Promiscuity...

[Kuna]

THIS IS RIVARDCO ASKING A QUESTION FROM KUNA'S LOG IN...

OK, gents, something I've been thinking about...

Do you think the level of promiscuity in FSU is similar to the west?

I frequently hear comments about FSU men being unfaithful etc... does that suggest that "generally" the society is promiscuous?

I know all girls are different, yet they're all the same... BUT I wonder if the common trends from the west are similar, or totally different than the "dating" happening in FSU countries.

My experience at home is that sex is pretty much freely available, but you'll "get more" if the girl feels like she's "trading up".

If it's similar to the west, do you think it would be more common in big cities rather than small towns?

Would it be age related (like the Generation Y "sex without commitment" here)?

Is it a phase some might go through? (like some in the west, promiscuous when young, more "balanced" with age).

Is it used as an ego boost by women after broken relationships? (as it's commonly used here)

I know I'm asking for ridiculous generalisations but it's something I haven't seen discussed yet.

Why do I want to know?  Sex is a natural part of all of our lives and I'm interested to understand a FSU woman's view of sex within, and outside of marriage.

Are my previous experiences with other European girls (Dutch, German, English, Scottish) indicative of the attitudes in FSU?

Thanks, and sorry if the question offends anyone.

Rivardco....

OK OK, It WAS Kuna afterall, but I took advantage of Rivardco's good sense of humour to raise a (possibly) controversial issue.    

[PeeWee]

I think that you have over thought this. Christian America is the only country that abides by ridgid moral values. Everyone else is the same. If you live in Christian America then what may seem like promiscuity to you is normal behavior to anyone else.

Peewee

[BC]

To be quite brutal, I think many men have the misconception that women are somehow less horny than men.  As jb often says, learn how to read the signs.

Sure, women may seem a bit choosier than men but that's about the only difference.

In general, women seem to peak sexually somewhere between 35 and 45 but I don't think this is biological.. by then most have learned that they practially have to jump your bones out of frustration because men can't read their subtle signs.

This is where I believe the 'not so nice guys' have an edge.

In other words don't confuse promiscuity with actions of women overcoming inhibitions of men.

[Kuna]

To be quite brutal, I think many men have the misconception that women are somehow less horny than men.  As jb often says, learn how to read the signs.

Sure, women may seem a bit choosier than men but that's about the only difference.

In general, women seem to peak sexually somewhere between 35 and 45 but I don't think this is biological.. by then most have learned that they practially have to jump your bones out of frustration because men can't read their subtle signs.

This is where I believe the 'not so nice guys' have an edge.

BC,

Thanks for the comments...  My questions aren't posed because I'm concerned about not getting "intimacy" while in Ukr...  If anything I'll be going there to avoid it UNLESS I meet someone spectacular (on the inside).

I understand what your saying but I guess I should elaborate a little. My questions were more about the following types of situations.

Firstly to set the scene... I'm 38 and the girls I've been dating at home range from 20 (yeah I know, slap me!) to 32.  My selection criteria for girls I want to meet in Ukraine is 27-30(ish).

To put it simply, I've added a question that I ask girls during the "getting to know you" phase at home.  Which question?

"Do you have a current boyfriend?"  Sometimes I won't ask something like that for a month or so... I mean, shouldn't I assume she's single?

I'm just surprised at how many answer with something like, "Yeah, but I like spending time with you." 

Ummmm... "NOOOOOOO!  That's not the point!!!"

Its not just the younger ones (Though I've come to expect that of them and that's why I try not to date "young ones" anymore...) It is just becoming more common here for people to not take their relationships very seriously, or maybe they just don't want a "real" relationship.

I know not everyone is like that but it's something that really hasn't been uncommon over the past two years years or so...   I've found that average looking girls here are looking for a bf,  beautiful girls here are looking to trade up.

