What do you make of this?

[Kuna]

Hmmm... how do I write this?

Guys,

I've got some questions for you.  I'm not particularly concerned at the moment but I'm writing to a girl that is without a doubt, the most unusual I'm currently corresponding with.

I don't know if I'm being overly suspicious after listing to you blokes so much,  or if she is just very different to what I would have imagined.

Let's call her Olga!

The correspondence has been good (and normal... not even the slightest hint of a scam). The telephone discussions have all been good and the phone is always answered even if she answers and says she's "sorry, she is at work, can't talk now, but call back in an hour"

By the way when this happened I didn't call back in an hour and a few hours later I had a call (no number identified) but no one was there.  Then another, then another.  I left it 20 minutes and called her and she said it was her but for some reason the phone wouldn't connect??? She called me!!!  Isn't that just out of the ball park?

If I meet her I'm going to have to go out of my way (by a fair bit) but at this point she's definitely worth the extra travel IF it's all legit.

Let me explain!

She told me she was a journalist and seemed to have travelled a bit.  Her father was a lawyer but has passed away. Mother used to work but doesn't anymore.  She lives with her mother.

Anyway,  being curious by nature I "stretched the capabilities of the web" to do something like this:

 - Firstly I searched for possible variations to her name because the name she always uses is the "affectionate" version of a common name;
- The I used transliteration software on the "possibles" to reconstruct her name in Cyrillic;
- Then I googled all of the alternatives to try to find any info on her;
- Then I used a translation site to read stuff about her.

I've seen:

- Her pics and professional profile on her work website (a TV Station), including program schedules with her name listed at times as a "newsreader", or something like that;
- Articles she's written about travel;
- Articles she's written in trade journals;
- Interviews she's done;
- And even an article she's written on Foreign marriages and Internet dating (very interesting indeed).

The first photos she sent were obviously professional ones and then she started to send holiday pics, but some are professional pics too because one of them appears on the TV Station website... 

We discussed travel and I was surprised at how many places she'd been. I asked if her work required her to travel much and she said "sometimes, but I travel for holidays too."

She wants to meet me in Kiev because she insists on helping me with the family research, and she constantly tells me how the "Ukrainian bureaucracy is so inefficient I'll think they're stupid", or words to that effect.

Is it even possible that she's travelled as much as she has?  (Pics so far have been in Paris, Belgium, A Pacific Island nation, Thailand, on a yacht in a typical "south Pacific" scene) and several from a Middle Eastern country that include titles like "Olga in Asia" and "Olga in Red Sea".

I'd imagine over the next few weeks my curiosity will be satiated (because I've been asking some leading questions) but I can't help but wonder if this girl is a professional dater.  Her travelling has been THAT extensive!

Other leading questions have had responses that are exactly as I would have expected after reading all of her "reports" on-line. (She doesn't know I've seen all of her "stuff" yet though)

What do you reckon?  Is it possible a girl like I've described above would be out there on a dating website looking for a foreign husband?

Am I almost prying into her personal stuff by using the web to find out so much about her?

They sound like a stupid questions when I see them in writing, and no matter the feedback I get I'll be letting things progress until I HAVE to make a decision about a side-trip during my holiday... but,  I'm just very curious.

Should I let things "evolve" or should I come out and just ask the blunt questions?

I'm sure any other comments you have would be very interesting.

Cheers,

Kuna

[BillyB]

Kuna,

The woman is interested in you because she calls you and lets you call her often. It's possible she is a well travelled journalist and still interested in foreign men. The only thing I would worry about is the lifestyle she would expect from her future husband. If you're a stay at home family type of man with mediocre finances and she likes living the high life, you're not going to get along. Ask her what her idea of a happy marriage is like and ask her how she pictures her life as a married woman and what does she expects from her man.

[groovlstk]

By the way when this happened I didn't call back in an hour and a few hours later I had a call (no number identified) but no one was there.  Then another, then another.  I left it 20 minutes and called her and she said it was her but for some reason the phone wouldn't connect??? She called me!!!  Isn't that just out of the ball park?

My fiancee calls me about five times each day. If your girl has a high income and buys international calling cards, it's something you should appreciate. The only question is... how is she earning such a good salary?

