Is she interested in me or my wallet? - First date with a RW

[FunIndieBloke]

Hi everyone,

I thought I'd relate a story that happened to me, and share my thoughts with everyone and get their opinions.  I met this RW through Elenasmodels.com, and started corresponding.  I liked the fact that we had some common interests (arts & culture) and she lived not too far away from me in Paris, France.  (She's an art student there).  A few things stuck out in my mind that in her profile, she specifically wanted to meet a man from an ENGLISH SPEAKING COUNTRY.  (Yes, they were typed in all caps in her profile)  I kind of suspected something might be dodgy, even more after she sent me a link to another website (russianwoman-marriageagency.com) that seemed like a fly by night job, and just listed her email and her pics.  After she gave me her phone number and speaking with her, she seemed like a real person, she didn't ask me to send her money and wanted to meet.  Since I live so close, it was easy for me to book an Eurostar train to Paris for the weekend, and meet up with her, and if she was a scammer asking me for money, I could easily blow her off and enjoy the weekend doing other stuff.

So my train got into Paris late Friday, she asked me to call her right when I got there, so I called and we both agreed to meet up tomorrow since it was too late.  So I spent all day and night Saturday and all day Sunday with her.  Rather than going into a boring detailed description of our time, I'll just sum everything up here: she was definitely coming on strong, we were holding hands shortly after first meeting and kissing by the the end of Saturday evening.  (We did not sleep together during that weekend)  The reason why I kind of felt that she was after me for my wallet was that she was picking expensive (At least 50 Euros per person, some times 80-90 Euros per person restaurants) places to eat, taking taxis everywhere (although nothing wrong with that, women hate walking a lot, especially wearing heels) and choosing expensive drinks (champagne) when we were at bars.  I was expected to pay for everything, including her cigarettes.  I did not ask her to pay for some of the small things, since I thought it was ungentlemanly on the first date (And with western women, if they offer to pay half, that's a sign that she is not romantically interested).  Plus, she was making out with me (kissing, couldn't keep her hands off me) every chance she got, which admittedly caused me to forget about my wallet.

This being my first experience with a RW, I was used to western women who usually offer to pay for little things, like maybe one taxi ride, or one round of drinks, and their own cigarettes.  However, I basically footed the entire bill for the whole weekend.  We spent Sunday having lunch, and spend the rest of the day at a bar having drinks and making out then I had to take the train back home.  She sent me several texts and emails after I got back to London, asking when is the next time I could see her again.  After talking with my my best friends here (though I must point out they don't have any experiences with RWs either) they immediately said she was looking for a sugar daddy, and she's only interested in your wallet.  I decided to use a litmus test and ask her to come visit me in London, I would arrange the visa and everything and take care of accommodation.  She replied that she couldn't get a tourist visa, but I asked the British Consulate in Paris the procedure, and I even filled out some of the forms for her and emailed her this.  This happened about two months ago, and I haven't heard from her since.

Although my friends here thought she was only interested in my wallet, I heard on another website that this is typical for Russian women, and that they expect their men to lavish them and to pay for everything, and so forth.  Should I have handled this situation differently?  Is she looking for a husband or sugar daddy?  I have heard a lot about scammers in the FSU women dating thing, so I have come into this with a very wary view of a possible scammer or gold digger.  But I could be wrong.

So I would like to get the opinion of the guys here on this forum, who know more about RWs.  I am *not* cheap, and I have no problem spending money on my special woman.  However, I want to be sure she likes me for me, and not my credit card.  Is there a litmus test you can do with a woman from the FSU to see if she really likes you for who you are?  In this aspect, are they very different from western women?

I'm planning on making a trip to Kiev next year to see this other woman I met, so any other advise will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

[Gator]

Funman,

Good question!  I am not the best man to answer as I have been criticized in the past for spending too much (when I thought I was just being me and at sometimes too cheap).

A few points from my perspective, albeit I am possibly too generous.