Don't get me wrong.,.. I'm no prude, but I'm ready to settle down and I wouldn't trust a girl if our relationship started out while she's got a live-in bf."

I'm guessing from the first couple of replies that it might be a trend everywhere...  I think the answer to my question is, "Test the waters and see what happens".

Cheers,

Kuna

[jb]

Kuna,

I know lots of Russian couples.  I grant you, they are not run of the mill Russians, most are exceptional in their educations and their chosen fields, i.e., academicians, symphony musicians, artists and artisans, and one or two in high places in Russian government, etc., these people are not unhappy in their marriages.   They live a good life.

I think the areas you will find people straying from the marriage bed is in those settings where a husband comes home intoxicated every night and ignores his wife, wife beating is chronic in some social strata, and verbal abuse abounds.  We have discussed this ad infinitum in other threads, but how faithful your Russian wife is will prolly depend entirely on you.  Treat her well and she will be a good wife, treat her badly and you've got a mess on your hands.  Also, most Russian women have had it up their eyeballs with maltreatment, they vow to never put up with that nonsense again, (quoting my own wife here), a Russian woman who has only a few days or weeks involved with the foreign man and makes the move to a foreign husband, doesn't feel she has much invested and will be quick to cut her losses and move on to greener pastures. 

Just an observation...

[Kuna]

Kuna,

I know lots of Russian couples.  I grant you, they are not run of the mill Russians, most are exceptional in their educations and their chosen fields, i.e., academicians, symphony musicians, artists and artisans, and one or two in high places in Russian government, etc., these people are not unhappy in their marriages.   They live a good life.

I think the areas you will find people straying from the marriage bed is in those settings where a husband comes home intoxicated every night and ignores his wife, wife beating is chronic in some social strata, and verbal abuse abounds.  We have discussed this ad infinitum in other threads, but how faithful your Russian wife is will prolly depend entirely on you.  Treat her well and she will be a good wife, treat her badly and you've got a mess on your hands.  Also, most Russian women have had it up their eyeballs with maltreatment, they vow to never put up with that nonsense again, (quoting my own wife here), a Russian woman who has only a few days or weeks involved with the foreign man and to make the move to a foreign husband, doesn't feel she has much invested and will be quick to cut her losses and move on to greener pastures. 

Just an observation...

Well explained and well understood...

Thanks jb

[Gator]

Kuna,

I feel that most of these RW have a boyfriend of some degree or another, but none are really serious about him (certainly not living with him). 

Regarding attitudes towards sex, it is summarized by what one UW told me.  She spoke little English, and afterwards while snuggling in bed, she said with the biggest smile, “I like sex”.  It was healthy and honest without psychological hangups.

You will know what to do.  I suggest that you not wait until the third day if you really like a woman.  The “friends first” will impress them because most are not used to that.  RW for sure expect men to take the lead, yet they will give signals.  If you are sharing a flat and she showers in the evening, brace yourself.

[jb]

I was not implying Russian women do not have a healthy attitude about sex.  The best explanation I've read and seen is that Russians are more Oriental in their sexual viewpoint than Occidental.   They believe fully that sex is basically good for you.  Russian doctors will even recommend sex as a tension release..  To not have sex would be unhealthy.  I suspect that most single FSU women you might meet will have, for lack of a better term for it, a fcuk buddy if not a full blown local Russian boyfriend.  She may not consider him to be a serious marriage prospect, but she keeps him around when the need arises.

In the context of the question, I was confining my comments to be within the bounds of a good and stable marriage.

[William3rd]

I think I would leave off the question about a current boyfriend. I doubt if many of the women would be asking you if you are seeing someone else although they may ask if you are married.

I think you are better served if you just allow your questions to fit in where the conversation flows and see if there is a connection.

[IAmZon]

Excellent post Kuna!  I am honored you thought of me with such a question. 

It is the birds and the bees thing, again.  I think men and women are generally the same.  Its those magical connections that are so rare. 