- Her pics and professional profile on her work website (a TV Station), including program schedules with her name listed at times as a "newsreader", or something like that;
- Articles she's written about travel;
- Articles she's written in trade journals;
- Interviews she's done;
- And even an article she's written on Foreign marriages and Internet dating (very interesting indeed).

The first photos she sent were obviously professional ones and then she started to send holiday pics, but some are professional pics too because one of them appears on the TV Station website... 

We discussed travel and I was surprised at how many places she'd been. I asked if her work required her to travel much and she said "sometimes, but I travel for holidays too."

It's quite possible she is a serious journalist, it's hard to imagine a prostitutka publishing in the trade journals

Is it even possible that she's travelled as much as she has?  (Pics so far have been in Paris, Belgium, A Pacific Island nation, Thailand, on a yacht in a typical "south Pacific" scene) and several from a Middle Eastern country that include titles like "Olga in Asia" and "Olga in Red Sea".

Again, if she has the means to finance such trips then obtaining a Shengen visa to visit Belgium and Paris would be easy for her. Thailand is relatively easy for an FSU girl to visit, as is the Middle East.

Am I almost prying into her personal stuff by using the web to find out so much about her?

Absolutely not. As Leslie always quotes, "trust yet verify." Until you are sure about her use any means at your disposal. At one point in my search I was stuck on a Ukrainian woman who suddenly started acting strangely. I thought to myself it'd be a breach of trust to pry into her life, that I'd be harming our relationship in the long-term. Rubbish, I was dead wrong, and wasted a year and plenty of cash showing what I thought was proper respect--to someone who was the equivalent of a whore.

[Mir]

If I meet her I'm going to have to go out of my way (by a fair bit) but at this point she's definitely worth the extra travel IF it's all legit.
And then you write:
She wants to meet me in Kiev because she insists on helping me with the family research, and she constantly tells me how the "Ukrainian bureaucracy is so inefficient I'll think they're stupid", or words to that effect.
Des not add up! Kiev is the easiest place you can meet her in Ukraine.

And has she said she is looing for a husband or looking to meet and see what happens?

[Turboguy]

I don't see any signs to indicate she is a scammer and see a lot of signs she is for real.   I have written to a lot of gals who have traveled extensively.  It is not that unusual.   I think my concern would be the same as Billy's.   I might be a little concerned she would be high maintenance.   Some guys like a high maintenance gal others don't.   I don't myself.  My choice has always been someone who likes to travel but who has not done a lot of it and doesn't seem to need a 5 star hotel to be happy.

You can verify her real life to a much greater degree than most guys so that is good.  She does check out.   That job probably pays enough that I would not worry about where her income is coming from.

Yes, it is possible that some of her travels have been financed by men she was interested it.  That may or may not be bad.   I think the big thing is what you want in a woman.

[Kuna]

Kuna,

The woman is interested in you because she calls you and lets you call her often. It's possible she is a well travelled journalist and still interested in foreign men. The only thing I would worry about is the lifestyle she would expect from her future husband. If you're a stay at home family type of man with mediocre finances and she likes living the high life, you're not going to get along. Ask her what her idea of a happy marriage is like and ask her how she pictures her life as a married woman and what does she expects from her man.

Thanks for the comments Billy.

I'd already thought EXACTLY what you wrote about "post-marriage lifestyle"...

I earn a good income (As a single man I earn roughly double the national average household income - though I have no idea how people could live on that) but something I know about money is that it's easier to burn it than earn it!

Her perceptions of her lifestyle post-marriage are logical, if not refreshing.  Actually,  her ideas surprised me but I could really see someone like her being fulfilled and productive if she follows the line she would like.

She also says that her desire is a family life with children (and continue with the normal spiel about house, children and husband coming first)...  We haven't delved too deep into discussions about lifestyle yet but I think it would be sustainable (depending on personality traits etc).

I guess I'm just surprised because she certainly isn't fitting the "stereotype"... though there's probably a lesson in that huh!

Thanks again for your contribution!

Kuna

[Kuna]

The only question is... how is she earning such a good salary?

It's quite possible she is a serious journalist, it's hard to imagine a prostitutka publishing in the trade journals

HAHAHAHA...  Sorry for laughing but she's definitely not a hooker.  I can't imagine an "on-air TV Journalist" getting away with hooking on the side for long!

