of just the obvious medical doctors.  I met one woman who had three degrees and six years of calculus.  No SOH however; she did not even grant me a smile when I asked if she kept failing calculus.   She worked for the Soviet space program and calculated trajectories of nuclear warhead missiles aimed at me.  If there is a stigma, it is perhaps Kuna’s being Australian (I do not jest - one Kiev woman who had been there called it a “big village”).

Kuna, I told you that the UW would quickly become interested in your quest and would help you.  You will need it as you enter the convoluted world of FSU record keeping.  I imagine that this will be a time travel experience to rude and indifferent Soviet bureaucracy. 

And Rivardco, I did not say “natural” dating pool.  To elaborate, in my case, I never mentioned why I was there and no woman asked directly.  Some would politely ask, “Now that you have met Russian girls, what do you think about us?”  Many of these women have more class than you might expect based on your experiences in your “natural” dating pool.  You may find that you are stepping up in categories other than looks.

[jb]

You may find that you are stepping up in categories other than looks.

That's very true if a man is dating a Moscow woman or one from St.Pete, or Kiev, and if the woman is 30+years old.  Under the previous system, education was paid for by the State.  The best and brightest were encouraged to take advanced degrees.  You will meet many Russians who have mind blowing credentials.  Unfortunately, the old system is defunct and the younger generation is having to pay for college and university.  You might not find so many women with 3 advanced degrees under 30 y.o.

I mentioned in another thread that when my wife went up to Baltimore for her little mini-reunion, five of her former classmates were in the US, and a sixth is living in London.  This is out of a graduating class of 22, so almost a quarter of the best and brightest from that year have fled Moscow, taking those wonderful educations with them.  If one takes a look at the teachers rosters from almost any major American University today you are apt to see some very Russian sounding names, especially in the Math and Science departments.  One such man is here in Corpus Christi working in our little University: http://math.tamucc.edu/faculty/Sadovski/index.html , personally I think he's a bit over sold on himself, but he does have some excellent credentials. 

No man should ever assume that just because he's from a First World country he will be able to trade up based on the color of his passport. 

[Kuna]

If there is a stigma, it is perhaps Kuna’s being Australian (I do not jest - one Kiev woman who had been there called it a “big village”).

Kuna, I told you that the UW would quickly become interested in your quest and would help you.  You will need it as you enter the convoluted world of FSU record keeping.  I imagine that this will be a time travel experience to rude and indifferent Soviet bureaucracy. 

   It IS a big village... Especially the city i live in.  We have 1.6 million people but it's so relaxed that my local shopkeeper turned me into a "friend" within my first half dozen visits and started giving me "mates rates" on my bread and milk.  God knows how he makes a living!  ... and I'm not even in the suburbs, I'm in the city centre!

Gator,  you're definitely right about some of them wanting to help me with the family history thing.  One was stunned that her former boss and I share the same surname and she's insisting that she has to introduce me to him when I get there. As I've also mentioned, two of them are insisting that they help me with the government authorities...  I just hope I get different bureaucrats on different days!   

Kuna

[IAmZon]

Very insightful remarks and PM were generated by this question.  Thank you all.

BC - Great Brief (a bit blunt) on the truth of things.

BillyB - I have fully evaluated myself.  I'm as normal as the day is long.  Most people who know me suggest I have too much confidence, rather than not enough.

JB and Gator - appreciate your insight.  Your remarks create a fabric that enables the reader to get a sense of things - important to newbies.

One of the ladies I have cooresponded with gave me the impression that her mother dissapproved of their involvement in meeting foreign men.  I jokingly said that I could make her mother fall in love with me as a son in law as I could win this young ladies heart.  She said she did not think so:)

(Perhaps she knew something I did not know... which was the inspiration for this tread)

[BillyB]

Rivardco,

If you can catch that beautiful, classy, elegant, intelligent, and charming lady, you won't have to worry about a social stigma. Guys will be envious asking if she has a sister. You may have a lot of confidence but your thought of asking the question that was in the first post will turn a lot of women off to the point no amount of confidence will overcome bad communication.

I've had a few friends wonder why I went looking abroad. They of course have been educated by television when it comes to foreign relationships. After telling them a little about my fiancee and what it is about her that calmed all my fears, the same that they have, they became interested and opened up. One of my married friends said if he ever had to do it all over again, he'd go Japanese.

[IAmZon]

I understand BillyB - it is a very BIG would, and getting smaller all the time

[FunIndieBloke]

In my correspondence with some FSU women, sometimes I am asked why am I looking for a wife so far away from me.  I usually emphasise the positive, saying that I hear good things about FSU women (like on these forums!) and leave it at that.  I mention that I have dated women here in the past, so its mainly good things that draw me over there.  (I guess I could say things like how I work in a male dominated environment - IT consulting in the financial services market - so its hard to meet women.  Or I shouldn't say that?)  Do you guys think that's a good answer?  What would you say?

I've asked back why are they looking for a husband far away, and they usually reply that western men care more about the wife and familly.  If they start going off about all Russian men are vodka drunks, then I start thinking that she's a scammer!

[Turboguy]

I think I would not worry about the male dominated working environment and talk more about the things you are already saying about the woman there being better.   Since you are saying it to a woman there it is then more of a compliment and true anyway.   I am sure it would have a more positive reception.   Working in an IT environment there are still American singles sites and discos.  Most of us go there because we can find a better woman. 

I would not be that quick to rule out a woman who talks about alcholism.  The odds are that any woman who was married to a problem drinker would site that as the reason.

[FunIndieBloke]

I would not be that quick to rule out a woman who talks about alcholism.  The odds are that any woman who was married to a problem drinker would site that as the reason.

That is true, but overly mentioning the stereotypical drunks is one sign of a scammer.  But you have to take everything in context.