So, I would suggest to keep your mind as open as chemically possible!!!  People can surprise you.

You know a couple of years ago ...  I went to a strip club in New York City (I did not even really want to go, I just sort of dropped in.)  I met this 24 your old very, very, ver, sexy French girl.  We talked and talked.  The connection was very natural and "proper" (even though, you know!).  When I got up to leave she asked me for my number.  I said no, give me yours.  SHE DID?!?!  And then I wrestled with my self for 24 hours trying NOT to call her.  I failed! 

And I am happy I did.  As it turned out she was new to the US, had three jobs and was a full time student.  She now has a master's degree and works in a competitive industry in NYC.  She was on of the greatest lovers I ever had. And after several nights, our relationship grew naturally to "friends".  We still talk almost every other week!  I think very highly of her (despite where I met her).  She is reliable, hard working, and honest ... oh, I forgot; sexy and smart.  This is not to say that you should marry a professional dancer BTW.

Do this: Make a list of what you want - EXACTLY.  Make a list of what you do NOT want - EXACTLY.  Then post it; give it to a friend; or send it to me.  Then, when you think you have found a women who you are seriously considering examine how many "allowances" you are granting for this person, and why.

I understand where you are, Kuna.  But, when you get there, run with the dogs for a couple of days:) I think the worst thing that could happen in this adventure is to meet Ms. Right the minute you step off the plane.

[Kuna]

Thank Gator and jb... Will too! 

There's good info there...

I think I would leave off the question about a current boyfriend. I doubt if many of the women would be asking you if you are seeing someone else although they may ask if you are married.

I think you are better served if you just allow your questions to fit in where the conversation flows and see if there is a connection.

Will,

I wouldn't ask a girl during this trip the "new" question because I wouldn't want her to ask me.     It's none of my business UNLESS it's evolving into a relationship.

My question was more about whether "free love outside of the primary relationship" was occurring in FSU like it's becoming common here.  I've dated several girls here who have bf's but want some fun on the side... (I wasn't aware initially)

I just believe that if they're in a RELATIONSHIP they should honour the relationship.  This excludes a girl who is looking for a relationship but has something casual available on the side when she wants/needs it.

One of my female friends and I have discussed this and she reckons that I have a bad habit of making "good girls turn naughty". I don't believe that because if it wasn't me it'd be someone else.

Maybe it's my approach, persona, behaviour that leads me to girls that don't share my own moral stance,  but I think a girl in a relationship should stick to the relationship, or move on if it's not fulfilling.

OK, enough from me... 

Kuna

[Kuna]

Do this: Make a list of what you want - EXACTLY.  Make a list of what you do NOT want - EXACTLY.  Then post it; give it to a friend; or send it to me.  Then, when you think you have found a women who you are seriously considering examine how many "allowances" you are granting for this person, and why.

I understand where you are, Kuna.  But, when you get there, run with the dogs for a couple of days:) I think the worst thing that could happen in this adventure is to meet Ms. Right the minute you step off the plane.

Rivardco, 

Got my list... I might send it to you one day.

As for meeting Ms Right straight off the plane...  I think that's unlikely... I'm looking for a 'complex' girl and I think you need to get past the initial "thrill" before you can really understand the person.

Cheers!

Kuna

[IAmZon]

As long as YOU mentioned it ...

Past promiscuity - are Russian ladies more or less the same in manners and what is acceptable, sexually- very willing to try new things ... not too kinky ... energetic but only missionary? 

Times change.  Cultures Change.  What may be OK someplace is taboo in another.  For instance, It is "cool" (widely acceptable) for AW to experiment with AW nowadays.  That was NOT the case when I was in my 20s - I had to work hard to find that type of action:)

In the Russia/ Ukraine culture today, past sex - is the standard conservative; or more liberal? 

I know we are getting very close to a most delicate line in protocol. So, if there are any brave enough to elaborate ... just write as an academic.