I've asked myself the same about the salary though.  I've dated an "on-air chick" here once and she didn't earn that much, though she was only the weather girl!   

Absolutely not. As Leslie always quotes, "trust yet verify." Until you are sure about her use any means at your disposal. At one point in my search I was stuck on a Ukrainian woman who suddenly started acting strangely. I thought to myself it'd be a breach of trust to pry into her life, that I'd be harming our relationship in the long-term. Rubbish, I was dead wrong, and wasted a year and plenty of cash showing what I thought was proper respect--to someone who was the equivalent of a whore.

Thanks for the comments here groov...  I feel like I'm checking out her personal diary or something but then again the info is freely available on the Internet.  Everythign I've seen is consistent with what she's told me...  I guess I'll wait and see what happens when I get there!

Cheers,

Kuna

[Kuna]

If I meet her I'm going to have to go out of my way (by a fair bit) but at this point she's definitely worth the extra travel IF it's all legit.
And then you write:
She wants to meet me in Kiev because she insists on helping me with the family research, and she constantly tells me how the "Ukrainian bureaucracy is so inefficient I'll think they're stupid", or words to that effect.
Des not add up! Kiev is the easiest place you can meet her in Ukraine.
And has she said she is looking for a husband or looking to meet and see what happens?

Mir,

Sorry.. I may not have explained...  She knows I'm going to Kiev for family research etc.  She wants to come and help me do that.  One of the early decisions I made was that I wanted to meet all girls in their hometowns,  not away from home.  I didn't want to first meetings to be a "holiday" because I want to see them in their own environment, and if things progress, with her family and friends.

So,  typically I would just be planning to go to meet her at home (outside of Ukraine) but she's offering to meet in Kiev first.  She understands that if we do meet in Kiev I also want to go to her hometown with her and she's happy (if not impressed) with that.

Finally, she says she's looking for the real thing but as I've explained to her, I don't believe anyone can tell if it's real before they meet.  Of course she agrees with this, she's not silly. 

She's confident I'll "like" her, but I told her I'm very fussy about the number of wrinkles that appear on the nose when a girl laughs.  (Started a whole lot of conversations about her nose during laughter).   

Kuna

[Mir]

OK

Hey you have some hot chicks singing the national anthem.

[Kuna]

I think my concern would be the same as Billy's.   I might be a little concerned she would be high maintenance.   Some guys like a high maintenance gal others don't.   I don't myself. 

I think there's different types of "high maintenance"... Someone with goals and that appreciates quality is refreshing, and I like that.  Someone who needs quantity to be happy is a different thing.  I love quality, but I don't need to be out shopping all the time and I hate being wasteful.  A few high quality things in the wardrobe or around the home are nice -   I just don't have the income to have a 100% Versace lifestyle though.

By the way, with all of the girls I've told them I have a "modest" income but I am able to support a small family when I have one.

We've talked about travel and she says she wants to do more.  I've explained to her that because of the distance that Australia is from Europe makes annual "European Vacations" virtually impossible unless you sacrifice other things in life.  She says that's OK, we could see more of Europe when "we visit the family" but she'd be just as interested in seeing Australia and the Pacific.  Hmmm... That does sound high maintenance when I write it down.  

Dunno,  we'll see as things evolve... the purpose of my first question was "Is this real" and "Is this atypical"?

By the way... something I'm VERY wary of is emotional high maintenance... Been there, done that... and it's difficult to not get tired!

Yes, it is possible that some of her travels have been financed by men she was interested it.  That may or may not be bad.   I think the big thing is what you want in a woman.

Very perceptive!

As a matter of fact I know one of the trips was financed by a former suitor.  Through reading her articles, her emails and seeing her photos I worked out that one of the trips was financed by a former partner.  I don't have an issue with that because I've been known to take my former partners on holidays too.  

After I made the connection I asked her an open ended question and while she wasn't specific, she did say that a former "friend" invited her to "X" because he was living there. She told me the reason why it didn't work out and it sounded reasonable, but of course she didn't expose more of her feelings than she had to.

What I DO like is that her answers are consistent with what i would expect after knowing "stuff about her".  What I am/was unsure about is the very different lifestyle she seems to lead.  