1.   The Paris woman is an art student.  She probably has little extra money.
2.   Regarding “sugar daddy”, is there a large difference in age and beauty between her and your normal dates in London?  If not, do not worry.  And evidently you failed to meet her standards for Sugar Daddy, if that were her mission, considering that she never came to London.
3.   A RW in Paris is not the same as a RW in Russia.
4.   In Russia, some women will want to party “big time” and go to fine places, eat fine food, drink exotic cocktails, etc.  They are having fun.  If this is you, and you can tell that she really likes you, why not have a good time.  If this is not you, this is the wrong woman for you.  This should have been discovered in the correspondence phase.  Caution:  some of these fun loving women are not into you and are what we call "Professional Daters".  You will have to depend upon your experience, what is said and not said, etc. to distinguish between the two.  Sex is a good indicator if she has not asked for expensive gifts.
5.   Some of the Nr. 4 women take it to the next level and take you to shops.  This is where every man needs to draw a line.  Do not buy her anything costing more than $25 until near the end of your meeting.   The only exception, her Birthday.  If she really likes you and you like her, the two of you will have made love by then (and not just mechanical sex).  Then I think you should buy her something really nice.  An interpreter told me about one woman who showed at the Moscow airport without a coat to meet her "penlover" - an idiotic American.  The next day she had her lambskin coat, the day after that Italian boots, then some French perfume - and he never slept with her and never will.  I am sure that RW bragged about her deeds and soon started writing other Americans.
6.   Some women have heard that Americans are “cheap” and that Americans like women who are frugal.  In an attempt to influence you favorably, they will behave as if they are frugal and not take you to expensive places, when actually they would enjoy more lavish activities.
7.   Some women are indeed frugal, especially women from smaller cities or women living a more constrained lifestyle.   
8.   There is no comprehensive litmus test.  As you can see it depends upon you and the woman.  Just take the lead and be yourself.  Do not let her dictate what you do.

[groovlstk]

However, I want to be sure she likes me for me, and not my credit card.  Is there a litmus test you can do with a woman from the FSU to see if she really likes you for who you are?  In this aspect, are they very different from western women?
Thanks!

Well it's too late to know the truth about the expat in Paris, but the fact that she hasn't bothered contacting you makes it pretty self-evident.

As for a litmus test... well, it's simple in theory but harder in practice: Act like a man, choose the restaurants yourself, insist on taking the metro. If she will only dine in 5-star restaurants, bid her adieu.

In my experience, it took me 3-4 trips until I felt comfortable being decisive and acting with confidence. It's not so easy at first, surrounded by people whom you can't understand (many of whom think of you as a potential meal ticket), signs in Cyrillic that you can't decipher, etc. Try not to let yourself be led around like a balloon.

[Mir]

Wellcome to the world of FSU women.
Though there are always exceptions, FSU girls do expect their men to pay for everything.
I have dated a few and have always paid. And as for expensive restaurants, hotels wouldn’t you like to enjoy the finer things of life when out on a holiday with a beautiful Russian girl?
So if you want her to visit you in UK send an invite for visa is not enough. You need to make arrangements for her to travel to you. So you book her train tickets with your credit card etc.
If you start contact with a girl in FSU and want her to go on a nice holiday with you to Turkey, expect to pay everything for her including costs of her travel, visa, hotel, all food, excursions etc. Don’t ever expect her to offer buying a drink. She might not even have decent shoes for the travel or even a suitcase to pack her clothes so you may have to fork out for this.
Maybe you would understand this if you know how much money these FSU girls have to survive.
So if you believe in women’s lib then I would advise to leave the FSU scene and concentrate on the UK/European girls.

[BC]

Quite difficult to tell...

Didn't go on a buying binge
Sure, likes nice dinners.. In paris 50 to 100 EUR is within good dining norm.
Champagne in Paris.. why not?
Outside the tourist areas I'd take a taxi too.
Maybe in the meantime found another interesting prospect.
-who knows...

Sounds like a great date in Paris, but missing the proverbial fireworks.. I guess being turned down after making all the right 'moves' was at least a bit disappointing for her. If you were my brother I'd smack you upside the head for that one.

OTOH They say first impressions are the best so maybe her desired lifestyle was above your preferences or she was only interested in nice dates for the time being.

 

[Turboguy]

I used to have a lot of people come to visit me on business.   One of the problems when you didn't know the person was if they would feel comfortable in the Hyatt or the Motel 6.   There are lots who really would feel insulted not to go first class and I have had people ask to sleep on my couch to keep their expenses down.   I even had one guy rent a room in a Holiday in to make a few phone calls after which we left.  Damm high priced phone booth.

I can see that it could be the same for a RW.   She could think you are someone who likes the best.  (Sometimes we may create that impression even if we don't mean to.)   It is also possible that all her meals were on a budget and she wanted to have a little dose of the finer life.    I think your experience could indicate a pro-dater or high maintenance woman or just someone who thought they were making good choices in restaurants.  

Personally I have also seen a lot of women who tried to make sure dinners were a good value and I like that much better myself.

[FunIndieBloke]

1.   The Paris woman is an art student.  She probably has little extra money.
2.   Regarding “sugar daddy”, is there a large difference in age and beauty between her and your normal dates in London?  If not, do not worry.  And evidently you failed to meet her standards for Sugar Daddy, if that were her mission, considering that she never came to London.
3.   A RW in Paris is not the same as a RW in Russia.
4.   In Russia, some women will want to party “big time” and go to fine places, eat fine food, drink exotic cocktails, etc.  They are having fun.  If this is you, and you can tell that she really likes you, why not have a good time.  If this is not you, this is the wrong woman for you.

