A Question of Trust

[Photo Guy]

How well do you know her? That seems to be a question that keeps
on coming up, through many of these threads. Is she really that sweet
thing? Is she too good to be true? Can she be trusted?

It's a Catch-22 situation. If you don't trust her, the relationship
is doomed. If you are afraid of the possible scam, you won't love her.
On the other side of the equation, you must be cautious. You must
protect yourself. You must keep your eyes open for any possible
deceit or ..scam.

There are a lot of gray areas, areas that are not obviously
negative or positive signs. When we're in that zone, I guess we have
to trust our instincts, to see into that hazy gray area. After reading
all of these stories about those warning signs, like 'Please send me
money for...', I'd like to hear about the POSITIVE signs from
the guys who have been successful. What are some of the obvious
positive indications, that the woman is a quality person, someone
you can trust?   -dou

[Elen]

she signs a pre-nut a-la "Tiger's" one

[in_phoenix]

I think this is one of the pit falls to internet dating and especially ones that are seperated by a great distance and language barriers and missed understandings and translations.  The more you read her letters the more your mind wants you to read between the lines.  Everyone wants to be a trusting person but the world has taught us that you still must keep a guard. 

Local internet dating is a lot quicker.  Swap a few notes, meet and then either stay or move on.  This long distance stuff is harder.  You spend a lot of time on it, you get emotionally tied to it and no one wants to call it quits until you met the other person.  After a long period of time your mind fills in the blanks and you start making it what you want to believe.  Does anyone really know when you are being totally deceived?  I read one of the post by I think Bruno, and his went as far as getting into his country then gave him the dump.  I'm sure he trusted her the whole way through.  I'm pretty sure that you can trust someone all you want but you will never know the real motivation behind ones thoughts or acts.

she signs a pre-nut a-la "Tiger's" one

 

"pre-nut" indead!

[BC]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

What are some of the obvious
positive indications, that the woman is a quality person, someoneyou can trust?   -dou

She agrees to meet you in her home town, is there to meet you and does not have any problem showing you off to her friends family etc.  Sure not 100 percent guarantee but the only way to start.

If you have a home phone number you can get someone to do a reverse lookup to verify address and sometimes even a list of persons registered as living in the same house/apartment.  At least this can be an 'unobtrusive' way to stabilize some facts. Much better than the roses for photo antiscam deal.

[Elen]

and does not have any problem showing you off to her friends family etc

 

Actually this is more a matter of trusting YOU males. If she has not a wish to show you to her firends then may be she isn't sure with your fair motivations yet

I don't know how things are in small towns but in large city it would be starange to invite your friend just to "show" them import guy (who doesn't not become yet your "official" future husband. )

[BC]

and does not have any problem showing you off to her friends family etc

 

Actually this is more a matter of trusting YOU males. If she has not a wish to show you to her firends then may be she isn't sure with your fair motivations yet

I don't know how things are in small towns but in large city it would be starange to invite your friend just to "show" them import guy (who doesn't not become yet your "official" future husband. )
[/quote]

True Elen.. It's a two way street that starts only when you can meet face to face.

[Bruno]

[line]
I read one of the post by I think Bruno, and his went as far as getting into his country then gave him the dump.  I'm sure he trusted her the whole way through.  I'm pretty sure that you can trust someone all you want but you will never know the real motivation behind ones thoughts or acts.
[line]


Yep... it is me... i have marry her in Russia, she is coming life in Belgium and we have stay married around 5 year, until the day of divorce...

She have begin change a lot after the first year of marriage... she was very young, go a lot in disco, comeback very late in the night, have several very short relation with other man... i have try to keep our couple for the child...

Only after the divorce, we have honestly speak to each other and i have know the true... she find me a good man, friendly, honest but she was not in love... she have hope that with time, she will fall in love... unfortunaly, it was not the case...

But this change nothing for now... i am again and the process and i hope that this time, ... wait and see...

 

[TheArrow]

"I'm pretty sure that you can trust someone all you want but you will never know the real motivation behind ones thoughts or acts."