(Then again,  2 other girls I'm writing to also have interesting careers.  One is a translator for a German company therefore she spends a bit of time in Germany and goes to Trade Shows in Europe/China etc, and the other is a lawyer who travels at times)...  Maybe the ones I get into prolonged communication with are the ones that will mentally challenge me (Not intellectually challenge me, I'm not that smart!)

Anyway...  the communication continues!

Kuna

[Kuna]

OK
Hey you have some hot chicks singing the national anthem.

The truth is... What's "hot" unless you meet them?

The journo looks "hot", but I already know how she feels about her body from looking at her photos.  It's in the way she's positioned, even in natural pics.  I have no problem with her "weak points" though... 

To be really honest,  the one I'm STILL most interested in is the one that everyone here would probably rate most lowly.  Not that she's less that gorgeous, it's just she is different to what most men appreciate! It's not a conventional beauty I suppose!

Beauty really IS in the eye of the beholder!

Kuna

[Turboguy]

Everyone has their own idea of high maintenance.   I am sure there is someone someplace in this world who would think his wife is high maintenance if she shops at WalMart when there are perfectly good clothes at the Goodwill store.

To me high maintenance is someone who would not only insist on the trip to Australia but would only be satisfied with first class seats, someone who would complain about staying in a 4 star hotel when there is a 5 star hotel in town, or like my gal I met in Moscow complained because I ordered an $ 80.00 bottle of new wine instead of the old wine for $ 400.00 a bottle.

[groovlstk]

Also, if she's achieved the degree of success in her profession that earns her such a good salary, then you should expect that being a stay-at-home wife will not appeal to her. That's OK, depending on your needs and preferences. 

But you should also warn her that working as a journalist in your country won't be so easy (even if she's fluent in English) and that she'll probably have to start at the bottom rung.

[Kuna]

Also, if she's achieved the degree of success in her profession that earns her such a good salary, then you should expect that being a stay-at-home wife will not appeal to her. That's OK, depending on your needs and preferences. 

But you should also warn her that working as a journalist in your country won't be so easy (even if she's fluent in English) and that she'll probably have to start at the bottom rung.

Groov,

Yeah.. I agree.  In fact what I'm seeing is that very few of the girls I'm corresponding with would be happy to be stay at home Mums.

I don't "need" a future wife to work...  I really think it's up to them.  My preference is for someone who puts the family first and is fulfilled through her daily activities so that we're happy when we are together (then I don't have to make her happy, I can just focus on making her "more happy").

If I found a girl who was fulfilled through being mother/wife/home-maker then cool...  If I found one that wanted to work then I'd be just as happy... as long as the work didn't impede on our family life.

I know I'll have to "tame my career" when I have a family, and I'd want a girl that felt the same.

As for future job opportunities for her IF anything were to progress.  She's well aware it would be tough to break into the media here.  Her English isn't perfect now, and I'm not sure how a cattle farmer out west would go looking at a "Russian Princess" reading the 6 o'clock news... Poor old digger would probably have a heart attack!   

Her ideas on this were actually very level headed.  She could leverage her past education (which is significant) and round her capabilities off with more study here to move into one of two different areas.

I think 3 of the current "top 4" would find it hard to step into their old careers here.  Law is vastly different I would imagine, and I don't see much need for a Russian Speaking German translator around the streets of my city.

If one were to choose a girl purely on her "career" you'd proably go for a nanny, hairdresser or hooker.  All those lines of work would be easy to kick off here but I can't say there would be much compatibility with my "Key Selection Criteria".

Cheers!

Kuna

[Gator]

Kuna,

What do you make of this?

I think people are making too much of it.

Congratulations.  You have found four professional, cheerful women who obviously like you and who want to spend time with you.  You will have a great time in Ukraine. 

At this stage you must determine basic compatibility questions such as whether to have children.  However, there is no need to evaluate women based on their career, lifestyle, etc.  What one woman tells you now will likely change.  And she may not be completely open and direct with you now anyway.  So restrain your pre-meeting analysis. 

These women are blind dates that have gone through your screening process.  Your first meeting will reveal more about your true feelings than all of your correspondence and phone calls ever could.

If two people are really into each other and are committed to their relationship, both will change to accommodate the other. 