[groovlstk]

I suggest picking up a copy of The Exile: Sex, Drugs, and Libel in the New Russia, you can order a copy through RWD's storefront.

It will probably shock the hell out of you, but forewarned is forearmed.

[BillyB]

Just evaluate each woman on an individual level. If your gal is not home every friday and Saturday nights when you call, it's possible she's out at the disco or banging boyfriend #3. If her interest in you diminishes, her interest may be focused somewhere else.

Me and my fiancee had a heart to heart talk about fidelity. It's important to her and she assured me she knows herself and once she commits to a man, she is his for the rest of their lives. She has taken steps to show me she's commited to me such as giving me the password to her e-mail address. The thing I liked most about her is that she was the one that brought up the subject of fidelity and has taken steps first to prove herself to me. There are FSU women that believe in fidelity no matter how much a doctor says they need sex to stay healthy if their man is away for a while.

Contact enough women, there's bound to be a few keepers out of the lot. Be smart, choose carefully.

[Son of Clyde]

Well I hate to brag but I have had sex with one woman 150 times or was that 150 women one time? I am so used to Albert's posts I have forgotten.

[Gator]

Rivardco,

I am beginning to worry about you.  Albert is looking for members to a new club he is starting.  You can PM him directly.

Please explain how a fantasy about doing a 3-way helps you in finding a woman to share your life?  And if you asked a FSUW seriously, she would likely reply "I like men, not women."

Yet there are some playful Ukrainian women.  Regardless of what this photo may suggest, I am innocent.  Nevertheless, this photo could incriminate me so it will be removed shortly.  Leer away:

PHOTO DELETED

[Jumper]

LOL bucky!


ricardo-

Eastern Europeans , and in fact most of the world, are more open or straight forward about all things sexual.

this doesnt mean there is any huge differences in such  a fundamental human need and behaviour ? or any real differences
in the commitmet to another person in a marriage, or seriuos relationship?


it just means most cultures dont hide behind somewhat silly pretences that westerners *often* do.

[IAmZon]

Thank you Gator for your concern - and the photograph.  I was just trying to be descriptive!  Albert and I would have gotten along fine - when I was in my mid 20s.  That was 15 years ago.

My posts have gone a little more on the fringe, because I have noticed valuable and new information being given spawned by such topics.  Things that I would not even know to ask. 

I, like most men try to be a gentleman - but sometimes, despite myself, am an ass.

[Kuna]

PHOTO DELETED

DAMN,  I missed the photo!

The time differences really ARE frustrating!

Kuna

[William3rd]

Cosmopolitan magazine did a survey about a year or so ago.

Russian women surveyed said - 50% are having sex on the first night and 70% within the first week of dating.

Different view of sexuality there.

[prince_alfie]

Cosmopolitan magazine did a survey about a year or so ago.

Russian women surveyed said - 50% are having sex on the first night and 70% within the first week of dating.

Different view of sexuality there.

And the corresponding stats in America? I would be interested in the factual comparison.

[BillyB]

I wonder if Cosmopolitan magazine only polled select ladies that read their magazine? 50% of RW having sex on the first night sounds a little high. We've got sexual studs here that can't even achieve that kind of success.

Alfie, where have you been? I thought you might have had a change of heart with the RW thing. Are you making any plans to visit anyone yet? What's your story?

[William3rd]

You guys will have to ask Cosmopolitan about that. . . . .

[prince_alfie]

Alfie, where have you been? I thought you might have had a change of heart with the RW thing. Are you making any plans to visit anyone yet? What's your story?

I've been in NYC for the past few weeks working on some projects and helping out my sister ... Yep, to Kiev early next year. Gotta wait for that passport thing to work out. Looks like my friend Eric is busy courting some lady there. Figure to hit up on the bandwagon.

My story has been rather slow. Working on it... I guess being picky and all that. But I have Jooky's help and advice for sure!