Hmmmmmm, [user=258]in_phoenix[/user], can you guarantee that your motivation is true when you goona visit somebody abroad? Remember about "The boomerang rule" - what you give is what you'll receive back.

I am not sure, if you gonna visit somebody in Russia you will not have any back up plans or reserved variants, sorry. Please, do not be too sceptical.

[in_phoenix]

TheArrow,

I mean I know what my true intentions are.  I'm going to find someone.  I'm not going to deceive or hop on the sex train.  There is no way for you to know that, so do you trust me?  I can tell you in the eye, stand on a stack of bibles, is it the truth?  But what I was really refering to was how well do you really know anyone anyways?  You can live with a person for years and not totally know their intentions.  Take my ex-wife for example.  I though I knew her pretty well but then again she had an affair.  If I really knew it was her intention to have an affair or to use me then I wouldn't have married her.  There is no clear way of ever knowing the truth unless you strap on the lie detector when you ask people things, and then there are people that can fool those too.  Some people hide it rather well.  Some people are so good at it they believe it themselves.

I guess you can place as much trust into someone as you feel comfortable in doing.  Maybe there is a fine line between trust and people changing.  You can only trust for the given moment because an intention that is honest today can be changed tomorrow.

The level of trust is going to depend on a person by person basis and your life experiences.  Trust is complicated. 

[deden]

.

[TheArrow]

[user=258]in_phoenix[/user] wrote:

TheArrow,

I mean I know what my true intentions are.  I'm going to find someone.  I'm not going to deceive or hop on the sex train.  There is no way for you to know that, so do you trust me?  I can tell you in the eye, stand on a stack of bibles, is it the truth?  But what I was really refering to was how well do you really know anyone anyways?  You can live with a person for years and not totally know their intentions.  Take my ex-wife for example.  I though I knew her pretty well but then again she had an affair.  If I really knew it was her intention to have an affair or to use me then I wouldn't have married her.  There is no clear way of ever knowing the truth unless you strap on the lie detector when you ask people things, and then there are people that can fool those too.  Some people hide it rather well.  Some people are so good at it they believe it themselves.

I guess you can place as much trust into someone as you feel comfortable in doing.  Maybe there is a fine line between trust and people changing.  You can only trust for the given moment because an intention that is honest today can be changed tomorrow.

The level of trust is going to depend on a person by person basis and your life experiences.  Trust is complicated. 

You are right. But I never compare all men with my ex husband. People are different, so every relationship is different than another.

[Son of Clyde]

If you can't trust her what is left to salvage from the relationship?

I was unsure how I felt about my fiance before I actually met her in person. We never mentioned the "L" word in our emails and the few conversations we had with an interpreter.

I saw that she was looking out for me and protecting me and she behaved in ways a scammer would never behave.

I think she put her profile up "on the fly" and went about her daily life. Her profile was up at two sites but her job and son kept her very busy.

Along came my letter, already translated into Russian with a few professionally made photos. She liked the honesty of my letters because I did not lie to her or embellish my life. When I realized a 54 year old never married man might receive fewer responses I decided in her letter to be totally honest and she liked my openness.

I have yet to see any reason why our relationship would not work unless it is my fault. Some women are honest and some women play AM and marriage agencies for all the money they can get. She has never asked for anything unless it was an extreme emergency.

So I think there are quite a few decent women out there you just have to find them.

[TheArrow]

[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:

I was unsure how I felt about my fiance before I actually met her in person. We never mentioned the "L" word in our emails

You can say "I love you" many times a day but this will mean nothing if you do nothing except saying words of love for her.

But if she knows she has a mental suport from your side, she feels your good treatment but you do not say "I love you" every day - that's great.

[Son of Clyde]

Yes, I have made up for not saying "I love you" by showing her I care for her.

There is no problem expressing my love now that we have met and she was cautious as I was.

The tablets of stone say not to fall in love with a photograph. I have fallen in love with the lady.