[Kuna]

Kuna,
I think people are making too much of it.
Congratulations.  You have found four professional, cheerful women who obviously like you and who want to spend time with you.  You will have a great time in Ukraine. 
At this stage you must determine basic compatibility questions such as whether to have children.  However, there is no need to evaluate women based on their career, lifestyle, etc.  What one woman tells you now will likely change.  And she may not be completely open and direct with you now anyway.  So restrain your pre-meeting analysis. 
These women are blind dates that have gone through your screening process.  Your first meeting will reveal more about your true feelings than all of your correspondence and phone calls ever could.
If two people are really into each other and are committed to their relationship, both will change to accommodate the other. 

Thanks Gator,

Good advice again!

I'm surprised at the vast differences of the girls and the level of sophistication of some of them.

Of course there's been less desirable ones.  I haven't mentioned the ones that wait 3 messages and then suggest a holiday as the perfect way to meet for the first time.  One girl even gave me a list of locations with prices on the third email!!!

One told me winter had hit hard and she had discovered she needed buy new boots.  Hmmm... I'm sure you could find boots that cost US$550 in Ukraine but I'm equally sure that everyone's not running around in them.   

It's hard not to analyse the girls too much before getting there when there's so much correspondence going back and forward.  Still, I'm trying to maintain my "this a holiday and I'm going without expectations" approach. 

In a way I wish I waited longer before starting the emails.  I honestly thought it would take around 3 months to develop some decent correspondence and find just one girl who I was interested in enough to go and meet.

Anyway...  I did the official count.  58 days to go!

:-)

Kuna

[Mir]

Well you are going with the right attitude although I have never been sure about multiple women on the same trip but I guess it is possible if you meet them in multiple cities.
Can I ask if you have made all contacts through the same agency (I gather it is Elena’s)?
Take care

[jb]

Kuna,

It's hard not to analyse the girls too much before getting there when there's so much correspondence going back and forward.  Still, I'm trying to maintain my "this a holiday and I'm going without expectations" approach.

In a way I wish I waited longer before starting the emails.  I honestly thought it would take around 3 months to develop some decent correspondence and find just one girl who I was interested in enough to go and meet.

Giving yourself 90 days to sort out a bunch of women is not a lot of time.  Especially since your visit to the Motherland has another agenda, i.e., researching your family tree.  The very fact that you have told these woman that you are coming in 58 days will weed out all but the most determined scammer.  Scammers don't want to ever meet the victim face-to-face.  Those women left standing after that are prolly genuine.  The item you have to discover in the shortest amount of time is compatibility, and you can learn a lot through e-mails and phone calls.  My advice is don't chuck the idea of lots of e-mails and phone calls just yet.

If you can, gear your correspondence towards that aim.  Ask specific question, give critical answers, see how they respond.  All that is possible only if the ladies are writing their own letters, if any woman is using a translator to generate letters, then, IMHO, the waters can get muddied by the personality of the translator.  Be aware of that.

Many men have fallen in love with a translator's letters only to discover the woman who was the object was less than what he thought upon arrival. IMHO, individual one-on-one communication is vital, spending time with a beautiful woman you cannot talk to is merely a fun way to waste time.

[Kuna]

Well you are going with the right attitude although I have never been sure about multiple women on the same trip but I guess it is possible if you meet them in multiple cities.
Can I ask if you have made all contacts through the same agency (I gather it is Elena’s)?
Take care

Mir,

I used both Elena's Models and freepersonals.ru but I have to say the quality of the girls on EM's was much better.  There were some definite scammers that either lost interest very quickly, or felt like they needed to scam very quickly.

Three out of the four are on the Elena's models site.

As for "multiple girls"... I'd fully intended to just visit one, but to be honest the correspondence was so good with several that I thought it would be impossible to just pick one to visit.

I'm taking "The Gator Approach^TM".   

Spend around 3 days with each girl then return to the one I click with best for a week of "getting to know you better".  I'm also intending at this stage on spending a month back in Ukraine in June IF there's a girl that wants me there.   

I think my timing has turned out good too (even though I'll be there in the depth of winter).  The "return to my favourite girl" week will be the week that wraps around Valentines Day.  I take it Valentines is big in FSU?

Cheers,

Kuna

[jb]

I take it Valentines is big in FSU?