Hi Gator,

Regarding point 1 - She does have money, as I briefly noticed when she opened her purse to get her cigarettes, there was a large amount of cash in there, and she closed her purse quickly after getting her stuff.

Point 2 - She's 19 and I'm 32, so there is more of an age difference than the women I've dated here, but not a whole lot more.  The youngest women I've dated here recently was like 23.

Point 4 - I do like having fun, and I did have a good time with her.  However, there was a feeling in the back of my mind that kind of wondered if I was being used, or not. 

It seems that this was a learning experience for me, so live and learn.  If I can be sure that she was interested in me for me, I would not hesitate to go out with her again, and pay for everything!  However, she sent me emails, called once or twice, and sent me texts shortly after we met, and because I was busy and also had another vacation planned, I mentioned that I could not visit her in the next few months but I was happy to help her come to London for a short break.  She hasn't contacted me since then, so maybe she was looking for a guy with money.

[FunIndieBloke]

She might not even have decent shoes for the travel or even a suitcase to pack her clothes so you may have to fork out for this.
Maybe you would understand this if you know how much money these FSU girls have to survive.

Hi Mir, that would be true if I knew she was dirt poor, but she's not.  I briefly noticed that she has plenty of money in her purse (probably around 400 Euros cash) and she lives in a nice part of town in central Paris.  Maybe she does come from a posh background, and is used to fancy nights out....

[FunIndieBloke]

As for a litmus test... well, it's simple in theory but harder in practice: Act like a man, choose the restaurants yourself, insist on taking the metro. If she will only dine in 5-star restaurants, bid her adieu.

Try not to let yourself be led around like a balloon.

I think that's the best way to go forward from this!  Make some choices myself, and see how she is willing to work with me.  It is usually harder in a city where I don't live, where I usually let the local make the choices, but that's why I need to do my homework before going, especially when going to Kiev or other FSU cities.

Thanks

[Gator]

Funbloke,

19!  That is young.  Not the age difference, but the number 19.

Art students do not have money and live in good neighborhoods.  Two alternatives:  either she comes from a wealthy New Russian family who are humoring her request to study art or she is an escort.  If the latter, why you?  Working girls want to have fun too, you are a prospective long-term client, or .... (who knows). 

Whatever, she does not want to live the life of the proletariat.  It is best to forget her.  There are plenty of men in Paris who would not flinch at a nice restaurant and champagne nor a short holiday at a fine hotel in a warm garden spot of the world.

You are a young man and learning about the world.  before you go much farther into the RW quest, you need to think about the type of woman you seek.  Look at the scammer webpages and study the photos of the young women on the blacklists.  Avoid this type.  Reduce your risks - look for educated, beautiful women - avoid those with provocative poses and bikinis. 

Also, when you go to Kiev, unless it is for 2-3 days only, meet more than one woman.  And chat them up on the telephone before you make final plans.

[Stirlitz]

Neither. I mean neither you nor your wallet. Because…

This happened about two months ago, and I haven't heard from her since.

[FunIndieBloke]

Funbloke,

19!  That is young.  Not the age difference, but the number 19.

Art students do not have money and live in good neighborhoods.  Two alternatives:  either she comes from a wealthy New Russian family who are humoring her request to study art or she is an escort.  If the latter, why you?  Working girls want to have fun too, you are a prospective long-term client, or .... (who knows). 

Whatever, she does not want to live the life of the proletariat.  It is best to forget her.  There are plenty of men in Paris who would not flinch at a nice restaurant and champagne nor a short holiday at a fine hotel in a warm garden spot of the world.

Thanks for the advise!  I have no problem with a nice restaurant & champagne, its just that I want to do it every so often with the right woman!

[Todd]

I agree with the prior advice that has been given.  I would like to ask you if you are looking to get married or to have fun?  A 19 year old is probably just looking to have fun...unless she already has a child.  If you are looking for something more serious, I would recommend looking for women who are recently graduated from university given your age.  Just the fact that they have completed their university education is a point in their favor.  Also, postuniversity is a time of transition and a point where I would think that a good woman would be willing to move to another country.

[DKMM]

So many things said I agree with.  My take:

She is probably a girl from a well off family and is used to this.  I'm about to spend 11 days with a similar type of girl (similar in an economic sense) so I'll let you know how that goes.  I do wonder if she is expecting me to drop serious cash on her.  For me it would be a red flag, because even though I have money the mentality that it must be wasted is repugnant to me.  Oh and a good looking 19 year old in paris is probably spoiled by the local yokels!

I've taken only a couple of RW out and they never acted like this (ages 18-23), they would let me by them decent meals & drinks but nothing that I would think of as suspect.  In fact, I've noticed that taking RW out is rather similar to AW when it comes to the paying part of it.  I was even offered a split check on a 1st date but it was only because she thought that's how we do it in America. 