[in_phoenix]

and does not have any problem showing you off to her friends family etc

 

Actually this is more a matter of trusting YOU males. If she has not a wish to show you to her firends then may be she isn't sure with your fair motivations yet

I don't know how things are in small towns but in large city it would be starange to invite your friend just to "show" them import guy (who doesn't not become yet your "official" future husband. )
[/quote]
After finding the truth about trust I decided to read back through this thread.

Per old Webster - 1 a : assured reliance on the character, ability, strength, or truth of someone or something b : one in which confidence is placed
2 a : dependence on something future or contingent : [size=-1]HOPE[/size][/url][/b] b : reliance on future payment for property (as merchandise) delivered.

Then looking up assured - 3 : to make sure or certain : [size=-1]CONVINCE[/size][/url][/b] <glancing back to assure himself no one was following>
4 : to inform positively <I assure you that we will do better next time>
5 : to make certain the coming or attainment of : [size=-1]GUARANTEE[/size][/url][/b]

Then I looked up convience - 2 obsolete : [size=-1]DEMONSTRATE[/size][/url], [size=-1]PROVE[/size][/url][/b]

Finally look up demonstrate - 1 : to show clearly
2 a : to prove or make clear by reasoning or evidence


So to [shadow=red]TRUST[/shadow] someone they would have to [glow=red]PROVE or DEMONSTRATE[/glow], what the hell did they prove or demonstrate, that they can write letters, that they can fill your head with things that you want to hear???

What did they prove that they were willing to sit there and write a really sweet letter.

How did they clearly show me that they can be trusted?  Just because they said so?

They proved nothing!  They demonstrated nothing.  There is no trust.

 

I had more here but I didn't want to start world war three!  Draw your own conclusion.

[Elen]

What did they prove that they were willing to sit there and write a really sweet letter.

How did they clearly show me that they can be trusted?  Just because they said so?

They proved nothing!  They demonstrated nothing.  There is no trust.

 

I didn't catch who were "THEY" - boys? or girls? or your statements were about "both" sides?

And why all that was written as the answer to my statement about meeting with her friends?

 

[in_phoenix]

They could mean boths side but I was refering mostly on the RW side.

 

There was actually more to the post where I mentioned something about RW trusting guys but decided to delete it.  Didn't want to go down that path.

[TheArrow]

[user=258]in_phoenix[/user] wrote:

What did they prove that they were willing to sit there and write a really sweet letter.

How did they clearly show me that they can be trusted?  Just because they said so?

They proved nothing!  They demonstrated nothing.  There is no trust.

 

I had more here but I didn't want to start world war three!  Draw your own conclusion.

Listen, first of all be honest with YOURSELF.

[Photo Guy]

[user=258]in_phoenix[/user] wrote:

What did they prove that they were willing to sit there and write a really sweet letter.

How did they clearly show me that they can be trusted?  Just because they said so?
They proved nothing!  They demonstrated nothing.  There is no trust.
I had more here but I didn't want to start world war three!  Draw your own conclusion.

You can look at a really great letter from her. You can conclude that
it was all a bunch of lies. Or, you can decide it was all beautiful and
sincere. And, of course there are gray areas. As you collect many
letters, a picture begins to form. You have to reach conclusions
based on many letters. You have to remember that she's just a
person with frailties and imperfections, like yourself. If you are
expecting a scam, that may actually increase your chances of
being scammed, but I guess I'm going off into the metaphysical realm. Here's the thing: You must trust people to allow love to happen. You have to balance that with a cautious awareness of blatant warning signals, but if you are overly cautious, nothing good will happen.

It amazes me to see the extremely different reactions to Larisa's
emails here. It shows us how different our attitudes are, in regard to the same events. I'm staying positive about Larisa. I don't have that
much to lose. If it doesn't work out, I'll still have fun in Kiev. Maybe next time I will go to Moscow and have a friendly chat about politics with the local town-folk there. Maybe meet a woman or two.  Doug
By the way, if you could see the photos she sent me, standing
next to her smiling mom, and the cute notes she wrote on the back,
you might understand why I see her as being benevolent.