Valentine's Day was never celebrated in the SU, it is strictly a Western import that has been enthusiastically embraced by the FSU women in the past 15 years or so.  Anything that gets more flowers and a another present from the boyfriend is always welcomed.   

[Kuna]

Kuna,

Giving yourself 90 days to sort out a bunch of women is not a lot of time.  Especially since your visit to the Motherland has another agenda, i.e., researching your family tree.  The very fact that you have told these woman that you are coming in 58 days will weed out all but the most determined scammer.  Scammers don't want to ever meet the victim face-to-face.  Those women left standing after that are prolly genuine.  The item you have to discover in the shortest amount of time is compatibility, and you can learn a lot through e-mails and phone calls.  My advice is don't chuck the idea of lots of e-mails and phone calls just yet.

If you can, gear your correspondence towards that aim.  Ask specific question, give critical answers, see how they respond.  All that is possible only if the ladies are writing their own letters, if any woman is using a translator to generate letters, then, IMHO, the waters can get muddied by the personality of the translator.  Be aware of that.

Many men have fallen in love with a translator's letters only to discover the woman who was the object was less than what he thought upon arrival. IMHO, individual one-on-one communication is vital, spending time with a beautiful woman you cannot talk to is merely a fun way to waste time.

jb,

I can appreciate your comments about the translators letters.  I decided right at the beginning to only correspond with girls that had "good English" as a minimum and I'm glad I've done so. (there's some really beautiful girls I'll never meet, but looks are only a small part of my search).

My "favourite" at the moment struggles with written correspondence but the phone calls are very cool.  She's taken responsibility to improve her English through lessons in her hometown. (She was telling me on the phone tonight that she had a lesson yesterday and told her teacher that she needs to learn some Australian slang)     Cute!

With regards to timing...  I guess it feels rushed but the days are passing slowly.  My first trip there will only be 3 weeks (excluding Germany and Latvia) but if I find the right girl I'll go back for a month with her in June.  After that... who knows!

Cheers,

Kuna

[Kuna]

Valentine's Day was never celebrated in the SU, it is strictly a Western import that has been enthusiastically embraced by the FSU women in the past 15 years or so.  Anything that gets more flowers and a another present from the boyfriend is always welcomed.   

hahahaha.... why did I guess that?

 

Well flowers and a gift it'll be then (if I find the right girl).

Kuna

[jb]

Flowers are a normal courtship gift in the FSU.  In fact, women expect flowers and candy from b/f's.   To them, if he doesn't cough up the flowers on a fairly regular basis he will be judged as "greedy".  And that's not a good thing. 

Russian women love flowers.  When my wife first arrived here we took some driving tours around, when she saw wild sunflowers growing alongside the roads she wanted to stop and pick the flowers.  When I explained; "honey, those are just weeds", she insisted that in Russia many girls make trips to the country side to pick such weeds.   She didn't understand why American girls would pass up such an opportunity for free flowers.  Needless to say, we stopped and picked "flowers".

[Kuna]

Flowers are a normal courtship gift in the FSU.  In fact, women expect flowers and candy from b/f's.   To them, if he doesn't cough up the flowers on a fairly regular basis he will be judged as "greedy".  And that's not a good thing. 

Russian women love flowers.  When my wife first arrived here we took some driving tours around, when she saw wild sunflowers growing alongside the roads she wanted to stop and pick the flowers.  When I explained; "honey, those are just weeds", she insisted that in Russia many girls make trips to the country side to pick such weeds.   She didn't understand why American girls would pass up such an opportunity for free flowers.  Needless to say, we stopped and picked "flowers".

Cool story jb...  and tell me, do you still stop to pick sunflowers?

 

[jb]

tell me, do you still stop to pick sunflowers?

Texas has a fairly short wild flower season.  During the spring each year however, we are awash with many colors.  If you can imagine fields of blue, red, pink, white, and yellow, then you have a picture of Texas in Springtime.  Starting in March we still, after all this time, make flower trips.  Telling her not to pick the Blue Bonnets was tough, (Blue Bonnets are the State flower and are protected), but she still harvests wild flowers whenever she can.  I believe it's because in Russia the winters are so long and women go for months without seeing anything but dull gray skies and muddy, snowy landscape, the sight of a flower just perks them up so much.

BTW, we also grow a dozen or so of varieties of flowers in the yard, roses being her fav.