So if what happened to you happened to me I'd just say well that was an experience and forget about it.  She was definitely not interested in anything serious and you did the right thing by testing her on a trip about it.

[GregfromGa]

My only advice is for you to find a girl that doesnt smoke.

[PeeWee]

I had a couple of thoughts. Does not a woman's self esteem parallel somewhat to the amount of money that is spent on her. From her point of view, like shopping, to spend money on herself or to have money spent on her has much the same psychological effect.

I read here somewhere that RW might prefer RM as boyfriend but Western men as husbands. That because RM have a tendancy to go ballz to the wallz with regards to courting an RW. This woman had had a taste of the RM and his tactics and more than likely expected the same from you.

Peewee

[Kuna]

I had a couple of thoughts. Does not a woman's self esteem parallel somewhat to the amount of money that is spent on her. From her point of view, like shopping, to spend money on herself or to have money spent on her has much the same psychological effect.

I read here somewhere that RW might prefer RM as boyfriend but Western men as husbands. That because RM have a tendancy to go ballz to the wallz with regards to courting an RW. This woman had had a taste of the RM and his tactics and more than likely expected the same from you.

Peewee

Spending money on a girl won't have a lasting effect on her self esteem.

I mentioned it once before in here and it's probably worth mentioning again.  The Dali Lama theorises that the purpose of life is the pursuit Happiness not Pleasure.

Pleasure are those things that give us a short sharp burst of "feel good" while happiness is acquired through developing a sustained feeling of wellness.

After a big high there's usually a big low!

I wouldn't be spending up big on anyone until I know she's "the one".  Of course there's chivalry (paying for dates, holding doors open, being the first to get hit by an out of control car while crossing the street) and customs (like gifts for family, etc) but any girl that can only be "won" by spending up big isn't the type of girl I want a long term relationship with.

The way I figure it, I'm going to go to Ukraine and I'll just be me. Of course respect local customs, etc too but showering girls with gifts will only breed Professional Daters.

If I don't find a girl that likes the real me, then I may as well come home and be unhappy with someone from my hometown.

Just my thoughts,

Kuna

[DKMM]

That's right Kuna, you don't need to flash cash.  Its only going to attract the wrong girls for the wrong reasons.  A good girl can tell if a guy has it going for him and will be able to take care of her without him spending like he won the lottery.  Winners win and losers try to make up for it by blowing their cash.

Though like you, after I land "the one" I'll proceed to slowly spoil her!!   

[Kuna]

Though like you, after I land "the one" I'll proceed to slowly spoil her!!   

In my opinion though, the best girls are the ones that feel spoilt through gestures not gifts.

Flashing the latest Cartier watch might make her feel special for the first week or two but eventually it becomes "just a watch".  Someone who appreciates a thoughtful gesture is MUCH more likely to return the display of love.

Kuna

[Muj]

FIB,

Spending large amounts of money on a woman you met only a few hours ago or less than a week appears foolish to her.  However, woman everywhere hate cheapskates.  You need to find a woman comfortable with your level of spending.  Ask her of her expectations, tell her of your normal spending limits.

[ScottinCrimea]

Okay, admit it everyone that there is a certain rush the first time you visit in flashing cash and spoiling the woman you are with.  It's a head rush nearly impossible to obtain on our incomes with women in the US.  Most AM's do this on their first visit, and who can blame them?  But when it comes time to be serious, we do different.  That is why most AM's do not marry the first FSU woman that they meet.

[Turboguy]

I must be different Scott.   I never got a rush from flashing cash or spoiling a woman I just met.   Most of the AM I have met are the same but I have met a few that were the exception.

I do get a nice feeling if I can help someone I really care about get something they really want but can not afford.  To me I would classify it as a feeling of satisfaction than a rush.

[Muj]

Most guys spend in their normal habits with the exception of a few. One of the exception guys dated an interpreter's friend.  He spent based on the interpreter's advice.

[ScottinCrimea]

I had one AM here who told his 22 year old girlfriend to save her tea bags so they could use them again.  Needless to say that didn't go over really well.  Another from Germany pretended not to hear and walked away when his date mentioned that she wanted a peach from a roadside stand because he didn't want to spend the money.  So there are extremes at both end with most being somewhere in the middle.  I think men with your attitude are the ones who will find a serious woman.

[Captmonk1]

Sounds like a fun date to me! 

Have you tried to contact her in the last two months and not found her or have you BOTH not contacted each other in two months??

If you go back, perhaps the 2nd time flat out tell her you aren't made of money, lets go to some cheaper places and see the town more cheap.

If she is still all over you, you are golden!    If not, oh well, you have great stories of smoothing a cute Russian girl all over Paris. Hello! Nothing wrong with that.